User Panel
Posted: 8/25/2004 3:04:36 PM EDT
Through various topics and replies, I see a lot of mixed emotions about HK Firearms.
Now, disregard their questionable customer service and choose only based on the products. MP5's G36's USP's UMP's Mk23's HK9X's G3's PSG-1's P7's P2000's XM8's Also, after you vote, which one do you like the best? Or for those of you that don't like em, why? Feedback guys, give me some feedback! |
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They are a little elitist for my taste.
Overly priced for what it is. They don't care about us civies. I prefer made in USA by an American company if possible. |
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Some of the best made firearms on the planet, bar none....between spec ops, police forces, and various militaries around the world, id label HK as the BMW of firearms...top of the line performance, looks (IMHO), and reliability, if not a little more expensive than they should be...
HK USP .45 fullsize owner here |
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HK: "In a World of Compromise, Some Companies just have Better Marketing Departments."
HK's are good, but they ain't NEARLY the uber-technical superweapons that HK wants you to believe they are. In fact, they ain't no better than any other reputable manufacturer, many of whom give you more gun and less hype for your money. I owned a USP, which I thought was the end all be all of pistols until I shot a Kimber. Then I realized what my USP was: A polymer framed boat anchor, even though it was a "compact" (my ass) model, that had a marketing department from Hell behind it. If you like schlocky, shitty triggers that you can't do anything about, uncomfortable, blocky and totally unconcealable ergonomics and marginal accuracy for alot of money, the USP is the way to go. I got lucky and traded mine even for a Kimber CDP custom, and haven't missed it a day. Oh, and to boot, the HK customer "service" blows goats. Guess you could say I'm not a fan. SG |
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You take a 19 lb solid bar of weapons-grade hardened steel and whittle out the slide for a USP, discarding 18 and a half pounds as scrap. THEN cold-hammer forge a polygon rifled barrel (no cheating like Glock does) and we'll see if you can beat Hks' price. |
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Thats cool!!! Shame it don't work any better than a Glock |
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Pretty much. I'll only discuss those I've actually fired. HK91--shitty sights, recoil is that weird circular motion, stock socks me in the eye when I shoot it, tears up brass, charging handle is FUBAR, ergos suck, roller action sucks (dent the receiver and she no fire), EXPENSIVE and rare PSG-1--overpriced, foo-foo rifle--would rather have an SR-25 MP5--THE most controllable 9mm FA I've ever shot. Very handy, ergos are ok, good trigger and super easy to modulate for 3-5 round bursts, roller action sucks, EXPENSIVE and rare USP--good God, don't get me started--that grip frame is an abortion, trigger sucks--plus side is that it's the only polymer .45 that I'd own--but I still wouldn't own one They are overpriced and "elite"--they are fine firearms but they have a built-up cache that irks me. Maybe it's just the "HK is God" guys that irk me. Maybe it's the Teutonic superiority complex that irks me. Heckler and Kotch |
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HK is in the "Hell yeah, if I wasn't poor" category.
It just isn't realistic for most people to want them... but even you haters would have a closet full if you were rich - BUCC_Guy |
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One of the best combat sights out there. Best recoiling .308 on FA of the big 3, don't know what you are doing wrong to get hit in the eye, charging handle is very practical if you understand it, roller lock is what makes them better than most others and when they were being imported they cost about 1/3 more than a AR15.
I like the SR25, have you really owned a PSG1 though?
Again roller lock is what makes it superior. No more rare or expensive than a Colt 9mm SMG.
Best marriage of Browning and Walther features yet.
HK isn't God. As someone said they are just quality rifles like other premium firearms. In some areas they are the best (9mm subgun) but in some areas they aren't (HK93 vs AR15). And I think the SIG 550 is better than both. |
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Have shot:
USP45 Full size (mine) USC 45ACP (Someone Else's) MP5A2 (range rental) Love all three. I consider them to be a very good quality mnaufacturer. No more, no less. Equal to other respected manufacturers such as Sig, Kimber, and Colt (in the rifle side, I have no experience with their pistols, so I will leave that to others to comment on.) I found the ergonomics on all three to be superb, but I am a tall lanky guy. |
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Never OWNED a PSG-1. I said I had SHOT one. Still not impressed considering the price. As for the HK91--it recoils more than my FAL for sure. And it's not just me that thinks that the recoil has a weird circular motion that hinders follow-up shots--I've heard that complaint many times. As for the sights--they seem robust, but I like AR sights better. Roller lock--don't like it. I don't know the "trick" for unlocking it when it locks up and a dent in the stamped steel receiver will stop it cold. Dent a FAL top cover and you just take it off and keep going. As for rarity--they are more rare than pre-ban AR's and quite a bit more expensive as well and they are not upgradeable/modular like the AR platform. As .308's go, I prefer the FAL. USP--I like the ability to change out the triggers to different firing modes, but the piece itself is too bulky, the grip is uncomfortable, and it's too expensive. But hey, I'm a 1911 man. They are "nice" guns, but not worth my time and money. |
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HK Longarms: Interesting but no major performance advantages over their competitors. Would own a "closetfull" if had major cash to blow.
HK Subguns: Some of the best in the world. Should own a "closetfull" even though I don't have major cash to blow. HK USP: Good, but not better than the competition. I would buy a $500 Glock before a $700 USP. HK P7: ??? |
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Well, opinions vary and experiences differ. Fair enough too. As to the price gripes, hey, no one forces anyone to buy. That is like griping about the price of Ferraris. If you can't afford one fair enough but why disparage them for the price?
My experiences are limited to the four HK products I have owned. HK TACTICAL HK Tactical .45 with suppressor. This is a LARGE .45 pistol and the suppressor doesn't make it any smaller. I doubt anyone carries this as a concealed carry weapon. Pros - it has been ultimately reliable out of the box, more accurate than I can shoot, easy to maintain and rugged. It has also be 100% with the suppressor. Cons - trigger is spongy and it is LARGE. Also few after market goodies like holsters and stuff. PS - while HK didn't make the suppressor I would not do it again. It is a wet can which requires grease injection. Smoky and a pain in the a$$. HK USP40C This is a compact version of the .40 S&W. It's OK. No real pros or cons. Reliable and does what it should. Also spongy trigger and reliable etc. SP89 Thing of beauty. Also thing of no use. Truly this thing has no function in life other than being converted into an MP5K. It is too big to shoot as a pistol, and no way to shoot as a rifle. Useless, but really well made. hard to judge HK since I am sure this was made specifically to be converted. I sold this last year. MP5 This is my favorite weapon. There is nothing that comes close to this in the subgun world. I have an M16 9mm, and M11, and have shot other subguns. Nothing is CLOSE. Based on this weapon alone I love HK. I also have a suppressor for it and it is GREAT. Pros - best subgun bar none. Cons - people think parts for these are made of gold. But what the heck? I love this gun |
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Really, a 1911 guy.....no shit ?? I never would have guessed. I had a HK91 and other than the weight, I really liked it. I have two USPs, a fullsize and a compact, both in .45 and I love these pistols ! Never a problem of any kind. Accurate, tough and totally reliable. |
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HK's are overpriced pieces of crap.
Now a Toad Specul Wepun is da bomb! |
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How much trigger time do you have though? Would you accept the conclusions of a person who had shot a SR25 once and didn't like it? Also are you talking about the artificial preban collector price of a PSG1 or the actual price LE departments pay for them?
My HK recoils far less than any of my FALs. Also the G3 is controllable on slect fire a FAL is not.
I like A2 sights just fine. However the HK sight is more versatile. You can go from a wide open sight to a tight peep with single rotation. The open sight is less obstrcuted than the A2 sight and the peep offers a selection of 3 appatures of varying tightness.
Ok now I gotta wonder about your familiarity with HKs. A roller lock bolt means no gas system to foul. But the rollers CANNOT possibly lock inside the receiver, only in the chamber. The chamber unlocks the rollers on firing. The roller locks have to do with the bolt. Onto the separate issue of a dented receiver. With enough damage you can fuck over any stamped receiver gun. I can fuck over a FAL top cover so bad that you would not be able to remove it without tools. Also understand that real HKs are built slightly better than your average knockoff. Dented receivers aren't really a common issue.
Yup, but that is due to legislation. A SIG550 was hardly imported at all. Means it's costly and rare, but not a bad gun. Just hard to get. Also in some ways HKs are quite modular. Take a look at the B&T handguards these days. Changing from A2 to A3 or a side folder is as easy as one pin and going from standard SEF to burst or semi only trigger configs is far easier than with an AR15. You can put a RAS hanguard on a AR15 but you can put one on a HK easier.
USPs cost no more than good Kimbers. In fact all quality handguns are more or less the same price. I do just fine with the grup, that is a "fit" thing. For example Glocks don't fit me, I find the angle too extreme. Doesn't mean they don't work for others. And on a final note, "cost" is my LAST consideration. I don't buy brand X bullet proof vests because they are on sale and I have a coupon. I buy good guns. Good doesn't mean expensive either. I have a shitload of Kalashnikovs. They are good, especially for what they are intended for. I also buy AR15s, FALs and HKs because they are all good. I rate a gun based upon perfomance in terms of reliability and accuracy. If I judge it "good" based upon that criteria and I can afford it and it is available now, I will buy it. I've never regretted buying a "good gun" no matter what I paid. Now there have been a couple I bought because it seemed like a "good price" and I later sold them. |
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The only one I have any experience with is the P7 (my dads ready gun), the first one in 9mm. Nice and compact, very accurate and reliable. Takes ALOT to get used to it, but it is unique and very safe.
I have handled most of there other guns (MP5, 91, 93, USP) don't like them much. Except for the MP5 which I will never own . That being said if I had the money and space to assemble the SA versions of every military rifle of the 20th century the HK91 would be the last. |
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At various points in my service (back in the ol' country) I was issued a G3.
I really like the design, and personally think it is the better designed of the battle rifles (compared to the FAL and the M14), since I'm partial to the recoil system, and don't like the added complexity of gas - but that's just a personal preference. I found the sights to be good (for a military arm) but despite my liking of the rifle, it wasn't overly practical for me, since the ergonomics didn't fit that well for me. I woudl occasionally get whanged on the cheekbone when shooting it. Plus - it is pretty uncontrollable on full-auto (but the G3 is the ONLY one I've fired on full-auto - as compared to the FAL and M-14, and so it may be more of a .308 issue than a G3 issue). Just my thoughts - worth what you paid for it |
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You are correct. Thats what came with it so I'll leave it like that for the time being. Hell, I don't even know what the correct forearm looks like. |
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I have one H&K and I love it.
I want more H&Ks but I Hate shelling out that much $$ |
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I got one on my 53. Goes back about an extra inch and bumps a little more flush than a MP5 handguard. Not a big deal really, just yanking your chain. I'm amazed at the A3 stock too, I gotta have a A2 on a 51. I got a buddy with a 51B with a A3 and that setup is just insane. Looks cool but insane. And if you want a really nice handguard check these out. |
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Own a USP.40, and plan to own others as money and collecting allow. Now, if I could just get Steyr off of his collection some...
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Need more...gray room in Virginia is still way ahead of me.... |
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I had a USP 45, couldn't hit shit with it. HK's sre great guns but they just cost too damn much.
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You get what you pay for! I have a USPC 9mm. Has 8k rds through it. Not a slip up anywhere. IMHO, the easiest pistols to clean and maintain. 8k and mine still looks 95%-98%. Only little wear on top of barrel.
HK has a good track record too, okay...the G11...I know, but other than that everything has done remarkably well. I guess this poll would make more sense if asked to the Mil/LE. |
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I have a USP 45C , its well built and accurate . I like it enough that I now have to have its
big Brother an M-23 ..... As soon as I can find one under $2K that is |
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[dog steyr mode]hmmm...i think the 91/g3 sights suck. i can't hit the wide side of a barn from the inside with that dumb v-notch. i have to use the 200m setting to hit anything smaller than a bull moose. and folks complain about the ak! heheh!
cocking from prone is impossible unless you are a cro-magnon man. welded together trunnions? wtf? not even kalashnikov stooped to junk yard assembly techniques. ever clean a heckler and jeckler after a few thousand rounds? although easier than an ar, it is just as fithy. blow 'back', indeed. setting headspace with feeler gages? hoo boy! fluted chambers just so the thing will extract...now there's a stroke of genius not seen since 1953 beetle was upgraded to 25 hp. the 41 and its' welded on forward assist...yes, real nice job of engineering THAT fugly thing onto a rifle. no! would never think it was an afterthought...no way! the 51 is a freakin' riot. most impressive full auto should-fired on the bus, imo. again, completely worthless for doing anything other than making a fireball with...but that's my idea of FUN!!! no man should go thru life without shooting the 51 at least once. vollmer and fleming outdid heckler on that one! the 21...a maintainance queen. very similar to the m60...needy.[/dog steyr mode] sa, just funnin' with ya! you should have seen the rack of h&j at minifest...a veritable 'one of everything' display, including b&t cans for damn near everything. |
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Stick poking aside.... HKs get dirty inside because the fluts tend to exhaust and clean the bore with every shot. Rather have a dirty receiver and a clean bore. I can charge a 91 or 21 from prone just fine. I can also do it with my firing hand on the on the grip. 51 is a party, it's the 51B that justs makes no kinda sense. My 21 is just fine on original parts after all these years. I think a FN MAG is probably a lot better but I like the 21 just fine. Beats the hell out of that stupid long barreled AKM the commies call a SAW but can't change the barrel on and my 21 never caught on fire. |
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Auggie,
Which buffer do you have on your HK91? I have the heavy buffer which really helps mine with the recoil. I *think* it's the one that comes in the SG1 stock, but it's been a while since I've studied HK parts and I know I've forgotten quite a bit. |
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You can pretty much find pictures of any firearm that has been damaged. Just posting one doesn't mean shit. For all we know, someone hit it with a sledge hammer. Please give us the source and background info. |
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You can find pics like that on every gun in existance. I love the pic of the AR exploding out the side. Rarely seen in HKs though.
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That's just an H&K doing it's glock imitation |
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You'll have to ask Aim4myHead.
He originally posted that pic in this thread: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=5&f=13&t=10152 |
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That popped HK was an overly loaded cartridge: See: Badly reloaded by some asshat...I think it was a double or triple load...
Notice how it just blew down the length of the grip, designed to do so for shooter safety... |
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Too bad for you Lumpy...you are missing out. I am a BIG HK fan. I have two HK91s,one 93 and a 94 and a .22cal HK270. For handguns I have a USP Tactical, P9S and a P7M8. And will own a MP5 someday. HKs do cost a bit of money, but they are worth the price. I have never had a jam or FTF with a HK and I never will. If there was one HK that is my favorite it would be the HK91. |
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The G-3 & descendants were a 'unique' design, and IMHO superior to the old baseline piston system... The USP series gives you the very nice feature of single-action-only operation if desired, a/o the stupid decocker safety on most Euro guns... Cocked & Locked carry -> +1 for the USP... However, their recent rifles are just the old-fashioned, 1940's era gas-piston system in a 'kewl' plastic package... Poor competition for the AR (the last practical/innovative design to come up.)... |
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only h&K I want other then there machine guns is the squezze cocker.
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The P7 series are sweet guns! Get one, you won't regret it. |
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I FINALLY got a HK91A3 this year and abso-friggin-lutly love it!
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