not a one.

Got some.

Quoted: Pretty much.   I'll only discuss those I've actually fired.   HK91--shitty sights, recoil is that weird circular motion, stock socks me in the eye when I shoot it, charging handle is FUBAR, ergos suck, roller action sucks, EXPENSIVE and rare

One of the best combat sights out there. Best recoiling .308 on FA of the big 3, don't know what you are doing wrong to get hit in the eye, charging handle is very practical if you understand it, roller lock is what makes them better than most others and when they were being imported they cost about 1/3 more than  a AR15.

Quoted: PSG-1--overpriced, foo-foo rifle--would rather have an SR-25

I like the SR25, have you really owned a PSG1 though?

Quoted: MP5--THE most controllable 9mm FA I've ever shot.  Very handy, ergos are ok, good trigger and super easy to modulate for 3-5 round bursts, roller action sucks, EXPENSIVE and rare

Again roller lock is what makes it superior. No more rare or expensive than a Colt 9mm SMG.

Quoted: USP--good God, don't get me started--that grip frame is an abortion, trigger sucks--plus side is that it's the only polymer .45 that I'd own--but I still wouldn't own one

Best marriage of Browning and Walther features yet.

Quoted: They are overpriced and "elite"--they are fine firearms but they have a built-up cache that irks me.  Maybe it's just the "HK is God" guys that irk me.  Maybe it's the Teutonic superiority complex that irks me.   Heckler and Kotch

HK isn't God. As someone said they are just quality rifles like other premium firearms. In some areas they are the best (9mm subgun) but in some areas they aren't (HK93 vs AR15). And I think the SIG 550 is better than both.

Quoted: Never OWNED a PSG-1.  I said I had SHOT one.  Still not impressed considering the price.

How much trigger time do you have though? Would you accept the conclusions of a person who had shot a SR25 once and didn't like it? Also are you talking about the artificial preban collector price of a PSG1 or the actual price LE departments pay for them?

Quoted: As for the HK91--it recoils more than my FAL for sure.  And it's not just me that thinks that the recoil has a weird circular motion that hinders follow-up shots--I've heard that complaint many times.

My HK recoils far less than any of my FALs. Also the G3 is controllable on slect fire a FAL is not.

Quoted: As for the sights--they seem robust, but I like AR sights better.

I like A2 sights just fine. However the HK sight is more versatile. You can go from a wide open sight to a tight peep with single rotation. The open sight is less obstrcuted than the A2 sight and the peep offers a selection of 3 appatures of varying tightness.

Quoted: Roller lock--don't like it.  I don't know the "trick" for unlocking it when it locks up and a dent in the stamped steel receiver will stop it cold.  Dent a FAL top cover and you just take it off and keep going.

Ok now I gotta wonder about your familiarity with HKs. A roller lock bolt means no gas system to foul. But the rollers CANNOT possibly lock inside the receiver, only in the chamber. The chamber unlocks the rollers on firing. The roller locks have to do with the bolt.

Onto the separate issue of a dented receiver. With enough damage you can fuck over any stamped receiver gun. I can fuck over a FAL top cover so bad that you would not be able to remove it without tools. Also understand that real HKs are built slightly better than your average knockoff. Dented receivers aren't really a common issue.

Quoted: As for rarity--they are more rare than pre-ban AR's and quite a bit more expensive as well and they are not upgradeable/modular like the AR platform.  As .308's go, I prefer the FAL.

Yup, but that is due to legislation. A SIG550 was hardly imported at all. Means it's costly and rare, but not a bad gun. Just hard to get. Also in some ways HKs are quite modular. Take a look at the B&T handguards these days. Changing from A2 to A3 or a side folder is as easy as one pin and going from standard SEF to burst or semi only trigger configs is far easier than with an AR15. You can put a RAS hanguard on a AR15 but you can put one on a HK easier.

Quoted: USP--I like the ability to change out the triggers to different firing modes, but the piece itself is too bulky, the grip is uncomfortable, and it's too expensive.  But hey, I'm a 1911 man.   They are "nice" guns, but not worth my time and money.

USPs cost no more than good Kimbers. In fact all quality handguns are more or less the same price.

I do just fine with the grup, that is a "fit" thing. For example Glocks don't fit me, I find the angle too extreme. Doesn't mean they don't work for others.

And on a final note, "cost" is my LAST consideration.

I don't buy brand X bullet proof vests because they are on sale and I have a coupon.

I buy good guns. Good doesn't mean expensive either. I have a shitload of Kalashnikovs. They are good, especially for what they are intended for. I also buy AR15s, FALs and HKs because they are all good. I rate a gun based upon perfomance in terms of reliability and accuracy. If I judge it "good" based upon that criteria and I can afford it and it is available now, I will buy it.

I've never regretted buying a "good gun" no matter what I paid.

Now there have been a couple I bought because it seemed like a "good price" and I later sold them.

Quoted: Affirmative members.cox.net/rwhitehill/hk51.jpg

Sweet 51.

But put the correct forearm on it.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Affirmative members.cox.net/rwhitehill/hk51.jpg Sweet 51. But put the correct forearm on it. You are correct.  Thats what came with it so I'll leave it like that for the time being.  Hell, I don't even know what the correct forearm looks like.

I got one on my 53. Goes back about an extra inch and bumps a little more flush than a MP5 handguard. Not a big deal really, just yanking your chain.

I'm amazed at the A3 stock too, I gotta have a A2 on a 51.

I got a buddy with a 51B with a A3 and that setup is just insane. Looks cool but insane.

And if you want a really nice handguard check these out.

Quoted: Own a USP.40, and plan to own others as money and collecting allow. Now, if I could just get Steyr off of his collection some...

Need more...gray room in Virginia is still way ahead of me....

[dog steyr mode]hmmm...i think the 91/g3 sights suck. i can't hit the wide side of a barn from the inside with that dumb v-notch. i have to use the 200m setting to hit anything smaller than a bull moose. and folks complain about the ak! heheh!

cocking from prone is impossible unless you are a cro-magnon man.

welded together trunnions? wtf? not even kalashnikov stooped to junk yard assembly techniques.

ever clean a heckler and jeckler after a few thousand rounds? although easier than an ar, it is just as fithy. blow 'back', indeed.

setting headspace with feeler gages? hoo boy!

fluted chambers just so the thing will extract...now there's a stroke of genius not seen since 1953 beetle was upgraded to 25 hp.

the 41 and its' welded on forward assist...yes, real nice job of engineering THAT fugly thing onto a rifle. no! would never think it was an afterthought...no way!


the 51 is a freakin' riot. most impressive full auto should-fired on the bus, imo. again, completely worthless for doing anything other than making a fireball with...but that's my idea of FUN!!! no man should go thru life without shooting the 51 at least once. vollmer and fleming outdid heckler on that one!

the 21...a maintainance queen. very similar to the m60...needy.[/dog steyr mode]

sa, just funnin' with ya! you should have seen the rack of h&j at minifest...a veritable 'one of everything' display, including b&t cans for damn near everything.

Quoted: [dog steyr mode]hmmm...i think the 91/g3 sights suck. i can't hit the wide side of a barn from the inside with that dumb v-notch. i have to use the 200m setting to hit anything smaller than a bull moose. and folks complain about the ak! heheh! cocking from prone is impossible unless you are a cro-magnon man. welded together trunnions? wtf? not even kalashnikov stooped to junk yard assembly techniques. ever clean a heckler and jeckler after a few thousand rounds? although easier than an ar, it is just as fithy. blow 'back', indeed. setting headspace with feeler gages? hoo boy! fluted chambers just so the thing will extract...now there's a stroke of genius not seen since 1953 beetle was upgraded to 25 hp. the 41 and its' welded on forward assist...yes, real nice job of engineering THAT fugly thing onto a rifle. no! would never think it was an afterthought...no way! the 51 is a freakin' riot. most impressive full auto should-fired on the bus, imo. again, completely worthless for doing anything other than making a fireball with...but that's my idea of FUN!!! no man should go thru life without shooting the 51 at least once. vollmer and fleming outdid heckler on that one! the 21...a maintainance queen. very similar to the m60...needy.[/dog steyr mode] sa, just funnin' with ya! you should have seen the rack of h&j at minifest...a veritable 'one of everything' display, including b&t cans for damn near everything.

Stick poking aside....

HKs get dirty inside because the fluts tend to exhaust and clean the bore with every shot. Rather have a dirty receiver and a clean bore.

I can charge a 91 or 21 from prone just fine. I can also do it with my firing hand on the on the grip.

51 is a party, it's the 51B that justs makes no kinda sense.

My 21 is just fine on original parts after all these years. I think a FN MAG is probably a lot better but I like the 21 just fine. Beats the hell out of that stupid long barreled AKM the commies call a SAW but can't change the barrel on and my 21 never caught on fire.

Auggie,

Which buffer do you have on your HK91?

I have the heavy buffer which really helps mine with the recoil.  I *think* it's the one that comes in the SG1 stock, but it's been a while since I've studied HK parts and I know I've forgotten quite a bit.

Quoted: Auggie, Which buffer do you have on your HK91? I have the heavy buffer which really helps mine with the recoil.  I *think* it's the one that comes in the SG1 stock, but it's been a while since I've studied HK parts and I know I've forgotten quite a bit.

Standard stock buffer. The heavy buffer would tame the recoil even more.

But as we know all HK .308s are completely uncontrollable with massive recoil.

And Eugene likes them.



One legend meets another:  The late Eugene Stoner, designer of several highly successful American small arms systems, including the M16 series, meets the G11 at Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD.