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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:23:20 AM EDT
[#1]
IBTL.
(Sorry O_P) I kinda, sorta agree with you, to a point. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:24:31 AM EDT
[#2]
if you dont like it, dont read it
people have a right express themselves within the rules set up by the owners of this site. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:24:35 AM EDT
[#3]
Who's Mr Ed?
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:27:11 AM EDT
[#4]
I agree to a point but, open discussion should be allowed. Once a gag order is in place, it is far easier for the other team to win. YMMV. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:27:48 AM EDT
[#5]
If we can't say white guys lose at track & field, we most certainly shouldn't be able to cop-bash.
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:29:50 AM EDT
[#6]
Yeah, I'm a political consultant and have worked for a couple of very honorable public servants... so I want a rule stating no bashing politicians unless they are bad, and I want to be the arbiter of who is and isn't bad.
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:30:05 AM EDT
[#7]
cop bashing all cops aint right.
I am with you ole' pain-in-the-ass, sorry, ole' painless, They do lay it out there every day and for a lot less than I would do it for. You never know- that cop you bash today, may be the very one who saves your ass tomorrow |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:30:20 AM EDT
[#8]
As an LEO I agree with your post to a point, BUT I see some of the bashing as an opportunity to present the other side. I got a little pissed over the LEO's-shouldn't-have-formal funerals nonsense, but these guys have a right to their opinion just like we do. After all, its just the internet. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:30:38 AM EDT
[#9]
I disagree totally, as you knew that I would, Old_Painless!
These are political matters, not personal ones! They were discussed at the Founding of this Nation and have continued to be discussed in every generation thereafter! Again, as I requested so often in the subject threads, show me the 'bashing'! If not wishing to have a 'standing army' composed of militarily-uniformed, militarily-trained, and militarily-equipped LEOs in this nation is an off-limits subject, then hasn't the pooch already been screwed? We have a 'standing army' every bit as powerful and threatening as any imagined by the Founding Fathers in this nation. So, we should silence the voices that point this tragedy out to the masses? Please, Old_Painless, you know not what you ask! Eric The(MereCivilianInThisArgument)Hun 
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:32:38 AM EDT
[#10]
Post from ryann -
There! I fixed your quote to make it accurate, ryann! No thanks needed!  Eric The(HappyToHelpOut)Hun
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:35:35 AM EDT
[#11]
Sheeeeeet, that's simple....ALL politicos, unless they have picked up their fair share of the bar tab for you personally, are scum. 
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:36:14 AM EDT
[#12]
I think most of the generalized cop-bashing is hyperbole or overenthusiastic argument. The really nasty stuff comes from a couple of sour, bitter, obsessed goofballs who are ignored by most of us. The worst ones to me are the posts that start "Cops are . . ." or "All cops. . . ."
The "two categories of citizen" arguments raise legitimate questions, though they invite mutual escalation. For some reason, the insinuation infuriates LEOs, and the perceived fact infuriates the people who are hooked on that issue. The one problem that I see is that the cop-bashers' arguments frequently become so venomous that the cops leave the thread (understandably) and engaging discussions die. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:36:54 AM EDT
[#13]
I have a lot of respect for the profession, but I don't agree with OP this time (sorry).
Hey, I have friends and family that are lawyers, but lawyers get beat to hell on ARFcom and no one complains. Same goes with doctors and many other professions. Like it or not, no matter what you do, someone here is not going to like your profession. A nun could post here, and some jackass would come along and flame her for calling in life. Not to flame, but it seems like SOME of the police officers have a thin skin around here. YES, the constant bashing gets old fast. However, if they just ignored the threads instead of jumping into the flame fest, this type of stuff would die off much faster. Last thing we need at ARFcom are more protected classes of people... |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:38:39 AM EDT
[#14]
Well while you're at it, why not just add the rule that you are not allowed to start a thread asking another member a question.
Thats considered "calling out" a member and even though nothing is in the COC, its a no no. Or at least to some mods........maybe......well really not sure....when in doubt, just lock it !! 
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:40:02 AM EDT
[#15]
No sir, that would make them ALL bad... lol, good men, but not men of means... they actually treated their senate and assembly seats as their full time job and put 80 plus hours in... unlike most of the lawyers who did it for the power trip and could have laughed away their legislative salary. Lobbyists on the other hand never let you pay for a drink as long as the tab is under $75. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:40:50 AM EDT
[#16]
Sometimes, though, its fun to argue !!! |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:42:35 AM EDT
[#17]
A horse of course (but to be acctual mr.Ed was a zebra) |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:44:18 AM EDT
[#18]
OP, I'm afarid I must disagree. I like to have these guys out in front where they can be seen for what the are. Yes, it's pretty disgusting, but consider this.
Far better the open antagonist than some guy who is all smiles and standing behind you with a knife up his sleeve.  I stand on record here, I think the posting of a thread just so Eric can score some obscure libertarian viewpoint (that no one could give a rat's ass about) over a good man's violent death smacks of ego tripping, elitism, and just plain poor manners. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:53:33 AM EDT
[#19]
CORRECT! |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:56:24 AM EDT
[#20]
Hoily shit... I agree with EricTheHun on something.
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:59:08 AM EDT
[#21]
Thanks, Ben. If that doesn't convince Eric of the error of his ways, I don't know what will. 
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:59:35 AM EDT
[#22]
More than you'll ever know. Eric The(Cryptic)Hun
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Posted: 8/24/2004 11:59:55 AM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:05:27 PM EDT
[#24]
Then, Old_Painless, you think that the militarization of LEOs must be a good thing for the Republic?
When the New Age Pharisees and the Sadducees agree that you are the enemy of the Brave New American State, please don't cry out 'Lord, Lord' when the Temple Guards come out to seize you! For those who could have listened and would have responded to your cries have long since vanished....and at the very hands of those same New Centurions! I hope that you recognize the allusions. Or the illusions. Whichever. Eric The(RememberingTheVeryAncientPastAsIfItWereYesterday)Hun
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:08:34 PM EDT
[#25]
i am sorry but i must disagree with this also.
We have PLENTY of rules to take care of the idiots that cross the lines of decency on ANY subject. The reason LEO's typically get bashed is because when they screwup peoples lives are destroyed. ALL of us know there are good cops. As much as i would like to think it is the majority i have not personally seen that in MOST of the leos i know and have worked with. Yes i do have several i consider freinds and they are the good guys. Even they will tell you it's tough trying to stay level headed and honest. There should be NO protected class here at ar15.com. To include the military. If they screw up they should be DISCUSSED as well. When the kill em all crowd starts mouthing off that is when our moderators should step in and correct the situation. As mods and staff we can't read every thread. To be honest there are some threads i just plain avoid until it looks like it has gone awhile. We get tired of reading some of this stuff as well. imagine not being able to ignore anything here. Some days it gets down right depressing. Adding rules to the COC to cover every detail will get us what several of the mods just fought a war over not long ago. An oppresive and VERY subjective COC that was used as an excuse to go after some members while others were left alone. I am sure what we have now is not perfect. And given it has been written by Men it never will be. But IMHO it's the best we have had to date. Keep it simple and stright forward and moderation stays as fair and easy as possible. jmho mike |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:09:02 PM EDT
[#26]
Does anyone still believe in freedom of speech?
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:09:46 PM EDT
[#27]
I assume you mean ERICtheHUn? Well, Johninbunnyville, you can say alot of things about ERIC. But one thing you can not say is that he is rude or an elitist. And don't EVER bad talk his windex. But ego trippng, elitism, poor manners, talk about the pot calling the kettle....... TXL |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:14:52 PM EDT
[#28]
That's right out of the COC. Does it limit "freedom of speech"? Of course it does. But the owners (and most of us) believe that some speech is vile enough that they don't want it on this site. Freedom of speech is not the issue. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:15:02 PM EDT
[#29]
no it is called manners. In the GD and rest of the board we don't CALL OUT to attack others members. If you feel you have a NEED for this go see Big ED in the pit. mike |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:15:45 PM EDT
[#30]
There's a large minority of people here who hate authority in any uniform. They don't mind the military because they're a thousand miles away but they hate the police with their heart and soul. I believe there's a large sub-set of them who are the dopers as the paranoia and hate for the police is pretty strong among the dopes I knew. Some just hate all forms of authority because they can't comply with any law not in the Constitution - whether it be seat belts or taxes.
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:17:24 PM EDT
[#31]
Well said. I agree completely. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:19:15 PM EDT
[#32]
I just got done reviewing the first amendment... no free speech here until Juan sells the site to the gubment... You are guests. You are invited to express your opinion, you are asked to do it respectfully. If you cross the line you'll get slapped for it. No need for more rules, just keep it civil.
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:23:26 PM EDT
[#33]
And I disagree wholeheartedly. I can imagine that there may be people on this Board who hate people in uniform, but I have never had one tell me so. There's much more military stateside than there is across the seas. So why not hate them here? Dopers? Yeah, that must be it! The Dopers are routinely against the militarization of the police! Like our Founding Fathers, the Great Granddaddies of all Dopers. I wear seatbelts religiously and I pay my taxes grudingly, so there must be another reason that y'all think I hate LEOs? Well, what could that be? Eric The(NeverEvenBeenArrested)Hun
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:24:44 PM EDT
[#34]
It absolutely is the issue! You are talking about removing the ability of members of an internet forum to criticize the enforcement arm of government! You are talking about putting special protections on a class of Arfcommers! I say no special protection for police! If the criticism violates the existing COC rules then the Mods can lock the thread. Other than that, LET THEM SPEAK! You can rebut if you want! And BTW...My check is in the mail! |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:27:27 PM EDT
[#35]
We should have a rule forbidding bashing of software engineers. Wahhh it isn't fair.
seriously, I don't much like the people that bash cops here either but I don't think we need any more rules. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:33:41 PM EDT
[#36]
i'll ban the very next guy that bashes a bicyclist, fellow road racer, tourist, mountain biker...or anyone that just plain old wants a heroic viking funeral...without bagpipes.
and i get to ban those that bash engineers, also! we serve mankind! and 'i' get to determine exactly what 'bashing' is. and i also get to determine what 'is' is. and i also get to wear the cool viking helmet with the horns. and i get to make up other nifty rules as i see fit! |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:36:01 PM EDT
[#37]
somebody forget to change Bob's diaper? |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:36:39 PM EDT
[#38]
Funny comments, campybob. Why don't you bash honorable military troopers and see how well that goes over? Go ahead. I dare you.  |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:37:47 PM EDT
[#39]
There's a large minority of people here who hate authority in any uniform.
doh!!!! |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:41:00 PM EDT
[#40]
OK, To hell with any cop or any soldier that cannot take criticism from the American people! We have a first amendment right to freedom of speech, and that is there SPECIFICALLY to criticize the government and it's agents. If you are a soldier or cop, and you are not serving with the express intention of defending that right, then please resign. Your service is unwanted! 
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:47:11 PM EDT
[#41]
To hell with any individual who believes that their career field and job position is somehow or another related to social stature. That's really the core of my attitude towards politicians, cops, military, attorneys, doctors, software engineers, and those damn sanitation workers.
When you sit on the toilet, stinky shit comes out of your ass just like the rest of us. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:47:19 PM EDT
[#42]
No. You misunderstood. I, along with you and many others, will quickly jump on a bad cop (or soldier). What I was talking about is those that are "good and honorable", and are serving to the best of their ability. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:55:34 PM EDT
[#43]
Post from Old_Painless:
No, that is simply not true. What you were talking about is when I, most particularly, complained about the 'militarization' of the LEOs in connection with a complaint about 'military style funerals' in a story about the funeral of a good and honorable peace officer. You chose to view that as somehow insulting to this dead man, his widow, and the rest of the LEO community and then you sought to curtail my ability to complain ('bash') further about what a few of us consider the horrible and deleterious militarization of law enforcement by suggesting that a rule be made to prevent discussion of such matters. Now, tell the truth and shame the Devil, isn't that more like it? Eric The(HonestAsTheDayIsLong)Hun
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Posted: 8/24/2004 12:58:32 PM EDT
[#44]
What's the deciding factor? Most of the debates here about cops have been debates over whether or not the cop acted appropriately. When a cop shoots a dog, and one side says he was out of line and the other side says he was just doing his job, who becomes the arbitor of right and wrong in that case? What standard is to be used? Whether or not the cop was charged with a crime? What if the cop SHOULD have been charged with a crime, but wasn't? Is that prohibited speech? It's a slipperly slope, and I am against setting one foot on it. Sorry, OP. Not trying to dis on "The Law", I just don't think we should open pandora's box on this issue! |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 1:00:06 PM EDT
[#45]
NO MORE RULES!
Can't some of you people stand up on your own without having mommy come save you?  |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 1:02:36 PM EDT
[#46]
Bi-cyclists wear those faggy shorts and hog up whole lanes of traffic meant for VEHICLES.
Bastards...I cant stand them. They are ALL like that. 
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Posted: 8/24/2004 1:07:01 PM EDT
[#47]
I think there are 2 things we need to consider. As much as I love and support our military,I cannot cover my eyes,mouth and my ears when one of them screws up. I condemn those that act without authority,but even more, those with authority who abuse it.That goes for police officers,military,doctors,lawyers,politicians,etc. As long as members don't "paint everyone....or most ......in a group with the same brush", when an element of said group screws up,I think we should allow it. Those that act with dishonesty or exceed their authority should be discussed here,and I cannot see how anyone would not see them in a negative light.What is not fair,and will not be allowed,is to say that because of their negative actions ALL in that group should be considered the same. Bashing is somewhat subjective.To have someone here say "I got a ticket unfairly today,and that (particular) cop was an asshat",in my opinion does not constitute bashing. I see threads here where docs are trashed.Sometimes the author of the post is right and sometimes they are not,but as long as they don't generalize and make blanket statement about them I do not feel alluded to. The same goes to aliens and should apply to any group being discussed here.IOW.My neighbor,who is (a cop,black,white,Asian,doctor,lawyer,muslim,etc) is an asshat,because......X,Yor Z is acceptable. All (fill the blank) are asshats, IS NOT OK,and will not be allowed. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 1:07:10 PM EDT
[#48]
+1 I can't add anything worthwhile so I just say +1 to ilikelegs post. I don't think we need more rules and ad another protected class. Police are already a protected class and so are their dogs. 
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Posted: 8/24/2004 1:08:34 PM EDT
[#49]
I, for one, am disturbed at the "free pass" many want to give those who served in the military simply because they served. While most honorable is the ideal of military service, it is disingenuous to assume that all those who served had honorable intentions as the basis for their enlistment or that they served honorably at all.
Moreover, I tend to get quite annoyed as well with, what I'll call, "miliatary eliteism," that comes from some of those that profess to have "been there and done that." That is to say, some seem to think that they are the sole repositories of wisdom and knowledge for anything "tactical" and that anyone who did not serve has no right to challenge their thinking or knowledge regarding these subjects. I believe that the two ideas are related. ANY citizen of this country has a right and a DUTY to question governmental power and the exercise thereof. And if that means questioning the use of troops, and their actions, then so be it. No disespect to those who have served honorably, but the discussion of politics and use of troops sometimes requires criticism of their actions, even down to a particular unit or individual. Moreover, the lesson of John Kerry should be teaching us all that sometimes it just may be appropriate to post the question, "what is honorable service, and what does that entail." I am quite disheatened that some say we should NEVER question or debate the nature or character of a person's service and that ANY service is honorable. No way Jose. No free passes. It demeans those who DID serve with honor. John F'ing Kerry is a slap in the fact to all those who bled to earn their purple hearts. |
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Posted: 8/24/2004 1:08:53 PM EDT
[#50]
Damn I love former cubans more everyday, see ya soon buddy.
edited to say former cause he is really red, white, and blue on the inside. |
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