Originally Posted By Tboy:


I understand how folks can take offense at my taking offense with each other.  (Just because I say something that offends does not mean it's not true so if you want to take this offline so you can tell me what I say isn't true, feel free)  I appreciate your assistance at this time but I'm still trying to wrap my head around what's going on and how to help others since the group I've attached to are still trying to get a firm actionable plan in order.  It's great that you can help your home village with the needed material but I'm trying to work with people to get supplies out to other areas that are in more desperate need.  So, if you have hundreds of tourniquets, I'll drive to the village to pick them up so I can get them to the front lines where they're desperately needed.

I'm dealing with things on the ground, surrounded by many people freaking out, not knowing what to do, after repeatedly ignoring my advice and pleas this past month.  They now are acknowledging what's going on but still don't have the proper tools or mindset that's needed.  I'm not dealing with an extended family (like you) but encountering many various Ukrainians with different lifestyles and viewpoints so I'm finding I have a better sample pool to make my observations & conclusions.  I'm sorry I offend you as a Ukrainian but I'm not holding back any punches when telling my observations on the ground and relaying information I'm being told by locals & fellow expats.  I'm glad you had the foresight to prepare resources to help your family and community so hope that you can continue to do this for them.

I want to be clear that I have not asked nor will I ever ask for anything for myself on this forum.  I do not want your pity or charity but I do want help for others here that are suffering.  I put myself into this situation MANY TIMES.  I left the country 3 times since December and have returned each time, trying to prepare the people and help as needed.  I just had to turn away a local man that wants to flee with his wife and was telling me how serious the situation is, especially now that he has had others move in with him and he has no job.

So let's be clear for everyone to understand the mentality and mindset here in Ukraine.  It will offend many Ukrainians or descendants of Ukrainians but it is what it is.

Months, weeks, days, and even hours before the attacks the world WARNED Ukraine repeatedly that there will be an invasion.  The vast majority of Ukrainians in my area ignored this, wishfully thinking that this wouldn't happen and if it did it wouldn't be big or happen far away from them.  Then the actual date is announced and they create a national holiday of UNITY.  Seriously.  Going around singing Ukrainian songs while waving flag - not preparing for war.  Then the day of the attacks, folks went about their daily lives, going to work, trying to keep up a fake façade that everything will be ok.  It wasn't.  Still no signs of reinforcing the city, guarding key strategic centers/buildings, or bringing soldiers in.  I did see more police patrolling, some equipped with sticks. I went to the gas station weeks before to top off and was buying supplies before the attack and locals were giving me weird looks (I think the cashier was making fun of me).

So Saturday I wake up to another siren with more people fleeing here from the East & West and then moving forward.  (By the way, lodging prices have skyrocketed due to the profiteers)  I decided to reach out and ask the female friends if they needed help but they refused.  So I reached out to my personal trainer (former military) and went over his action plans that I've been BEATING into his head the past month.  He thought he had a plan (one being me buying him a shotgun at my own expense) but still didn't know what to do with his family because his wife refused to leave.  He was wishfully thinking he could drive his car to the border, sell it, and then have resources to send her to Italy.  The only way to get his kids to safety was to send his wife with them and the only way to do this was for me to drive them to Italy (at which time I was told her alcoholic friend/small child would be going with us.) so we became a clown car of refugees.  This decision was made in matters of moments so that's why I disappeared for a few days.

Keep up with me while I continue to tell my story of love and frustration with these amazingly flawed people that think Americans are their saviors.  I am critical of these people because I care very dearly for them and refuse to leave them behind.  But I also want others to know what kind of backward mindset one deals with here.  The local friends are now looking at me, agreeing with me, but I'm not doing the "I told you so" but instead saying, "How can I help?", "Are you OK?", giving them pep speeches, encouragement, and smiling at the stressed out and scared guys/soldiers telling them that they're doing a good job.

As we are leaving Saturday afternoon, I'm starting to see makeshift roadblocks being constructed on the edges of Lviv so I start driving down into the Carpathians, passing villages that are constructing makeshift barriers/bunkers guarded by men huddled together with no weapons (Ukrainian friend that's a Canadian citizen that returned to marry a Ukrainian was laughing how he had to explain to his stepsons why all the men are huddled together - do drink).  Once we get to Skole on this small two lane road, the road becomes a stopped traffic jam ALL THE WAY TO THE BORDER.  Something that I've never seen before (vast majority of cars driven by military age men).  Gas stations were empty with cars parked outside, hoping to get gas the next day, but I eventually made it to the border early Sunday morning where I had to wait another 14 hours in a car full of 5 Ukrainians.  Once we got into Hungary, we continued to drive into Budapest where I stopped for an extra day, trying to boost their spirits, give them needed rest, and pretend we were on a fun vacation.  I did the final push to Brescia to discover the house we were going to was a tiny apartment already lived in by the alcoholic friend's adult daughter & elderly mother (I keep calling her an alcoholic because I know she doesn't have much money but kept buying beer on our trip and then tried to shove bottles of wine down my throat).  The trainer's wife was still in shock, refusing to take charge, telling me how I need to be the "captain", saying that I was her new husband.  She kept telling me that she wanted to go home and was convinced this would only last a few days.  She offered to give me money but I refused because I know that was the money I previously gave her husband to help with this foreseen situation.  She didn't want me to tell her husband how dire the living situation was but I refused and immediately reached out to him to let him know.  The next day before I left, the women laughed about the situation, showing everyone packed in a tiny room, sleeping together.  That just isn't sustainable for the teenage daughter so I tried to find resources and refused to leave them until I was guaranteed that they'd be ok.

So I return to Lviv early Friday morning. to a city I didn't leave behind.  There is now mass paranoia going around with many of the local males "guarding" their apartment complexes (unarmed) while I'm finally seeing soldiers in the city, buildings being restricted, barricades put in place, no pictures allowed, and alcohol sales banned.  They are in fear of Russian infiltrators so putting on armbands and changing orders at the roadblocks to catch people like me.  My personal trainer was an emotional and physical wreck last night so he was trying to update me on the mood.  The locals aren't happy being invaded by all the men from Central & Eastern Ukraine who were going around getting drunk and causing problems, therefore resulting in alcohol ban (I'm just relaying what he said so it could also have been drunk locals because Ukraine being Ukraine).  He also said there was a push by locals trying to get the government to round up these outsiders to send them back to their areas to fight.  Again, just repeating what he was saying so I'm not sure if how much his opinion is shared by others here.

While this is going on, I've been trying to get my wife from Kiev this past month, offering her and her best friend a place to stay in Lviv or send them to Georgia for safety because I know her mental and physical health is extremely fragile.  Instead she refuses to leave, after countless requests. so I finally tell her that I will hold her boyfriend 100% accountable for her safety.  Then once the bombs drop, I beg with her again, while she's standing outside the bomb shelter.  She still refuses so I finally have to ask the question that I already know the answer.  Her boyfriend refuses to join the defense forces and fight but instead prefers to hide in the apartment with two terrified women.  I said "not good" when I wanted to let her know that he's a selfish coward but I knew that would upset her more.  I love her unconditionally and promised that I will never leave Ukraine without knowing her safety is guaranteed.  I keep in touch with her daily but yesterday was a very bad day for her and her deep depression kicked in so I'm not sure how long this will last.  I keep sending daily uplifting affirmations, saying it's going to be ok, but I don't know how much longer she can manage until she has a complete mental breakdown (undiagnosed BPD) and her health fails to the point of no return.  

So, yes, I'm upset and frustrated with Ukrainians and their backward mindset.  Thankfully I see a silver lining in the next generation that don't appear to think like the older generations.

On a side note, it looks like I'll be hosting some fleeing Indians trying to get out of Kiev and into Poland.

Also a fun saying locals like to say.  We say "You can take the girl out of Ukraine but you can't take the Ukrainian out of the girl"  The city people have that saying about the local villagers which is an odd mindset of its own.  They laugh and put them down so are surprised when I say that's not always the case in the US.


TLDR version - Ukrainians can be very frustrating people to deal with, many with the mindset of children, needing their hands held.  Those that love them try to help while many say "Screw it" and walk away.  I'm not going anywhere and will be here to help the locals survive and pick up the pieces when this war is over and Americans have moved to our next daily soundbite since we have little to no attention span.  Yes, I am critical.  Yes, I have explained in detail how I come up with my conclusions so if you want to debate on specific items, we can have a chat at a different time/place.  If you're offended, you might want to look into the reason why and ask yourself questions why "Ukraine is weak".

Until then, I'm very encouraged that the Ukrainians have the right leadership in place and a highly motivated military that will fight for survival.

Originally Posted By solid:

Maybe because the Russians can magically create a dirty bomb and give reason for their invasion ? Maybe

Originally Posted By CS223:
I knew the moment they cut off their Twitter and Facebook the shit would hit the fan.

Originally Posted By elcope:


As someone who has served continuously since the Cold War (1985) and the Russians are going to break through the Fulda Gap OMG, I'm disappointed in their performance. I'm also pleasantly surprised at how well the premise of "let's dump shit-tons of easy-to-use ATGM's and MANPADS" doctrine is working out for the Ukrainians. Who knew that arming the fuck out of motivated people works?

Do I think the Soviets of the 1980's would have performed better than now, probably, but there were also a shit-ton more of them too. Same as us.

For days now, I've been told "to wait for their tier one units".

I posit that this is their tier one units. This is as good as they get on the large scale.

As a logistician, watching that 40 mile stalled convoy flounder is both professionally infuriating, (how could they do that to their own troops) as well as (C'mon Ukrainians, fuck that thing up) and hilariously amusing.

They've turned their own logistics convoy into the Ukrainians largest POW camp through their own inaction / inability to move. Day 8 into a 3 day move??? The first half of that convoy is out of fuel and the batteries are dead. The morale in that convoy must be absolute shit.

Half those trucks will still be there 3 months from now even if no one is shooting at the maintenance recovery teams, or the Ukrainian version of rednecks don't steal them.

I look forward to the videos.

Originally Posted By clickclickBOOM:


Y’all know nuclear warheads expire and have to be “recharged/rebuilt” from time to time right? The main component that needs to be refreshed is tritium. Where does tritium come from?

Originally Posted By m35ben:
Surely the Russians would understand how to defeat their own system. I hope they can't but damn.