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Posted: 10/27/2021 8:27:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: The_Beer_Slayer]
This is now the active "shit News links, thanks to BerettaGuy: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: LINKS TO UKRAINIAN NEWS SOURCES IN ENGLISH Kyiv Post Ukrainian News UKRInform EUROMAIDEN PRESS New Voice of Ukraine Kyiv Independent Ukraine World InterFax Ukraine UATV Ukrainian Journal Official Website of the President of Ukraine Ukrainian Ministry of Defense Save these links. I can't post all the headlines like I've done in the past - too much news and too often. Please @ me with additional stuff to be added here. I don't currently have time to properly curate this thread otherwise. New news link c/o berettaguy: Ukrainian Pravda https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/ Stop fake, anti - disinformation site: https://www.stopfake.org/en/main/ |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 11:17:55 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DASJUDEN: Gonna have to disagree on that point. We shouldn't be depleting our stockpiles, we should use this as a test to put domestic production on war footing and see what we can actually crank out if the need requires it. Got old stuff sitting around? Make the new stuff and once delivered to the units ship the old stuff out. Lets us upgrade our line systems and see where our shortcomings are on the production/logistics front in the event of an actual war. Frankly we need to see how rusty the "arsenal of democracy" actually is at this point. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DASJUDEN: Originally Posted By postpostban: ...Refusing to help because we have to maintain stockpile numbers seems foolish. Those stockpiles are only there to be used against our enemies. Russia has more than earned the title of enemy... Gonna have to disagree on that point. We shouldn't be depleting our stockpiles, we should use this as a test to put domestic production on war footing and see what we can actually crank out if the need requires it. Got old stuff sitting around? Make the new stuff and once delivered to the units ship the old stuff out. Lets us upgrade our line systems and see where our shortcomings are on the production/logistics front in the event of an actual war. Frankly we need to see how rusty the "arsenal of democracy" actually is at this point. This is a wake-up call for US arms production. We don’t want to be Russia with shitloads of ancient stocks and equipment that needs complete overhaul. This is the time to clean and clear out everything and ramp up production like we are going to war with china in 2025. We should build up warehouses of shit with 202X production dates… from Rockets to MREs. |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 11:20:28 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: This is a regular one-day memorial/symbolic thing, not a permanent change. Has gone on a long while IIRC. Citizens of the city sign petition to permanently rename city back to Stalingrad |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 11:29:13 AM EDT
[#3]
Why no napalm use?
have to be new, creative delivery systems somewhere orcs congregated in holes/trenches/bunkers need to keep warm, right? |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 11:30:29 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Better than ATACMS: What missiles can Israel provide to Ukraine Ukraine can get extremely effective Israeli Lora ballistic missiles. A real sensation came from the mouth of the head of the Israeli National Security Council, Eyal Hulat. He stated: if Iran supplies Russia with Fateh-110 and Zolfaghar ballistic missiles, Israel can provide high-precision missiles to Ukraine in return. The local Channel 9 writes with reference to experts and analysts that Khulat meant Israeli ballistic missiles. Defense Express believes that it is about the Lora OTRK - it was Israel that supplied it to Azerbaijan. This weapon has already been successfully tested in Nagorny Karabas. Lora is a new generation of long-range high-precision weapons. Can destroy targets at a range of up to 400 km. The size of the warhead is 570 kg. In addition to the usual high-explosive fragmentation weapon, it can be equipped with a special anti-bunker warhead. It has a television targeting system that allows you to hit the target with the minimum possible error. Can maneuver during flight, which makes it difficult to intercept. Due to its small size, it can be launched from the chassis of a regular truck. The Defense Express profile publication considers the Lora OTRK to be better than the American ATACMS in most parameters - the flight range is 100 km longer, and the weight of the warhead is 2.5 times greater. Now about the reality of obtaining such a weapon. Eyal Khulat is retiring soon, so he can afford such statements. But there are two factors that play in our favor: It would be shameful for the Netanyahu government to withdraw this promise of the previous government, because it will look like weakness in front of Iran The military alliance of Russia and Iran and the possibility of Tehran obtaining nuclear technologies is a huge threat to the security of Israel. So there are two options - either Russia will give up Iranian missiles so as not to receive "cotton" in return, or the Armed Forces will have weapons and additional capabilities to deter the enemy. We are watching!!! In the meantime, subscribe to Orestocracy. https://t.me/bochkala_war/9876 Of course a lot of Russian talent have left for Israel |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 11:32:05 AM EDT
[#5]
 Attached FileIf the 300k they have are ineffective as fuck… more is going to do nothing but prolong things and increase the death toll to more horrific levels. |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 11:33:09 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Yeah since the beginning of this I've seen a number of vehicles and people who could have been saved with something as simple as a tarp strung up above them, or a basic A-frame tarp shelter to deflect the grenade / provide standoff. Not to mention the tarps ability to reduce the drones ability to tell if a hole is occupied or not...its madness. I wonder, are these frontline guys not getting any video like we see on r/combatfootage etc? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By _disconnector_: I just can't understand the absolute idiocy of not having the slightest overhead cover. Just a bunch of branches propped over the hole if nothing else. It just seems amazingly stupid to me. Yeah since the beginning of this I've seen a number of vehicles and people who could have been saved with something as simple as a tarp strung up above them, or a basic A-frame tarp shelter to deflect the grenade / provide standoff. Not to mention the tarps ability to reduce the drones ability to tell if a hole is occupied or not...its madness. I wonder, are these frontline guys not getting any video like we see on r/combatfootage etc? They may be material poor? No tarps or adequate fabric available? |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 11:36:01 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By general_cluster: i am surprised by how small those balls are. speed conquers all I guess. they must really be hauling the mail. That has got to be demoralizing to the point of terror. momentum is speed times weight. tungsten is dense. I read about it when they first started using it in shotgun shells. The biggest problem is that its expensive. But guys were testing loads and re-using it to reload. But they were saying they shot some through a stop sign and caught it in a catch. They acted like that wasn't any deformation and they could re-use it. Thats all the turkey hunters talk about (TSS). |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 11:36:42 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/49447/7CAB6A34-9184-4698-A207-397174FF6F8F_jpe-2609892.JPG If the 300k they have are ineffective as fuck… more is going to do nothing but prolong things and increase the death toll to more horrific levels. I can't help but think that Putin is hoping to throw bodies at Ukraine long enough that the West eventually grows tired of funding the war. That's the only rationale I can see behind further mobilization. |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 11:43:58 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Our shit really is way out of order, and when people object to our involvement on those grounds….I get it. But on those same grounds, there’s a LOT we can’t afford. I could stand to hear those objections too. https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/2021-04/57171-mandatory-spending.png Now do "Discretionary Spending" as the DoD's budget is discretionary, not mandatory. 
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Posted: 11/22/2022 11:46:15 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: In WWII, Russian troops waited for someone to drop in order to get a rifle and bandolier. In Ukraine, they have to wait for some to get injured in order to get pants.
Someone handed out the Soviet style helmets |
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USA
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Posted: 11/22/2022 11:46:21 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: We are, for multiple systems, but it doesn't make big news. This week: https://www.defensenews.com/land/2022/11/14/army-awards-lockheed-500m-deal-to-replenish-rockets-stockpile/#:~:text=Last%20month%2C%20Lockheed%20announced%20it,has%20sent%20to%20the%20country From September this year: https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/landwarfareintl/dod-procurement-chief-signals-gmlrs-production-boost/ https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/11/17/uk-bae-artillery-shell-production/ September, US: https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-ramp-up-production-artillery-shells-rockets/ Javelin: https://www.raytheonmissilesanddefense.com/news/2022/10/10/ramping-up-javelin-production-to-support-increased-demands On a side note. We have enough anti-ship missiles to sink every ship in the world, and they told us to triple production of some models like LRASM. For those interested in procurement and contracts to see that kind of news this site is useful, because I found they would post stuff a day after I was informed of some things at the plant I worked at. https://www.spacewar.com/ Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By DASJUDEN: Originally Posted By Kagetora: Nope. I've never been that cool. Hell, I've never been cool a day in my life. My point is that we could ramp up missile production MUCH faster than we could ramp up platform production. Exponentially faster. If we left ourselves 75% of our platforms, and a much smaller percentage of our ammo by providing the rest to Ukraine to obliterate Russian idiots, we'd be FAR ahead of the game. That's not even counting the potentially compatible missile ammo from our allies, i.e. South Korea, who don't seem to have the dipshits that we do running our military manufacturing complex at the moment. Agreed, but we aren't ramping production up for some reason. We need to fix that, like now if only for self serving reasons. On my side of the house I'm hoping that the switch from Hellfire to JAGM will light a fire under somebodies ass but I've been around long enough to know that in the Army hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. We are, for multiple systems, but it doesn't make big news. This week: https://www.defensenews.com/land/2022/11/14/army-awards-lockheed-500m-deal-to-replenish-rockets-stockpile/#:~:text=Last%20month%2C%20Lockheed%20announced%20it,has%20sent%20to%20the%20country WASHINGTON The U.S. Army has awarded Lockheed Martin a deal worth $521 million to replenish U.S. stocks of Guided Multiple Launch Rocket Systems, which were supplied to Ukraine to beat back Russia's invasion. The service on Oct. 21 and Nov. 2 issued contracts funded by Congress' supplemental appropriation to support Ukraine. "These awards demonstrate the significant impact GMLRS are having on the battlefield as a vital combat capability for our international partners," William LaPlante, the under secretary of defense for acquisition and sustainment, said in a Nov. 14 statement. "They are great examples of contracting approaches we are using to more rapidly accelerate award timelines and ultimately deliver capability." Last month, Army acquisition chief Doug Bush told Defense News the Army is using multiple methods to accelerate contracts that will replenish supplies heading to Ukraine. Bush said in the Nov. 14 statement the Army remains "committed to getting things on contract as quickly as possible to ensure our stocks are rapidly replenished." Lockheed Martin also won a $179 million contract earlier this fall to replace High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, or HIMARS, that are also being sent to Ukraine, along with an order of GMLRS. From September this year: https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/landwarfareintl/dod-procurement-chief-signals-gmlrs-production-boost/ The DoD is working with Lockheed Martin to expand production capacity of Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) rockets for the M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS). Speaking to CBS News on 4 September, Dr William LaPlante, Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition & Sustainment, said that GMLRS output capacity has to 'at least double', although he gave no timeframe. Lockheed Martin COO Frank St John said the company currently produces about 7,500 rockets per year but it can go higher. 'We have capacity to produce 10,000 rockets a year' for US and export customers such as Ukraine, St John told CBS News, adding that Lockheed Martin is conducting analysis to 'potentially take that up to 12,000-14,000 rockets a year'. LaPlante said that an expanded production rate can be sustained 'as long as the demand is needed We can keep production lines open for 30 years.' https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/11/17/uk-bae-artillery-shell-production/ The UK government has asked BAE Systems to increase artillery shell production to replenish dwindling stocks due to its supply to Ukraine, The Telegraph has reported. London has issued a letter of intent to the British defense company, conveying that an order is imminent. The message gives the company confidence to start constructing new production lines. September, US: https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-ramp-up-production-artillery-shells-rockets/ The Army plans to dramatically accelerate the production of 155mm artillery shells and precision-guided rockets to make up for all the munitions that the United States has provided to Ukraine, said Doug Bush, assistant secretary of the Army for acquisition, logistics and technology. The US military needs a lot more artillery shells, rockets, and missiles for the next war "We are seeking over a couple of years to nearly triple our production of 155 [mm shells]," Bush said on Wednesday. Congress has been supportive; we have funding; we are executing and making that happen. We are also, through support from Congress, working to dramatically increase our production rate for GLMRS missiles Guided MLRS [Multiple Launch Rocket System], HIMARS [High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems] launchers in most cases doubling or more than doubling current production rates." Javelin: https://www.raytheonmissilesanddefense.com/news/2022/10/10/ramping-up-javelin-production-to-support-increased-demands In May and again in September 2022, the Javelin Joint Venture was awarded production contracts for Javelin rounds and support. More than 3,100 of the missiles procured will go toward replacing systems sent to Ukraine. To meet this new demand, Lockheed Martin is increasing the missile production rate beyond the current 2,100 per year to nearly 4,000 per year. To increase production to nearly 4,000 per year, Lockheed Martin is ramping up production on its already-active manufacturing line and with Javelin's supply chain partners. Lockheed Martin is also investing in accelerating the long-lead supply chain parts and equipment needed to support higher rates of production and speed delivery to our customers. Several large investment projects will also go toward upgrading equipment and tooling to increase manufacturing efficiency and reduce production down time. Additional staff are also being hired to the Javelin production line as well as up and down the supply chain to help reach the new max output rate. "The production and workforce investments we're making now will allow us to rapidly deliver this critical capability to our customers. The Javelin Joint Venture is committed to meeting this increase in demand," says Dave Pantano, Javelin Joint Venture vice president and Lockheed Martin Javelin program director. "We're working closely with the U.S. Army to meet this new demand and support customer readiness worldwide." Likewise, Raytheon Missiles & Defense is keenly focused on accelerating production rates and lowering lead times to support demand. On a side note. We have enough anti-ship missiles to sink every ship in the world, and they told us to triple production of some models like LRASM. For those interested in procurement and contracts to see that kind of news this site is useful, because I found they would post stuff a day after I was informed of some things at the plant I worked at. https://www.spacewar.com/ Great post. There was also a DoD document or something a while back that said they're looking to invest in infrastructure to further increase production. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 11/22/2022 12:03:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Estimated guided Russian weapons left as of November 18th. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FiKSjoPWIAAhR7k?format=jpg&name=large Looks like they're still able to produce pretty decent numbers of them. Also, it's incredible how many S300 they have. No wonder they're content to waste some on ground attack. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 11/22/2022 12:06:12 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: They may be material poor? No tarps or adequate fabric available? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By _disconnector_: I just can't understand the absolute idiocy of not having the slightest overhead cover. Just a bunch of branches propped over the hole if nothing else. It just seems amazingly stupid to me. Yeah since the beginning of this I've seen a number of vehicles and people who could have been saved with something as simple as a tarp strung up above them, or a basic A-frame tarp shelter to deflect the grenade / provide standoff. Not to mention the tarps ability to reduce the drones ability to tell if a hole is occupied or not...its madness. I wonder, are these frontline guys not getting any video like we see on r/combatfootage etc? They may be material poor? No tarps or adequate fabric available? Shit, after a few drone videos I'd be sewing quilts out of MRE wrappers and clothing scavenged from the dead. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 11/22/2022 12:25:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fervid_dryfire: Hesrightyouknow.gif Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fervid_dryfire: Originally Posted By Chaingun: Originally Posted By ad_nauseam: Originally Posted By strykr: Ukraine will either become part of NATO or develop its own nuclear weapons. The knowledge is there and so is the motivation. Russia cannot take Ukraine by force. If UA never gave up its own nukes circa 1991, this war would have never occurred. Hesrightyouknow.gif Fuel for thought... what was Jimmy Carter doing as an election monitor around the world after he was voted out of the white house? Was he learning some things and coaching the demorat party? |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 11/22/2022 12:53:18 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: We are, for multiple systems, but it doesn't make big news. This week: https://www.defensenews.com/land/2022/11/14/army-awards-lockheed-500m-deal-to-replenish-rockets-stockpile/#:~:text=Last%20month%2C%20Lockheed%20announced%20it,has%20sent%20to%20the%20country From September this year: https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/landwarfareintl/dod-procurement-chief-signals-gmlrs-production-boost/ https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/11/17/uk-bae-artillery-shell-production/ September, US: https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-ramp-up-production-artillery-shells-rockets/ Javelin: https://www.raytheonmissilesanddefense.com/news/2022/10/10/ramping-up-javelin-production-to-support-increased-demands On a side note. We have enough anti-ship missiles to sink every ship in the world, and they told us to triple production of some models like LRASM. For those interested in procurement and contracts to see that kind of news this site is useful, because I found they would post stuff a day after I was informed of some things at the plant I worked at. https://www.spacewar.com/ Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By DASJUDEN: Originally Posted By Kagetora: Nope. I've never been that cool. Hell, I've never been cool a day in my life. My point is that we could ramp up missile production MUCH faster than we could ramp up platform production. Exponentially faster. If we left ourselves 75% of our platforms, and a much smaller percentage of our ammo by providing the rest to Ukraine to obliterate Russian idiots, we'd be FAR ahead of the game. That's not even counting the potentially compatible missile ammo from our allies, i.e. South Korea, who don't seem to have the dipshits that we do running our military manufacturing complex at the moment. Agreed, but we aren't ramping production up for some reason. We need to fix that, like now if only for self serving reasons. On my side of the house I'm hoping that the switch from Hellfire to JAGM will light a fire under somebodies ass but I've been around long enough to know that in the Army hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. We are, for multiple systems, but it doesn't make big news. This week: https://www.defensenews.com/land/2022/11/14/army-awards-lockheed-500m-deal-to-replenish-rockets-stockpile/#:~:text=Last%20month%2C%20Lockheed%20announced%20it,has%20sent%20to%20the%20country WASHINGTON — The U.S. Army has awarded Lockheed Martin a deal worth $521 million to replenish U.S. stocks of Guided Multiple Launch Rocket Systems, which were supplied to Ukraine to beat back Russia’s invasion. The service on Oct. 21 and Nov. 2 issued contracts funded by Congress’ supplemental appropriation to support Ukraine. “These awards demonstrate the significant impact GMLRS are having on the battlefield as a vital combat capability for our international partners,” William LaPlante, the under secretary of defense for acquisition and sustainment, said in a Nov. 14 statement. “They are great examples of contracting approaches we are using to more rapidly accelerate award timelines and ultimately deliver capability.” Last month, Army acquisition chief Doug Bush told Defense News the Army is using multiple methods to accelerate contracts that will replenish supplies heading to Ukraine. Bush said in the Nov. 14 statement the Army remains “committed to getting things on contract as quickly as possible to ensure our stocks are rapidly replenished.” Lockheed Martin also won a $179 million contract earlier this fall to replace High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, or HIMARS, that are also being sent to Ukraine, along with an order of GMLRS. From September this year: https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/landwarfareintl/dod-procurement-chief-signals-gmlrs-production-boost/ The DoD is working with Lockheed Martin to expand production capacity of Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System (GMLRS) rockets for the M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS). Speaking to CBS News on 4 September, Dr William LaPlante, Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition & Sustainment, said that GMLRS output capacity has to ‘at least double’, although he gave no timeframe. Lockheed Martin COO Frank St John said the company currently produces about 7,500 rockets per year but it can go higher. ‘We have capacity to produce 10,000 rockets a year’ for US and export customers such as Ukraine, St John told CBS News, adding that Lockheed Martin is conducting analysis to ‘potentially take that up to 12,000-14,000 rockets a year’. LaPlante said that an expanded production rate can be sustained ‘as long as the demand is needed… We can keep production lines open for 30 years.’ https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/11/17/uk-bae-artillery-shell-production/ The UK government has asked BAE Systems to increase artillery shell production to replenish dwindling stocks due to its supply to Ukraine, The Telegraph has reported. London has issued a letter of intent to the British defense company, conveying that an order is imminent. The message gives the company confidence to start constructing new production lines. September, US: https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-ramp-up-production-artillery-shells-rockets/ The Army plans to dramatically accelerate the production of 155mm artillery shells and precision-guided rockets to make up for all the munitions that the United States has provided to Ukraine, said Doug Bush, assistant secretary of the Army for acquisition, logistics and technology. The US military needs a lot more artillery shells, rockets, and missiles for the next war “We are seeking over a couple of years to nearly triple our production of 155 [mm shells],” Bush said on Wednesday. Congress has been supportive; we have funding; we are executing and making that happen. We are also, through support from Congress, working to dramatically increase our production rate for GLMRS missiles – Guided MLRS [Multiple Launch Rocket System], HIMARS [High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems] launchers – in most cases doubling or more than doubling current production rates.” Javelin: https://www.raytheonmissilesanddefense.com/news/2022/10/10/ramping-up-javelin-production-to-support-increased-demands In May and again in September 2022, the Javelin Joint Venture was awarded production contracts for Javelin rounds and support. More than 3,100 of the missiles procured will go toward replacing systems sent to Ukraine. To meet this new demand, Lockheed Martin is increasing the missile production rate beyond the current 2,100 per year to nearly 4,000 per year. To increase production to nearly 4,000 per year, Lockheed Martin is ramping up production on its already-active manufacturing line and with Javelin’s supply chain partners. Lockheed Martin is also investing in accelerating the long-lead supply chain parts and equipment needed to support higher rates of production and speed delivery to our customers. Several large investment projects will also go toward upgrading equipment and tooling to increase manufacturing efficiency and reduce production down time. Additional staff are also being hired to the Javelin production line as well as up and down the supply chain to help reach the new max output rate. “The production and workforce investments we’re making now will allow us to rapidly deliver this critical capability to our customers. The Javelin Joint Venture is committed to meeting this increase in demand,” says Dave Pantano, Javelin Joint Venture vice president and Lockheed Martin Javelin program director. “We’re working closely with the U.S. Army to meet this new demand and support customer readiness worldwide.” Likewise, Raytheon Missiles & Defense is keenly focused on accelerating production rates and lowering lead times to support demand. On a side note. We have enough anti-ship missiles to sink every ship in the world, and they told us to triple production of some models like LRASM. For those interested in procurement and contracts to see that kind of news this site is useful, because I found they would post stuff a day after I was informed of some things at the plant I worked at. https://www.spacewar.com/ Lots of great info, great post, thanks. |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 12:53:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Yes. We all agree that Russian's plan for this invasion was pants-on-head retarded. They seriously underestimated the UA and Ukraine in general. And the NATO response. And they seem to have made EVERY tactical and strategic error possible. But, I believe that with the right plan and right leadership, they had the forces necessary to take Kiev. Although certainly not to occupy or hold the whole country. It is possible, even likely that some elements of the Russian military IS learning some lessons from this fiasco and could possibly make some changes. I doubt it but it's possible. Most of what we are seeing now is the remnants of that beaten army. Conscripts, mobiks, drunks and Wagner ex-convicts. It's like looking at the German army of 1945 and saying "they were never a threat to us". I think it would be folly to assume the Russian military will never again be a threat. I agree. The way the 2014 invasion played out, Europe and the West basically shrugged their shoulders like it was something they either knew or expected to happen ( again our foreign policy " at work" ). This time around wasn't the FSB in charge of running the SMO? It seems they had bad Intel from their operatives inside Ukraine saying everything is in place and it was going to be a cake walk (typical of Russian yes men afraid of telling superiors what the actual conditions were). The bolded section is extremely true as long as Russia possesses nuclear weapons. |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 12:55:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Where did the terrorist Girkin disappear to: the SBU general gave the answer
https://tsn.ua/ato/kudi-znik-terorist-girkin-general-sbu-dav-vidpovid-2207326.html  Russian terrorist, former "Minister of Defense of the DPR" Ihor Girkin disappeared from the information field and received a new task from the FSB — to work for the founder of the "Wagner" PMC, Yevgeny Prigozhin, and train subversive groups. Major General of the SBU reserve Viktor Yagun told about this on the air of the "Freedom" channel. "I suspect that Girkin's recent active participation in the blogger community was most likely a task of the FSB to maintain the degree of tension in the ultra-patriotic environment, which they always tried to control, so that there would be a center around which the disaffected could gather. When you lead a disaffected Wednesday, it can be controlled and certain exceptions can be made... He actually left the media industry. He is not in the information space, he stopped this work because it is not needed at all now," said Yagun. According to him, the disappearance of Girkin from the public field happened at the moment when the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Serhii Shoigu began to fight with those bloggers who were beyond his control and actively criticized him. "There were bloggers who were controlled by Prigozhin, Kadyrov and some other people, and separately there were several bloggers who were controlled by the FSB. The FSB and Shoigu could come to an agreement, and that part of the bloggers simply left the information field. Given that the activity of the agent had to be used in another keys, he went to do another job — retrained," the general noted. According to Yagun, the FSB, trying to negotiate with Prigozhin about possible joint actions in the future, "handed over its very valuable agent , who is now actively used in the so-called training unit." " They created a special unit, through which those who will later be formed into subversive units are filtered . This is not a simple assault regiment, it is a training unit. We know who is the personnel officer, who is the chief of staff. We just don't know who is the commander of this unit and where it is located," he said. Yagun suggested that this unit is located near the border with Ukraine. "Ghirkin's entry into the territory of Ukraine, even if it is occupied, is not very desirable for them, as there is a fear that he may fall into the field of view of the Ukrainian special services and be either eliminated or captured," the SBU general added. We will remind you that the Ukrainian special services promise a generous reward to whoever captures Ihor Girkin. The SBU offered 100,000 dollars for a living terrorist. Girkin actively criticized the Putin regime and the failures of the Russian army in the war against Ukraine. In particular, he stated that Putin could repeat the fate of the dictators Hussein and Gaddafi in case of defeat in the war. However, in mid-October, the terrorist announced that he had joined the army of the Russian Federation and disappeared from the media field. Later it became known that Yevgeny Prigozhin was forming a volunteer battalion at the "Wagner" base, where Girkin was recruited . On November 17, the District Court of The Hague found Ihor Girkin one of the three guilty of the downing of flight MH17 in Donbas and the death of almost 300 passengers and crew members. The terrorist was sentenced to life imprisonment in absentia. |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 12:55:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: I can't help but think that Putin is hoping to throw bodies at Ukraine long enough that the West eventually grows tired of funding the war. That's the only rationale I can see behind further mobilization. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: Originally Posted By sq40: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/49447/7CAB6A34-9184-4698-A207-397174FF6F8F_jpe-2609892.JPG If the 300k they have are ineffective as fuck more is going to do nothing but prolong things and increase the death toll to more horrific levels. I can't help but think that Putin is hoping to throw bodies at Ukraine long enough that the West eventually grows tired of funding the war. That's the only rationale I can see behind further mobilization. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/22/2022 12:58:20 PM EDT
[#19]
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MI, USA
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Posted: 11/22/2022 1:01:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Shit, after a few drone videos I'd be sewing quilts out of MRE wrappers and clothing scavenged from the dead. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By _disconnector_: I just can't understand the absolute idiocy of not having the slightest overhead cover. Just a bunch of branches propped over the hole if nothing else. It just seems amazingly stupid to me. Yeah since the beginning of this I've seen a number of vehicles and people who could have been saved with something as simple as a tarp strung up above them, or a basic A-frame tarp shelter to deflect the grenade / provide standoff. Not to mention the tarps ability to reduce the drones ability to tell if a hole is occupied or not...its madness. I wonder, are these frontline guys not getting any video like we see on r/combatfootage etc? They may be material poor? No tarps or adequate fabric available? Shit, after a few drone videos I'd be sewing quilts out of MRE wrappers and clothing scavenged from the dead. That was my exact thought. The Roosskies are literally swimming in trash it seems, and they don't hesitate to steal. I'd be digging multiple decoy holes too. |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 1:06:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: I can't help but think that Putin is hoping to throw bodies at Ukraine long enough that the West eventually grows tired of funding the war. That's the only rationale I can see behind further mobilization. Russia has always been about sacrificing soldiers until they overwhelm the enemy. The losses in WW2 were so high as to sound totally ridiculous. Cheap soldiers is what russia has most of, so it's what they use. |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 1:08:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Where did the terrorist Girkin disappear to: the SBU general gave the answer https://tsn.ua/ato/kudi-znik-terorist-girkin-general-sbu-dav-vidpovid-2207326.html https://img.tsn.ua/cached/242/tsn-15890496c3fba55a55e21f0ca3090d06/thumbs/1036x648/dd/7d/eca99197c799f62f6c59e7fee85b7ddd.jpeg Russian terrorist, former "Minister of Defense of the DPR" Ihor Girkin disappeared from the information field and received a new task from the FSB to work for the founder of the "Wagner" PMC, Yevgeny Prigozhin, and train subversive groups. Major General of the SBU reserve Viktor Yagun told about this on the air of the "Freedom" channel. "I suspect that Girkin's recent active participation in the blogger community was most likely a task of the FSB to maintain the degree of tension in the ultra-patriotic environment, which they always tried to control, so that there would be a center around which the disaffected could gather. When you lead a disaffected Wednesday, it can be controlled and certain exceptions can be made... He actually left the media industry. He is not in the information space, he stopped this work because it is not needed at all now," said Yagun. According to him, the disappearance of Girkin from the public field happened at the moment when the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Serhii Shoigu began to fight with those bloggers who were beyond his control and actively criticized him. "There were bloggers who were controlled by Prigozhin, Kadyrov and some other people, and separately there were several bloggers who were controlled by the FSB. The FSB and Shoigu could come to an agreement, and that part of the bloggers simply left the information field. Given that the activity of the agent had to be used in another keys, he went to do another job retrained," the general noted. According to Yagun, the FSB, trying to negotiate with Prigozhin about possible joint actions in the future, "handed over its very valuable agent , who is now actively used in the so-called training unit." " They created a special unit, through which those who will later be formed into subversive units are filtered . This is not a simple assault regiment, it is a training unit. We know who is the personnel officer, who is the chief of staff. We just don't know who is the commander of this unit and where it is located," he said. Yagun suggested that this unit is located near the border with Ukraine. "Ghirkin's entry into the territory of Ukraine, even if it is occupied, is not very desirable for them, as there is a fear that he may fall into the field of view of the Ukrainian special services and be either eliminated or captured," the SBU general added. We will remind you that the Ukrainian special services promise a generous reward to whoever captures Ihor Girkin. The SBU offered 100,000 dollars for a living terrorist. Girkin actively criticized the Putin regime and the failures of the Russian army in the war against Ukraine. In particular, he stated that Putin could repeat the fate of the dictators Hussein and Gaddafi in case of defeat in the war. However, in mid-October, the terrorist announced that he had joined the army of the Russian Federation and disappeared from the media field. Later it became known that Yevgeny Prigozhin was forming a volunteer battalion at the "Wagner" base, where Girkin was recruited . On November 17, the District Court of The Hague found Ihor Girkin one of the three guilty of the downing of flight MH17 in Donbas and the death of almost 300 passengers and crew members. The terrorist was sentenced to life imprisonment in absentia. |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 1:08:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chaingun: I was thinking about RU re-using RU uniforms from the dead some many pages back. Bloody holes in the pants, heartwarming. Someone handed out the Soviet style helmets Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chaingun: Originally Posted By Jack67: In WWII, Russian troops waited for someone to drop in order to get a rifle and bandolier. In Ukraine, they have to wait for some to get injured in order to get pants.
Someone handed out the Soviet style helmets If I was Russian I'd be looking for body armor for my legs and my balls, a ton of those guys are getting whacked by drone grenades. |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 1:08:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lightning_P38]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bikedamon: That was my exact thought. The Roosskies are literally swimming in trash it seems, and they don't hesitate to steal. I'd be digging multiple decoy holes too. ETA: I have had this thought, might work against grenade drones, but Mr. 155 don't give a rats ass about decoys. |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 1:14:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Taboot: Won't all their logistical problems just become that much worse as well? Food, ammo, clothing, fuel, etc. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Taboot: Originally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: Originally Posted By sq40: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/49447/7CAB6A34-9184-4698-A207-397174FF6F8F_jpe-2609892.JPG If the 300k they have are ineffective as fuck more is going to do nothing but prolong things and increase the death toll to more horrific levels. I can't help but think that Putin is hoping to throw bodies at Ukraine long enough that the West eventually grows tired of funding the war. That's the only rationale I can see behind further mobilization. They are literal ordinance magnets. They don't have to be supplied for long when they are used as cannon fodder. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/22/2022 1:17:20 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: This is a wake-up call for US arms production. We don’t want to be Russia with shitloads of ancient stocks and equipment that needs complete overhaul. This is the time to clean and clear out everything and ramp up production like we are going to war with china in 2025. We should build up warehouses of shit with 202X production dates… from Rockets to MREs. Why can’t we just say if you invade us, we will nuke a few cities and keep doing it until they leave? |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 1:20:53 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Taboot: Won't all their logistical problems just become that much worse as well? Food, ammo, clothing, fuel, etc. Yes. So what? They are a consumable tool being put in place to be used up until they overwhelm the enemy. They are consumable. So long as they are healthy enough sit in a foxhole of climb onto a truck, their health or comfort doesn't matter at all. If a bunch of them are sick that doesn't matter so long as there are more to replace the sick ones. THEY DON'T MATTER. And beyond that, it is assumed they will loot ukraine for what they need. Americans keep thinking that the abuse and neglect of soldiers is going to be some kind of a problem. It's not. Not yet. And if russian citizens can be convinced there is a threat to their own borders, they will obey no matter how bad it gets. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/22/2022 1:31:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kagetora: An understandable point of view, but while we sit on our hands waiting for Lockheed/Boeing/Whoever to gear up and deliver things, how many more Ukrainians die, how much more time do we give Russia to consolidate? If 18 HIMARS can put Russia on their heels like this, why haven't we sent 100, and kept 300 back for ourselves? Ditto with every other weapon system we own, that I've helped pay for? 75% of our stockpile would seem to be enough to deal with, well...ANYTHING. I can assure you that a certain manufacturer you mentioned, been spooling up ALL SUMMER LONG. They have added a large percentage to their workforce. |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 1:37:06 PM EDT
[#29]
Without being specific there’s lots going on folks don’t know about and there is a ramping up. I see it daily. Lots of swoosh/kaboom products being manufactured.
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Posted: 11/22/2022 1:43:50 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fixin2: Without being specific there’s lots going on folks don’t know about and there is a ramping up. I see it daily. Lots of swoosh/kaboom products being manufactured. There's also a lot of failings and false starts occurring particularly in the subsidiary component manufacturers. It's nowhere near ideal. One of the mentioned manufacturers has been putting out a lot of rosy press releases but has been particularly unimpressive when it comes to delivering. |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 1:44:11 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Russia has always been about sacrificing soldiers until they overwhelm the enemy. The losses in WW2 were so high as to sound totally ridiculous. Cheap soldiers is what russia has most of, so it's what they use. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast: I can't help but think that Putin is hoping to throw bodies at Ukraine long enough that the West eventually grows tired of funding the war. That's the only rationale I can see behind further mobilization. Russia has always been about sacrificing soldiers until they overwhelm the enemy. The losses in WW2 were so high as to sound totally ridiculous. Cheap soldiers is what russia has most of, so it's what they use. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/22/2022 1:48:55 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Estimated guided Russian weapons left as of November 18th. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FiKSjoPWIAAhR7k?format=jpg&name=large Sadly that's still enough to leave 44 million people without energy. 
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Posted: 11/22/2022 1:51:06 PM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 11/22/2022 1:53:22 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryRight bank Kherson getting shelled by left bank. Explosions are heard in the city https://t.me/hueviyherson/29623 Smoke rises, pre-mortars UPD subscribers report that it looks more like "Grady" Any other information? https://t.me/hueviyherson/29624 Explosions in Kherson again! Today the city is under massive artillery fire from the orcs from the left bank of the Dnieper. https://t.me/hueviyherson/29627 Three people were killed in Kherson as a result of shelling of the city by the Russian occupiers |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 1:53:34 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/49447/7CAB6A34-9184-4698-A207-397174FF6F8F_jpe-2609892.JPG If the 300k they have are ineffective as fuck… more is going to do nothing but prolong things and increase the death toll to more horrific levels. Has to happen for the stubborn Russian people realize their leaders got to go if they want to survive as a people. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/22/2022 1:55:40 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Sadly that's still enough to leave 44 million people without energy. Normally the way you would handle these infrastructure attacks is by giving Ukraine the ability to hit back, which serves as a deterrent.not sure how this is ever going to end if Ukraine can never hit stuff in Russia. Even if Russia loses they'll spend the next decade shooting every missile they can build into Ukraine at infrastructure because it's a country of hateful sore losers. |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 2:06:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: My fortune cookie today Seems applicable to the mud season there in Ukraine. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/49447/5BCB2CEC-620B-411D-8877-6D60673E4C6C_jpe-2610011.JPG And it is a mess outside right now. The temperatures stayed high enough to avoid snow this past week. Today we did see a little snow but it became rain after about 30 minutes. |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 2:10:22 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 11/22/2022 2:15:44 PM EDT
[#39]
 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/22/2022 2:31:43 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DASJUDEN: Flying and flare deployment (they have to manually launch flares no automatic system like ours) is on point, looks like they're both Mi-8's so it's not any of the dudes I trained unless they swapped their 24's out. Either way makes me proud. Those rockets on the other hand, where they ended up is anybody's guess. It's just harassment fire at that point. Not sure if it's feasible or not (although after their employment of HARM's on their MIGs I'm optimistic) but if they could figure out a way to strap some Brimstones onto those birds and started doing remote fires with dudes on the ground designating for them they'd be way more effective and could functionally act as a very effective anti-anything on the ground QRF. That's my complaint every time I see that RU/UA rocket toss method. It's just harassment. Granted, I'm not there risking my ass flying over RU manpads etc... I'd rather they just donate the rockets to the drone crew so they could maybe improvise something with the warhead and ACTUALLY hit a target. |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 2:35:01 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: That's my complaint every time I see that RU/UA rocket toss method. It's just harassment. Granted, I'm not there risking my ass flying over RU manpads etc... I'd rather they just donate the rockets to the drone crew so they could maybe improvise something with the warhead and ACTUALLY hit a target. The only reason I can think that they're doing it is as a Morale thing for both sides. For the Russians it's "How the fuck do the Ukrainians still have aircraft up? What the hell is our ADA/air support doing?" For the Ukrainians it's "Oh look our air support is here!" in a way that they can see with way more clarity than a drone. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/22/2022 2:39:29 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gentlemanfarmer: Yeah all the VOG ammo is in very short supply and I’m not sure anyone makes it other than Serbia and Russia or something. 40mm HEDP is used but it’s not as good (compromise round) for Anti personnel as you cutaway shows. They are starting to manufacture stuff 3-D, but it’s a huge army with three lines of supply, one for the territorial guys (whatever they can get) for example the rapira is still a primary anti tank gun in many units. They will have some RPGs and panzerfausts (much loved) and NLAWs but generally those are kept at the company CP and distributed as needed. Grenades are everywhere. Same with NG troops. The regular army pulls better stuff unless they are in Bakhmut where supplies were stored for years, SSO and Airborne has better pickings generally but it’s such a plethora of stuff from so many places it really depends where your at. I can say that Vogs are low low so much so you’ll rarely see gps on Aks or AGLS used anymore. Same with the Hydra 82mm mortar thing . They might capture some and use it till they run out but the Soviet stuff is running low in some cases. Whole depots of that stuff is being accumulated. They make 40mm there but it’s low production, they even have a cool light weight 40mm mk19 AgLS machine gun domestically designed and manufactured but last I heard maybe 100 had been made. That was pre war so I’m not sure now. Same with ARs, they make good ones Zbroyar but not enough to really matter. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gentlemanfarmer: Originally Posted By Dominion21: Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer: Originally Posted By DonKey153: Originally Posted By doc540: In many vids they continue to just hunker after other grenades have fallen around them. I'm thinking many may just be green and terrified into freezing. There's a reason they're dropped from the altitude that they are. VOGs are critical low in UA. Sorry to hear that! I would have hoped Eastern Europe would have had more of those to donate (maybe they will find some?) I’ve posted this before: https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2019-12/1577015719_07-vog-17.jpg This version of the 30mm VOG-17 is meant for a Russian belt fed full auto grenade launcher. The Ukrainians discard the steel case and propelling charge to save weight, and they add 3D printed fins for drone drop duty. But there is another version of the VOG-17: https://s3.envato.com/files/231577366/screenshot001.png Obviously this version isn’t suitable for grenade launcher use, but rather, it meant to be thrown. The Ukrainians also modify and drop both US and Ruskie impact-detonating 40mm grenades, modified for the purpose. Yeah all the VOG ammo is in very short supply and I’m not sure anyone makes it other than Serbia and Russia or something. 40mm HEDP is used but it’s not as good (compromise round) for Anti personnel as you cutaway shows. They are starting to manufacture stuff 3-D, but it’s a huge army with three lines of supply, one for the territorial guys (whatever they can get) for example the rapira is still a primary anti tank gun in many units. They will have some RPGs and panzerfausts (much loved) and NLAWs but generally those are kept at the company CP and distributed as needed. Grenades are everywhere. Same with NG troops. The regular army pulls better stuff unless they are in Bakhmut where supplies were stored for years, SSO and Airborne has better pickings generally but it’s such a plethora of stuff from so many places it really depends where your at. I can say that Vogs are low low so much so you’ll rarely see gps on Aks or AGLS used anymore. Same with the Hydra 82mm mortar thing . They might capture some and use it till they run out but the Soviet stuff is running low in some cases. Whole depots of that stuff is being accumulated. They make 40mm there but it’s low production, they even have a cool light weight 40mm mk19 AgLS machine gun domestically designed and manufactured but last I heard maybe 100 had been made. That was pre war so I’m not sure now. Same with ARs, they make good ones Zbroyar but not enough to really matter. Sent you a box of CR123s; sorry I don’t own any VOG-17s or any other explosives to send over. Joking aside: while the Finns are answering the call for AA ammo for the German Gepards, could other countries in Europe step up by producing a specific drone grenade? I know the Poles have a large domestic arms industry and the Czechs are famous for their explosives industry; the Italians are know for their manufacturing flexibility and speed of production. And the former USSR countries really must do a search for any VOG-17 stockpiles. |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 2:40:46 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 11/22/2022 2:48:25 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Nightmare drones from ELBIT Israel. Neat.
Nightmare is right. Israel asked to be excluded from those tweets. |
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USA
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Posted: 11/22/2022 2:53:37 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Yes. We all agree that Russian's plan for this invasion was pants-on-head retarded. They seriously underestimated the UA and Ukraine in general. And the NATO response. And they seem to have made EVERY tactical and strategic error possible. But, I believe that with the right plan and right leadership, they had the forces necessary to take Kiev. Although certainly not to occupy or hold the whole country. It is possible, even likely that some elements of the Russian military IS learning some lessons from this fiasco and could possibly make some changes. I doubt it but it's possible. Most of what we are seeing now is the remnants of that beaten army. Conscripts, mobiks, drunks and Wagner ex-convicts. It's like looking at the German army of 1945 and saying "they were never a threat to us". I think it would be folly to assume the Russian military will never again be a threat. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer: Russia was a strategic threat. They could have steam rolled the baltics, annexed adjacent territories, integrate their collective industries, that was the plan. They allowed Ukraine to build up a significant military over 8 years and then messed up on the engagement. Had they sent 300k into Kyiv all at once it would have been a different story. Russia, if allowed to rebuild under Putin will be an even bigger threat in 5 years. Mark my words. They are psychos and hold major grudges. Letting up now is akin to letting a bully get of easy then him and his older brother jump you later when your not expecting it. Either you have magical access to a very high level database of stores across the DOD or your speculating based on “conversations” in any event I doubt anyone with said access to restricted databases is going to post it here. If you are and do, that’s your clearance not mine. Buying and producing new ammo stocks is on the US budget and future shopping list. Taiwan isn’t going to be lost or won because of our strategic army stockpiles of 155, 120, gmlrs etc. I’ll worry when I see loads of barges clearing out Yorktown. Yes. We all agree that Russian's plan for this invasion was pants-on-head retarded. They seriously underestimated the UA and Ukraine in general. And the NATO response. And they seem to have made EVERY tactical and strategic error possible. But, I believe that with the right plan and right leadership, they had the forces necessary to take Kiev. Although certainly not to occupy or hold the whole country. It is possible, even likely that some elements of the Russian military IS learning some lessons from this fiasco and could possibly make some changes. I doubt it but it's possible. Most of what we are seeing now is the remnants of that beaten army. Conscripts, mobiks, drunks and Wagner ex-convicts. It's like looking at the German army of 1945 and saying "they were never a threat to us". I think it would be folly to assume the Russian military will never again be a threat. Agree with you: - the Russian military is not dead yet, and they have the potential to rebuild stronger than before, with newfound lessons learned in Ukraine. As for the failure of the 3-day plan, the FSB may be partly to blame. No way to confirm, but the rumor is Putin replaced many of his top generals with his FSB lackeys, and the FSB botched everything they touched. Of course, no one can discount the failure of the military to be prepared. When the time came, many of their systems failed to work. |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 2:54:01 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lorazepam: We talked them into disarming, allowed russia to walk in free and clear after they kicked out the russian puppet govt. Refused to help them with arms, Trump sent limited bits. We neuter them with treaties, refuse to help them rearm after they take it in the ass yet again by russia. Now russia openly states they are going genocidal on Ukraine, violate pretty much any human rights they please, commit war crimes, and genocide, and the beacon of the free world should just mind their own business? It's a fucking shame that none of these people were speaking out when we wasted 20 years, lives and treasure on a bunch of inbred goat fucking retards who hated us and didn't want us there. I took a lot of shit for saying it would be a mistake to go into iraq. Now, a country that wants to emulate western democracy and capitalism, and has the potential to be an economic power in europe, and truly want self determination, and everyone wants to turn their backs. I don't get it. 100% on point here. |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 2:54:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: gentlemanfarmer]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Sent you a box of CR123s; sorry I don’t own any VOG-17s or any other explosives to send over. Joking aside: while the Finns are answering the call for AA ammo for the German Gepards, could other countries in Europe step up by producing a specific drone grenade? I know the Poles have a large domestic arms industry and the Czechs are famous for their explosives industry; the Italians are know for their manufacturing flexibility and speed of production. And the former USSR countries really must do a search for any VOG-17 stockpiles. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer: Originally Posted By Dominion21: Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer: Originally Posted By DonKey153: Originally Posted By doc540: In many vids they continue to just hunker after other grenades have fallen around them. I'm thinking many may just be green and terrified into freezing. There's a reason they're dropped from the altitude that they are. VOGs are critical low in UA. Sorry to hear that! I would have hoped Eastern Europe would have had more of those to donate (maybe they will find some?) I’ve posted this before: https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2019-12/1577015719_07-vog-17.jpg This version of the 30mm VOG-17 is meant for a Russian belt fed full auto grenade launcher. The Ukrainians discard the steel case and propelling charge to save weight, and they add 3D printed fins for drone drop duty. But there is another version of the VOG-17: https://s3.envato.com/files/231577366/screenshot001.png Obviously this version isn’t suitable for grenade launcher use, but rather, it meant to be thrown. The Ukrainians also modify and drop both US and Ruskie impact-detonating 40mm grenades, modified for the purpose. Yeah all the VOG ammo is in very short supply and I’m not sure anyone makes it other than Serbia and Russia or something. 40mm HEDP is used but it’s not as good (compromise round) for Anti personnel as you cutaway shows. They are starting to manufacture stuff 3-D, but it’s a huge army with three lines of supply, one for the territorial guys (whatever they can get) for example the rapira is still a primary anti tank gun in many units. They will have some RPGs and panzerfausts (much loved) and NLAWs but generally those are kept at the company CP and distributed as needed. Grenades are everywhere. Same with NG troops. The regular army pulls better stuff unless they are in Bakhmut where supplies were stored for years, SSO and Airborne has better pickings generally but it’s such a plethora of stuff from so many places it really depends where your at. I can say that Vogs are low low so much so you’ll rarely see gps on Aks or AGLS used anymore. Same with the Hydra 82mm mortar thing . They might capture some and use it till they run out but the Soviet stuff is running low in some cases. Whole depots of that stuff is being accumulated. They make 40mm there but it’s low production, they even have a cool light weight 40mm mk19 AgLS machine gun domestically designed and manufactured but last I heard maybe 100 had been made. That was pre war so I’m not sure now. Same with ARs, they make good ones Zbroyar but not enough to really matter. Sent you a box of CR123s; sorry I don’t own any VOG-17s or any other explosives to send over. Joking aside: while the Finns are answering the call for AA ammo for the German Gepards, could other countries in Europe step up by producing a specific drone grenade? I know the Poles have a large domestic arms industry and the Czechs are famous for their explosives industry; the Italians are know for their manufacturing flexibility and speed of production. And the former USSR countries really must do a search for any VOG-17 stockpiles. On the vogs I’m just not sure. Romania, Poland, or Bulgaria would be a guess. Finland might have stocks. China probably makes them, they make everything but I think the main push is to get NATO stuff in, make separate stuff for drones. It’s really very easy to make your own. 3d printer with correct polymers, square turkey shot, 20-50grams of PETN or something from other ordinance, and an impact or timed fuse which is being done but is the tricky part. I think the grenades are a short term thing from territorial defense groups. The agls are great because they are soo much lighter and provide better anti personnel effects but in the big scheme of things not priority over upgrades to NATO systems which have a long and deep supply reserve. Using 60mm mortars like the French ones but pulling the steel fins and replacing with plastic for weight is another option for some drones. I’ll also add that there are legal things that prevent widespread volunteer assembly lines, that limits ingenuity a bit but it’s not Yemen where everyone can get a hold of the above items. Some commanders are more flexible in experiments others are dusted off Soviet apparchicks scared of repercussions |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 2:56:00 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/49447/7CAB6A34-9184-4698-A207-397174FF6F8F_jpe-2609892.JPG If the 300k they have are ineffective as fuck… more is going to do nothing but prolong things and increase the death toll to more horrific levels. Putin's response: It's not Putin's war, it's RUSSIA'S war. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/22/2022 3:11:58 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Sent you a box of CR123s; sorry I don’t own any VOG-17s or any other explosives to send over. Joking aside: while the Finns are answering the call for AA ammo for the German Gepards, could other countries in Europe step up by producing a specific drone grenade? I know the Poles have a large domestic arms industry and the Czechs are famous for their explosives industry; the Italians are know for their manufacturing flexibility and speed of production. And the former USSR countries really must do a search for any VOG-17 stockpiles. It will be hard to beat those VOG's. There long slender shape with 360 frag pattern. Maybe some of those Dutch mini-grenades? Dropped 3-4 at a time? |
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Posted: 11/22/2022 3:13:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: gentlemanfarmer]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: It will be hard to beat those VOG's. There long slender shape with 360 frag pattern. Maybe some of those Dutch mini-grenades? Dropped 3-4 at a time? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By Dominion21: Sent you a box of CR123s; sorry I don’t own any VOG-17s or any other explosives to send over. Joking aside: while the Finns are answering the call for AA ammo for the German Gepards, could other countries in Europe step up by producing a specific drone grenade? I know the Poles have a large domestic arms industry and the Czechs are famous for their explosives industry; the Italians are know for their manufacturing flexibility and speed of production. And the former USSR countries really must do a search for any VOG-17 stockpiles. It will be hard to beat those VOG's. There long slender shape with 360 frag pattern. Maybe some of those Dutch mini-grenades? Dropped 3-4 at a time? I may be wrong but I think nammo or Ruag bought the mini grenade design or are the main producer of small cool grenades and Ruag won’t ship to Ukraine. Swiss only sell to Russia apparently. One of the big issues that’s come out of this war is the EU ownership web. Swiss company made all over Europe won’t sell to Ukraine, god forbid if the Hungarians owned stocks in any of the major factories, Ukraine would be screwed. |
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