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Posted: 10/27/2021 8:27:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: The_Beer_Slayer]
This is now the active "shit News links, thanks to BerettaGuy: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: LINKS TO UKRAINIAN NEWS SOURCES IN ENGLISH Kyiv Post Ukrainian News UKRInform EUROMAIDEN PRESS New Voice of Ukraine Kyiv Independent Ukraine World InterFax Ukraine UATV Ukrainian Journal Official Website of the President of Ukraine Ukrainian Ministry of Defense Save these links. I can't post all the headlines like I've done in the past - too much news and too often. Please @ me with additional stuff to be added here. I don't currently have time to properly curate this thread otherwise. New news link c/o berettaguy: Ukrainian Pravda https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/ Stop fake, anti - disinformation site: https://www.stopfake.org/en/main/ |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 5:55:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest]
[#1]
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Posted: 9/21/2022 5:56:30 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: That was the number a couple months ago. I saw some pics from after the push. UA forces were/are finding skeletal remains of Russian troops in the former Russian positions. Their buddies literally left them to rot. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By Circuits: Originally Posted By 1Andy2: Holy shit, they're piled in the bed like so many dead animals That was the number a couple months ago. I saw some pics from after the push. UA forces were/are finding skeletal remains of Russian troops in the former Russian positions. Their buddies literally left them to rot. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:02:44 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:05:43 PM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:06:05 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Russia agrees, 1 Ukrainian soldier is worth 11 Russian soldiers. 
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:09:14 PM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:09:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdNFBe8aAAA7RH9?format=jpg&name=900x900 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdNFBVBakAEayCE?format=jpg&name=small |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:15:04 PM EDT
[#8]
The timing of the prisoner release was not coincidental.
Putin had to mobilize to try to stop the bleeding before he loses all territory in Ukraine (including Crimea). The mobilization speech was for Russians- he had to sell it as a threat to Russia, and used the nuclear threat as proof that the danger was real. At the same time, Western prisoners are released. This is a contrary action to his speech of escalation. I believe that this action was a deliberate message to the west. He countered his escalation speech with a de-escalation action. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:15:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdM754BaEAEOMsw?format=jpg&name=medium 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:15:47 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: F-16s aren’t going to establish the kind of air superiority needed to precision bombing by F-16s. Low level strike missions are more like it. Missiles are also airpower. Only nuclear weapons are strategic weapons. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By anono: Wut? Air superiority is the primary tenant of strategic warfare since maybe the end of WWI. Sure, guided missiles have changed the game a little, but you need a poop-ton of intel for those strikes, whereas a plane can simply just blow shit up on the spot. A primary reason for the RU attack not being effective is that they haven't been able to gain the air. If this were the US, we'd be taking out 10k UA ground troops a day by this point. (Ok, maybe hyperbole, but close). The Russian's AF just sucks apparently. F-16s aren’t going to establish the kind of air superiority needed to precision bombing by F-16s. Low level strike missions are more like it. Missiles are also airpower. Only nuclear weapons are strategic weapons. In US early Cold War doctrine, you'd be absolutely correct. Nukes are the only weapons that are exclusively Strategic Weapons. However, realistically, a LOT of weapons, to include a small element of Infantry-equipped soldiers in the right set of circumstances (such as a ground interdiction of an enemy's strategic capabilities or a leadership decapitation strike), not to mention purely conventional Air and Naval forces, can be utilized to accomplish Strategic/National goals and missions. It all comes down to Strategic mission, opportunity, and employment. Strategic does not always equal nuclear. |
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CHN
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:15:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Did someone say MBS helped set up the deal?
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:16:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Good news about Denis Propokenko being freed!!!!! ( and all the other leaders & prisoners) I thought for sure he would have been murdered after all the trouble he gave the Orcs at Azovstal.
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CHN
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:19:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By weptek911: Good news about Denis Propokenko being freed!!!!! ( and all the other leaders & prisoners) I thought for sure he would have been murdered after all the trouble he gave the Orcs at Azovstal. The Orc goal was to eliminate Nazis and their evidence of Nazis is Azov imagery. So they are letting the head Nazis go, or was it just a lie all along? |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:21:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CS223: Not even the decency to give them clean clothes. You can tell his arm is badly atrophied, I hope they can regain him some normal function. That was from inside Azovstal, though I bet it was a tossup. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:24:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonS: Did someone say MBS helped set up the deal? Yep, some prisoners are being swapped via SA. Apparently MBS found a way to try to profit from this. Or maybe Rus tossed him the job to make him look good, in exchange for some back-channel torture-technology transfer? |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:25:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#16]
Prokopenko looks rough.
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:25:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: They're not exactly treating the 200s with reverence and care. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/48680/photo_2022-09-19_14-59-06_jpg-2534372.JPG Hypothetically, let’s say I had a detail recover the remains of a hundred KIA GIs in Normandy or the Bulge. What do you think that looks like? |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:30:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonS: The Orc goal was to eliminate Nazis and their evidence of Nazis is Azov imagery. So they are letting the head Nazis go, or was it just a lie all along?  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:32:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: I just can't see where throwing an additional 300,000 unmotivated mobilization reservists at this problem is going to help Russia. Ukraine already has the manpower to equal this. And by the time the Russian reservists are trained up, equipped and make it to the front, Ukraine will likely exceed those numbers by a significant margin. Keeping in mind the 3-1 ratio needed by the attacking force to achieve superiority over the defender, Russia is going to come up short again, just as they did in Feb/Mar. Meanwhile, Russia is low on ammo. They are having to beg North Korea for 50 year old artillery and mortar rounds. The bulk of their useful tanks have already been damaged, destroyed or captured in Ukraine. Their logistics are a mess. And they still have no answer for HIMARS which can sit back and devastate their rear areas. IMHO, all Putin is going to gain by doing this is weakening Russia and destroying its military capabilities even more, possibly achieving total destruction that would take decades to recover from. What a blunder this whole shit show was. And they just keep doubling down on it. It isn’t logical based on what we know but what does Putin know? He is getting increasingly desperate and he likely isn’t getting good info. He has spent years building up an inner circle totally dépendant on him and they are likely telling him the things they think he wants to hear. Who is going to give him the bad news with so many of his inner circle achieving terminal velocity by falling from great heights? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:33:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher15: I wouldnt doubt if the real number of Russian KIA is 60k+ Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher15: Originally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By Circuits: Originally Posted By 1Andy2: Holy shit, they're piled in the bed like so many dead animals That was the number a couple months ago. I saw some pics from after the push. UA forces were/are finding skeletal remains of Russian troops in the former Russian positions. Their buddies literally left them to rot. Probably a good guess. I doubt the Ukrainians, as good as their casualty info for KIA seems to be, has any way to accurately track Orc non-combatant casualties. When Ivan Conscriptovich inadvertently shoots his squad leader while setting up a machine gun position, or 55-year-old Dmitry Volunteersky has a heart attack, those tend to get lost in the noise. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:37:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By anono: I think you are confusing having planes in the air to "air superiority." F16s with some intel from wherever and support would be a game changer in this conflict. And F16s can definitely do precision low level strikes, even if brrrt is cooler on video. Saying "only nuclear weapons are strategic..." is umm, well, CoC. No, I’m familiar what the term means. It’s not Air Supremacy. Achieving the ability to operate over Russian lines is useful but for instance the US spends more by half again on that ability than we spend on all ground forces together, and that’s not a wise choice for ukraine as is doesn’t make their war effort 2.5x as effective. They will not be able to fly F-16s at 10k feet and drop JDAMS on tanks anyway. I said only nuclear weapons are strategic weapons because only nuclear bombing is strategic bombing or can achieve strategic results unto itself. Every other system is a tactical or operational level effect that as the whole combining other parts produces victory. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:37:13 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: He was making a joke about in the 80s and 90s, the sex life of zoo pandas was a media frenzy of a nauseating level. Lots wouldn’t reproduce. I did get the joke but it wouldn’t make sense if you didn’t recall that. ETA: oh yeah, and also riffed on in FC. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By jungatheart: Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott: I felt like putting a bullet in the head of every panda that wouldn’t fuck to save its species. WTF? He was making a joke about in the 80s and 90s, the sex life of zoo pandas was a media frenzy of a nauseating level. Lots wouldn’t reproduce. I did get the joke but it wouldn’t make sense if you didn’t recall that. ETA: oh yeah, and also riffed on in FC. Thanks |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:38:31 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By frankiebagadonuts: The timing of the prisoner release was not coincidental. Putin had to mobilize to try to stop the bleeding before he loses all territory in Ukraine (including Crimea). The mobilization speech was for Russians- he had to sell it as a threat to Russia, and used the nuclear threat as proof that the danger was real. At the same time, Western prisoners are released. This is a contrary action to his speech of escalation. I believe that this action was a deliberate message to the west. He countered his escalation speech with a de-escalation action. That actually does make a great deal of sense. And that would be a very Russian way of going about it. Heck, he even threw Ukraine a bone by releasing some of their top guys. The only reasonable explanation for releasing all of these people today is that Putin is trying to build some goodwill for negotiations. This action was definitely in stark contrast to his more fiery speech early this morning. And as they say, actions speak louder than words. |
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CHN
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:39:21 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Yep, some prisoners are being swapped via SA. Apparently MBS found a way to try to profit from this. Or maybe Rus tossed him the job to make him look good, in exchange for some back-channel torture-technology transfer? Well, he's letting women drive and own guns, and he also got rid of a WaPo "reporter", so he's not all bad. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:39:22 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stgdz: Don't tell the US airforce that! I would happily disband the Air Force and split it between the Navy and Army, but a modest reform in the meantime would be to put the services back under the same Secretary of War. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:40:59 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: In US early Cold War doctrine, you'd be absolutely correct. Nukes are the only weapons that are exclusively Strategic Weapons. However, realistically, a LOT of weapons, to include a small element of Infantry-equipped soldiers in the right set of circumstances (such as a ground interdiction of an enemy's strategic capabilities or a leadership decapitation strike), not to mention purely conventional Air and Naval forces, can be utilized to accomplish Strategic/National goals and missions. It all comes down to Strategic mission, opportunity, and employment. Strategic does not always equal nuclear. Strategic airpower is airpower that can collapse national infrastructure or will. That’s not to say that other operations and weapons won’t have an effect, but airpower needs to deliver what’s promised or make new promises. The only weapon that can produce victory on its own is a nuclear weapon. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:43:04 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: That actually does make a great deal of sense. And that would be a very Russian way of going about it. Heck, he even threw Ukraine a bone by releasing some of their top guys. The only reasonable explanation for releasing all of these people today is that Putin is trying to build some goodwill for negotiations. This action was definitely in stark contrast to his more fiery speech early this morning. And as they say, actions speak louder than words. Putins strongest retirement option is a retirement to Saudi Arabia. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:44:52 PM EDT
[#28]
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:49:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Saltwater-Hillbilly]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Strategic airpower is airpower that can collapse national infrastructure or will. That’s not to say that other operations and weapons won’t have an effect, but airpower needs to deliver what’s promised or make new promises. The only weapon that can produce victory on its own is a nuclear weapon. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: In US early Cold War doctrine, you'd be absolutely correct. Nukes are the only weapons that are exclusively Strategic Weapons. However, realistically, a LOT of weapons, to include a small element of Infantry-equipped soldiers in the right set of circumstances (such as a ground interdiction of an enemy's strategic capabilities or a leadership decapitation strike), not to mention purely conventional Air and Naval forces, can be utilized to accomplish Strategic/National goals and missions. It all comes down to Strategic mission, opportunity, and employment. Strategic does not always equal nuclear. Strategic airpower is airpower that can collapse national infrastructure or will. That’s not to say that other operations and weapons won’t have an effect, but airpower needs to deliver what’s promised or make new promises. The only weapon that can produce victory on its own is a nuclear weapon. OMG, we're having a "Doctrine NAZI" discussion!  Does this mean we're going to be targeted by the Russians? 
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:51:48 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By anono: Air sup would have changed this war for either side. What on Earth are you both talking about? If the UA had a 4gen fighter, they'd be into Moscow by now. Offense is still a good defense. We in the West just are being cautious to not escalate things. If we wanted to, most of Russia would be burning now without a single nuke. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By anono: Originally Posted By Bassgasm: I think this take is good in the context of this war. As long as Ukraine has ISR sufficient to target their missile strikes, and as long as they have the ability to defend the airspace above them, they're in a good position. The value of getting the Ukrainians set up with F-16s or whatever is strategically questionable. Air sup would have changed this war for either side. What on Earth are you both talking about? If the UA had a 4gen fighter, they'd be into Moscow by now. Offense is still a good defense. We in the West just are being cautious to not escalate things. If we wanted to, most of Russia would be burning now without a single nuke.  That's not even an objective in this war. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:52:43 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise: Uhh no? 38 launchers could fit 39 times a year not day...or for 39 days straight which they probably have Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise: Originally Posted By Capta: We can make 1500 pods per year. Ukraine has 38 effective pod equivalents. Each and every pod could fire 39 times per day and not draw down existing US inventory. Given operational needs, I doubt Ukraine can fire even a quarter of that, and look at the effects. Uhh no? 38 launchers could fit 39 times a year not day...or for 39 days straight which they probably have I was in a hurry and math isnt my strong suit!😳 |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:53:34 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdNZksuXwAA4Ikj?format=jpg&name=900x900 Happy to be proven wrong! |
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CHN
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:55:06 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Putins strongest retirement option is a retirement to Saudi Arabia. He's much more aligned with Iran and Syria. Not sure SA would be such a good choice. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 6:55:50 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
They didn't leave them to die. They went to get help! 
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Posted: 9/21/2022 7:02:20 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonS: He's much more aligned with Iran and Syria. Not sure SA would be such a good choice. KSA has done this before, and they have the legitimacy and allies to prevent the US from just bombing him. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 7:02:33 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: He’s Finnish, they have every reason to take the Russians more seriously than we do. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By SpaceGuy: Looking at how its worded, and the info he presented, its likely a compromised AR15.com account thats being used by the Ruskies. He’s Finnish, they have every reason to take the Russians more seriously than we do. Who says he’s Finnish? |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 7:07:13 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: Hypothetically, let’s say I had a detail recover the remains of a hundred KIA GIs in Normandy or the Bulge. What do you think that looks like? If out in the actual field where they died, they'd go in body bags or expedient disposable coffins. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 7:07:41 PM EDT
[#38]
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GA, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2022 7:09:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Holy shit, they're piled in the bed like so many dead animals Likely packed by the recently formed penal brigades |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 7:11:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Swampgrass: Is it wrong I want to see those trucks enter a minefield? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Swampgrass: Originally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
They're not exactly treating the 200s with reverence and care. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/48680/photo_2022-09-19_14-59-06_jpg-2534372.JPG Is it wrong I want to see those trucks enter a minefield? PPV it, and I'd watch it!
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Posted: 9/21/2022 7:14:12 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Who says he’s Finnish? His profile. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 7:14:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#42]
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Posted: 9/21/2022 7:19:19 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: I think the Russians are holding out for this winter to sue for peace. Putin, if he's smart, will realize that going into this winter the territory that Russia holds is about as much as it's going to hold, ever inside Ukraine. The winter and absence of Russian natural gas in Central Europe will put pressure on NATO. The poor harvest in Ukraine and of course the destruction of buildings within it will make this winter very hard for the people of Ukraine. Putin will probably see this winter, January or February time frame as the most opportune time to approach Ukraine/NATO with a peace deal that allows him to get recognition of the sovereignty of the Donetsk People's Republic and Crimea. If Putin can "win" the freedom of the DPR he can take that to his people and say "I protected ethnic Russians, destroyed the NAZI Azov Battalion, and weakened Ukraine so that it will not present a threat to Russia (arguable, but he could sell that domestically). " Putin could admit that issues of corruption that he was not aware of had come to light during the conflict and did hamper some of Russia's goals, but argue that the overall campaign was still a success and discovery of those issues as it so happens were necessary to the future strength of Russia. Europe’s gas reserves are 90% full despite the cutoff. The question is no longer availability, but price. Therefore Putin doesn’t have nearly the leverage over Europe that some think he has. Also, the continued belief among some people that Europe will happily sell out Ukraine (and their own survival) to go back on the Russian gas teat is, to put it mildly, incorrect. Listen to some German and French english-language news on Youtube, or read some European sources. They aren’t going back. Russia is done as an energy supplier to Europe. Ukraine may or may not’ve had a good wheat harvest, but as a major exporter they aren’t going to starve. They will have plenty to eat and their foreign sales will take a hit. The most likely course is continued destruction of Ukrainian power and water infrastructure, which will in fact make it hard on Ukrainians. It will also further convince the west (if that is possible) that Russia is a barbaric, evil empire that has to be stopped. The idea that terror tactics are going to drive either the west or Ukraine to the table is fantasy. If anything, the opposite is happening. No one in Europe believes that Russia can be reasonable or trusted anymore, and Ukraine is never going to surrender territory. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 7:22:30 PM EDT
[#44]
Zelenskyy addresses the UN,
 Ukraine War: 'We didn't provoke this war' - President Zelenskyy |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 7:24:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Will the Azov commanders return to the field?
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SC, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2022 7:26:21 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Putins strongest retirement option is a retirement to Saudi Arabia. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By Charging_Handle: That actually does make a great deal of sense. And that would be a very Russian way of going about it. Heck, he even threw Ukraine a bone by releasing some of their top guys. The only reasonable explanation for releasing all of these people today is that Putin is trying to build some goodwill for negotiations. This action was definitely in stark contrast to his more fiery speech early this morning. And as they say, actions speak louder than words. Putins strongest retirement option is a retirement to Saudi Arabia. We set the example that we pursue dictators if they loss power. We chose poorly. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 7:26:40 PM EDT
[#47]
American and British POWs also released.
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CHN
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Posted: 9/21/2022 7:29:24 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: KSA has done this before, and they have the legitimacy and allies to prevent the US from just bombing him. I can't see us just bombing Putin. We would want to extradite for war crimes, perhaps. I just don't see why Putin would feel secure there, due to his close alignment with Syria and Iran, along with the fact that MBS is attempting secular reforms and might throw Putin under the bus. I don't see any great place for Putin to run, TBH. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 7:46:33 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonS: I can't see us just bombing Putin. We would want to extradite for war crimes, perhaps. I just don't see why Putin would feel secure there, due to his close alignment with Syria and Iran, along with the fact that MBS is attempting secular reforms and might throw Putin under the bus. I don't see any great place for Putin to run, TBH. I would offer him an estate in the United States, which he could never leave. |
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Posted: 9/21/2022 7:50:57 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Walleyeguy24: You mat be correct, but do you think any of the 10s of thousands of equipment in storage is worth a shit? The stuff they sent to the front lines on the race to Kyiv didn't even work, and that should have been some of their best shit on their main objective. Now we expect tanks and gear sitting for 30 years to be maintained and actually work? We have learned stuff in storage does NOT equal usable equipment. I do not believe Russia "saved" any of their best gear except maybe a few of their actually gen 5 fighters. I think Russia hasn't used their 5th Gen fighters in Ukraine because they know they will be shot down... because they know they aren't the least bit stealthy. |
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