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Posted: 1/21/2021 10:29:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:33:42 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
LOL..... I knew this was going to happen.


‘A Total Failure’: The Proud Boys Now Mock Trump - NYT

Members of the far-right group, who were among Donald Trump’s staunchest fans, are calling him “weak” as more of them were charged for storming the U.S. Capitol.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/01/20/business/20noproudboys1/merlin_177876615_05425578-3e4c-4bba-a564-a70bf0a8df69-jumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp

By Sheera Frenkel and Alan Feuer
Jan. 20, 2021

After the presidential election last year, the Proud Boys, a far-right group, declared its undying loyalty to President Trump.

In a Nov. 8 post in a private channel of the messaging app Telegram, the group urged its followers to attend protests against an election that it said had been fraudulently stolen from Mr. Trump. “Hail Emperor Trump,” the Proud Boys wrote.

But by this week, the group’s attitude toward Mr. Trump had changed. “Trump will go down as a total failure,” the Proud Boys said in the same Telegram channel on Monday.

As Mr. Trump departed the White House on Wednesday, the Proud Boys, once among his staunchest supporters, have also started leaving his side. In dozens of conversations on social media sites like Gab and Telegram, members of the group have begun calling Mr. Trump a “shill” and “extraordinarily weak,” according to messages reviewed by The New York Times. They have also urged supporters to stop attending rallies and protests held for Mr. Trump or the Republican Party.

The comments are a startling turn for the Proud Boys, which for years had backed Mr. Trump and promoted political violence. Led by Enrique Tarrio, many of its thousands of members were such die-hard fans of Mr. Trump that they offered to serve as his private militia and celebrated after he told them in a presidential debate last year to “stand back and stand by.” On Jan. 6, some Proud Boys members stormed the U.S. Capitol.

But since then, discontent with Mr. Trump, who later condemned the violence, has boiled over. On social media, Proud Boys participants have complained about his willingness to leave office and said his disavowal of the Capitol rampage was an act of betrayal. And Mr. Trump, cut off on Facebook and Twitter, has been unable to talk directly to them to soothe their concerns or issue new rallying cries.

The Proud Boys’ anger toward Mr. Trump has heightened after he did nothing to help those in the group who face legal action for the Capitol violence. On Wednesday, a Proud Boy leader, Joseph Biggs, 37, was arrested in Florida and charged with unlawful entry and corruptly obstructing an official proceeding in the riot. At least four other members of the group also face charges stemming from the attack.

“When Trump told them that if he left office, America would fall into an abyss, they believed him,” Arieh Kovler, a political consultant and independent researcher in Israel who studies the far right, said of the Proud Boys. “Now that he has left office, they believe he has both surrendered and failed to do his patriotic duty.”

The shift raises questions about the strength of the support for Mr. Trump and suggests that pockets of his fan base are fracturing. Many of Mr. Trump’s fans still falsely believe he was deprived of office, but other far-right groups such as the Oath Keepers, America First and the Three Percenters have also started criticizing him in private Telegram channels, according to a review of messages.

Last week, Nicholas Fuentes, the leader of America First, wrote in his Telegram channel that Mr. Trump’s response to the Capitol rampage was “very weak and flaccid” and added, “Not the same guy that ran in 2015.”

On Wednesday, the Proud Boys Telegram group welcomed President Biden to office. “At least the incoming administration is honest about their intentions,” the group wrote.

Mr. Kovler said the activity showed that groups that had coalesced around Mr. Trump were now trying to figure out their future direction. By losing his ability to post on Twitter and Facebook, Mr. Trump had also become less useful to the far-right groups, who counted on him to raise their profile on a national stage, Mr. Kovler said.

Mr. Tarrio, the leader of the Proud Boys, could not be reached for comment. A spokesman for Mr. Trump did not respond to a request for comment.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/01/20/business/20noproudboys2/merlin_181174536_c8301f8d-5a8e-4ac8-869e-84f45a18a977-jumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp

Enrique Tarrio, leader of the Proud Boys, led a contingent of the group in Washington last month. Credit...Victor J. Blue for The New York Times

The Proud Boys were founded in 2016 as a club for men by Gavin McInnes, who also was a founder of the online publication Vice. Describing themselves as “Western chauvinists,” the group attracted people who appeared eager to engage in violence and who frequently espoused anti-Muslim and anti-Semitic views. The group had supported Mr. Trump since he assumed office.

The change toward Mr. Trump happened slowly. After November’s election, the group’s private Telegram channels, Gab pages and posts on the alternative social networking site Parler were filled with calls to keep the faith with the president. Many Proud Boys, echoing Mr. Trump’s falsehoods, said the election had been rigged, according to a review of messages.

The Proud Boys urged their members to attend “Stop the Steal” rallies. One Nov. 23 message on a Proud Boys Telegram page read, “No Trump, no peace.” The message linked to information about a rally in front of the governor’s home in Georgia.

As Mr. Trump’s legal team battled the election result with lawsuits, the Proud Boys closely followed the court cases and appeals in different states, posting frequent links in their Telegram channels to news reports.

But when Mr. Trump’s legal efforts failed, the Proud Boys called for him on social media to use his presidential powers to stay in office. Some urged him to declare martial law or take control by force. In the last two weeks of December, they pushed Mr. Trump in their protests and on social media to “Cross the Rubicon.”

“They wanted to arm themselves and start a second civil war and take down the government on Trump’s behalf,” said Marc-André Argentino, a researcher who studies the far right and a Ph.D. candidate at Concordia University. “But ultimately, he couldn’t be the authoritarian they wanted him to be.”

Then came the week of the Capitol storming. On Jan. 4, Mr. Tarrio was arrested by the Metropolitan Police on suspicion of burning a Black Lives Matter banner torn from a Black church in Washington. He was thrown out of the city by a judge the next day.

But nearly 100 other Proud Boys, who had been encouraged by leaders like Mr. Biggs, remained in Washington. According to court papers, Mr. Biggs told members to eschew their typical black-and-yellow polo shirts and instead go “incognito” and move about the city in “smaller teams.”

On the day of the riot, Mr. Biggs was captured in a video marching with a large group of Proud Boys toward the Capitol, chanting slogans like, “Whose streets? Our streets.”

Though prosecutors said Mr. Biggs was not among the first to break into the Capitol, they said he admitted to entering the building for a brief time. They also said he appeared to wear a walkie-talkie-style device on his chest, suggesting he was communicating with others during the incursion.

In an interview with The Times hours after the attack, Mr. Biggs said he and other Proud Boys arrived at the Capitol complex around 1 p.m. when the crowd in front of them surged and the mood grew violent. “It literally happened in seconds,” he said.

Prosecutors have also charged Dominic Pezzola, a Proud Boy from Rochester and a former Marine; Nicholas Ochs, founder of the Proud Boys’ Hawaii chapter; and Nicholas DeCarlo, who runs a news outfit called Murder the Media, which is associated with the group.

After the violence, the Proud Boys expected Mr. Trump — who had earlier told his supporters to “fight much harder” against “bad people” — to champion the mob, according to their social media messages. Instead, Mr. Trump began distancing himself from his remarks and released a video on Jan. 8 denouncing the violence.

The disappointment was immediately palpable. One Proud Boys Telegram channel posted: “It really is important for us all to see how much Trump betrayed his supporters this week. We are nationalists 1st and always. Trump was just a man and as it turns out an extraordinarily weak one at the end.”

Some Proud Boys became furious that Mr. Trump, who was impeached for inciting the insurrection, did not appear interested in issuing presidential pardons for their members who were arrested. In a Telegram post on Friday, they accused Mr. Trump of “instigating” the events at the Capitol, adding that he then “washed his hands of it.”

“They thought they had his support and that, ultimately, Trump would come through for them, including with a pardon if they should need it,” said Jared Holt, a visiting research fellow at the Atlantic Council’s DFR Lab. “Now they realize they went too far in the riots.”

Some Proud Boys now say in online posts that the group should “go dark” and retreat from political life by cutting its affiliation to any political party. They are encouraging one another to focus their energies on secessionist movements and local protests.

“To all demoralized Trump supporters: There is hope,” read one message in a Proud Boys Telegram channel on Wednesday. “There is an alternative. Abandon the GOP and the Dems.”
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It is almost as if these "researchers" get all their data points from fake news op-eds instead of calling up members of the group and actually talking with them.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:35:50 AM EDT
[#2]
I don't know if it is fair to blame Trump. He was literally one man against an army of tyrants and was defeated in the end.

Yes we all had his back but what can we do other than vote and voice our opinion (not anymore)?

Could be wrong and he was acting the whole time but I don't think so.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:35:59 AM EDT
[#3]


Useful idiots coming to the realization they're now useless.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:36:30 AM EDT
[#4]
Antifa, Proud Boys.. it's the same fringe fighters with a decent portion of alphabet agencies mixed in.

Pretty sad..
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:37:07 AM EDT
[#5]
That story is half fabricated, half propaganda. Journalists are so far inside their bubble, they can’t comprehend anything outside.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:38:18 AM EDT
[#6]
Only cowards blame President Trump for their shortcomings!
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:40:58 AM EDT
[#7]
I'm just here to watch all the confirmation bias.  

I'm sure the facts as reported in this article are as pure and true as the first snow.

ETA: I mean its the NT times, they'd never twist and spin things to try and divide the right.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:42:23 AM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:42:36 AM EDT
[#9]
What is stopping them from continuing to Tard Joust with the Commies?
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:43:54 AM EDT
[#10]
Fair warning: I didn't read the article, just the headline.  I refuse to read leftist news anymore.

But, the headline isn't wrong.  Trump abandoned those Patriots at the capital, including whatever Proud Boys were there.  He called for folks to be there, and then turned his back, slunk away, and then denounced them.  I didn't hear a fucking word from him about Ashli either.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:44:15 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Useful idiots coming to the realization they're now useless.
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These must be giddy days for you--what with your girl getting elected and all.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:45:40 AM EDT
[#12]
I mean are they really that wrong? If the leader of your perceived group says that an election was stolen, our republic is being threatened, and to come to Washington to stop the steal and that things will be wild and then he throws you under the bus, disappears from public view and then condemns your presence and actions I think they have a valid point.

Then again I don’t believe in peace and unity with commies.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:46:02 AM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
What is stopping them from continuing to Tard Joust with the Commies?
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Getting blamed for the whole thing?
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:46:54 AM EDT
[#14]
President Trump is a Never_Trumper to 30% of GD..
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:46:56 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That story is half fabricated, half propaganda. Journalists are so far inside their bubble, they can’t comprehend anything outside.
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Yep. Spot on.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:47:32 AM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:47:45 AM EDT
[#17]
I just have to say that they aren't wrong. People supported Trump and came to support him, some of them now lost everything and Trump didn't want anything to do with them. That's a real dick move if you ask me, he has no responsibility whatsoever, if you aren't ready to cross the rubicon then do not call for the support of the people.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:48:20 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Getting blamed for the whole thing?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
What is stopping them from continuing to Tard Joust with the Commies?

Getting blamed for the whole thing?

So, same as it always was?
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:53:13 AM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It is almost as if these "researchers" get all their data points from fake news op-eds instead of calling up members of the group and actually talking with them.
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I expect nothing less from the media.......
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:53:24 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Antifa, Proud Boys.. it's the same fringe fighters with a decent portion of alphabet agencies mixed in.

Pretty sad..
View Quote

Yup. They are all idiots.  What the hell is the point of seeking out street fights?  At least the undercover feds are doing it for a paycheck and book deal.

These aren’t guys protecting their property from a rampaging mob, they fly around the country looking to fistfight others for entertainment.

Because they sometimes agree with some of my political views doesn’t mean they speak for me.

Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:54:36 AM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:
Holy propaganda.
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Yep.

But just look at the posts here, people eat it up.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:54:47 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I don't know if it is fair to blame Trump. He was literally one man against an army of tyrants and was defeated in the end.

Yes we all had his back but what can we do other than vote and voice our opinion (not anymore)?

Could be wrong and he was acting the whole time but I don't think so.
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BS

He had 4 years and didnt do shit. Ok, judges. Great.

He didnt fire Sessions for 1.5 years

He didnt fire comey fast enough.

He didnt fire Mueller

He kept Wray

He kept Haspal

He let Bar and Durham hide the FBI treason

He didnt order Hillary investigated.

No one was arrested

He didnt pardon anyone of worth

He didnt fire Fauci

He didnt declassify any documents of worth

He was a waste of time that gave us Xiden.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:55:15 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Fair warning: I didn't read the article, just the headline.  I refuse to read leftist news anymore.

But, the headline isn't wrong.  Trump abandoned those Patriots at the capital, including whatever Proud Boys were there.  He called for folks to be there, and then turned his back, slunk away, and then denounced them.  I didn't hear a fucking word from him about Ashli either.
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Pretty much. Trump spent a month telling the American people that their vote was stolen, and that their rights were being taken from them by corrupt politicians. He called on the people to  gather in Washington to protest this crime. Thousands of people did just that, many travelling thousands of miles to stand up for our rights.

Trump stabbed them in the back, and in the process he stabbed all of us in the back as well.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:55:22 AM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Fair warning: I didn't read the article, just the headline.  I refuse to read leftist news anymore.

But, the headline isn't wrong.  Trump abandoned those Patriots at the capital, including whatever Proud Boys were there.  He called for folks to be there, and then turned his back, slunk away, and then denounced them.  I didn't hear a fucking word from him about Ashli either.
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Didn't even demand her murderer's name be made public.

I understand Trump's position; by that point there was no purpose to further agitation, it was over, and he probably thought that giving any consideration to those who turned out that day would embolden further 'unrest' (it barely qualified as unrest, the average 7-11 flash-rob is more violent).  But that position will rightly piss off those present since it is a sudden reversal.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:56:24 AM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:
President Trump is a Never_Trumper to 30% of GD..
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He did sabotage the Trump administration quite a bit over the past several years.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:56:32 AM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Fair warning: I didn't read the article, just the headline.  I refuse to read leftist news anymore.

But, the headline isn't wrong.  Trump abandoned those Patriots at the capital, including whatever Proud Boys were there.  He called for folks to be there, and then turned his back, slunk away, and then denounced them.  I didn't hear a fucking word from him about Ashli either.
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Fucking this.
 
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:57:06 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Fair warning: I didn't read the article, just the headline.  I refuse to read leftist news anymore.

But, the headline isn't wrong.  Trump abandoned those Patriots at the capital, including whatever Proud Boys were there.  He called for folks to be there, and then turned his back, slunk away, and then denounced them.  I didn't hear a fucking word from him about Ashli either.
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He did not tell people to storm the Capitol and break windows.

Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:57:59 AM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:58:03 AM EDT
[#29]
is this day 1 of what, ex-presidential tds?


edit - and  yes, I still support Trump, so mock me if you want to
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:58:27 AM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:58:41 AM EDT
[#31]
“To all demoralized Trump supporters: There is hope,” read one message in a Proud Boys Telegram channel on Wednesday. “There is an alternative. Abandon the GOP and the Dems.”

Sounds like Antifa. Maybe the end of the Kabuki theater on the west coast.

Choose your flavor of socialism. IF there's one thing they all seem to have in common, it is that.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:59:04 AM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:
Fucking this.
 
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fair warning: I didn't read the article, just the headline.  I refuse to read leftist news anymore.

But, the headline isn't wrong.  Trump abandoned those Patriots at the capital, including whatever Proud Boys were there.  He called for folks to be there, and then turned his back, slunk away, and then denounced them.  I didn't hear a fucking word from him about Ashli either.
Fucking this.
 

Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:59:26 AM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:
That was Rudy's job... "Trial by Combat!"
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Quoted:
Quoted:

He did not tell people to storm the Capitol and break windows.

That was Rudy's job... "Trial by Combat!"

Lol
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:59:42 AM EDT
[#34]
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 11:00:32 AM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Useful idiots coming to the realization they're now useless.
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What use were they of Trump's?
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 11:01:22 AM EDT
[#36]
I will say this again...Trump was a effect and not the cause.  People voted for Trump because they wanted to disrupt the establishment.  That desire to disrupt still exist, on both sides, with or without Trump.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 11:01:51 AM EDT
[#37]
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The problem with flying the Jolly Roger is when your ship is sunk and your clapped in chains you're on your own. Anyone with a legit position is going to disavow you even if they were secretly cheering you on
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And Trump wasn't a lawless president; quite the contrary.  He's one of those fools who flew a Back The Blue flag at a an election fraud rally overseen by one of the most corrupt police forces in America.

He 'gave up' once the only additional options left were rebellious, because contrary to his bad boy image, he is in fact not actually a rebel.  And that's his choice.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 11:02:23 AM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Useful idiots coming to the realization they're now useless.
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What if I told you Trump was the useful idiot.....
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 11:02:53 AM EDT
[#39]
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 11:03:03 AM EDT
[#40]
Knowing Gavin McInnes origins, I’ve always thought them to be a polarizing controlled opposition, not that their membership would know this.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 11:03:52 AM EDT
[#41]
Obsessed much OP?  Starting to look like a roo.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 11:04:19 AM EDT
[#42]
And it shall come to pass that traditional organizations must bend the knee or face the camps.
The American Legion will fall in the night.
VFW bends in the light.
Rotary drives the trains.
Shriners blow your brains.

`Nostradamus
probably
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 11:04:21 AM EDT
[#43]
Sorry, I stopped at "NYT's".
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 11:04:55 AM EDT
[#44]
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Holy propaganda.
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Link Posted: 1/21/2021 11:05:45 AM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I will say this again...Trump was a effect and not the cause.  People voted for Trump because they wanted to disrupt the establishment.  That desire to disrupt still exist, on both sides, with or without Trump.
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This.

He had some ingredients of the leader we need, but he was not actually a great leader.  He still accomplished much despite truly being out of his depth on the 'palace intrigue' front.  He showed us all that on /policy/, doing a good job is a hell of a lot simpler than past presidents have led us to believe.

The real difficulty is fending off internal threats.  Hopefully primary voters learn their lesson, and will gravitate towards options who are 1) proven supporters of favorable policies, 2) unapologetic, 3) experienced enough to not be naiive.  Cruz naturally comes to mind but there are undoubtedly at least a handful of others.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 11:06:08 AM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That story is half fabricated, half propaganda. Journalists are so far inside their bubble, they can’t comprehend anything outside.
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Naah. They're just liars.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 11:08:25 AM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Knowing Gavin McInnes origins, I’ve always thought them to be a polarizing controlled opposition, not that their membership would know this.
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Almost definitely, but my understanding is he isn't really running the show any longer, and hasn't for some time.  Probably why they have a good public speaker who does media appearances running the show now, instead of a weirdo going on about how not masturbating makes them powerful warriors, lol.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 11:10:35 AM EDT
[#48]
......
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 11:10:44 AM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Pretty much. Trump spent a month telling the American people that their vote was stolen, and that their rights were being taken from them by corrupt politicians. He called on the people to  gather in Washington to protest this crime. Thousands of people did just that, many travelling thousands of miles to stand up for our rights.

Trump stabbed them in the back, and in the process he stabbed all of us in the back as well.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fair warning: I didn't read the article, just the headline.  I refuse to read leftist news anymore.

But, the headline isn't wrong.  Trump abandoned those Patriots at the capital, including whatever Proud Boys were there.  He called for folks to be there, and then turned his back, slunk away, and then denounced them.  I didn't hear a fucking word from him about Ashli either.


Pretty much. Trump spent a month telling the American people that their vote was stolen, and that their rights were being taken from them by corrupt politicians. He called on the people to  gather in Washington to protest this crime. Thousands of people did just that, many travelling thousands of miles to stand up for our rights.

Trump stabbed them in the back, and in the process he stabbed all of us in the back as well.

That's what I saw, he threw his greatest supporters under the bus.


Edit: not that I believe that article, I could understand if true.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 11:10:54 AM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Hey how about those pardoned drug dealers and cop killers? Who tricked Trump into that? Snoop Dog?
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yeah, I saw the threads, but only read yours

Attachment Attached File


as with many things, Trump probably had a group make up a list, and he listened to what they said about the people, and he approved or disapproved it, because he was listening to the group advise him, so I don't know who was in the group


edit - and as i recall, someone pointed out in the thread, that it was not certain the involvement of the person pardoned, and that that the actuall killer was already paroled
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