Home Sale and Stolen Motorcycles

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Posted: 3/21/2019 12:16:36 AM EDT

So my son and I have been riding and storing our dirtbikes at the grandparents home in arizona (Quartzsite) . We live in Washington state.

Grandpa sold the house and it closed last week. Grandpa had a verbal agreement through the realtors that we would collect the bikes this week (less than 7 days after closing). But nothing in writing concerning our bikes.

So we show up today and the buyer tells us that any property left was taken away and "donated to charity". So he disposed of our bikes and won't tell us anything further.

I filed a report with the local police. The cop wasn't sure what he could do about the situation.

Does this guy have a right to steal/dispose of our bikes? He freely admits he took our bikes, is he going to jail or laughing to the bank?

Posted: 3/21/2019 12:21:01 AM EDT

[#1]

What could have stopped you getting your bikes before closing?

It's theirs after closing.

Posted: 3/21/2019 12:23:11 AM EDT

[#2]

You are SOL unfortunately.

Posted: 3/21/2019 12:24:59 AM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:
What could have stopped you getting your bikes before closing?

It's theirs after closing.

View Quote

I know that’s how it works with most items, but what about vehicles with a title?

Posted: 3/21/2019 12:26:19 AM EDT

[#4]

This is probably a case of since you didn't have it in writing, it didn't happen.

If he really donated them to charity, will he not tell you where he did so? Perhaps you could get them back with some sort of proof you owned them and a cash donation.

ETA: Can the cops ask him where he donated them? Seems simple enough for them to ask.

Posted: 3/21/2019 12:28:49 AM EDT

[#5]

Civil suit. Conversion. Trespass on chattel.

He can call the charity to see if they can give it back. He never had title to those bikes and therefore was not in position to donate them.

Posted: 3/21/2019 12:29:44 AM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is probably a case of since you didn't have it in writing, it didn't happen.

If he really donated them to charity, will he not tell you where he did so? Perhaps you could get them back with some sort of proof you owned them and a cash donation.

ETA: Can the cops ask him where he donated them? Seems simple enough for them to ask.

View Quote

This is what I would do, I don't see why they wouldn't be willing to tell you where they were donated unless they get a write off or you neglected to pick up the bikes when you said you would...

Posted: 3/21/2019 12:30:02 AM EDT

[#7]

I just got to Arizona today and was assured by grandpa that buyers were ok waiting a couple days and that he had discussed with the issue with the realtors.

I have the titles to the bikes... can someone just claim my property?

Posted: 3/21/2019 12:31:40 AM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
I just got to Arizona today and was assured by grandpa that buyers were ok waiting a couple days and that he had discussed with the issue with the realtors.

I have the titles to the bikes... can someone just claim my property?

View Quote

Your property was on their property without their written permission. What happens when your car gets towed?

I'd try to play nice and see if they'll do anything to help track them down.

Posted: 3/21/2019 12:34:58 AM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:

Your property was on their property without their written permission. What happens when your car gets towed?

I'd try to play nice and see if they'll do anything to help track them down.

View Quote

most places there is a legal procedure for this that requires them posting it and giving at least 30 days notice.

Posted: 3/21/2019 12:36:10 AM EDT

[#10]

Report them stolen.

Posted: 3/21/2019 12:36:50 AM EDT

[#11]

Almost all real estate deals state any property left behind becomes the new owners. With out it in writing you are sol.

I would go after the agent.

Posted: 3/21/2019 12:44:54 AM EDT

[#12]

Location? Town/City?

Posted: 3/21/2019 12:45:22 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
Almost all real estate deals state any property left behind becomes the new owners. With out it in writing you are sol.

I would go after the agent.

View Quote

I don't think it works that way with a titled vehicle. That's a bit different than a wheelbarrow or a shovel in the garage.

Posted: 3/21/2019 12:50:06 AM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:

Report them stolen.

View Quote

If a charity does have them. They will likely sell them to make money. New "owner" will try to register them. OHVs must be registered in AZ. New "owner" will be forced to forfeit property.

Posted: 3/21/2019 12:54:55 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
What could have stopped you getting your bikes before closing?

It's theirs after closing.

View Quote

That's pretty much it.

Posted: 3/21/2019 12:59:21 AM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
Report them stolen.

View Quote

That's what I'd do.

Posted: 3/21/2019 1:01:26 AM EDT

[#17]

I would report them as stolen property and give all details to police. If they were insured contact your insurance company and give them the details.

Check out craigslist and watch for them to show up in a for sale listing.

Posted: 3/21/2019 1:08:21 AM EDT

[#18]

I really doubt he gave them to charity. That mf sold them.

I would report them stolen.

Posted: 3/21/2019 1:10:21 AM EDT

[#19]

That guy would be picking his fucking teeth off of the ground, but I'm not exactly smart about shit like that.

Posted: 3/21/2019 1:13:09 AM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
Civil suit. Conversion. Trespass on chattel.

He can call the charity to see if they can give it back. He never had title to those bikes and therefore was not in position to donate them.

View Quote

The bikes were on the property at closing. Thread title is misleading. Not stolen.

Posted: 3/21/2019 1:20:11 AM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
Almost all real estate deals state any property left behind becomes the new owners. With out it in writing you are sol.

I would go after the agent.

View Quote

This, once you go to closing everything abandoned on the property belongs to the new owners.
Exceptions will be made in writing, along with a specified deadline for pickup.

Maybe it didn't get added into the paperwork because the new owner might have wanted the old owner to pay a storage fee.

Posted: 3/21/2019 1:30:22 AM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:

I don't think it works that way with a titled vehicle. That's a bit different than a wheelbarrow or a shovel in the garage.

View Quote

No it isn't. Out of state titles, left on the property at closing. No written agreement.

Granted, it's a douche move, but this one is on the grandparents and realtor.

Posted: 3/21/2019 1:38:12 AM EDT

[#23]

Good thing grandpa is currently sitting on a pile of cash from a home sale.

Posted: 3/21/2019 1:41:01 AM EDT

[#24]

purely a civil matter, if you can establish to the courts satisfaction, that a verbal agreement took place (going to be hard) as the law normally states, anything on the property at time & date of close, is surrendered. Anything to the contrary must be accompanied with a signed written contract done well in advance, blah blah blahh... which can include storage fees.

This question begs to be asked however, if the bikes where so important, why did it take you so long to go get them?..its not like a house is listed, goes thru escrow &/or sells overnight.

Posted: 3/21/2019 4:14:07 AM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
Almost all real estate deals state any property left behind becomes the new owners. With out it in writing you are sol.

I would go after the agent.

View Quote

Might be worth driving by said Realtors house and seeing if he has a "new" set of dirtbikes...

You should contact the state board of realtors to file a complaint. If he values his license, he should want to help you get it resolved.

Definitely report vehicles as stolen to Police & Insurance.

And finally is nothing else can be done, Grand Pappy owes you replacements. Why in the hell do people think anything oral - unwritten has any validity when it could have been written?

Posted: 3/21/2019 5:22:37 AM EDT

[#26]

Startling level of misplaced responsibility.

Posted: 3/21/2019 5:24:56 AM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:

Report them stolen.

View Quote

Especially if making false reports is not illegal in AZ.

Posted: 3/21/2019 5:28:20 AM EDT

[#28]

Ouch

those things are expensive

what kind of dirt bikes were they?

Posted: 3/21/2019 5:33:06 AM EDT

[#29]

I'm sort of amazed (well no, not really) at all of the people advocating filing a false police report.

Nothing like being fed a shit sandwich and than going back to ask for seconds and a "take home" box.

Posted: 3/21/2019 5:41:53 AM EDT

[#30]

Depends on the state laws.

Your DMV or grandpa's DMV would probably know best in terms titles and such. In many cases an abandoned vehicle on private property isn't considered property of the land owner until attempts are made to contact the vehicle's owner. What the new land owner should have done was applied for a title first.

The new home owner might just have sold someone else's property. He didn't even have the title to sell it. Both him and the buyer are screwed and the case should go in your favor.

Get a copy of the contract and double check that the bikes are not in the "included in sale" section.

Find out the laws and contact a lawyer.

Posted: 3/21/2019 3:22:01 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:
Depends on the state laws.

Your DMV or grandpa's DMV would probably know best in terms titles and such. In many cases an abandoned vehicle on private property isn't considered property of the land owner until attempts are made to contact the vehicle's owner. What the new land owner should have done was applied for a title first.

The new home owner might just have sold someone else's property. He didn't even have the title to sell it. Both him and the buyer are screwed and the case should go in your favor.

Get a copy of the contract and double check that the bikes are not in the "included in sale" section.

Find out the laws and contact a lawyer.

View Quote

And what would have happened if he threw all the abandoned property in a dumpster prior to moving his own stuff in?
He was under no obligation to store a third party's property after buying the house.

This is completely on the seller - he should be the one reimbursing OP or doing the leg work.

Posted: 3/21/2019 3:25:30 PM EDT

[#32]

I guess they were never really yours.

Posted: 3/21/2019 3:27:26 PM EDT

[#33]

So soon after, he didn't sell them. He gave them to his kid or nephew or a friend or something, or they're at his cabin, someplace like that. Bet me.

They're still around. Question is, are they still yours, and can you find them, and can you get them back?

Legally, this may create the awkward situation of you having a claim against nobody but your grandfather.

But I am not a lawyer. Good luck.

Posted: 3/21/2019 3:28:13 PM EDT

[#34]

You know who could tell you right away? A lawyer licensed to practice in Arizona.

But nobody ever does that.

Posted: 3/21/2019 3:28:46 PM EDT

[#35]

WTF grandpa

Posted: 3/21/2019 3:29:53 PM EDT

[#36]

What's Arizona law on abandoned property?

Your Grandpa's contract was with the realtor ... and he sold the house to the buyer.

California law is that anything left behind is abandoned property/found treasure. I found $1500 worth of gold (one ounce) and silver (many ounces) in my attic.

Posted: 3/21/2019 3:33:13 PM EDT

[#37]

Titled vehicle makes a difference.

If the new property owner claims they didn't know about you picking them up, they would have been required to contact the DMV and submit an abandoned vehicle form.

Example: MVD receives a request from a tow company to file a vehicle as abandoned. MVD sends notice to the owner, lien holder and any other interested party providing information that they have 30 days to reclaim the vehicle. If the vehicle is not claimed, ownership may be transferred free and clear to the towing company.

Posted: 3/21/2019 3:33:31 PM EDT

[#38]

Somebody should have taken the 5 minutes to put it in writing.

Posted: 3/21/2019 3:34:39 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:
I really doubt he gave them to charity. That mf sold them.

I would report them stolen.

View Quote

I think the new owner is full of the poop

Posted: 3/21/2019 3:35:08 PM EDT

[#40]

First question is: What is the value of the bikes, realistically?

Posted: 3/21/2019 3:36:08 PM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:
What's Arizona law on abandoned property?

Your Grandpa's contract was with the realtor ... and he sold the house to the buyer.

California law is that anything left behind is abandoned property/found treasure. I found $1500 worth of gold (one ounce) and silver (many ounces) in my attic.

View Quote

Let Spain find out!

Posted: 3/21/2019 3:36:15 PM EDT

[#42]

Read the section in here about personal property and then see a lawyer.

http://www.harperlawaz.com/blog/2013/9/10/the-nuts-and-bolts-of-arizona-real-estate-contracts

"The rule is that the buyer purchases the fixtures annexed to the real property, but not the personal property unless it is specified in the purchase contract."

Posted: 3/21/2019 3:37:32 PM EDT

[#43]

You as the owner should have liked your motorcycles enough to go get them . Did grandpa just list the house for sale 2 weeks ago? If so then okay. If not then you had time and ignored the facts and created the situation by being busy. Now it is up to civil courts and /or police to sort it out.

Posted: 3/21/2019 3:39:43 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:
Read the section in here about personal property and then see a lawyer.
http://www.harperlawaz.com/blog/2013/9/10/the-nuts-and-bolts-of-arizona-real-estate-contracts
The rule is that the buyer purchases the fixtures annexed to the real property, but not the personal property unless it is specified in the purchase contract.

View Quote

That's not talking about what happens to personal property left behind post-closing. That's talking about what the seller is allowed to take with him without getting in trouble with the buyer.

OP, what day of the week did the closing take place on?

Posted: 3/21/2019 3:43:19 PM EDT

[#45]

The new homeowner should have applied for a title for an abandoned vehicle, which given the short period of time, I doubt he did. I find it hard to believe a charity would haul off the bikes without clear title.

Posted: 3/21/2019 3:45:31 PM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:
Somebody should have taken the 5 minutes to put it in writing.

View Quote

The number of times I see stuff go completely off the rails on oral promises when a simple written communication would have guaranteed the deal

Posted: 3/21/2019 3:46:13 PM EDT

[#47]

Quote History

Quoted:
Civil suit. Conversion. Trespass on chattel.

He can call the charity to see if they can give it back. He never had title to those bikes and therefore was not in position to donate them.

View Quote

Some places don't title dirt bikes.