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Posted: 3/2/2019 11:58:05 PM EDT
F-35Bs bombed ISIS in Iraq and Syria for 50 days, better availability rates and combat flight hours
"They were very active and did very well," he told Military.com. "As the MEU commander, anytime I see aircraft flying that much, I get concerned about what the breaking point is going to be. But there's no breaking point with these guys; they just crushed it."
The Marines spent more than seven months deployed to the Pacific and Middle East. The F-35B detachment was assigned to the 13th MEU, which operated from aboard the amphibious assault ship Essex. It was the first time the Marine Corps' variant of the stealth jet, which can take off and land vertically, deployed to the Middle East. The F-35B's first combat strike was in Afghanistan in September, where the Marine pilots were flying close-air support missions, said Lt. Col. Kyle Shoop, VMFA-211's commanding officer. From there, they flew more than 50 days' worth of close-air support and defensive counter-air missions in Iraq and Syria. "Every day, [the pilots] were supporting over six hours of time in theater," Shoop said. The F-35Bs were able to give troops on the ground more information than would have been possible in the AV-8B Harrier jump jet, which the Joint Strike Fighter will eventually replace. Its sensors are better in poor weather, Shoop said.
The Marines ended up flying the F-35B about twice as much as the Harrier flew on past deployments, Nelms said. "A conservative estimate is the F-35 flew 100 percent more hours on this deployment than a typical deployment for a Harrier squadron," he said. "When you consider that their readiness was 75 percent or better ... while doubling the amount of flight hours being flown, it's a real testament to the aircraft and the maintainers." 
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:02:58 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
The F-35B detachment was assigned to the 13th MEU, which operated from aboard the amphibious assault ship Essex. 
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:08:34 AM EDT
[#2]
Is it really a shock that a brand new aircraft can run longer without major breakage compared to 30yr old harrier airframes that are cobbled together from cannibalized parts?
That doesn't really give any indication whether it's a success, just that it's not an immediate failure. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:10:41 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's got to be a bit of a quantum leap in aerial strike capability over the Harrier for that LHA (LHD?). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The F-35B detachment was assigned to the 13th MEU, which operated from aboard the amphibious assault ship Essex. ....to operating a more capable, LHD-deployable, VSTOL 5th Gen Omnirole Fighter that will decimate any other operational air threat used by foreign nations, penetrate all known IADS, TGT all surface threat profiles, and they're just barely getting used to the capabilities of the aircraft. The thing that surprised me about this news is that the F-35B is the most difficult F-35 to maintain due to the additional complexity of the lift fan, doors, and tighter routing spaces for connective lines and cables that run from the forward fuselage to the rest of the aircraft. Because they carry so much fuel internally, they can stay on station for a longer time, but I didn't expect them to have these kinds of availability rates and combat hours already. They've been very quiet about the operational use of this in Syria and Iraq, only telling about the Taliban bombing missions in A-Stan last year. Turns out they've been working with the gloves off against ISIS in the Syrian-Iraqi border region all along. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:12:33 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it really a shock that a brand new aircraft can run longer without major breakage compared to 30yr old harrier airframes that are cobbled together from cannibalized parts? That doesn't really give any indication whether it's a success, just that it's not an immediate failure. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:17:39 AM EDT
[#5]
It could be nothing more than a commander who ordered the F-35 to fly X mission today.
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:19:09 AM EDT
[#6]
Somewhere in those numbers is a LCpl clicking away in GCSS.
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:20:29 AM EDT
[#7]
I really like it when we kill bad people.
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:21:27 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It could be nothing more than a commander who ordered the F-35 to fly X mission today. The F-35B is just significantly and inherently better at supporting these sortie rates and rounds on target, with much faster response time as well if you have time critical CAS or DCA. 
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:25:27 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it really a shock that a brand new aircraft can run longer without major breakage compared to 30yr old harrier airframes that are cobbled together from cannibalized parts? That doesn't really give any indication whether it's a success, just that it's not an immediate failure. 
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:30:17 AM EDT
[#10]
So much force in the LHA's with the 35b. For most of the conflicts that we are in they are going to be huge assets.
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:30:48 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I really like it when we kill bad people. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:31:14 AM EDT
[#12]
Members of Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 211 flew 1,200 combat hours over Iraq and Syria, "making up a considerable portion of the ordnance that was dropping in theater," said Col. Chandler Nelms, commander of the 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit. Last year, Lockheed Martin produced 91 F-35s, a 100% ramp-up in production as the company pivoted from LRIP into full-rate manufacture. At least The USMC already has 4 F-35B squadrons, one of which is for conversion training at MCAS Beaufort, the other 3 being Marine Fighter-Attack Squadrons, including VMFA-211. By the end of this year, there will be at least 447 F-35s. By the end of 2020, there will be at least 538 F-35s. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:31:18 AM EDT
[#13]
comparing it to the Harrier isnt really the gold standard
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:32:27 AM EDT
[#14]
Good shit.
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:32:44 AM EDT
[#15]
Just finished my taxes this means probably paid for a couple minutes of fuel for one of those, and happy to do it!
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:35:10 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
comparing it to the Harrier isnt really the gold standard With age, I'm sure that has come down. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:37:45 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
comparing it to the Harrier isnt really the gold standard |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:39:49 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You could order Harriers to fly those hours, but they would be much more difficult to support because they don't carry that much internal fuel, and don't have the same payload capability by a wide margin. The F-35B is just significantly and inherently better at supporting these sortie rates and rounds on target, with much faster response time as well if you have time critical CAS or DCA. http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/5437ebd46bb3f79049d60606-1200-800/11819987193_11db294960_o.jpg |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:40:44 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But the A-10 still does a better job of being a CAS plane. Longer range and damn near as much payload. Cheaper to buy. Plus a bonus minigun |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:42:22 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's got to be a bit of a quantum leap in aerial strike capability over the Harrier for that LHA (LHD?). |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:43:36 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But the A-10 still does a better job of being a CAS plane. Longer range and damn near as much payload. Cheaper to buy. Plus a bonus minigun |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:45:10 AM EDT
[#22]
How stealthy are they with racks of bombs on the wings?
I get it that it doesn't matter in Afghanistan. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:45:16 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But the A-10 still does a better job of being a CAS plane. Longer range and damn near as much payload. Cheaper to buy. Plus a bonus minigun |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:49:30 AM EDT
[#24]
Forgive my ignorance, but why are we flying "defensive counter-air missions in Iraq?"
I thought we had that locked down 15 years ago. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:51:46 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Aaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnddddddd it needs a full runway. A-10s practice operating from highways so call it even but realistically,if it came to deploying from such, things would have gone so sideways that they wouldn't be flying at all either. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:56:49 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Forgive my ignorance, but why are we flying "defensive counter-air missions in Iraq?" I thought we had that locked down 15 years ago. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:57:31 AM EDT
[#27]
I am pleased.
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:59:07 AM EDT
[#28]
But but but it’s gun isn’t as good!!!
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:00:09 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But the A-10 still does a better job of being a CAS plane. Longer range and damn near as much payload. Cheaper to buy. Plus a bonus minigun Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: You could order Harriers to fly those hours, but they would be much more difficult to support because they don't carry that much internal fuel, and don't have the same payload capability by a wide margin. The F-35B is just significantly and inherently better at supporting these sortie rates and rounds on target, with much faster response time as well if you have time critical CAS or DCA. http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/5437ebd46bb3f79049d60606-1200-800/11819987193_11db294960_o.jpg |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:00:18 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Forgive my ignorance, but why are we flying "defensive counter-air missions in Iraq?" I thought we had that locked down 15 years ago. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:01:15 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Aaaaaaaaaaannnndddd when have USMC Harriers ever been used operationally from a short strip like they imagined in the 1960s? Never. F-35s will never,ever be used in that manner ashore either. A-10s practice operating from highways so call it even but realistically,if it came to deploying from such, things would have gone so sideways that they wouldn't be flying at all either. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Aaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnddddddd it needs a full runway. A-10s practice operating from highways so call it even but realistically,if it came to deploying from such, things would have gone so sideways that they wouldn't be flying at all either. 
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:01:27 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Iran Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Forgive my ignorance, but why are we flying "defensive counter-air missions in Iraq?" I thought we had that locked down 15 years ago. Keeping Syrian and to a lesser extent Russian aircraft away from US forces on the ground.  TGP footage of Syrian Su-22 shot down by USN F/A-18E |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:02:46 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Forgive my ignorance, but why are we flying "defensive counter-air missions in Iraq?" I thought we had that locked down 15 years ago. Dont need them getting confused and taking out US forces. Air cover doesnt hurt. Others will know better |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:04:14 AM EDT
[#34]
I must admit the STOVL capabilities alone are quite impressive.
 Attached FileBritish birds. But it sure does look sci fi doesn't it? |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:10:17 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Aaaaaaaaaaannnndddd when have USMC Harriers ever been used operationally from a short strip like they imagined in the 1960s? Never. F-35s will never,ever be used in that manner ashore either. A-10s practice operating from highways so call it even but realistically,if it came to deploying from such, things would have gone so sideways that they wouldn't be flying at all either. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:12:21 AM EDT
[#36]
This is not to say the F-35B isn’t an amazing aircraft, but the AV-8B Harriers is a rather low baseline to use for comparison...
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:15:36 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is not to say the F-35B isn’t an amazing aircraft, but the AV-8B Harriers is a rather low baseline to use for comparison... |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:23:11 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it really a shock that a brand new aircraft can run longer without major breakage compared to 30yr old harrier airframes that are cobbled together from cannibalized parts? "This brand-new 2018 F-350 is way betterer than the 1988 F-350 we've been using." |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:24:50 AM EDT
[#39]
I had no idea they were being used over there.
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:25:44 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You could order Harriers to fly those hours, but they would be much more difficult to support because they don't carry that much internal fuel, and don't have the same payload capability by a wide margin. The F-35B is just significantly and inherently better at supporting these sortie rates and rounds on target, with much faster response time as well if you have time critical CAS or DCA. http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/5437ebd46bb3f79049d60606-1200-800/11819987193_11db294960_o.jpg Badass photo, btw. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:27:44 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But the A-10 still does a better job of being a CAS plane. Longer range and damn near as much payload. Cheaper to buy. Plus a bonus minigun Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: You could order Harriers to fly those hours, but they would be much more difficult to support because they don't carry that much internal fuel, and don't have the same payload capability by a wide margin. The F-35B is just significantly and inherently better at supporting these sortie rates and rounds on target, with much faster response time as well if you have time critical CAS or DCA. http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/5437ebd46bb3f79049d60606-1200-800/11819987193_11db294960_o.jpg A-10 never exceed speed is 450 knots for starters. Good luck if you're Troops In Contact. Once on-station, it has nowhere near the Situational Awareness of the F-35. The F-35 can delivery precision munitions from over the horizon, including salvos of independently-targeted LGBs, JDAMs, or SDB IIs, with far superior kinematics for fast time-on-target. The A-10C even has to get close or overhead if alone to develop SA of the space before employing weapons. Comparing the 2 in the CAS role isn't really fair to the A-10, since the A-10 should have never been born when you look at what we already had with the A-7D, which had superior low level weapons delivery capabilities to the A-10, and was far more survivable. If we're talking about the gun in the CAS role, the conversation is in the wrong place, since the primary weapons for CAS for the A-10 have been bombs. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:28:43 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Forgive my ignorance, but why are we flying "defensive counter-air missions in Iraq?" I thought we had that locked down 15 years ago. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:29:59 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Russian and Syrian AF has a bad habit of trying to bomb our outposts and SFA allies. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Forgive my ignorance, but why are we flying "defensive counter-air missions in Iraq?" I thought we had that locked down 15 years ago. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:33:01 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Russian and Syrian AF has a bad habit of trying to bomb our outposts and SFA allies. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:33:50 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No kidding, supposedly the Marine Corps has been trying to find a replacement for them since the 80's. One hell of an upgrade. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is not to say the F-35B isn’t an amazing aircraft, but the AV-8B Harriers is a rather low baseline to use for comparison... The USAF, brits, US Navy, and other partners got on board later, after it was determined that like with the F-4, it would be more efficient and economical/feasible to develop 3 different JSF variants with a single prime contractor, rather than trying to develop 3 different aircraft made by 3 different prime contractors. This is why the X-35 was a VSTOL with a lot of input from the Brits and the VAAC Harrier, as well as the USAF AFTI F-16. 
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:34:17 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He left off the pertinent "and Syria" part of the quote. Keeping Syrian and to a lesser extent Russian aircraft away from US forces on the ground.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSJiE_gvZ6wQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Forgive my ignorance, but why are we flying "defensive counter-air missions in Iraq?" I thought we had that locked down 15 years ago. Keeping Syrian and to a lesser extent Russian aircraft away from US forces on the ground. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSJiE_gvZ6w |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:34:34 AM EDT
[#47]
I got nothing to add to this discussion other than I just saw this again tonight:
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:34:54 AM EDT
[#48]
Former 6222 Harrier maintainer here.
The new F35B is one impressive platform. The Rolls Royce F402 is inherently difficult to keep running, and it's no secret that parts scarcity has been a problem for years. The sooner the Harrier program is shut down, the better. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:36:56 AM EDT
[#49]
Unpossible. GD has assured me that the F35 is not capable of being used in combat and that it is the worst aircraft ever made. We should all be appalled that the USMC has to use state of the art new aircraft that easily outperform their old cobbled together Harriers.
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:47:50 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I got nothing to add to this discussion other than I just saw this again tonight: https://coubsecure-s.akamaihd.net/get/b23/p/coub/simple/cw_image/667e6fd1cd6/919cc9ba7ad40c56b75b6/med_1411003016_00032.jpg http://2.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.com/47/60/0a278701fd91b9053c34389d0f0b9ab3.gif |
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