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Posted: 12/8/2003 7:18:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Relax, everything will be OK. Just Breathe. Automation gets rid of some jobs but others always manage to spring up. Look at the Luddites, they had a big league freak out at the encroachment of machines on their livelihood. But everything turned out OK.
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Posted: 12/8/2003 7:22:08 PM EDT
[#2]
All your manual labor skills are belong to us!
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Posted: 12/8/2003 7:29:11 PM EDT
[#3]
Somebody has to fix all this hi tech chinese and mexican crap when it dies. Considering thats what i do for a living.....
BRING IT ON!!!! |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 7:30:19 PM EDT
[#4]
No, Automation will not be the end of us.
(This is a automated reply by the Autoreply Deluxe 2.0) |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 7:44:04 PM EDT
[#5]
Hey, great. If a machine can do your job, it likely isn't much of a job. If 10 dockworkers can do the job of 500 50 years ago, those 10 can command a pretty awesome salary. Probably pretty skilled workers, too.
High productivity is what gives us a higher standard of living than China. EVERYONE benefits. Folks living 50 years ago did not have as much as we take for granted now. Jobs come, and jobs go. How many jobs have I had, and I am not even 40 yet. Gotta be versatile and gain skills. The days of starting out with a company and getting your gold watch at the same factory are long gone, and good riddance too. |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 7:46:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Take it to the extreme -
automation does EVERYTHING in our society. That means EVERYONE would have EVERYTHING they wanted. Surplus for EVERYONE. Is that such a bad thing? It's getting there that is a bitch. Displaced workers, distrubution of wealth issues, etc... |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 7:53:50 PM EDT
[#7]
This worries me a lot more than automation does:
[img]http://flymeaway.net/images/demotivators_1767_113958[/img] |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 8:29:02 PM EDT
[#8]
In the Southern US, there are no more gas station attendants. At most of the major grocery stores, the checkers are being replaced by automatic scanners. Soon there will be no more telephone operators or American customer service personnel. The textile industry is only years from disappearing (and with it..cotton farming). Manufacturing is being moved to third world countries as well as Canada. Yes most of these are mundane jobs but they supply hundreds of thousands if not millions of Americans with income. Are these people going to retrained to fix micro-electronics? I don't think so. How many jobs have been lost in the IT industry to India? There are no jobs that are off limits to being outsourced. Ok, with the lone exception of CEO's and corporate officers. Add to the mix the influx of millions of illegal aliens bringing down the payscale and things look dreary.
Economists and other people in the know tell us that everything will be ok once the baby boomers start to retire, but when will that be? There will always be a large proportion of people that are incapable of complex or technical jobs and they will not be able to be retrained to troubleshoot a motherboard. How are these people going to make a living? I work for a large high technology company and we have probably laid off 70% of the support staff because of automation. From my perspective, things are pretty scary. |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 8:39:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Automation will bring jobs back to the US.
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Posted: 12/8/2003 9:03:16 PM EDT
[#10]
its simple:
Automation means people loose jobs, no jobs - no money, no money = to spend = no economy. In the future we will all just sit at home and surf the net...with the exception of a few jobs like the medical field and a few simple jobs, but even those will be underpaid because the competion for those jobs will be fiercely pursued thus the guy who agrees to the lowest wage will win the job. I believe this will reach a peak in 10 years when income tax revenue dips past tolerance then the .gov will step in and enforce an automation blockade so the the citizens will have work thus generating taxes which makes .gov happy. So, everything will be fine in due time, or until all the companies move overseas because they dont like the extra cash that they have to spend on us expensive humans. Expect more wars in the future in an effort to jump start the economy ala WW2. Weeeee....its gonna be a bumpy ride, hang on. |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 9:13:35 PM EDT
[#11]
Machines will build the small things, but people will still build the big things. And we'll be building a lot of big things.
When the machines start building the big things, well, we might not even need an economy anymore. |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 9:17:58 PM EDT
[#12]
[b][red]JUDGEMENT DAY IS INEVITABLE[/red][/b]
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Posted: 12/8/2003 9:18:11 PM EDT
[#13]
... I make my living designing, developing and maintaining automated mechanisms and machines.
... If a machine in battle can save our soldiers lives and win a conflict, then I say send in the machines. |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 9:20:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Automation will bring jobs back to the US. Please explain this... |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 9:37:09 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: [b][red]JUDGEMENT DAY IS INEVITABLE[/red][/b] Hehe... But seriously, automation calls for A.I., doesn't it. I like computers, but I don't like computing taking all of our lives. Too much of anything isn't good. (except when we are talking about guns and ammo) |
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Posted: 12/8/2003 9:42:00 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Quoted: Automation will bring jobs back to the US. Please explain this... Because highly paid US workers CANNOT COMPETE doing the SAME JOB as low paid Chinese workers. Automation makes US workers produce the same item cheaper. A US worker running a row of CNC mills can run rings around 10 workers with manual mills. ----------- Haven't thought it through, but I remember one of my profs, an importer in a previous life, stated the basic costs to accomplish a task are the same world wide. They HAVE to be in a free trade situation. I.E., 100 [red] Where real differences in the ability to compete come up is in the cost of management and capital. [red]Slur removed. -DF[/red] |
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Posted: 12/9/2003 5:30:10 AM EDT
[#17]
Automation won't keep manufacturing in this country. Many times it's cheaper to use manual labor in third world countries than build and maintain an automated plant in this counrty. |
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Posted: 12/9/2003 5:30:38 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: [b][red]JUDGEMENT DAY IS INEVITABLE[/red][/b] RISE OF THE MACHINES |
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Posted: 12/9/2003 5:47:18 AM EDT
[#19]
This sounds a lot like the same headlines back in the early 1900's when workers were destroying barns full of combines and other automated farm equipment because they were taking away all of the good jobs.
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Posted: 12/9/2003 5:57:30 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: This sounds a lot like the same headlines back in the early 1900's when workers were destroying barns full of combines and other automated farm equipment because they were taking away all of the good jobs. Absolutely. The Luddites were wrong then. They are wrong now. |
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Posted: 12/9/2003 6:16:51 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Because highly paid US workers CANNOT COMPETE doing the SAME JOB as low paid Chinese workers. Automation makes US workers produce the same item cheaper. A US worker running a row of CNC mills can run rings around 10 workers with manual mills. I think you may need to rethink this position. I'm from the western part of PA, at one point in time the world leader in tool n die & manufacturing overall. Ever since China stepped into this realm all decent paying jobs, about 65% have been lost. A fact finding mission done by many company gm & presidents, they took a trip to China about 6 months ago, found out that the Chinese workforce was using the newest and best available equipment that is on the market today. Now granted automation is good but not when a government is funding all of the shops that are in direct competition with our locally owned ones. So do not even attempt to tell me that China is playing on level terms. |
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Posted: 12/9/2003 6:37:28 AM EDT
[#22]
I did not say it was a level playing field. What I said was that automation is what will allow a US worker to make more money than a chinese worker. Burying our heads in the sand and continuing with the old ways is NOT a solution. I dont see why you guys can't see this.
Yes, it is scary to think some of the most advanced research in the world is happening in Red China. I am not really involved with the tool and die business, but alot of that work went to Canada too. Industry types said it was like a light switch turning off in their trade, orders plunged like that. Quarter million dollar wire machines are on the market for 10,000 bucks - I bought one, but don't have the time to get it up and running. |
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Posted: 12/9/2003 6:43:10 AM EDT
[#23]
Wire machine?
Are you talking EDM? |
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Posted: 12/9/2003 6:58:46 AM EDT
[#24]
Automation will be the end of those that cannot adapt & overcome.
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Posted: 12/9/2003 7:10:16 AM EDT
[#25]
This isn't logical.
Facts: 1) Over the last 100 years we've seen technology grow by leaps and bounds. 2) In 1930 the US population was 123 million people, today it is nearly 293 million. 3) The unemployment rates haven't really changed from around 6% over the last hundred years or so. So, how is this our undoing again? |
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Posted: 12/9/2003 7:53:16 AM EDT
[#26]
pogo is correct.
cnc wire and sinker edm's are selling for pennies on the dollar...especially fo the huge ones that are used to make automotive panel dies. why? the chinese can build that same die and ship it here for 30-60% of the cost of a local/in house built die. the auto manufacturers install italian/german presses that run russian steel thru a die that was built in china. i am in tool and die. i have been on this job for 24 years. like winston, i design the machines and tooling that go to work for american and foreign businesses. |
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Posted: 12/9/2003 8:06:13 AM EDT
[#27]
WTF???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Calling a chinese manual laborer a coolie is an ethnic slur? Where the Hell did Moderators get that idea????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? DF, your inbox is full. |
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Posted: 12/9/2003 8:25:41 AM EDT
[#28]
According to [url=http://www.rsdb.org/]The Racial Slur Database[/url] the origin of [url=http://www.rsdb.org/search?q=Coolie]coolie[/url] is as follows:
Chinese railroad workers in the 1800's wore triangle-shaped hats called "coolie hats". Might have originally been heard as "ku-li", a Chinese word meaning a menial worker. I just added this for no other reason than I found it interesting. [BD] |
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Posted: 12/9/2003 9:22:19 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: [b][red]JUDGEMENT DAY IS INEVITABLE[/red][/b] OK! If any of these asshole machines try to start a Skynet or Matrix thing, I am just goint to use my opposable thumbs, along with other features, and beat the shit out of them! Bilster PS F***ing machines! |
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Posted: 12/9/2003 9:35:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: This isn't logical. Facts: 1) Over the last 100 years we've seen technology grow by leaps and bounds. 2) In 1930 the US population was 123 million people, today it is nearly 293 million. 3) The unemployment rates haven't really changed from around 6% over the last hundred years or so. So, how is this our undoing again? Norman 74! How dare you insert facts and logic into this perfectly incoherent and illogical panic attack! [:)] |
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Posted: 12/9/2003 9:45:33 AM EDT
[#31]
Does anyone remember James Burke's book and television series "Connections"? [url]http://smithsonianassociates.org/programs/burke/burke.asp[/url]
The basic theme of his book was we have no idea what the creation and impact of one thing can have nor predict its outcome. Invent gunpowder = Land on the moon. Guess it comes down to one door closes and another one opens. Change is constant. I believe we Americans, as a whole, are a very clever and resorceful people. I have no doubt that we will continue to create new and innovative services and products. (okay, now what happen to my team membership?) |
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Posted: 12/9/2003 9:47:55 AM EDT
[#32]
I can't believe you head-in-the-sand types can't read the simple lessons of history. Here in my town, almost everyone goes armed because of the "Twisties," a roving gang of thugs descended from buggywhip braiders who were put out of work by the rise of the automobile and whose families never recovered. Then there are the typewriter and adding machine repairmen who importune passing strangers, offering blowjobs for food. Just last week, I had to use a grubbing-hoe handle to chase an emaciated carbon-paper salesman away from my office.
It is pretty clear to me that changes in technology cause permanent, irreparable harm, and we should all be sitting near norther-light windows spinning wool. It's the only way to build and maintain an economy. |
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Posted: 12/9/2003 4:31:52 PM EDT
[#33]
Machines break
Someone's got to fix them... So we get an increase in quality (mechanical precision over human error), and efficiency, and the jobs of the production crew are replaced by higher paying (but fewer, and more demanding) positions for engineers & mechanics... However, since it allready sucks to be a no-skill/low-skill worker in a 1st world country, what's new? If only we could invent machines to pick berries, sweep floors, & work fast food, it would cut down on the immigration problem to boot (they won't come if there are no jobs)... P.S. Your 'the sky is falling' logic has come up every time technology makes a major move... It never happens... |
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Posted: 12/9/2003 6:29:30 PM EDT
[#34]
What I want to know is, when are all these labor saving devices going to start saving me some goddamn labor? I'm still at work 8 (10?) hours a day, and until these devices cut into that, I'm not impressed.
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