I think army is longer if you are a infantryman because you do AIT and basic at the same time.

What makes one harder than the other, I have heard a few marines talk about bootcamp and it sounds pretty damn intense.

Don't know anyone in the army so I wondering how they differ?

I have heard the Marine DI's really try to mess with you more so then in the army??

air force is the hardest, then cub scouts comes in second.

if youre just talking basic..not counting AIT...marine boot is longer...but from what i understand...all basic training courses are a joke these days.  

really? I think places like Ft benning and Knox are still pretty hardcore.

I can hardly believe marine basic is any harder than army basic, it's just longer, i.e. more complete and utter HORSESHIT to put up with.

Neither one is hard - they're easy to get through, you just need to have your shit together.

Hell, they ain't goin' to kill you, at least not on purpose, so how bad can it be?

You mean hard Corps.[;D]

I only attended Marine Corps Boot camp. so I can't say which is hardest. I just know the Marine Corps wasn't easy. 12 weeks of hell on earth, or at least Hadees.

the only thing HARD about army basic is staying awake for the first 2 weeks. Once you adjust to the routine it's a cakewalk.

mike

thats the weird thing I hear others say how good boot camp was and how it was really hard work but fun during parts.

Would others here say its hell?

he-he...

Twenty-five years ago when I was in army, basic training, it was a joke.  I live next to FT. Hood and from what I hear it still is.  The toughest part is the mental stuff coming from the drill sergeants.

USMC of 25 years ago seemed prety Hard Corps. We had Vietnam vets for Drill Instructors, Korean War vets for Senior staff NCO's & Warrent O's, knew more than one officer that had seen quite a bit of asian combat. 13 wks boot, then to ait or whatever school your had beyond boot.

In 1969 a friend and I went down to the Marine recruiting office.  The recruiter started giving me a raft of shit even before I signed up. My buddy went in, I later joined the army. I regretted it for a long time and I wonder how my life would have changed if we'd both joined that day. From what I saw and heard then, Marine Boot was much harder.  Army basic and A.I.T. was no picnic either.  There were a lot of guys milling about and no one had time for anyone's personal problems or agendas. They had to get you processed and shipped to VN.  Now I see this unisex Army basic bullshit and time out cards and all that other crap. No matter what the Corps does, it has to be harder than that. And better.  It took me a while to realize the difference in pride within the two services. In the Army, if you are lucky enough to earn a good spot in a popular unit or a qualification like airborne or ranger, you can be proud of yourself. Your shoulder patch and wings say a lot.
You don't need that in the Marine Corps. The uniform says it all.  No patches or decorations required.

Question,,in Army basic training,,did they get any free time oof ie. passes etc. maybe a weekend off. telephone calls?  What about the chow,,ever get deserts? Did you have a rose garden?

I can't imagine that 8 weeks at Ft. Jackson is tougher than 13 weeks on Parris Island.
FWIW, I didn't find Boot Camp difficult to adjust to. With the right frame of mind, while not exactly easy, I wouldn't call it "Hell on Earth". The mental game was tough. The "left, right, left", "repeat after me", "make your rack like this", "run and clap your hands" mundane B.S. was simple to get the hang of. The worst thing for me was the threat of getting recycled. In my mind it was a temporary situation. I would do what had to be done to graduate. That meant putting up with it for a finite number of days. You just count them down on your mental calender. Getting recycled would have thrown off my time table and blown my groove. It would have been a bad thing.

Dont even put army basic and USMC Boot camp together in the same scentence.Isnt Army Basic Coed now??????????????

PPPPLLLLEEEEAAAASSSSEEEE!I went through MCRD Sandiego in 91" and friends who went through Army Basic at the same time.They didnt do a 3rd of the PT we did,several major differnces beside that but Im not going to get started.

Sorry if this ticks some of you army guys off, but they are not the same.



[marines]

the people that say "oh it was fun" are speaking once they are looking back on it...NOBODY says "oh..this is fun" while going through the training....its always in retrospect.  but the military as a whole has changed even since i was in..which hasnt been ALL that long ago....times are changing for the military...i still work around the army daily...and some of these slack ass soldiers i see these days..makes me wonder what theyre teaching them in basic and AIT anymore....its kinda scary actually. and the stories i hear some of them tell....lead me to believe that basic is nothing but a joke anymore.  

Wow, I was thinking of posting this exact question awhile ago!
From what I understand, Marines get it the worst, then Army, then Navy, then Air force, Then Coast guard.
I had a DI who was in the Army 6 years before he joined the Corps, and of course he said the Corp was harder, but I beleive it. It wasn't no cake walk in '99, but I wouldn't compare it to the Old Corps, you know, when you got the crap beat outta you.

When you ask about Army BT you have to be more specific. When I was there (1982) we did OSUT (One Station Unit Training). An entire unit was assembled, trained and shipped out as a package.

OSUT combined basic and AIT into one fourteen week adventure. The Drill Sergeants who pounded you into the dirt during Phase 1 (basic) stuck around to pound you some more during Phase 2 and 3 (AIT). It sucked but it worked.

Don't know how they're doing it today but with all the split-tails running around I don't imagine it's the same.

I dont think they actually have time out cards, I asked around and everyone I talked to said its a myth.

they supposedly existed in the navy for a time. some stupid captain thought they should make boot camp more geared for civilians, so they gave stress cards to recruits. i went 3 months ago and saw no such thing, but according to one RDC they had gotten rid of stress cards a little while back

You have to compare the OSUT training for combat arms to the Marine Corps, there are no females in combat arms.  Comparing Basic training at Ft. Jackson to the Corps is apples to oranges.  Compare Benning to the Corps and I think things are a little more even.

Can't exactly compare those 2 either.

USMC bootcamp is 13 weeks, and then you get 10 days leave, and then got to Marine Combat training, another 4 weeks of training in basic combat training.

For a grand total of 17 weeks.

THEN you go to your A school, which for the grunts is MORE combat training.

only ten days? oh wait, i havent been home in 6 months. [;)]

lessee. MCRD San Diego, '87. 13wks of hard training. Lots of PT, lots of punishment PT (individual and unit), DIs all over, tough as hell. Under discipline 24/7, 30mins in the evening not enough time to get chores done, much less do anything else. Want time to write letters or do extra studying, or take a leisurely dump? Have the fire watch wake you up in the middle of the night to do so.
No breaks, no calls, over the holidays and the one single afternoon 'Family Day' the sunday before graduation was a 'no go' for the saps stuck on firewatch or guard duty.

Then Arty FDC training at Ft. Sill OK. Marine FDC classes barracks next to the Army AIT. We are up, pre-dawn, running 3-5mi, & PT, showered, uniformed and on the road to the mess hall before the Army kiddies are even awake. And they do low-impact aerobics to a boombox. They are slouching around, casually addressing their Drill Sergeants, going to a nearby junkfood / corner 'store' every couple days. Phone privileges every day. Base liberty every every sunday.
My fellow Marines & I were shocked, shocked I say! And disgusted at the pathetic slack exhibited by the Army artillery corp & their AIT.

Folks should also keep in mind that the marines have 2 boot camps. The Army has something like 16. If you are artillery, you go to AIT at Ft Sill, then walk across the road to your Arty school. Tanks? AIT at Ft Knox, walk across the road to your school. So your AIT mileage may vary.
But for the Marines, 'Every Marine a Rifleman' is no hollow catch-phrase (especially not since Commandant Al Gray made it a reality again).

Every Marine a Rifleman.

absolutely true. Hydguy hit the nail on the head. even a cook in the Corps went to MCT  i'll say this though.... if jessica lynch and her maintenance convoy had been Marines there would have been a lot of dead iraqi's. they would have had clean weapons and rolled out of their vehicles and started executing squad assaults. this is due to the culture and warrior mindset that is instilled in EVERY Marine, not just the ones destined for combat arms MOS's

There is no camparison between the two.

Never having been to Marine Corps boot, I can't comment on anything but hearsay.

I went to Ft. Benning, Sand Hill D 1/50 in January 1990.  It wasn't easy and the first few weeks took some adjustment.  Parts of it were unpleasant, other parts were an awful lot of fun, some of it was just make work stupid stuff.  Other things SEEMED stupid but weren't.  The physical standards are not difficult IF you have a little bit of physical discipline and are reasonably fit going in.  If you are unfit going in, the physical elements will absorb a lot of your attention and energy degrading your performance otherwise.  My advice to you is if possible, to be able to meet the minimal fitness standards for your age going in, then all you have to worry about is improvement, and you can concentrate on more important things. The same is true of Airborne School.  It's not hard, but if you only meet the minimal fitness standards to get in, you will be too absorbed in the physical elements and being tired to perform at your best on the mental and coordination skills subjects.  Likewise with Ranger Indoctrination Program if you intend to try to get into teh Regiment.  If you are only hitting the minimums for entry, you will struggle in the program and constantly waste energy and mental strength worrying about the next PT test or Timed March or whatever.  If you go in maxing out the PT test, you can concentrate on performing tasks and learning new material.

Marine Corps Basic Training is, from everything I have seen, MUCH harder than Army Basic, even Infantry OSUT training in the Army.  THe Physical Fitness standards are higher, the marksmanship standards are higher and the general proficiency levels required are higher than the Army asks for, plus there are additional skills in the Corps, such as swimming and water survival skills, that do not enter into Army experience unless you join the Ranger Regiment or Special Forces.

That's not to say that Marine Corps Infantry are equivalent to Rangers or Special Forces, far from it.  But the USMC infantry falls somewhere squarely between Army Infantry and Ranger Regiment qualifications.

If my son some day came up to me and said "Dad, I want to join the Infantry, what do you think about the Marines vs. the Army?"  I would say "Son, both organizations serve the United States honorably and have much to recommend them, but the Marine Corps is the better outfit as far as soldier training, and thus survivability are concerned. Unless you eventually want to go Special Forces or Rangers, then the USMC is probably the best bet."

Of course, I might point him to my cousin's husband for a different view as he spent 23 years in the Air Force, 17 of those as a Pararescue Jumper.

Are you being serious or are you some kind of dumbass?

No.  no passes, no dessert, phone usage was extremely rare.  Weekend off??  BWAHAHAHA!  And no fucking rosegarden....but there sure was a lot of fertilizer.

basic for the marines is a lot longet, and more intense than the army

True. Proof? If you're a former Marine and join the Army, you don't go to basic. If you're former Army and join the Marine Corps, you go to Boot Camp like everyone else. In fact, IIRC, no service requires former Marines to go to their basic training. The USMC requires everyone goes through Boot Camp.
The moral?  Man for man, a basically trained Marine is better trained, more disciplined and more prepared to serve in the Armed Forces than any other basically trained service member.

Actually, we got one weekend off, Family Weekend.  It occurred at about the breaking point between the Basic phase of Infantry OSUT and the AIT phase, but that's a real fuzzy line.   IF we had family coming down to visit, we could leave for one night and a day I believe, but that was only after a pretty extensive uniform inspection of class A's and a whole pile of hurry up and wait crap.

Sunday's were generally pretty slow speed, a recovery day.  Minimal PT, minimal duty other than normal barracks maintenance.  Most guys spent the day cleaning clothing and gear, writing letters and studying.  Some time was usually allowed on Sundays for telephone calls.
Church was optional.

The next big break was likely to occu after graduation.  If you were shipping off to the basic airborne course, you might have a weekend, a few days, a week or no time at all off between graduation and starting airborne training. If you were heading off to your first duty station, then you will often get 2-3 weeks of PCS leave. If you go to Airborne and then are scheduled to go to RIP (Ranger Indoctrination Program) you will have NO time off between the end of Airborne and RIP, you go almost directly from graduation to RIP.  RIP lasts 3 weeks or so, if you pass RIP, you do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars, go directly to your assigned BN to begin duty.  The Ranger Battallions take leave in battallions so that they do not upset the RDF schedules with men missing from units on leave should deployment orders come in.  If the Battallion you are assigned to just had leave last month, you are SOL until next year.  If they are on leave when you arrive, you may luck out and be allowed to go home for the remainder of their scheduled leave period.  

Things may have changed since 1990 though.

It wasn't a myth.  There were articles about them in several national magazines and in my local paper with pictures.  I also heard a colonel that's in the local National Guard complain about having to use them when he was a major.  I think the Army decided against using them after trying them out for a while.z

Both army and marine had them, the army in selected locations.  They were abandoned quite some time ago, at least in the Army.

In my cycle at MCRD SD, we had a recruit that was former army, & was a DI when he crossed over. Back in boot camp.[:D]
He aid it was much harder than Army boot camp.

Is this a trick question?

I cannot speak for the other services, but the Marine Corps never had "stress cards."   About the time the myth was going around I knew quite a few series and company COs at both depots, they said BS when I asked them about them.

Never any stress or timeout cards in the USMC.

In bootcamp, I saw the most physically fit get broken down.  No matter how strong you are, you will be pushed beyond your limit.  I've seen an entire platoon collapse in pools of their own sweat.

On Parris Island, if you do something right, you get to do remedial PT in a big sand pit.  If you do something wrong, you get to do remedial PT in a big sand pit.  If you have never done physical activity in loose sand, it sucks hard... especially when you have to wear that uniform for the rest of the day with sand in every crevice.  Remedial PT is basically doing excercises just as fast as you can when the DI orders you to... "PUSH!...RUN!....MOUNTAIN CLIMBERS!....PUSH!....NO I SAID RUN!"  You trasition as fast as you possibly can while screaming to the top of your lungs "Aye Sir!!"  If you aren't fast or loud enough to please the DI (you never will be)... he just keeps going.

After 13 weeks of boot camp, you get 10 days leave then report to School Of Infantry where you either go to Marine Combat Training (for POG's) for 4.5-5 weeks or Infantry Training Batallion (for grunts) for a little over 2 months.  Here, you will be treated just a tad bit better than you were as a recruit in boot camp.  For POG's, you still go to your MOS school after MCT.  Some MOS's aren't considered fleet Marines for over a year.  Some of the aircrew schools are 12 months.  Usually, grunts are sent to more schools after they finish SOI, Desert Warfare Training at 29 Palms, especially.

I talked to guys who were former Army, former AF, and former Navy and they all said that USMC boot camp was much harder than they had experienced.

Big Bitches and Motherfuckers. Ouchy.

LoL..how can someone even suggest the Army Boot camp is in the same league as MarineCorps. We did 13 weeks of regular BOOTcamp and then 30 days infantry training AND then you went to your schools. And the USMC isnt co-ed , plus we dont go home for holidays like ALL the others. Ya dont get any more physical than USMC, and even in Bootcamp itself there are diff. levels , I was in 3rd battalion which, supposedly was harder than 1 & 2, so dunno about that one.

To tell ya the diff in bootcamps. Once ya go through USMC bootcamp , ya dont have to attend any other bootcamps if ya switch branches of service. But if ya was army, air-force or Navy and ya wanna join the Marines, ya gotta go through USMC bootcamp.

But from what I hear even USMC bootcamp isnt the same any more, so dunno.


OOHRAW, 89-93

OK,
USMC may be harder, a lot harder...well let's say more intense, but US Army 11B OSUT at Sand Hill in 1984 was a bitch. I'm glad I chose the Army, The USMC recruiter acted like king shit to me and my father when he came over the house to recruit me.

I know a few ex-marines, I am glad to say they did not pick up this king shit attitude. We compaired notes. USMC boot was more intense as noted in other posts. We aggreed that it was equal in bull shit we had to put up with.

Looking back, it was a blast... I got the biggest kick out of that first day.. [pound]  [LOL]

Piece of cake. I was surprised to find that contrary to popular experience my recruiter lied to me. He said it would be hard! Never told me about the condo I got, sailing on weekends, most evenings off to party with the guys and pick up chicks. Damn, I wish I could go back. LOL. [ROFL2]

I was platoon honorman and damn proud of it. Ooh-rah!
FWIW, I can tell you when I went through airports and ran into the other services I always found it amusing. The Army expecially had tons of crap on their uniforms: Rope, badges, bullshit metals, etc. The civies would ooh and aah at it. Marine Corps uniforms are clean and cool as hell. The other servicemen knew who the badasses were. Enough said.

[peep]

Even today, I wouldn't say it's a cake walk.  Granted I haven't been through either, hopefully I will go through Army soon.

USMC is supposed to be more intense.

Anyways, back to my rant.  There are washouts in any branch, and these are people who volunteered to do it.  I'd bet if you grabbed 100 civilians randomly off the street and tried to make em do it, many would wash out.  I feel that no matter what branch you go through basic, once you're through, you should be proud.  After all, you are now a member of the most powerful military ever.  Be proud that you have be come a Sailor, Airman, Marine, or Soldier.

I was in Ft Benning 1988 Harmony Church(old WWII vintage barrecks) has for not being able
not to touch you Ive been rearranged a few times, on a road march I had a little trouble keeping pace, and I was grabbed by collar and thrown into the ditch. I just took it like a soldier and rucked up and moved on. mind you a little out of pace, not holding anything up. but I know we were training for real combat not for some job, so I did not get pissed off, I knew my life would depend on this training.
Its all in the attitude. go in give it everything you have and you will make it. I never regreted the training not one bit.

I made it 13 Weeks. then I was shipped of to alaska.

I think it has more to do with this:

The Army doesn't send Marines to basic training because they already know how to act like soldiers.

The Marine Corps sends soldiers to MCRD because they need to learn how to act like sailors.

The quality control of Army BCT leaves this question hard to answer.  The quality standard for Army is of course much lower than Marines but the best of each is very close.

The one difference is swimming.  Very few Army cycles get any swimming training but I had the goo misfortune to get wet.  0300 on one bivouac a mighty thunderstorm flooded the site.  The few good Joes had their fartsacks stowed in the waterproof bag before the storm surge flushed camp.  We broke camp hastily with many soldiers losing gear but not one rifle.  Ever try road marching with saturated packs?  Saturated boots too.  

At NTC, we shared a mess with some Marines who offered a few PVT's for KP.  They were tasked with lighting the griddle one morning.  They didn't know they had light it with a match and waited for the griddle to get hot on gas flow alone-no flame.  Well, after 10 minutes, they asked and found out they had to use a match.  We told them "wait 5 minutes for the gas to clear".  5 minutes must have been confused with 5 seconds because shortly after there was a "WOOF" followed with an "OH CRAP" and other cries.  PFC Jar Head had removed his high and tight, eyebrows and facial hair by the flame method.  Complete with large areas of 1st and 2nd degree burns.  PVT Pyle then took first aid measures AGAINST OUR ADVICE of slathering the burn area with BUTTER.  Yes, straight from the refrigerator.  

When the meat wagon showed up, we had one crispy, buttered USMC PFC.  I pity what he got at the aide station.  Probably a surgerical scrub brush and betadine wash to the face before dressing with Silvadene creme.  We never talked about this with him afterward.

What is long and hard on a Marine?  2nd grade.  

LMAO. That's a good one.
I'd have to admit the average IQ of the jarheads I served with was not terribly high but they were the best bunch of guys I've ever been around. Besides I was offered a slot at Annapolis(needed to bring up the mean IQ!). grad Magna Cum Laude in College, and managed to slug my way thru med school. What the hell...

I entered Marine Corps boot camp in 1991 and my brother entered Army in 1985. We compared stories and It sounds to me like Army was A LOT more relaxed than Marine Corps. He Got to listen to walkmans and a lot more freedom on their own time.
We where lucky to get our own time.
There was so much crap crammed to in 13 weeks of Marine Corps Boot camp that we hardly had time to get anything done. Every minute was planned, down to taking a crap.
Thank you House Mouse. (Scribe)

I went Marine Corps, and my brother went Army Airborne (101st).  He thought of it as a job.  You guys already KNOW how I feel about the Corps and my fellow Marines.

If you don't feel that your branch of service is the best, then you need to rethink your priorities.

I'm proud of anyone who served or tried to serve.  Beats the hell out the damned Anarchists.

Addendum: Would LIKE to beat the hell out of some damned anarchists.

couple things. 1)you cant really compare Army and Marine Corps because you cant even compare FT. Benning to Jackson. Army basic is diff from each other. I was in Benning about 1.5 years ago and there were guys who had been there at Benning and Paris Island. they said(and it supprised me) that Benning was actually harder. He said it was because in the Marines you get beaten down and then they start rebiulding you about half way through it. Benning brings you down until about week 13 than builds you up the last week. treated like shit the whole time. I havent actually been to parris island my self so i dont really know. I did talk to some marines in airborne school though and there stories didnt seem any harder than what we whent through. back to the comparing, some of you mentioned samesex basic in the Army? well again, like i said Benning is alot different than the rest of ther Army's basic units. And when you go into the Infantry there is no didfferance in basic and AIT, its all the same people, Drills, and places in a longer time block teaching you how to close with and kill the enemy whil saving your hide and your buddie's next to you.

2) someone tried to rate Marines between Army Rangers and regular infantry. DOes anyone even really know the Differance between an Army Infantryman and a Ranger? anyone? Cuz if you didnt know, not all the soldiers in the three Ranger Bats. are ranger qual. and they belong to the 18Th Airborne Corps like 10th Mountain, 82nd, 101st and 3rd ID. and in alot of the Infantry units that belong to these divisons you have alot of ranger qualified soldiers leading and fighting. SF groups are the only units that require you to be SF qual. to be in them.

3)anywhere(outside of combat) you go its what you make of it. and though it may sound bad, thank the shitbags in your units because you learn what not to do from them and you can stay out of the spotlight.

[sniper2]