www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/11/20/185048.shtml

I don't mind fending for myself but if the US Government declares Martial Law, it's over...

Franks then offered “in a practical sense” what he thinks would happen in the aftermath of such an attack. “It means the potential of a weapon of mass destruction and a terrorist, massive, casualty-producing event somewhere in the Western world – it may be in the United States of America – that causes our population to question our own Constitution and to begin to militarize our country in order to avoid a repeat of another mass, casualty-producing event. Which in fact, then begins to unravel the fabric of our Constitution. Two steps, very, very important.”

Well,  this is just fucking great isn't it???

I'm glad I'm a gun nut with all kinds of scary weapons, ammo, and extra food around the house.

[DU]So naturally, BushCo will commit such an attack as an excuse to enslave us.  It fits perfectly with their fraudulent wars against terror supporting states with WMD programs[/DU]

Gen. Tommy Franks says that if the United States is hit with a weapon of mass destruction that inflicts large casualties, the Constitution will likely be discarded in favor of a military form of government.

All the more reason to quit playing our PC games and worrying about who we may offend and crush these bastards into the sand...

Gen. Tommy Franks says that if the United States is hit with a weapon of mass destruction that inflicts large casualties, the Constitution will likely be discarded in favor of a military form of government.
Franks, who successfully led the U.S. military operation to liberate Iraq, expressed his worries in an extensive interview he gave to the men’s lifestyle magazine Cigar Aficionado.

In the magazine’s December edition, the former commander of the military’s Central Command warned that if terrorists succeeded in using a weapon of mass destruction (WMD) against the U.S. or one of our allies, it would likely have catastrophic consequences for our cherished republican form of government.

Discussing the hypothetical dangers posed to the U.S. in the wake of Sept. 11, Franks said that “the worst thing that could happen” is if terrorists acquire and then use a biological, chemical or nuclear weapon that inflicts heavy casualties.

If that happens, Franks said, “... the Western world, the free world, loses what it cherishes most, and that is freedom and liberty we’ve seen for a couple of hundred years in this grand experiment that we call democracy.”

Franks then offered “in a practical sense” what he thinks would happen in the aftermath of such an attack.

“It means the potential of a weapon of mass destruction and a terrorist, massive, casualty-producing event somewhere in the Western world – it may be in the United States of America – that causes our population to question our own Constitution and to begin to militarize our country in order to avoid a repeat of another mass, casualty-producing event. Which in fact, then begins to unravel the fabric of our Constitution. Two steps, very, very important.”

Franks didn’t speculate about how soon such an event might take place.

Already, critics of the U.S. Patriot Act, rushed through Congress in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, have argued that the law aims to curtail civil liberties and sets a dangerous precedent.

But Franks’ scenario goes much further. He is the first high-ranking official to openly speculate that the Constitution could be scrapped in favor of a military form of government.

The usually camera-shy Franks retired from U.S. Central Command, known in Pentagon lingo as CentCom, in August 2003, after serving nearly four decades in the Army.

Franks earned three Purple Hearts for combat wounds and three Bronze Stars for valor. Known as a “soldier’s general,” Franks made his mark as a top commander during the U.S.’s successful Operation Desert Storm, which liberated Kuwait in 1991. He was in charge of CentCom when Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaeda attacked the United States on Sept. 11.

Franks said that within hours of the attacks, he was given orders to prepare to root out the Taliban in Afghanistan and to capture bin Laden.

Franks offered his assessment on a number of topics to Cigar Aficionado, including:

President Bush: “As I look at President Bush, I think he will ultimately be judged as a man of extremely high character. A very thoughtful man, not having been appraised properly by those who would say he’s not very smart. I find the contrary. I think he’s very, very bright. And I suspect that he’ll be judged as a man who led this country through a crease in history effectively. Probably we’ll think of him in years to come as an American hero.”

On the motivation for the Iraq war: Contrary to claims that top Pentagon brass opposed the invasion of Iraq, Franks said he wholeheartedly agreed with the president’s decision to invade Iraq and oust Saddam Hussein.

“I, for one, begin with intent. ... There is no question that Saddam Hussein had intent to do harm to the Western alliance and to the United States of America. That intent is confirmed in a great many of his speeches, his commentary, the words that have come out of the Iraqi regime over the last dozen or so years. So we have intent.

“If we know for sure ... that a regime has intent to do harm to this country, and if we have something beyond a reasonable doubt that this particular regime may have the wherewithal with which to execute the intent, what are our actions and orders as leaders in this country?”

The Pentagon’s deck of cards: Asked how the Pentagon decided to put its most-wanted Iraqis on a set of playing cards, Franks explained its genesis. He recalled that when his staff identified the most notorious Iraqis the U.S. wanted to capture, “it just turned out that the number happened to be about the same as a deck of cards. And so somebody said, ‘Aha, this will be the ace of spades.’”

Capturing Saddam: Franks said he was not surprised that Saddam has not been captured or killed. But he says he will eventually be found, perhaps sooner than Osama bin laden.

“The capture or killing of Saddam Hussein will be a near term thing. And I won’t say that’ll be within 19 or 43 days. ... I believe it is inevitable.”

Franks ended his interview with a less-than-optimistic note. “It’s not in the history of civilization for peace ever to reign. Never has in the history of man. ... I doubt that we’ll ever have a time when the world will actually be at peace.”




If that ever happens, all bets are off, it will be a new era, new rules.

Gen. Tommy Franks says that if the United States is hit with a weapon of mass destruction that inflicts large casualties, the Constitution will likely be discarded in favor of a military form of government.

I don't care what General Tommy-Boy says.

THAT will start the Olympics of SHIT!!!

Actually........I look forward to the day.

But I'm told I'm an "extremist".....So what do I know?

When the govt declares martial law, guest what they are going to confiscate first and who the govt is going to send to do the job?

Declaration of martial law will cause a *huge* cry from EVERYONE, left and right.

Starting confiscation of law abiding American's firearms under martial law WILL start a shooting war in this country.

I'll be DAMNED if this Nation is under direct attack that I will willinging give up my arms for the promise of some sort of security by .gov.

FUCK THAT!

I think most LEOs realize it would be suicide and I would be surprised if they would follow orders. And in SHTF, who is to say their pensions will remain in tact when it's all said and done? And it is the fear of losing the pension that seems to motivate some to follow illegal orders.

Ever read "Patriots: Surviving the Coming Collapse"???

If not,  go get it,  that book is seeming less like fiction every day,  it really is.

If this happens and they come to confiscate mine, I'll gladly give em mine...
.... one bullet at a time.

Quoted: Declaration of martial law will cause a *huge* cry from EVERYONE, left and right. Starting confiscation of law abiding American's firearms under martial law WILL start a shooting war in this country. I'll be DAMNED if this Nation is under direct attack that I will willinging give up my arms for the promise of some sort of security by .gov. FUCK THAT!

I have extra special SHTF foil for sale.

Dial 1-800-666-OhNo!

Quoted: Declaration of martial law will cause a *huge* cry from EVERYONE, left and right.

Nope, most every Joe-sixpack and Soccermom will scream in support of Martial Law.  As always they will gladly trade freedom for security.

where does the jewish conspiracy come into play here?

Quoted: Quoted: Declaration of martial law will cause a *huge* cry from EVERYONE, left and right. Nope, most every Joe-sixpack and Soccermom will scream in support of Martial Law.  As always they will gladly trade freedom for security.

Well I'm not joe sixpack and I'm certainly no soccer mom.  Some guys at work and I were talking just the other day about why I want evil black rifles instead of just hunting firearms, and I told them, look, its my duty and the duty of millions of others like me to make sure that nobody ever throws away the constitution, ever, for any reason, and just declares themselves emperor or puts a military junta in power.  Everyone says it can't happen here, but how many other developed, seemingly stable countries have had it happen just in the last 50 years?

Anyone who throws out the constitution in favor of a military government, for any reason, won't live to see his next birthday.  And that includes "suspending" the constitution for a "temporary" period of time.  I'll gladly give up my life to get the shot in, and so will alot of other people.  Someone will get through.

That is an excellent interview.  Once again I am impressed with what a total pro Gen. Franks is.  He is not afraid to voice an unpleasant vision of the future of the war on terror.

It sounds to me like he doesn't want this to happen anymore than we do.

Quoted: Quoted: Declaration of martial law will cause a *huge* cry from EVERYONE, left and right. Nope, most every Joe-sixpack and Soccermom will scream in support of Martial Law.  As always they will gladly trade freedom for security.

Supposed security.

Did everyone get -Duke-Nukem-'s point?

I'll go along with -Duke- on this one.  I've made up my mind that if the worst does happen I will not live as a slave to the State.

If I can manage to reduce the number of those seeking to send this country to hell before they take me out, then I've done a service to those that remain to carry on the fight.

We should be getting back to the Constitution not getting away from it. Its the ONLY solution that will work!

Quoted: I think most LEOs realize it would be suicide and I would be surprised if they would follow orders. And in SHTF, who is to say their pensions will remain in tact when it's all said and done? And it is the fear of losing the pension that seems to motivate some to follow illegal orders.

If martial law is declared, and gun confiscation begins, it WILL NOT be non-federalized local law enforcment doing the dirty work.

Quoted: where does the jewish conspiracy come into play here?

[tinfoil on]The Mossad and Israel will be behind it. [/tinfoil on]

Martial law requires a military in support.
All soldiers swear to "uphold and defend the constitution"  I believe there would be a great internal struggel within the Army, specifically the national guard, and that this struggle will find the constitution on the winning side.
The RA soldiers probably would do as told, but the RA officers, especially the company grade, would refuse.  The national guard would be much more likely to refuse an order of an unrestricted martial law.
If, however, instead of total martial law, it was something akin to the internment of the japanese in WWII, only with Arabs this time, the military would probably support that.  But a complete suspension of constitutional rights for all americans I do not believe would enjoy the support of the military required to carry it out.
I would be court-martialed first.

How many of you paranoid freaks have had a little too much time with your herbal remedies?

Martial law would mean something like what happened to the Japanese during WWII.  Again, why was that?  Because the government feared the Japanese?  Not quite so fast, it was because the government feared what would happen to the Japanese under the CITIZENS.

So who did they restrict?

Relax kids, the adults are in control.

Quoted: I think most LEOs realize it would be suicide and I would be surprised if they would follow orders.

Should the unthinkable happen, it won't be LEO's who come.

5sub

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=750017


Looks like the leftists found the article too.

CRC

Tommy Franks IS ONLY SPEAKING FOR HIMSELF folks.  He's speculating.

As for credible sources, Newsmax isn't at the top of my list, neither is Cigar Afficionado.  Time to get real folks.  If someone does succeed in popping of a WMD in the US all bets are off anyhow.  How long did it take for the US government to get its act together in the wake of WTC?  How many federal and municipal resources were EXHAUSTED simply dealing with that?  Now imagine how stretched out those same resources would be were someone to pop off a nuke in NYC or a Smallpox attack?  I can tell you one thing for damned certain.  The LAST thing the government would waste time doing is going door to door confiscating weapons.   At worst they would bring maximum force to bear on ANYONE who seemed to be making matters worse (like looters). In the case of a bio attack, they would be working to isolate outbreak pockets to limit disease spread while they quickly seek to surround those pockets with immunized populations.

It would be bad, really bad, but one thing WTC proved was that America has an incredible will to survive and an incredible capacity to pull together when the chips are down.  No-one in the world can match our resolve under those circumstances.

Instead of preparing to isolate yourselves from everyone else in the world should there be a major disturbance in the force so to speak, you should be building ties in your communities so that if something awful does happen, you become an invaluable and trusted part of the solution rather than another fucking problem that needs solving.

I love the comparisons between the America of 1941 vs. the America of 2003.  Anyone that thinks this is the same country and that the people and government will act and respond the same way now as we did then is kidding themselves.

In 1941 we were attacked and FEWER people were killed at Pearl Harbor than were lost at the WTC/Pentagon.

What did we do in 1941?  We declared war, the country INSTANTLY unified and we sought out and destroyed those that sought to destroy us.

What’s happened since 9/11.  Yes, Afghanistan and Iraq to be sure but what HASN’T happened is the unification of America.  There are LOTS of people out there that 9/11 is a distant memory or has been totally forgotten.  We have high profile politicians, “celebrities” and religious leaders asking us to understand why the Muslims hate us and actually APOLOGIZING to them for OUR actions that provoked them to terrorism.

WHAT THE FUCK?!?

If anyone believes that Muslims/Arabs will be rounded up for “their own protection” after another attack… BULLSHIT.  Politicians will use the “protection” excuse but it will come in the form of disarming the American people.  They know this would be their big chance.  Their cherished wet dream to finally and once and for all neutralize that pesky balance of power between the Government and the People.  The Government wants the whole enchilada and such an opportunity won’t go unused.

So basically...... we will destroy the U.S. Constitution in response to a terrorist attempt to destroy the U.S. Constitution!?!?!???

WTF!???

WHAT THE FUCK!?!??


What in the FUCK kind of answer is that to a WMD attack on the US????

So I guess nuking Mecca, Medina, Riyadh, Damascus, Beirut, Palestine, Tehran, Jordan and Yemen is LESS desirable than nuking the U.S. Constitution?

Can someone please explain WHAT THE FUCK that's all about!???

Quoted: www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=750017 Looks like the leftists found the article too. CRC

Note to self #46575:

Order more ammo.
Clean guns.
Establish secure perimeter.
Secure tin foil hat snug to skull.

Quoted: where does the jewish conspiracy come into play here?

You know...The usual Jewish Bankers and Media did it!

Put on your tin foil yamaka(sp)

No, the JBT's won't touch the Jews. THAT would be un-PC...They'll be coming after the WASP's. You know, that vast right wing conspiracy of angry white men...So, it'll be up to you to defend us. Are you up for the task?

Quoted: Quoted: hotlinkremoved Looks like the leftists found the article too. CRC

Damn you got 10k posts and you are hotlinking to DU, you drinking or something?

Kill that fucker.

Quoted: How many of you paranoid freaks have had a little too much time with your herbal remedies? Martial law would mean something like what happened to the Japanese during WWII.  Again, why was that?  Because the government feared the Japanese?  Not quite so fast, it was because the government feared what would happen to the Japanese under the CITIZENS. So who did they restrict? Relax kids, the adults are in control.

Yeah, and we don't have anything against the regular citizens in Iraq, we just want to take the nasty guns away from them so nothing bad happens!

Hmm, makes sense martial law comes and the gummint takes over the transportation network and implements the plans that include breweries canning water instead of beer and start moving food and water in for distribution are you guys gonna be out shooting the traitorous truckdrivers too?  After all we wouldn't want them delivering free water would we?  And food, let's not let the gumming bring in food.  That would make your supplies redundant and you couldn't shoot the neighbor ladies.

If ther is in fact a major WMD confiscating weapons from the lunatic arms fringe is going to be way down the priority list unless the bozos start shooting anything that moves.

Ohmigawd ohmigawd there goes a police car I think I'll shoot him just in case after all I've now been annointed Judge and Jury and who know he might be off on an emergency call, so I'll shoot him just to make sure he doesn't oppress anybody he's taking to a casualty collection point.

Yeah shoot the guys protecting the food and water supplies, that makes sense.

Here comes a train with Federal supplies, quick blow it up, wouldn't want the masses being fed with that nasty Federal aid would we?

The scary thought is that it seems as if this is something they have already played out and have a response plan for?????????!!!!!!HHHMMMMMMMMM!!!!

Must double efforts! More ammo, food, water, etc, etc, etc!!!!!!

From my cold dead fingers.

A nuke goes off in a major city there will be martial law declared at least in that region.  And I suspect that nationwide every service person, reserve and active, would be pulling security detail somewhere.  

As for weapon confiscation I doubt it.  Franks is grandstanding to point out the importance of defeating these terror networks.  If you live in the reion of a nuke blast it is likely that you will have to worry more about your fellow survivors than .gov harmng you.  JMHO

Sad thing is that it is not if but when and we all know it.

Quoted: A nuke goes off in a major city there will be martial law declared at least in that region.  And I suspect that nationwide every service person, reserve and active, would be pulling security detail somewhere.   As for weapon confiscation I doubt it.  Franks is grandstanding to point out the importance of defeating these terror networks.  If you live in the reion of a nuke blast it is likely that you will have to worry more about your fellow survivors than .gov harmng you.  JMHO Sad thing is that it is not if but when and we all know it.

I agree with Valkyrie on this one. If the citizens in the area of the disaster behave as well as the Manhattanites did after 9/11 then it will be a localized thing.

I don't think the people of NYC got enough credit for their cool behavior and it gives me faith that we might weather the next 'storm'.

What worries me is if a domino effect starts in other major cities when major transportation or services are stopped for a period of time: if a Piggly-Wiggly doesn't open in an urban area or if the welfare checks don't go out, etc. Then it could get out of hand fast...

What kind of an answer did you expect from a military man??? WTF ???

And just where did you think all the LEO will come from to take our weapons? There ain't enough of them to go around!!

And I personally know FBI Special Agents who WILL NOT SUPPORT a suspension of the US Constitution! After all, THAT is the document they have sworn to uphold and defend. There will be lots of infighting in the Governmental ranks should this EVER be attempted.

It isn't such an easy thing to do. And then there is the "SHADOW" Government that was ready to put into place durring 9/11/01. I fear that more than some hot air from retired General.

Besides, IT WILL NEVER HAPEN!! How in the hell will the Republicans or Democrats remain in power if the Constitution gets suspended? This is the real reason it'll never happen.

Take a look at this from the DU.
"Bleachers7  (1000+ posts)       Fri Nov-21-03 01:35 AM
Response to Original message

14. Actually... It is legal.

Edited on Fri Nov-21-03 01:37 AM by Bleachers7
I think there are provisions for martial law in the constitution. I need to check.

Hit this link.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=martial+law+%2B+constitution

This makes me feel like buying a gun.


"
NoKarma

No kidding.....The days right after 9/11 our areas (VA,DC,MD) and surrounding areas were very close to been Martial Law.  The National guards were on street patrol.  Lucky there were no riots, trouble or chaos or else Martial Law would be declared. The General is right, we should be prepared for such.

Quoted: No kidding.....The days right after 9/11 our areas (VA,DC,MD) and surrounding areas were very close to been Martial Law.  The National guards were on street patrol.  Lucky there were no riots, trouble or chaos or else Martial Law would be declared. The General is right, we should be prepared for such.

Martial Law has been declared in the past.  Lincoln did it during the Civil War.  Guess what happened when things cooled down?  Restoration of civil government.  FDR essentially Federalized everything for the Great Depression/New Deal and WWII, guess what happened when it ended, civil rule and privatization returns (not completely FDR built a lot of durable institutions. )

If another major attack takes place, Martial Law is likely in that localized environment and just as happened after 9/11, it'll go away wehn things cool down.

 You aren't going to see weapons confiscations though, not unless a bunch of yahoos start living out their "end of the world" fantasies and start shooting up innocents.  The police and federal authorities will have their plates full to overflowing with critical missions, so as long as you are not part of their problems, they will NOT CARE about you or your guns.

When Adolph Hitler came to power in Germany,Germany was also a democracy(of sorts).The military ended up doing what it was told to do.People behave in very similar manner no matter what culture they descend from.Look at the "defenses used at nuremberg,and at other war crimes trials."I was following orders"."I was only a soldier"Soldiers follow orders.Soldiers are NOT ROBOTS,but they are human.If they are Told some fucking doublespeak bullshit and that it is for"National Security"it will happen.

...and if they do send out confiscation squads, it probably won't be current military.Maybe some LEO's will be involved.

The .gov always finds a way to round up goons who will do their dirty work, and there are plenty of power hungry goons out there that would cum their pants at the thought of having confiscation powers.

WooHoo!

http://www.pre-ban.com/forums/html/emoticons/tinfoil.gif

Declaring martial law in response to an attack against a CLEARLY DEFINED enemy with a KNOWN LOCATION would not by itself be so bad.

But declaring martial law in response to terrorist activity by a nebulously defined enemy that has no defined home origin WOULD be the straw that broke the camel's back.   I truly believe that THAT action would result in outright rebellion against the government.  A true shooting war.

If ONE PERCENT of the population were to actively prosecute this war against a tyrannical government, it would PROBABLY be enough to call it a revolution...and win it.  TWO percent WOULD be enough, beyond a doubt.   And once it STARTED, others who wouldn't want to be involved in the start of a revolution would still choose to join in, and eventual participation could hit ten percent, and more.  That would be truly impressive.

I don't doubt for an instant that We The People could seize ALL control back to ourselves, but it would only happen if certain key events were to happen.  Declaring martial law against an undefined enemy would be such a keystone event.

Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that martial law would supersede these guarantees of individual rights and liberties.

It is not martial law itself that I fear most, it is that there are those in our government who would shamelessly (and soullessly) exploit it to grab power for themselves.   That CAN NOT be allowed to happen.   It is worth all our lives to ensure that it will not happen.


CJ

Well, I'm a LEO, and I'm coming for your weapons...and you to join me in killing every raghead with the guts to attack us at home.