I respect John Kennedys military service.

Yup that's about it.

His Dad was a bootlegger tied to the mobs who tried to purchase political positions for all 3 kids using his bootleg cash and mob connections for union votes, etc.

Ted Kennedy drove a car into a lake and drowned some chick he was trying to bang and then covered it up to the best of his ability.

Robert Kennedy was big into many of the 60s socialist crap so screw him.

I think John was 'probably' a decent guy and paid for the sins of his family.

Quoted: Wasn't the old man, Joe, part of the appeasment crowd aong with Chamberlin in England before WWII? Definaatly against the war.. fullclip

Ah-hah!

Now you've brought up one of the more quirky aspects of the conspiracy theorists' story -

The 'Umbrella Man' at Dealey Plaza!

In the Zapruder film, there is a man with an umbrella standing behind the large Stemmons Freeway sign right in front of the area on Elm Street where Kennedy was shot.

In this pic, you can see a part of the umbrella the man is holding with the Kennedy limousine passing.



The conspiracy theorists contend that as the Kennedy Motocade got to a prearranged point on Elm Street, the 'Umbrella Man' 'pumped' the umbrella up and down several times, as the signal to the assassins to 'open fire'!

After the motorcade passes, you can see the Umbrella Man calmly fold up his umbrella and walk away.

Unfortunately for the conspiracy buffs, we know the identity of the Umbrella Man.

But before I get there, let's see what the conspiracy buffs say about this 'key player' in the coordinated murder of the President:

"Two main theories have been come up concerning the Umbrella man. The first says that both men provided signals for the hidden gunmen. Certainly, this presumes that Kennedy was killed by a coordinated crossfire, perhaps with the help of radiomen. The two men were among the closest bystanders when Kennedy was struck. They possibly gave signals that JFK was not fatally hit and more shots were needed. Gary Shaw provided an interesting twist in this theory. He said that the umbrella was a last-second sign of who was responsible for the assassination. Shaw explained that throughout the planning of the Bay of Pigs invasion, the CIA promised an "umbrella" air protection of the invaders. Kennedy refused to authorize this military support. Therefore, the man with the open umbrella symbolized the promise of an air-support "umbrella" while the dark-complected man may have been a person --- perhaps an anti-Castro Cuban leader --- that Kennedy was familiar with."

That is from 'conspiracy expert', Ralph Schuster.

Now, who was this Umbrella Man?

Dallas insurance salesman Louis Steven Witt!

Now, before you think that this myserious man simply vanished into thin air, without so much as a trace, think again!

Here is his testimony before the Warren Commission:

*                    *                    *

Mr. GENZMAN. Why were you carrying an umbrella that day?

Mr. WITT. Actually, I was going to use this umbrella to heckle the President's motorcade.

Mr. GENZMAN. How had you gotten this idea?

Mr. WITT. In a coffee break conversation someone had mentioned that the umbrella was a sore spot with the Kennedy family. Being a conservative-type fellow, I sort of placed him in the liberal camp and I was just going to kind of do a little heckling.

Mr. GENZMAN. Are you saying you were going to use the umbrella as a symbol for the purpose of heckling?

Mr. WITT. I think that would cover it. . .

Mr. GENZMAN. You testified that you were opening the umbrella to use it as a symbol hoping to catch the President's eye?

Mr. WITT. Yes, sir.

Mr. GENZMAN. Could you elaborate further as to the type of symbol you thought you were applying?

Mr. WITT. . . . I just knew the vague generalities of it. It had something to do with something that happened years ago with the senior Joe Kennedy when he was Ambassador to England. . . .

Mr. GENZMAN. Mr. Witt, some assassination critics have alleged your actions with your umbrella were a signal to an assassin or to assassins to fire or a signal that the President had in fact been hit. Were you signaling to anyone besides the President?

Mr. WITT. No; no one. . . .

Mr. FAUNTROY. I wonder if you would care to tell us a little more about your understanding of the significance of the umbrella, and why you felt that it would heckle the president to raise the umbrella?

Mr. WITT. . . . It had something to do with . . . when the senior Mr. Kennedy was Ambassador to England, and the Prime Minister [Neville Chamberlain], some activity they had had in appeasing Hitler. The umbrella that the Prime Minister of England came back with got to be a symbol in some manner with the British people. By association, it got transferred ot the Kennedy family, and, as I understood, it was a sore spot with the Kennedy family, like I said, in coffee break conversations someone had mentioned, I think it is one of the towns in Arizona, it is Tucson or Phoenix, that someone had been out at the airport or some place where some members of the Kennedy family came through and they were rather irritated by the fact that they were brandishing the umbrellas. This is how the idea sort of got stuck in my mind. . . . This was in a conversation somewhere at work. I wish that I could remember now who brought the subject up and put this idea in my head. I am sure that I would have taken that umbrella and clouted him over the head somewhere in this last 2 or 3 weeks.

*                    *                    *

So, businessman Witt was 'heckling' JFK by shaking an umbrella at him as the motorcade drove past?!

You know what the conspiracy theorists say about Witt's testimony?

It sounded 'coached'!

Give me a break!

Eric The(EasyDoesIt)Hun

Whoa, some of y'all are saying that the Kennedy Assassination was a shattering of the Constitutional method by which we select our leaders!

That no matter how badly Kennedy was governing, no matter in what wrong direction he was leading our country, no matter what personal faults he may have had as a man, he should not have been killed by anyone!

That is true, for there is a Constitutionally provided method for the removal of a President if that be the will of the people, as expressed by their Representatives in Congress!

But.....

The Republic of South Vietnam also had its own Constitution, and it also had a duly elected President of that nation.

But such niceties as those did not prevent what occurred in November, 1963, not in Dallas, but in Saigon!

Where was the respect for the Constitution and the Will of the People in South Vietnam?

When 17 South Vietnamese Generals approached American officials in Saigon with their proposal to stage a coup d'tat against the sitting President, Ngo Dinh Diem, they received not only encouragement from the US officials, but, in the very end, a 'green light' to murder both President Diem and his brother, Ngo Dinh Nhu.

This coup and the murder of a sitting President was done with the full knowledge of, and the final approval of, President Kennedy.

Now, Kennedy historians will be clever to say that in all of the tapes of the meetings held with the President, there is only one veiled reference made by JFK to the murder of Diem.

But recall, folks, that both Jack and Bobby Kennedy were keenly aware that every word spoken at these meetings was being recorded for posterity!

The other participants were not.

JFK was heard saying that the Diem Brothers should be given sancturary in a Catholic Church in Saigon and then whisked into exile.

That was recorded.

What was not recorded was the President's response to the point that 17 South Vietnamese Generals had insisted that if the coup was to occur, under no conditions would the Diem Brothers be allowed to live!

So President Kennedy approved the coup with the foreknowledge that he was sentencing the Diem Brothers to a certain fate!

On November 1, 1963, the coup occurred, and on November 2, 1963, the Diem Brothers were found in a Catholic Church in Saigon claiming sanctuary. They were taken from the church, put into the back of an armored personnel carrier and shot to death!

Less than three weeks later, Kennedy was himself shot to death.

For all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. Matthew 26:52

Now, at the time, the sister-in-law to President Diem, Madam Nhu, the 'Dragon Lady' as the American Press came to call her, was in the United States on a trip.

As she prepared to leave, at the San Francisco Airport, she made this statement to Jackie Kennedy - 'Ask Mrs. Kennedy how does it feel to have your husband murdered in such a way?'

The American Press had a field day excoriating the Dragon Lady!

But a previous statement Madam Nhu made on November 2, 1963, the day that she received news of her husband and brother-in-law's murder, should be remembered forever:

"If really my family has been treacherously killed with either official or unofficial blessing of the American government, I can predict to you all that the story in Vietnam is only at its beginning."

Yes, just as Madam Nhu predicted, the story in Vietnam was only beginning.

So, you must pardon me if I do not feel a whole lot of pain for that dead President at this moment...I am grieving instead for the US dead in Vietnam who followed him into that dark night.

Eric The(TellingItLikeItIs)Hun

Continue to feel bad?

About what happened on November 22, 1963?

Sure, go right ahead.

Eric The(JustRememberThe10,000DayWar)Hun

Tsk, tsk, tsk, you see how all these stories get started?

We didn't 'avert nuclear war' over Cuba simply because Kennedy pulled the plug on the Bay of Pigs invasion!

StariVojnik, you are simply confused in your timeline of events!

You are thinking of the 'Cuban Missile Crisis' in October, 1962.

The Bay of Pigs invasion occured in April, 1961!

There were no Soviet troops and advisors to speak of in Cuba in 1961, and the Soviet Union did not threaten to go to war with us over this 'invasion.'

What subsequently happened is that the Soviets began arming the Cubans with offensive missiles after the Bay of Pigs Invasion to prevent just such another invasion.

That became the focus point of the Cuban Missile Crisis more than 18 months later!

Get your timeline straight and you will see!

Eric The(Historical)Hun

Wait, Zaphod, there is something even more personal about the Kennedy Brothers participation in the Bay of Pigs Invasion and its aftermath that might cause a few more folks to reassess their views on these two folks.

When Kennedy decided to call off any further air strikes by the two B-26 bombers that were being flown by four members of the Alabama Air National Guard, these men realized when they were ordered grounded that the men on the beach would be without air cover and doomed to die from the counterattack that was coming.

So, instead of obeying these orders, they refueled, rearmed, and went right back into battle, helping to keep Castro's tanks at bay for a little longer.

Unfortunately, these brave men were shot down and killed over Cuba.

When this news was flashed to the White House, that the two planes were missing and presumably shot down over Cuba, Bobby Kennedy rushed into the Oval Office with the note in his hand and yelled, (forgive me, Lord):

'Those god-damned son of a bitches better be dead!

'GD SOBs'? That's what the Attorney General of the United States thought of these men? That's the thought that was shared by his brother, the President?

Now, one can argue all they would like that these pilots of the Alabama Air National Guard disobeyed orders, and their blood was on their own heads.

But not me. They were there at the order of the President of the United States. They had been ordered to fly missions in support of the invasion. They were now being ordered to discontinue that mission, and they, better than the President, knew what the ultimate situation on the ground was at the moment.

I think they could rightfully disobey such orders as being based upon incomplete information from Washington, DC.

But it does not stop there.

The families of the Alabama Air National Guard pilots were denied any benefits from the loss of their husbands and fathers.

Why? Because the Kennedy Brothers knew that if the families were paid benefits it would be an open admission that the United States was behind the thwarted invasion!

As if the entire world didn't already know that!

So, the fabulously wealthy Kennedys were content to have the families of these slain men suffer with not only the heartache of the deaths of their loved ones, but poverty from the loss of their breadwinners.

And the poverty is well remembered by the children of these dead servicemen. I have read their stories....

You know the more I write about the Kennedys, the more I know I'd better remember to keep my mouth shut!

I could get permanently banned from here if I let my true feelings be known!

As I say, I have too many more deserving people that I must grieve for...other than the Kennedys.

Eric The(SilentNow)Hun

Prohibition was just as wrong as gun control is today.

C'mon. Outlawing a beverage? Had I lived then, I'd have been a bootlegger too.

Mr. TheHun, would you know the names of the servicemen that were shot down?

Post from StariVojnik -

Eric I am confused! Need more coffee.

I quite understand, coffee is a very necessary item in the Hun Apartment, as well!

Okay you're right, but wasn't CUBA already influenced by the USSR in '61 even before the Bay of Pigs fiasco?

They were indeed, although not to the point that the Soviets would have gone to war over Cuba!

That came at least 18 months later with the Cuban Missile Crisis.

So Kennedy can be blamed for either (1) allowing the invasion to go ahead anyway, or (2) not providing the necessary (and promised) air support when the invasion did occur.

Either way, he set himself, his country, and the world in danger of a nuclear exchange simply because of his gross incompetence in this matter.

So, when folks (wrongly) give JFK credit for 'staring the Soviets down' over the Cuban Missile Crisis, they don't realize that he was merely pulling his own cookies out of the fire from events that he allowed to transpire!

Still,  calling JFK a traitor in not right.

Not right, and more to the point, counterproductive!

Lead someone through the facts of the Kennedy Presidency and they will come to their own conclusion that he was not the 'white knight in shining armor' that his Camelot biographers portrayed him to be!

What happened in the Bay of Pigs was not right either.

Not at all, Sir, not at all.

So if there really was a cabal of ex-CIA folks and veterans of the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion who tracked Kennedy down and executed him in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963, well, as I quoted above, those who live by the sword shall die by the sword.

Eric The(American)Hun

Quoted: one could say that the BUSH family is the same as the kennedy except theirs came from oil. But nobodys gonna assassinate them cause they suck so bad in office that they are their own worst enemy

Yes, one could say that, indeed, if one were really devoid of all reason and judgment!



If President Bush is so bad in office then you should not worry, for any one of the Nine Dwarves that the DEMOs are considering to run against him, should win quite handily!

Right?

Eric The(Happy)Hun