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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:23:29 PM EDT
To be perfectly clear, I whole heartedly agree with his principles on this. We should not give an inch in this fight.
However, I sincerely believe his whole "Fuck Trump/Fuck the NRA" shtick is hurting more than it's helping. I do think that Trump is once again playing 4D chess, eating up the prime time bandwidth with talk of bump stock not-a-ban memos and mental health instead of letting them control the narrative with talk of AWB 2.0, mag bans, universal background checks, etc. Remember Obama's "gun control" EOs? 41P/F ended up backfiring and actually making NFA transfers easier by eliminating the CLEO approval (although it made it harder on trusts, LLCs, etc.). The point is, Trumo sending DoJ a memo on a novelty item means precisely nothing without legislation. In all likelihood, we will look up in a month and be back to business as usual. Now if you read some of the comments on MAC's FB page and YouTube feed, there are a lot of people pledging not to vote or vote against Trump in 2020. This is a mistake. Even if we end up in the worst possible scenario (a bump stock ban) it pales in comparison to the language included in DiFi's 2013 Assault Weapons Ban that died in the Senate. If the Democrats win back power, I don't think it will be long until they push for FAR more punitive laws and regulations. You also have to take into consideration the non-gun issues. I for one don't enjoy watching western culture get fucked by the long brown dick of the third world. If MAC continues his anti Trump shilling, he very well may contribute to forces FAR worse than a stupid bump stock ban. MAC's heart is in the right place, but he needs a serious come-to-Jesus talk. Screen caps of posts:  Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:25:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Some people can stay calm in a crisis while others do not have the ability
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:27:42 PM EDT
[#2]
All of those hand wringers will be right back on the Trump Train when no further restrictions come forth.
Face it, 4-D Chess isn't for invertebrates. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:29:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Popping pmags
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:32:45 PM EDT
[#4]
I can read. ATF has been directed to find bump stocks are machineguns.
That will probably be the extent of new bans and regulations. It's pretty clear ATF has been given marching orders to change their position on bump stocks. Unfortunately the courts aren't very pro 2A, so we aren't highly likely to get the ban overturned. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:38:55 PM EDT
[#5]
I understand his point, and am not at all happy about the proposed bump stock ban, but I think MAC is handling it wrong.
His posts come off as childish rants, and it seems like just about all of his recent videos have been him bumpfiring and ranting on about the NRA etc..... It's one thing to try to change policy and change people's minds, but the one cold hard fact exists: If Trump loses in 2020 an extremely anti gun Democrat will take his place. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:40:37 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can read. ATF has been directed to find bump stocks are machineguns. That will probably be the extent of new bans and regulations. It's pretty clear ATF has been given marching orders to change their position on bump stocks. Unfortunately the courts aren't very pro 2A, so we aren't highly likely to get the ban overturned. Again, I agree with MAC here, we shouldn't give an inch. But how does voting in the opposition help us win the long game because one of ours got weak and put bump stocks on the alter? |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:42:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
one cold hard fact exists: If Trump loses in 2020 an extremely anti gun Democrat will take his place. Nobody seems to get this. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:44:31 PM EDT
[#8]
"the battle lines have been drawn, and its time to choose sides."
I understand and empathize with the sentiment; but i sincerely am asking what/who is the other side he's referring to? Who else do we align our numbers and dollars with that has the organization and strength of the NRA? I know of and support several other 2A organizations, but none are as large or influential as the NRA. I am equally as unhappy with the direction of the NRA as MAC is; probably more so, being a life member. That is why I am doing my part to change its leadership and direction. It isn't going to happen overnight; it will take patience in a long-game - just like the erosion of our rights has taken. I don't know what his solutions are other than weakening the largest organization we have. I'd like to know what those solutions are if any of you know what his proposals are. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:44:37 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even still, if ATF slaps the "machinegun" designation on bump stocks, is that worth taking your ball and going home? Again, I agree with MAC here, we shouldn't give an inch. But how does voting in the opposition help us win the long game because one of ours got weak and put bump stocks on the alter? |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:46:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: one cold hard fact exists: If Trump loses in 2020 an extremely anti gun Democrat will take his place. QFT Nobody seems to get this. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:50:15 PM EDT
[#11]
What is Macs solution? Short version please.
No, I didn't read his wall of text. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:52:09 PM EDT
[#12]
I don't MAC is necessarily wrong.
I'll see how this shakes out, but I'm serious about not supporting people who turn tail at the first sign of political turmoil. If this ends with a bumpstock ban, due to Trump's actions, I'm sitting 2020 out. I don't care WHAT anyone says/thinks. I've been holding my nose for decades. I'm weary of it. I'm not going to do it anymore. If the right/GoP is serious about earning my vote, they better do some serious self-examination. Self-examination they should be doing, after the rise of Trump, anyways. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:53:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Trump's way of working these things seems to piss off both sides. I have little doubt that he does it on purpose. But in the end he seems to win far more often than he loses and to Trump winning means beating those he doesn't like.
My recommendation to gun owners is not to make him dislike us with rants like Mac's. If we stay on his side he stays on our side. Just shut up and let him concentrate on doing his job. Besides, what's our options? Vote democrat? Primary him out? With who? What action can we take against him that wouldn't make our situation worse.? |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:54:34 PM EDT
[#14]
I understand the "Fuck Trump" sentiment but in all reality if we had any other Republican or Hillary, we would be completely fucked.
And when the swamp runs Trump out in three years, you'll be wishing he'd won. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:00:51 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
QFT Nobody seems to get this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
one cold hard fact exists: If Trump loses in 2020 an extremely anti gun Democrat will take his place. Nobody seems to get this. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:08:48 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At least then we can get this civil war started instead of pussy-footing around it. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:10:14 PM EDT
[#17]
Let's see how far they take this sentence from Trump's press release in the new regulations:
"to propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns." I have a sneaking suspicion that they mean what they say in "all devices", this is just vague enough to fit anything. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:10:48 PM EDT
[#18]
Double tap
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:16:51 PM EDT
[#19]
is this the hill you want to die on?
the long game is to get enough people owning MSRs is that they will become unbannable. there will be some losses along the way. do you want to throw down the gauntlet in 2018 over bump stocks or see if we can make it past the next decade. if you can influence the process you can make sure its as narrow a ruling as possible, otherwise the Dems will come up with a 24lb trigger solution. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:22:03 PM EDT
[#20]
I'm staying on the reserved side on this one until we get more info about his intentions. Trump is not a stupid man, and I do believe he understands the ramifications of wholly pissing off a good portion of his supporters, so I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
And this is not par for the course for me, as I am usually one that has a pretty rough temper when I think there is a possibility that I may be about to get shit on. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:25:03 PM EDT
[#21]
I'm with Tim.
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:25:48 PM EDT
[#22]
Lots of supposed "pro-gun" people are coming out trying to weaken the NRA. Many post on this site. Some of those same people almost seem giddy about the idea of some gun control being passed.
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:26:19 PM EDT
[#23]
The same people in this thread posting that they won't vote for Trump again will be back crying louder than anyone else when a D gets elected and enacts some crazy amount of legislation.
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:26:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
is this the hill you want to die on? the long game is to get enough people owning MSRs is that they will become unbannable. there will be some losses along the way. do you want to throw down the gauntlet in 2018 over bump stocks or see if we can make it past the next decade. if you can influence the process you can make sure its as narrow a ruling as possible, otherwise the Dems will come up with a 24lb trigger solution. I don't agree with the way MAC is attempting to sway voters, but I see eye to eye with him in terms of how dangerous new law by regulation is. I'd like to see big names like MAC pushing against that 100%, without the rest of the nonsense. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:27:06 PM EDT
[#25]
DACA amnesty! How'd that work out???? Yep the sky is falling!
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:27:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
QFT Nobody seems to get this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
one cold hard fact exists: If Trump loses in 2020 an extremely anti gun Democrat will take his place. Nobody seems to get this. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:28:02 PM EDT
[#27]
If he builds that super wall and bans bumpstocks i will be like meh oh well. Ill vote trump 2020
No wall forget it. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:33:02 PM EDT
[#28]
For those who say they’ll sit the next election out if Trump bans bump fire stocks or raises the long gun age to 21 or requires more background checks, I say go ahead. Then when the Democrat wins and enacts registration or a new AWB, you can raise your hand and proudly say......... I sat this one out.
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:40:10 PM EDT
[#29]
I have followed and enjoyed MAC for a LONG time, since he started probably. Yesterday he said anyone that still supports the NRA is a traitor. I still support the NRA, fuck that guy.
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:47:03 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lots of supposed "pro-gun" people are coming out trying to weaken the NRA. Many post on this site. Some of those same people almost seem giddy about the idea of some gun control being passed. No part of me is giddy about anything that is happening. I'm pissed off that the NRA, who does less than nothing for me, opened the door to this Trump situation after Vegas. You can parse words about their official statement all that you want, but their weighing in on "increased regulations" didn't help one damn bit. They signaled that they were ok with additional regs, and the president that they so strongly backed seems to be following their lead. Hell, if the NRA is ok with it, why wouldn't he be as well? I understand that you're extremely loyal to the NRA, and I appreciate that you hammer away in these threads but in my honest opinion, you have blinders on and you aren't seeing the forest for the trees. I'm not interested in diminishing the NRA in any way, shape or form but I do believe, quite strongly, that the NRA is indeed diminished, and by its own hand. If you went to bed one night a legal citizen and woke up the next day a felon because legislation got passed in the dead of night like what happened to those of us in NY, and the NRA did nothing but use it to fund raise, you might understand better where I'm coming from. Yes, yes. INB4 "Fuck NY." "Move to a free state." "What have you done for gun rights?" "Fucking NYers are turning my state blue." |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:49:11 PM EDT
[#31]
If you think the NFA Community is overall is better off post-41F, you are sadly mistaken.
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:50:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Our side has a lot of dead weight who sit around pissing and moaning while the rest of us are trying to paddle the boat.
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:51:45 PM EDT
[#33]
Christ, you guys get your panties in a wad over the dumbest shit.
Who gives a shit about what a Youtuber writes or thinks? |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:53:19 PM EDT
[#34]
My problems with the NRA are mostly financial; Wayne's almost million dollar a year salary for one thing; (we can get him and others for less, I believe). They aren't perfect and I understand Mac's sentiments.
I do think they make missteps once in a while. Right now they're the best game in town, but not the only one, with GOA, SAF, and others doing a lot of the heavy lifting also. The only outcome so far since Las Vegas, has been BATFE reevaluating the stocks. The comment period has ended and no decision (apparently) has been made. Some would say this second look at stocks was because the NRA didn't put their foot completely down on the issue. Maybe, maybe not. Regardless, the sky has not fallen......yet, and may not at all. Banning a gun by looks or accessories has been done before; 1994 flash suppressors, telescoping stocks, mag. capacities, model names, etc. These didn't work, and a bump ban won't work either. I will continue to support the NRA and others, at least for now. I don't think they do enough at the state levels, and that's where a lot of battles are being lost. There are more wins than losses in most states however. Their strategy and I believe the President's right now, is listen, and let the heat of the moment anti-gun momentum fade away from the news and legislatures. Essentially fall back and regroup and wait out the enemies of freedom, and then go back to pushing the pro gun agenda, like CCW reciprocity. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:54:04 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For those who say they’ll sit the next election out if Trump bans bump fire stocks or raises the long gun age to 21 or requires more background checks, I say go ahead. Then when the Democrat wins and enacts registration or a new AWB, you can raise your hand and proudly say......... I sat this one out. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:55:55 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
To be perfectly clear, I whole heartedly agree with his principles on this. We should not give an inch in this fight. However, I sincerely believe his whole "Fuck Trump/Fuck the NRA" shtick is hurting more than it's helping. I do think that Trump is once again playing 4D chess, eating up the prime time bandwidth with talk of bump stock not-a-ban memos and mental health instead of letting them control the narrative with talk of AWB 2.0, mag bans, universal background checks, etc. Remember Obama's "gun control" EOs? 41P/F ended up backfiring and actually making NFA transfers easier by eliminating the CLEO approval (although it made it harder on trusts, LLCs, etc.). The point is, Trumo sending DoJ a memo on a novelty item means precisely nothing without legislation. In all likelihood, we will look up in a month and be back to business as usual. Now if you read some of the comments on MAC's FB page and YouTube feed, there are a lot of people pledging not to vote or vote against Trump in 2020. This is a mistake. Even if we end up in the worst possible scenario (a bump stock ban) it pales in comparison to the language included in DiFi's 2013 Assault Weapons Ban that died in the Senate. If the Democrats win back power, I don't think it will be long until they push for FAR more punitive laws and regulations. You also have to take into consideration the non-gun issues. I for one don't enjoy watching western culture get fucked by the long brown dick of the third world. If MAC continues his anti Trump shilling, he very well may contribute to forces FAR worse than a stupid bump stock ban. MAC's heart is in the right place, but he needs a serious come-to-Jesus talk. Screen caps of posts: https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/305821/Screenshot_2018-02-21-10-58-44-459537.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/305821/Screenshot_2018-02-21-10-59-23-459538.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/305821/Screenshot_2018-02-21-10-59-32-459539.JPG Whats this long brown dick of the third world? |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:56:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Christ, you guys get your panties in a wad over the dumbest shit. Who gives a shit about what a Youtuber writes or thinks? MAC should stfu and stick to posting internet dirt shooting videos |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:57:34 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't MAC is necessarily wrong. I'll see how this shakes out, but I'm serious about not supporting people who turn tail at the first sign of political turmoil. If this ends with a bumpstock ban, due to Trump's actions, I'm sitting 2020 out. I don't care WHAT anyone says/thinks. I've been holding my nose for decades. I'm weary of it. I'm not going to do it anymore. If the right/GoP is serious about earning my vote, they better do some serious self-examination. Self-examination they should be doing, after the rise of Trump, anyways. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:58:54 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: one cold hard fact exists: If Trump loses in 2020 an extremely anti gun Democrat will take his place. QFT Nobody seems to get this. If Trump goes gun banner I will not give a single fuck if the establishment politically takes him down. 
I continue to support the NRA despite them listening to Trump and agreeing to the bump stock evaluation position. Trump is way beyond the public statements of the NRA at this point. Trump is literally irrelevant compared to the NRA. If any Fudds at the NRA think supporting some bans will leave any gun rights (or money to be made) they'd best up their low velocity air gun offerings and airsoft lines. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 2:02:25 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whats this long brown dick of the third world? Democrats know that Christian, mostly-white middle America isn't going to vote for its own destruction, so they're going to import new constituencies to finish the job. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 2:02:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For those who say they’ll sit the next election out if Trump bans bump fire stocks or raises the long gun age to 21 or requires more background checks, I say go ahead. Then when the Democrat wins and enacts registration or a new AWB, you can raise your hand and proudly say......... I sat this one out. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 2:02:48 PM EDT
[#42]
All of you spineless wanna-be Trump haters...
Who are you going to run to? Trump is our only hope. Seriously... If we lose anything in the future due to people jumping ship... It is OVER. Think of the long game. Who could have done what Trump has done over the past year? Trump keeps pushing forward every single fucking day for this country. This isn't just about 2A, this is about us SAVING OUR FUCKING COUNTRY!!! Look at Trump's body of work up to this point. Look how he teased DACA. The man knows what he is doing! I transcribed exactly what Trump said yesterday: “I directed Attorney General to clarify whether certain bumpstock devices like the one used in Las Vegas are illegal under current law.” Translation: Bumpstocks are not illegal under current law. They fire one round per function of the trigger. Furthermore... “...I signed a memorandum directing Attorney General to propose regulations to ban all devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns.” Translation: Abso-FUCK’N-lutely NOTHING!!!!!! Devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns ARE illegal. A bunch of you need to suck it the fuck up and start acting like Americans again! |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 2:03:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm with Tim. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 2:06:15 PM EDT
[#44]
All I know is that after Trump's decision yesterday dick sucking phil murphy in NJ has taken that as a green light to infringe the fuck out of what little rights we've got left in here. He's planning on pushing his anti-gun bullshit laws through this week. YAY!!
Fuck!! I'm really curious to see where Trump takes this. I voted for him, I like him and I think he's the best president we've seen in a long time. I'm however not sure how much damage his decision is going to do to those of us behind enemy lines. The libs in NJ were already planning on sweeping anti-gun legislation but this seems to give them diamond cutting boners and the feeling they can do anything they want and no one will bat an eye. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 2:06:16 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I understand his point, and am not at all happy about the proposed bump stock ban, but I think MAC is handling it wrong. His posts come off as childish rants, and it seems like just about all of his recent videos have been him bumpfiring and ranting on about the NRA etc..... It's one thing to try to change policy and change people's minds, but the one cold hard fact exists: If Trump loses in 2020 an extremely anti gun Democrat will take his place. MAC is being a fucking idiot right now. Let's say he succeeds and Trump gets the axe in a couple years. What happens? Likely we would be staring at the very real chance that GENUINE "Turn them all in" legislation gets passed and with a razor thin SCOTUS lead, it has a decent chance of getting "found" Constitutional. Now let's say Trump gets 6 more years. Kennedy retires, Ginsberg might finally die. Conservatives get TWO more amazing justices like Gorsuch onto the SCOTUS. The liberal agenda is FUCKING DEAD for a generation. The rights we see in the Constitution are more or less safe, and even if the Democrats hold all the keys to power again, all their nutball ideas are stricken down. On a lot of things MAC makes a lot of sense, right now, he is nothing but a fucking tool of the Liberal Democrats. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 2:07:08 PM EDT
[#46]
MAC is starting to sound like that ditch bitch Yeager. I understand the frustration but damn....pull yourself together.
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Posted: 2/21/2018 2:08:10 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. MAC is being a fucking idiot right now. Let's say he succeeds and Trump gets the axe in a couple years. What happens? Likely we would be staring at the very real chance that GENUINE "Turn them all in" legislation gets passed and with a razor thin SCOTUS lead, it has a decent chance of getting "found" Constitutional. Now let's say Trump gets 6 more years. Kennedy retires, Ginsberg might finally die. Conservatives get TWO more amazing justices like Gorsuch onto the SCOTUS. The liberal agenda is FUCKING DEAD for a generation. The rights we see in the Constitution are more or less safe, and even if the Democrats hold all the keys to power again, all their nutball ideas are stricken down. On a lot of things MAC makes a lot of sense, right now, he is nothing but a fucking tool of the Liberal Democrats. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 2:08:29 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
MAC is starting to sound like that ditch bitch Yeager. I understand the frustration but damn....pull yourself together. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 2:11:24 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: MAC is a fuckin idiot that thinks he has a Mensa IQ. He is just very strong in his convictions. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 2:12:39 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All of you spineless wanna-be Trump haters... Who are you going to run to? Trump is our only hope. Seriously... If we lose anything in the future due to people jumping ship... It is OVER. Think of the long game. Who could have done what Trump has done over the past year? Trump keeps pushing forward every single fucking day for this country. This isn't just about 2A, this is about us SAVING OUR FUCKING COUNTRY!!! Look at Trump's body of work up to this point. Look how he teased DACA. The man knows what he is doing! I transcribed exactly what Trump said yesterday: "I directed Attorney General to clarify whether certain bumpstock devices like the one used in Las Vegas are illegal under current law." Translation: Bumpstocks are not illegal under current law. They fire one round per function of the trigger. Furthermore... "...I signed a memorandum directing Attorney General to propose regulations to ban all devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns." Translation: Abso-FUCK'N-lutely NOTHING!!!!!! Devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns ARE illegal. A bunch of you need to suck it the fuck up and start acting like Americans again! |
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