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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:03:00 AM EDT
[#1]
Good way to kill a lineman.
Get your stuff set up correctly before an emergency with a transfer switch or interlock and be safe about it. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:03:01 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
I assume it's unsafe therefore illegal but I'm admittedly curious about the process. This particular storm brought out a particular neighbor who is quite proud of his setup and has been offering to pigtail everyone's generator so that their homes would at the very minimum be able to run lights and ceiling fans of of the generator. The basic premise is that that he pigtails two 'male' plugs together... one end coming from the genny and the other running into the dryer's plug thus 'backfeeding' power back into the house's existing wires. Surely it can't be that simple, right? What happens if/when FPL turns our power back on? Lineman dies and you get arrested. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:06:32 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good way to kill a lineman. Get your stuff set up correctly before an emergency with a transfer switch or interlock and be safe about it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good way to kill a lineman. Get your stuff set up correctly before an emergency with a transfer switch or interlock and be safe about it. Quoted:
Lineman dies and you get arrested. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:08:29 AM EDT
[#4]
Its roughly that simple, and horribly dangerous on several levels. Dont do it!
Seriously, Dont. Run some extension cords and call it a day. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:13:49 AM EDT
[#5]
It's how 3 people already won Darwin awards from running the generator inside their home's laundry room. YMMV.
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:13:52 AM EDT
[#6]
You are missing the important step to not harm the linemen.
Kill your main breaker. The idea is still stupid, but at least this way you can be less stupid. What this does is separates your pole power from your breaker panel while it has voltage. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:14:42 AM EDT
[#7]
In addition to the obvious backed problem, you are using circuits designed for 1 (one) 220V dryer to power what? Just the fridge and AC, and a few lights......
This is a spectacular way to burn your house down.... dumber than shit. You can install a transfer switch (whole house is really easy, but manual is not bad) that will allow you to properly use a generator and not cause problems. Do this... it is worth it.... check out youtube..... |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:15:37 AM EDT
[#8]
shut off main breakers, then no power will leave the house...
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:15:46 AM EDT
[#9]
It's certainly not ideal but as long as you turn off the main breaker you won't be back feeding the line.
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:16:08 AM EDT
[#10]
How would a lineman die with the main breaker off. Please explain.
Really if it needs explaining don't do it. But... Shut off main breaker first. Set up a 2 male end cord thats heavy gauge that goes into the generator and a plug for any 220/240 outlet like a welder receptacle in your garage close to outside. Plug it in before starting generator. Turn off unneccesary things like your router, computer, and lights. You only have your generator wattage. This way above is workable if you arent a dumbass. I use this way but I have only lost power once in 5 years at my house so it isn't worth buying a better system. Live in an area with frequent outages buy the right stuff. Edit for order. Shut the main off First incase the power comes on. You should also have the breaker that the generator is run from off. Double up, be smart. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:17:48 AM EDT
[#11]
Now that that particular image is out of the way, its possible. Just kill the main breaker and make sure NO ONE turns it on. You can fry a lineman down the line. Different codes for different areas, but you can get a manual interlock if need be. 
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:22:04 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lineman dies and you get arrested.  Don't be so damn hysterical!
You have to be smarter than the average rabbit. You have to have the presence of mind to flip the main breakers off before plugging into a socket. My garage is wired so one side corresponds to one leg, and the other garage side to the other leg. Chain the Genny to the Jeep parked in the garage, and plug into the side of the garage that what you need powered in the house. Easy. Now, the only downside is that you have to watch the neighborhood to see when the power comes back on, to know when to unhook the Genny and repower the breaker box. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:22:08 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How would a lineman die with the main breaker off. Please explain. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be done, ya know? |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:24:42 AM EDT
[#14]
Power's been back on since yesterday morning so it's not an issue I was just wondering if it was as easy as dude made it seem.
* To be fair, he did mention shutting off the main switch on the panel in his initial explanation. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:27:08 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Power's been back on since yesterday morning so it's not an issue I was just wondering if it was as easy as dude made it seem. * To be fair, he did mention shutting off the main switch on the panel in is initial explanation. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:28:46 AM EDT
[#16]
save yourself a bunch of time:
Just burn your house down, and then go out and machine gun a few lineman. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:30:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know that. You know that. Your average homeowner with a brand new generator probably doesn't know that. When they lose power is probably only the second time they've cranked the thing. They have drunk Billy bob next door showing them what to do and they go home and screw it up and kill someone. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be done, ya know? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How would a lineman die with the main breaker off. Please explain. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be done, ya know? |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:30:57 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
What happens if/when FPL turns the power back on? For curiosity's sake. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:32:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Yes, there have been people killed by doing what you propose, who failed to turn off their main breakers or otherwise disconnect their house from the main power. There have also been generations of people doing that for decades who haven't screwed up and killed anyone. Nobody will get killed, if you don't screw up.
What you MUST do, is absolutely disconnect your house from the power lines. Main breakers off, or pull the meter or something like that. If you fail to do that, that is how someone (maybe you) gets killed. Turn all your other breakers off while you're at it. Connect the wire, fire up the generator, turn on the breaker that the generator is connected to, then turn on other breakers as needed for the loads you want to power, up to the capacity of your generator. You will get much better performance if you have a high amperage plug to connect to, say a range or clothes dryer plug. You also need sufficient gauge wire to handle the amperage load. Both of those will be crucial if you go over say 3500 watts on your generator. At some point I think this is a safer arrangement that some cobbled together web of extension cords and plugging and unplugging stuff. Both have potentially deadly hazards. Put some giant size warning labels on the backfeed cord explaining what has to be done. You could also do something like padlock the end of the cord, and tape the key on the inside of the breaker box, so that you have to access the breaker box first before you can use the cord. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:33:49 AM EDT
[#20]
If you're going to do that just pull the main breakers so no one will accidentally flip it on on. While you're at it pull the breakers for the AC too because it's to easy to forget and other family members might not realize. Might be slightly higher risk of fire if that line was overloaded. But just for a few lights and fans you will probably fine. But not sure what your home owners policy will do if there is a problem so just run a few cords.
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:57:55 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good way to kill a lineman. Get your stuff set up correctly before an emergency with a transfer switch or interlock and be safe about it. If you shut your main off. Everything else is a mute point. You will only be powering your house. "Good way to kill a lineman is total bullshit". If you ACTUALLY back fed your neighborhood your generator would stall or fault from the excess load. This is because everything that's still left switched on in every house on your block is a power draw. Just like if you are isolated and left your HVAC system on while trying to power your house with too small of a gen set it would stall or default. Not to mention safety protocol dictates they check the line and isolate the repair. If you think Harry home owners gen set can back feed a neighborhood you are either retarded, full of shit or parroting bullshit that your read on the internet. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 1:04:53 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you are either retarded, full of shit or parroting bullshit that your read on the internet. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 1:04:54 AM EDT
[#23]
Isn't the Neutral & Ground still tied in if you shut off your Main Breaker?
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Posted: 9/14/2017 1:05:32 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For curiosity's sake. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What happens if/when FPL turns the power back on? For curiosity's sake. If you are not disconnected from power, your bridge between the two sides of your power either explodes or catches fire. If you're not bridging the two sides, it probably damages your generator, or sets it on fire. Quoted:
Isn't the Neutral & Ground still tied in if you shut off your Main Breaker? |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 1:08:41 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are missing the important step to not harm the linemen. Kill your main breaker. The idea is still stupid, but at least this way you can be less stupid. What this does is separates your pole power from your breaker panel while it has voltage. What's that 7200 watts peak? Dodgy |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 1:15:02 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In addition to the obvious backed problem, you are using circuits designed for 1 (one) 220V dryer to power what? Just the fridge and AC, and a few lights...... This is a spectacular way to burn your house down.... dumber than shit. You can install a transfer switch (whole house is really easy, but manual is not bad) that will allow you to properly use a generator and not cause problems. Do this... it is worth it.... check out youtube..... It has been a few years since I took sparks and magic, but that is not how I remember the pixies behaving. Are you implying that having a 220v input to the panel is going to somehow start frying devices? If so, <That's-not-how-this-works.gif> 
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Posted: 9/14/2017 1:19:12 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
save yourself a bunch of time: Just burn your house down, and then go out and machine gun a few lineman. Now- my light duty backup before the transfer switch was an Honda 2000 - which means it only puts out about 16 amps max. I don't have a single breaker in my panel smaller than 15 amps. How is this going to burn down my house (assuming main breaker off, and all sub breakers off except for the outside socket that is backfeeding, and the breakers for the refridgerator and freezer [and furnace if it's winter])? |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 1:19:13 AM EDT
[#28]
I have a disconector just after the meter. I flip it off and I have my pole barn panel wired to let me plug in my generator and power my whole house. Did this for a week when we lost power back in 2012. It is nice coming home to AC when it is 98 degrees outside.
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Posted: 9/14/2017 1:28:50 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are literally full of shit. If you shut your main off. Everything else is a mute point. You will only be powering your house. "Good way to kill a lineman is total bullshit". If you ACTUALLY back fed your neighborhood your generator would stall or fault from the excess load. This is because everything that's still left switched on in every house on your block is a power draw. Just like if you are isolated and left your HVAC system on while trying to power your house with too small of a gen set it would stall or default. Not to mention safety protocol dictates they check the line and isolate the repair. If you think Harry home owners gen set can back feed a neighborhood you are either retarded, full of shit or parroting bullshit that your read on the internet. It's like saying the clip is out, it must be unloaded. Until it isn't. 
I have seen idiots suicide a welder-generator and energize a a neighborhood. If the cutouts are blown, and that line is sectionalized, a 25 kw generator will feed multiple houses. Most people don't know the difference from a 3.5 kw or a 20kw. An amp don't know the difference and a transformer works the same in reverse. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 1:31:22 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Up front- I actually have a proper transfer switch I've paid to have installed. Now- my light duty backup before the transfer switch was an Honda 2000 - which means it only puts out about 16 amps max. I don't have a single breaker in my panel smaller than 15 amps. How is this going to burn down my house (assuming main breaker off, and all sub breakers off except for the outside socket that is backfeeding, and the breakers for the refridgerator and freezer [and furnace if it's winter])? |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 1:32:56 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a disconector just after the meter. I flip it off and I have my pole barn panel wired to let me plug in my generator and power my whole house. Did this for a week when we lost power back in 2012. It is nice coming home to AC when it is 98 degrees outside. 
There it is. The right way. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 1:39:01 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Think about it, people that have larger units are going to back feed the bus bar in their breaker panel by rigging a double male into a 110 outlet (cus most people are fucking dumb). The load is on the other end of that 12 gauge romex, so the generator will keep squeezing the amps in there until the wire gets melty. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Up front- I actually have a proper transfer switch I've paid to have installed. Now- my light duty backup before the transfer switch was an Honda 2000 - which means it only puts out about 16 amps max. I don't have a single breaker in my panel smaller than 15 amps. How is this going to burn down my house (assuming main breaker off, and all sub breakers off except for the outside socket that is backfeeding, and the breakers for the refridgerator and freezer [and furnace if it's winter])? |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 1:45:57 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For curiosity's sake. Now, if the gen and the incoming utility power are out of step, then the bigger guy will win. Hopefully your gen will trip before the magic smoke comes out.
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Posted: 9/14/2017 2:46:35 AM EDT
[#34]
Another option is to just run extension cords through the house so you can pick and choose, then manage what needs to run. Not the greatest long term option, but it's an option.
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Posted: 9/14/2017 2:58:54 AM EDT
[#35]
Why anyone would do this rather than wire up a dedicated plug with a real interlock is beyond me.
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Posted: 9/14/2017 3:38:04 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are literally full of shit. If you shut your main off. Everything else is a mute point. You will only be powering your house. "Good way to kill a lineman is total bullshit". If you ACTUALLY back fed your neighborhood your generator would stall or fault from the excess load. This is because everything that's still left switched on in every house on your block is a power draw. Just like if you are isolated and left your HVAC system on while trying to power your house with too small of a gen set it would stall or default. Not to mention safety protocol dictates they check the line and isolate the repair. If you think Harry home owners gen set can back feed a neighborhood you are either retarded, full of shit or parroting bullshit that your read on the internet. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 3:45:10 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Power's been back on since yesterday morning so it's not an issue I was just wondering if it was as easy as dude made it seem. * To be fair, he did mention shutting off the main switch on the panel in his initial explanation. Work great if your not a Pussy and know that you're doing... 
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Posted: 9/14/2017 3:49:13 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Good way to kill a lineman is total bullshit". If you ACTUALLY back fed your neighborhood your generator would stall or fault from the excess load. This is because everything that's still left switched on in every house on your block is a power draw. Not to mention safety protocol dictates they check the line and isolate the repair. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 3:49:25 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Up front- I actually have a proper transfer switch I've paid to have installed. Now- my light duty backup before the transfer switch was an Honda 2000 - which means it only puts out about 16 amps max. I don't have a single breaker in my panel smaller than 15 amps. How is this going to burn down my house (assuming main breaker off, and all sub breakers off except for the outside socket that is backfeeding, and the breakers for the refridgerator and freezer [and furnace if it's winter])? This issue just gives the Pussy-fied Holier Than Thou folks something to rant and feel important about. 
Linemen are required to shunt wires, ground them, and take all sorts of safety precautions for far more reasons than someone back-feeding the grid. Like falling wires, lightning, the list is endless. Nonetheless, it's critical to take precautions not to do so. If you don't know what you're doing, sit in the dark. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 3:55:46 AM EDT
[#40]
Your friendly neighborhood lineman isn't grabbing ahold of wires willy-nilly. He has this thing about not trusting your stupid ass.
And speaking of your stupid ass, do yourself a favor and kill the main breaker.
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Posted: 9/14/2017 4:11:35 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Think about it, people that have larger units are going to back feed the bus bar in their breaker panel by rigging a double male into a 110 outlet (cus most people are fucking dumb). The load is on the other end of that 12 gauge romex, so the generator will keep squeezing the amps in there until the wire gets melty. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 4:26:32 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
shut off main breakers, then no power will leave the house... |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 4:30:51 AM EDT
[#43]
I've been curious about this, mainly from the perspective of the linemen. What sort of precautions do they take? I know they go to certain places assuming there are generators run without transfer switches, what sort of lockouts do they use to stay safe?
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Posted: 9/14/2017 5:34:58 AM EDT
[#44]
Ok, got to admit this is rocket surgery to me , but what I have done once or twice in the 15 years I've had a genny. and a power failure.
Shut off the main, take a homemade double male ended 10 ga. 3' long cord from the genny to a outdoor extension cord, run said cord into the house to plug into a wall plug that's on the same circuit that powers one of the three things that are imperative in my neck of the woods...furnace blower (in winter), or the sump pump (in summer) and the refrigerator (a couple hours at any time). Never more that one circuit at a time, and each circuit has a couple lights on it. I don't run any high load stuff other than those three things. Don't know how safe it really is, but so far so good. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:04:51 AM EDT
[#45]
It would be bad.
Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light. Total protonic reversal |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:09:37 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
I assume it's unsafe therefore illegal but I'm admittedly curious about the process. This particular storm brought out a particular neighbor who is quite proud of his setup and has been offering to pigtail everyone's generator so that their homes would at the very minimum be able to run lights and ceiling fans of of the generator. The basic premise is that that he pigtails two 'male' plugs together... one end coming from the genny and the other running into the dryer's plug thus 'backfeeding' power back into the house's existing wires. Surely it can't be that simple, right? What happens if/when FPL turns the power back on? That's fine "BUT" you must turn off your incoming main breaker! Nothing wrong with this as long as this is done. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:17:37 AM EDT
[#47]
If a lineman dies working on a line it's his fault. He will either work it like its hot(wear gloves and sleeves) or test it and ground it on both sides of his work zone for bare hand work.
That's the way we are trained to do it. "It ain't dead unless its grounded'. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:18:27 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At best the drier is a 30 amp circuit. What's that 7200 watts peak? Dodgy However, if you have a 5kW generator and kill the main breaker, nobody will get hurt. It's just a very hack way of doing it. I wouldn't run a full load through a 30 amp circuit non stop. If you just want lights and a cold frisge, you should be running in safe parameters for this hackery. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:19:31 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been curious about this, mainly from the perspective of the linemen. What sort of precautions do they take? I know they go to certain places assuming there are generators run without transfer switches, what sort of lockouts do they use to stay safe? That being said, I've never bothered with much secondary. I get primary, sub-t, or transmission back up and running then head home. I would venture to say that safety rules aren't always followed when working secondary in a storm situation. A suicide cord setup can be very dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. Not understanding how to isolate your home, how to safely power one or both legs, how to energize the suicide cord, etc can all be bad, bad, juju. In general, if you need to ask, dont try it. Manual interlocks aren't that expensive, so have one installed. At the same time, build a nice little area OUT-FUCKING-SIDE to run your genny and be able to secure it. Eta: I can pretty much guarantee you that any lineman I know who finds you back feeding will rip your meter out and put it in their meter collection. Hope you have a lot of gas. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 6:29:15 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are literally full of shit. If you shut your main off. Everything else is a mute point. You will only be powering your house. "Good way to kill a lineman is total bullshit". If you ACTUALLY back fed your neighborhood your generator would stall or fault from the excess load. This is because everything that's still left switched on in every house on your block is a power draw. Just like if you are isolated and left your HVAC system on while trying to power your house with too small of a gen set it would stall or default. Not to mention safety protocol dictates they check the line and isolate the repair. If you think Harry home owners gen set can back feed a neighborhood you are either retarded, full of shit or parroting bullshit that your read on the internet. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Good way to kill a lineman. Get your stuff set up correctly before an emergency with a transfer switch or interlock and be safe about it. If you shut your main off. Everything else is a mute point. You will only be powering your house. "Good way to kill a lineman is total bullshit". If you ACTUALLY back fed your neighborhood your generator would stall or fault from the excess load. This is because everything that's still left switched on in every house on your block is a power draw. Just like if you are isolated and left your HVAC system on while trying to power your house with too small of a gen set it would stall or default. Not to mention safety protocol dictates they check the line and isolate the repair. If you think Harry home owners gen set can back feed a neighborhood you are either retarded, full of shit or parroting bullshit that your read on the internet.
It doesn't have to "back feed a neighborhood" to kill a lineman. https://www.oshrc.gov/decisions/html_2007/06-0166.htm |
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