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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:45:00 PM EDT
[#1]
Go ahead and quit then.
Your only loyalty should be to yourself and your family. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:46:40 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go ahead and quit then. Your only loyalty should be to yourself and your family. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:49:15 PM EDT
[#3]
The question you should be asking is, "To whom does the company's loyalty belong?"
Also, your understanding of tiers is backwards. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:50:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Beware, loyalty as a bilateral attribute is no longer a factor. Your unilateral loyalty is appreciated, but unless you are a rainmaker, you will be overlooked/dumped like any other schmoe.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:50:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go ahead and quit then. Your only loyalty should be to yourself and your family. God, family, and country. My employer? I look out for.my people but my loyalty to the firm extends to my next paycheck, which is pretty much how far their loyalty extends to me. I do the job, I get paid - Expecting more would be delusional. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:51:11 PM EDT
[#6]
I'm loyal to me...I've watched how those managers treated "loyal" employees as they are being marched to the door when the layoffs came. The company can go screw itself.
I owe them 40 hours a week performing the duties they have outlined, they owe me a paycheck, safe work enviroment and health insurance. Thats what we agreed to 17 years ago. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:51:27 PM EDT
[#7]
My loyalty is in my bank account. Any other company loyalty is foolish.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:51:47 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The question you should be asking is, "To whom does the company's loyalty belong?" Also, your understanding of tiers is backwards. And I know my "tiers" are wrong, the math is just easier that way 
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:52:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
First post nails it. God, family, and country. My employer? I look out for.my people but my loyalty to the firm extends to my next paycheck, which is pretty much how far their loyalty extends to me. I do the job, I get paid - Expecting more would be delusional. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:53:14 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The question you should be asking is, "To whom does the company's loyalty belong?" Also, your understanding of tiers is backwards. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:53:43 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
First post nails it. God, family, and country. My employer? I look out for.my people but my loyalty to the firm extends to my next paycheck, which is pretty much how far their loyalty extends to me. I do the job, I get paid - Expecting more would be delusional. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Go ahead and quit then. Your only loyalty should be to yourself and your family. God, family, and country. My employer? I look out for.my people but my loyalty to the firm extends to my next paycheck, which is pretty much how far their loyalty extends to me. I do the job, I get paid - Expecting more would be delusional. OP- correct me if I'm wrong, but the question you're asking is if you should shut up and do your work without rocking the boat, or if you should go ahead and rock the boat a bit in hopes to better the organization as a whole. Is that right? |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:54:51 PM EDT
[#12]
LOL. They will lose your ass for a buck. Those people you are in such a hurry to step on may be your boss again at the next company.
ETA: my last job was with a well known manufacturing company from Sweden. My current job is with a commercial property company from Panama. I have been from the 1 level to the 3 level so I have played these games a bit. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:55:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The question you should be asking is, "To whom does the company's loyalty belong?" Also, your understanding of tiers is backwards. The place is ripe for a layoff of managers. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:55:13 PM EDT
[#14]
Making enemies with higher level management is a sure way to find yourself out of a job.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:56:04 PM EDT
[#15]
I'm loyal to my family. There is no loyal in business. Do your job, and do it well. If that isn't enough, find a boss with integrity.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:56:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
First post does not nail it, and has nothing to do with the question being asked. OP- correct me if I'm wrong, but the question you're asking is if you should shut up and do your work without rocking the boat, or if you should go ahead and rock the boat a bit in hopes to better the organization as a whole. Is that right? |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:57:08 PM EDT
[#17]
If you ever want to be the guy "running the show" you need to be 50% doing what's best for the company/shareholders and 50% protecting your position/defending against other employees (without obviously being detrimental to the company's success). Focusing on yourself and your family is great but offers no advancement.
..... and when you get to be CEO you will realize that you still don't get to make the decisions and that the board and large investors have much more say in things than you ever realized. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:57:57 PM EDT
[#18]
I'm loyal to no one but the CEO/Executive staff. they care about are stock prices and keeping share holders from dumping shares if that means dumping numbers like you they wont even hesitate. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:58:22 PM EDT
[#19]
Great attitude and it will get you far. You might adjust your loyalty to put your shareholders first. You do this, and assuming happy customers equal increased shareholder value, you'll be doing right by your CEO all the way down the line.
Re your point about other mid level mgrs. there are two kinds - those trying to move up, and those trying to maintain the status quo. Those that aren't "A"s will hire "B"s, and will cling to the "that's the way it's always been done" attitude. They don't innovate, and really are just there to get a paycheck. In reality, they were probably good in their previous role, but have been promoted one level too high. Of those trying to progress, you'll have legit "A"s who like to challenge and to be challenged. They will also hire other "A"s, and will be open to innovation. If they are great leaders, you'll see them planning their successors to lead and to take over their role without worrying about being outshined. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:58:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL. They will lose your ass for a buck. Those people you are in such a hurry to step on may be your boss again at the next company. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 9:58:30 PM EDT
[#21]
My company is changing, and my loyalty is to the people who report to me.......I wouldn't be where I am without their effort, so I do what I can to take care of them. The changing corporate environment has made it clear that they don't want me loyal to my people, but rather to the executive management. People are expendable in the corporate mind, and apparently so am I.
It's a difficult spot to be in, but doing the right thing by my people lets me look at myself in the mirror. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:01:40 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of those trying to progress, you'll have legit "A"s who like to challenge and to be challenged. They will also hire other "A"s, and will be open to innovation. If they are great leaders, you'll see them planning their successors to lead and to take over their role without worrying about being outshined. Poor/insecure leaders hire bad people, good leaders hire future good leaders and mentor them to make them successful and ready to step up when they are ready to move on/up/retire. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:01:44 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes that's exactly right. I'd rather help the organization even if it means radically changing the requirements of roles and responsibilities previously outlined. Those that are of value to the overall mission recognize this. Otherwise might as well work at the DMV.... So be careful, be wise, but do the best you can IMO. I hear you, I wouldn't be happy just shutting up and coloring either. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:01:56 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes that's exactly right. I'd rather help the organization even if it means radically changing the requirements of roles and responsibilities previously outlined. Those that are of value to the overall mission recognize this. Otherwise might as well work at the DMV.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
First post does not nail it, and has nothing to do with the question being asked. OP- correct me if I'm wrong, but the question you're asking is if you should shut up and do your work without rocking the boat, or if you should go ahead and rock the boat a bit in hopes to better the organization as a whole. Is that right? Upper management will never see what you're trying to accomplish, mid level will can your ass for fucking with the system they are used to. Go do a great job, but do not try to save the world. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:03:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Making enemies with higher level management is a sure way to find yourself out of a job.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:04:49 PM EDT
[#26]
More power to ya. You need to work on your leadership skills. Been there 4 years, leaping into MM? Those people who are suddenly abrasive and reluctant were overlooked when you took their spots, or they do in fact know more than you do, and can see where you are headed.
Try learning thier names. Our product is suffering because people like you with 4 years in think you know everything. Then you outsource mods to someone else totally overlooking the people who work here. THis creates a lot of resentment. If work is your family, you are skipping life, go make friends, start a family, live life. Or maybe I'm talking out my ass about my own work area. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:04:55 PM EDT
[#27]
Regardless of who I work for, loyalty is always to my paycheck.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:06:48 PM EDT
[#28]
Buy enough company stock to get a seat on the board then fire the people you hate and give yourself a raise.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:07:38 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not in a hurry to step on anyone. I am in a hurry to lean the company of tactics that do not make sense and cost money/resources and end up being ineffective. Encountering resistance from those only looking to protect their job and income at the demise of efficiency. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
LOL. They will lose your ass for a buck. Those people you are in such a hurry to step on may be your boss again at the next company. Is your boss or your chain seen as being part of the inner circle? Are you working for a trusted advisor or just another management guy? |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:08:24 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
I'm a young guy... In the last few months.......I've become an expert... Thoughts? I'm thinking you still have much to learn. You don't become an expert at anything in a few months, and you might try working with those other managers rather than questioning their ethics and thinking you have all the answers. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:10:27 PM EDT
[#31]
Your company does not give two shots about you. It sucks, but that is the way of the world now.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:12:25 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes that's exactly right. I'd rather help the organization even if it means radically changing the requirements of roles and responsibilities previously outlined. Those that are of value to the overall mission recognize this. Otherwise might as well work at the DMV.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
First post does not nail it, and has nothing to do with the question being asked. OP- correct me if I'm wrong, but the question you're asking is if you should shut up and do your work without rocking the boat, or if you should go ahead and rock the boat a bit in hopes to better the organization as a whole. Is that right? If that means rocking the boat or not, weigh the costs and benefits and make a decision. When you choose to take risks and have vision, people will come after you and you may fail in the end. It really beats being mediocre at life in my opinion. It may also not align with certain corporate cultures and you are discarded to be on to bigger and better things. ETA: an ounce of humility and grabbing a high level mentor would be a big help. You think you know it all, but my guess is you can't even begin to understand the corporate politicing to accomplish your goal. It sounds like you need to figure out what you don't know first. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:16:01 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're young, eager, and still full of energy. That's fucking awesome but you'll need to get that résumé ready if you keep going at it. Upper management will never see what you're trying to accomplish, mid level will can your ass for fucking with the system they are used to. Go do a great job, but do not try to save the world. I consider myself a world class boat rocker and argument winner. But I don't get carried away with it. Make your suggestions, make sure you get credit for it, do what you are told, and let those above you push through the changes. Follow the Chain of command and don't be dick. Smile at the cocksuckers you can't stand. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:17:00 PM EDT
[#34]
They'd kill you in your sleep and sell your organs if they thought they could get away with it. Unless there's some other layer of interconnectedness, like family ties, there is no loyalty in the corporate world.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:18:20 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes that's exactly right. I'd rather help the organization even if it means radically changing the requirements of roles and responsibilities previously outlined. Those that are of value to the overall mission recognize this. Otherwise might as well work at the DMV.... One thing I have learned is that you are talking about breaking up the boys club. Before you jump into that pit you need to understand how the different tiers are connected to each other. The guys climbing the ladder tend to pull up the ones underneath them that make them look good. Best bet for making organizational change is to get into a position that allows you to build your own team. Then get your team to out perform the other teams and start to swallow them up. That is the only way I have seen the org chart start to flatten out. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:19:21 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
I work for a large organization. I'm a middle manager (let's call it tier 1- least important) for a particular department that was recommended for additional responsibilities by senior staff (we can say they are tier 4. Tier 7 would be CEO). I'm a young guy who has only been there for 4 years, working myself up from an entry level role (non management). In the last few months due to the knowledge I've gained and who I'm working with I've become an expert in one of the hottest areas, and suddenly been elevated to access I could never have dreamed of before. What I'm seeing is that many of the management staff (tier 2-3) have become abrasive, reluctant to change and the exposure of their work that I've uncovered. I'm loyal to no one but the CEO/Executive staff. I think that the work that we do should always be productive, and if it's not should be changed. I'd advocate for the elimination of my position and my department if it came to the good of the organization (it has not, but just making a point. If it did, I figure with this attitude I could get hired someplace else where my services are valuable). Is this a mistake? The excuse that bothers me the most, but I see most often is "well that's the way we've always done it". That is the reason companies die. EDIT: my point is that I get extremely irritated in those that will put their position or their department over the "bottom line". Those that do well career wise will aim to meet the goals of the company rather than advocate the need for their position/department when it does not make financial sense to do so. Thoughts? OP ...congrats on discovering corporate America . What you have uncovered is very common,people protect them selves and position themselves and their groups in order to appear needed/important. You rock the boat enough you will find yourself being cast overboard holding the anchor... Here is some advice from someone that has been in corporate America for 20+ years.....it's all a game,but it's a game that is played for keeps. Those that don't get along,get replaced. Not saying it's right just saying that's what happens,ymmv. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:19:48 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do what you feel is in the combined best interest of yourself and the organization. If that means rocking the boat or not, weigh the costs and benefits and make a decision. When you choose to take risks and have vision, people will come after you and you may fail in the end. It really beats being mediocre at life in my opinion. It may also not align with certain corporate cultures and you are discarded to be on to bigger and better things. ETA: an ounce of humility and grabbing a high level mentor would be a big help. You think you know it all, but my guess is you can't even begin to understand the corporate politicing to accomplish your goal. It sounds like you need to figure out what you don't know first. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:22:45 PM EDT
[#38]
The scenario you've laid out is not one of loyalty, it's about recognition of what is going on and your role in it. You are at an important part of your career here (with your current company or any other), where you need to learn how to read people, understand why they do what they do and say what they say, how to motivate them individually and as groups to move forward, and to alleviate their (predictable and understandable) fears of change. But the first thing you need to do is get yourself in check....by your description you are off to a bad start with prompting changes and inspiring others to help you. You may be smart enough to fix lots of your company's problems, but it won't happen until you get wise in the ways of people. I wish you the best, I like go-getters....but some self-examination and learning other important aspects of success are in order for you.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:23:28 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And don't get me wrong, I'm certainly very humble. I would never throw anyone under the bus publically, rather I just want to point out the inefficiencies to the best that I can using data and when asked my opinion. So far it's been pretty interesting. I make it a point to see their side of the story, even when in disagreement. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Do what you feel is in the combined best interest of yourself and the organization. If that means rocking the boat or not, weigh the costs and benefits and make a decision. When you choose to take risks and have vision, people will come after you and you may fail in the end. It really beats being mediocre at life in my opinion. It may also not align with certain corporate cultures and you are discarded to be on to bigger and better things. ETA: an ounce of humility and grabbing a high level mentor would be a big help. You think you know it all, but my guess is you can't even begin to understand the corporate politicing to accomplish your goal. It sounds like you need to figure out what you don't know first. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:25:53 PM EDT
[#40]
Honestly you want a lesson in humble, when dealing with the big boys BlackFox is one of the most humble yet, aggressive, knowledgeable people who knows how to communicate person to person in a concise and direct manner.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:26:00 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My company is changing, and my loyalty is to the people who report to me.......I wouldn't be where I am without their effort, so I do what I can to take care of them. The changing corporate environment has made it clear that they don't want me loyal to my people, but rather to the executive management. People are expendable in the corporate mind, and apparently so am I. It's a difficult spot to be in, but doing the right thing by my people lets me look at myself in the mirror. What you are seeing in your company is typical everywhere, those good (read loyal - see above) who don't like it as it is leave and form smaller company's where they can avoid the problems. But it never lasts, they grow and bring in the company wreckers or they get bought. Rebirth is cyclical. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:29:39 PM EDT
[#42]
And then the whole bus applauded!
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:29:50 PM EDT
[#43]
Every other Friday, the company pays me. This starts the loyalty over again, In both directions.
They are loyal to me to pay me and I'm loyal to them to work. That's all. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:33:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, your understanding of tiers is backwards. OP, don't ever forget that as much as you think you have everything figured out, very rarely do you have the whole picture available to you. Always look out for you best interest and do it honestly. And don't deal with anyone underhandedly. Someone will notice either way you go. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:36:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Look out for yourself, because you can be damn sure no one else is.
That's opportunity knocking. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:38:28 PM EDT
[#46]
With my family.
Then the people I manage, if they merit it. Fuck the rest. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:44:21 PM EDT
[#47]
My loyalty is in my paycheck is. The point of work is to make money. I've been with the same company for 2 years. They've been good to me, for the most part. 2 promotions and multiple raises. However, if a different company called me right now and offered me the same job for more pay, I'd be gone in a heartbeat. Simple as that. In the end, you've got to take care of yourself/family and do what's best for you.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:53:41 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP ...congrats on discovering corporate America . What you have uncovered is very common,people protect them selves and position themselves and their groups in order to appear needed/important. You rock the boat enough you will find yourself being cast overboard holding the anchor... Here is some advice from someone that has been in corporate America for 20+ years.....it's all a game,but it's a game that is played for keeps. Those that don't get along,get replaced. Not saying it's right just saying that's what happens,ymmv. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I work for a large organization. I'm a middle manager (let's call it tier 1- least important) for a particular department that was recommended for additional responsibilities by senior staff (we can say they are tier 4. Tier 7 would be CEO). I'm a young guy who has only been there for 4 years, working myself up from an entry level role (non management). In the last few months due to the knowledge I've gained and who I'm working with I've become an expert in one of the hottest areas, and suddenly been elevated to access I could never have dreamed of before. What I'm seeing is that many of the management staff (tier 2-3) have become abrasive, reluctant to change and the exposure of their work that I've uncovered. I'm loyal to no one but the CEO/Executive staff. I think that the work that we do should always be productive, and if it's not should be changed. I'd advocate for the elimination of my position and my department if it came to the good of the organization (it has not, but just making a point. If it did, I figure with this attitude I could get hired someplace else where my services are valuable). Is this a mistake? The excuse that bothers me the most, but I see most often is "well that's the way we've always done it". That is the reason companies die. EDIT: my point is that I get extremely irritated in those that will put their position or their department over the "bottom line". Those that do well career wise will aim to meet the goals of the company rather than advocate the need for their position/department when it does not make financial sense to do so. Thoughts? OP ...congrats on discovering corporate America . What you have uncovered is very common,people protect them selves and position themselves and their groups in order to appear needed/important. You rock the boat enough you will find yourself being cast overboard holding the anchor... Here is some advice from someone that has been in corporate America for 20+ years.....it's all a game,but it's a game that is played for keeps. Those that don't get along,get replaced. Not saying it's right just saying that's what happens,ymmv. The higher you go up the food chain the greater the politics, cronyism and career assassinations become. The companies loyalty is to itself, the managements loyalty are to themselves, get everything you can for you and your career and do enough at work to look like you are making steady measurable progress and you'll be ok. You start embarrassing your peers and you'll get fast tracked to the door. |
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:53:55 PM EDT
[#49]
It sounds to me a bad cultural fit for you. On your "scale", I'd be a tier 4. If you believe those above you are not willing to take risks or have the continuous improvement mindset, then maybe you should look elsewhere. Certain company cultures reward creativity and humility among leaders.
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Posted: 6/20/2017 10:55:56 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Great comment. Poor/insecure leaders hire bad people, good leaders hire future good leaders and mentor them to make them successful and ready to step up when they are ready to move on/up/retire. |
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