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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:03:17 AM EDT
[#1]
Christopher Hitchens said something funny "If you want to insult a black person, tell them how great their annunciation is."
Oh, yeah....IBTL |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:11:34 AM EDT
[#2]
When my brother in law and I went to Tunica, Mississippi we were behind a guy in line at a fast food joint that neither of us could understand a word that he said. Rod still talks about that guy to this day and imitates him all of the time. And it was funny because the lady behind the counter seemed to understand him perfectly even though it sounded like a foreign language.
For the most part though, I don't have trouble understanding most anyone except for oriental people. I get kind of embarassed when I ask them "what did you say?" five or six times. |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:16:32 AM EDT
[#3]
And yet another question...
Why do British Black people sound British and not Black? |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:19:07 AM EDT
[#4]
caz day aint's gotsta you white cracka mutha-fucka!
just kidding bro. |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:24:25 AM EDT
[#5]
i give it 1-1/2 pages before the lock.
i do business with people from all around this great big world. most of the time i find their english much easier to understand. |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:27:12 AM EDT
[#6]
It's an exposure thing. The more you are exposed to the language the better you get at it. Listening to Japanese, Thai, and Phillipino's speak "English" is difficult but the longer you listen the better you are able to understand each dialect.
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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:29:28 AM EDT
[#7]
I axe you dis:
Whad wud OJ doo? [img]http://www.castle-arms.com/pix/caption2.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:32:22 AM EDT
[#8]
I figured it was because of their big lips. I have a friend that's white and he has unusually large lips. I have a lot of trouble understanding him, as does my wife.
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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:32:40 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: And yet another question... Why do British Black people sound British and not Black? That's a good one, Hannah. Sometimes the British dialects/accents are as hard to understand to the American English ear as our own Southern dialects/accents are to someone not from the South. The weird part is, the Southern dialects/accents have a British origin in some of the patterns or ways words are pronounced. I was watching a TV show about a Gumbo Fest in Louisiana ( I think it was gumbo... ) and if you shut your eyes, you couldn't tell what color the person was that was speaking; it didn't matter. The pattern of speech was the same. Then you get NorthEastern American accents that'll make you wonder, too. "Car" has no "R" on the end; "Data" will be pronounced "day-tur". Go figure. I come from the NorthWest. Bland speach pattern here. Sorry! |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:32:53 AM EDT
[#10]
You will get used to it, soon you will find yourself understanding ebonics perfectly and then you will start understanding the mind set that goes along with it.
You will be able to interpret for friends and family, this will make you the hit of the party if MTV is on the tube. Your job is giving you a grand view. |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:35:13 AM EDT
[#11]
I'm from the south. The worst case I had was a white girl from Boston. "I need to get my kuy serviced" I had to ask her to repeat three times.
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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:35:56 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: i give it 1-1/2 pages before the lock. As long as nobody crosses the (invisible) 'line', it will go on forever, as this bs is tolerated all the time at arfcom....Thought you knew.... (Oh yeah, I am a racial shit stirrer for even mentioning it) |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:39:45 AM EDT
[#13]
Ask Chief Moose, he's got a Phd, he'll know...[rolleyes]
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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:39:58 AM EDT
[#14]
I can usually understand anyone in person, even foreigners, but I ran into a black man in south GA that I could not understand at all. I could pick out a word every now and then. I just nodded and smiled and said uh-huh. He sounded just like Mushba-Mouthba, only faster and worse.
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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:40:09 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Quoted: i give it 1-1/2 pages before the lock. As long as nobody crosses the (invisible) 'line', it will go on forever, as this bs is tolerated all the time at arfcom....Thought you knew.... (Oh yeah, I am a racial shit stirrer for even mentioning it) |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:46:22 AM EDT
[#16]
Some people are just plain ass lazy.
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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:50:15 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Quoted: i give it 1-1/2 pages before the lock. As long as nobody crosses the (invisible) 'line', it will go on forever, as this bs is tolerated all the time at arfcom....Thought you knew.... (Oh yeah, I am a racial shit stirrer for even mentioning it) Gee cavvet. Maybe ya got a rep, because it's true?? I notice, ya don't post any useful info. Why do you bother to click the topic, if you have nothing to contribute?? Do you have any idea, why so many American blacks cannot speak intelligible english??? |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:52:45 AM EDT
[#18]
Ha! All you guys have accents. Up her in da nort, ya, up by WisCONsin way, we don't have an accent, don't ch'ya know.
Here ya go Campy..only a half page to go. IBTL |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:54:04 AM EDT
[#19]
Two main reasons come to mind. The first is that you're not used to their accents and word usage. It is much easier to understand a different accent with more exposure. If you've ever spent time in a foreign country or time around someone with a heavy accent, you'll notice that you get better at understanding them. If you, like me, aren't often around someone with a "ghetto" (I'm not using the word black here because this applies to anyone) accent, you will naturally have more trouble understanding the user. The second reason is that while communication and sounding more intelligent are probably important to you, it isn't to many people. Many people just don't care so they don't try.
I don't think this is really a race topic. I talk to as many whites now with "ghetto" accents (or should I call it acts?) as blacks now. Also, I have more trouble understanding some of the local Southern accents than I do the fake-ghetto ones, and I'm from here!z |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:58:06 AM EDT
[#20]
It's happened to me too... I live kinda on what you would call the North/Midwest/Southern border so I hear everything from NY to Wiscaaansen to Chicago to Ebonics to Y'all to Where's my niece.
It kills me to get a telemarketer with a thick indian/asian/ebonic accent so thick I can't understand it. I end up wasting more time saying 'what? Could you repeat that?'...[rolleyes] |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 6:58:51 AM EDT
[#21]
IBTL.
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Posted: 6/30/2003 7:04:32 AM EDT
[#22]
[url=http://sounds.wavcentral.com/movies/airplane/jive.mp3]sheeeet[/url]
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Posted: 6/30/2003 7:07:15 AM EDT
[#23]
It is all a result of language discipline during childhood. There are no physical reasons for it. Some people adopt street slang to be cool, even if they know how to properly speak. For others, it's all they know.
Unless English is your second language, it's more of a class thing than a racial thing, and only develops racial overtones due to a higher population in the lower classes. A regional dialect can be forgiven, as can odd uses of certain words or strange pronunciations. The inability to communicate effectively will doom you to failure. Many parents, even if they can speak properly, will not correct their childrens grammar, as they feel that "they got the message" so what's the harm. If the parent can't speak well, the child has little chance at a public speaking career. |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 7:11:18 AM EDT
[#24]
I don't really believe it's my ear for languages', as my Spanish teacher said I had a gift for languages when she subbed German class & found me there. I speak a smattering of German, Spanish, Polish, & Russian. I have a interest in languages, but have never done much with it. Also the people I work with were all born & raised in Texas, & have just as difficult time as I do. I hears ya Slacko! I wasd from up in Wisdconsin near Minny soda till I moved heres about. Yah sure, by goly, uhff da!
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Posted: 6/30/2003 7:13:32 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: It's happened to me too... I live kinda on what you would call the North/Midwest/Southern border so I hear everything from NY to Wiscaaansen to Chicago to Ebonics to Y'all to Where's my niece. It kills me to get a telemarketer with a thick indian/asian/ebonic accent so thick I can't understand it. I end up wasting more time saying 'what? Could you repeat that?'...[rolleyes] I don't talk to telemarketers even when they speak clearly. You are a patient man. As far as the topic is concerned, it's mainly due to lack of education, i.e. ignorance. Poor white folks do the same thing with their speech only it's a different accent. When they become adults and begin to realize how silly they sound, they simply figure it's too late to change. Either that or they are [b]extremely[/b] ignorant and think their speech isn't wrong, only different. Hence the attitude of some people that those who bother to speak correctly are being "uppity". "You think you're better than me because you don't say 'I ain't never done that'?" etc., etc., etc. |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 7:15:52 AM EDT
[#26]
CavVet speaks the very well actually.
The soldiers, sailors, and airmen at my command who happen to be black speak perfectly good english as well. Many of the soldiers and airmen have trouble understanding us sailors when we start speaking "squid". When my commander walks into an assembly I shout "attention on deck" which gets the desired result but my first sergeant wants me to say "a-tent-hut" - whatever. Ever listen to the marines in their native language? Where does that come from? [whacko] |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 7:17:39 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: (Oh yeah, I am a racial shit stirrer for even mentioning it) You could try to give an insight, if you'd really care. Check back how many times I was answering "German" questions along the lines of "How come Germans always...?", "Why are all Germans...?" &c., so don't give me any "racist!" bullshit. I know some people are having a hard time to understand _me_, vott viff me non-existing akzent and all, but as long as I speak slow and clear, they are OK. It was an honest question, and I find myself indeed baffled how little I understand black people down here in the South (didn't have much exposure to them out West). |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 7:18:17 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: CavVet speaks the very well actually. The soldiers, sailors, and airmen at my command who happen to be black speak perfectly good english as well. Many of the soldiers and airmen have trouble understanding us sailors when we start speaking "squid". When my commander walks into an assembly I shout "attention on deck" which gets the desired result but my first sergeant wants me to say "a-tent-hut" - whatever. Ever listen to the marines in their native language? Where does that come from? [whacko] |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 7:18:44 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Ever listen to the marines in their native language? Where does that come from? [whacko] Hey...don't be knocking us Marines. You all just wish you could be jarheads! [marines] Semper Fi Hey, Paul. Let me have a look at that gay thread, huh?! |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 7:24:46 AM EDT
[#30]
Ever consider that maybe they don't want you to understand them?
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Posted: 6/30/2003 7:25:40 AM EDT
[#31]
It's and honest question that deserves and honest answer.
This topic has been an ongoing debate with educators and linguists for decades. Some believe that "Black vernacular" is a new American dialect, while others argue that it's an amalgam of Southern and West African linguistics, dating back to the legacy of slavery and continuing due to social isolation. I believe that it has more to do with socioeconomics, education and other factors. My parents, both black, were born in a segratated state during the Depression, but both are educated professionals with perfect "King's English." This fact, and having been raised in conservative white suburbia, shaped my current speech pattern (I'm a black guy that talks like Frasier Crane). So why can't you understand the blacks you deal with? One can assume that because you're a bail bondsman, you deal with a clientele that is frequently in trouble with the law, low-income and/or under-educated. Throw in some racial stratification and you might find the answer somewhere. Hope this helps. |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 7:29:51 AM EDT
[#32]
Maybe it is just laziness. After I make them repeat themselves 5 or 6 times, & then get past trying to have them spell, which I can't understand what their spelling either, I get a little insistent that they must speak clearer, & THEN THEY DO! I guess if it's a choice of speaking clearly, or not getting their someone out of jail it motivates them enough to be understood.
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Posted: 6/30/2003 7:40:21 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Maybe it is just laziness. After I make them repeat themselves 5 or 6 times, & then get past trying to have them spell, which I can't understand what their spelling either, I get a little insistent that they must speak clearer, & THEN THEY DO! I guess if it's a choice of speaking clearly, or not getting their someone out of jail it motivates them enough to be understood. I ran into a guy I know at the range (black guy) If you heard him on the phone you would not know he's black,we were talking and when we were done he was talking to another black guy and he slipped into pure ebonics and I could barely make out what he was saying. I still don't know whether it's a lazyness to pronounce words correctly or a new dialect forming in America. In my friends case he speaks both. One thing is for sure when pressed some blacks can articulate themselves very well. |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 7:45:35 AM EDT
[#34]
I've noticed that some people (black or white) change their speech depending on who they're talking to. I'm pretty sure I let my "southern" accent get a little thicker around family than I do at work. I had a black female supervisor once (best boss I've EVER had). She talked perfect English (pronounced better than most people I know), but I heard her on the phone with a friend one time and had to look twice to make sure it was her. She speaks really clear to her kids too - which is why they speak normal English quite clearly as well.
CR |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 7:51:14 AM EDT
[#35]
And clay-more wins the Nobel peace prize for inter-racial understanding. Thank you sir for saying correctly what I was thinking and if I had said it I would most likely be called a cracker. I attended Southern University in Louisiana...an all black school. It was nice to be around the people who knew that they had to speak well and study to get ahead in the world..especially for a very poor white boy from the rural part of Louisiana. Now on the other hand there are always those that don't want to be better----black,white,asian...and I think the asians are the worst...some of them can speak english and won't....
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Posted: 6/30/2003 7:55:14 AM EDT
[#36]
If you really have problems just go here.
http://www.joel.net/EBONICS/translator.asp Sorry, don't know how to make it hot. |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 8:04:59 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: Ever listen to the marines in their native language? Where does that come from? [whacko] Ya, Cops too!!! [:D] (Equal opportunity "basher" [;D]) |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 8:19:27 AM EDT
[#38]
I have little patience for someone who was born in this country and will not make the effort to speak an understandable dialect. Sure, I drawl & slur & mumble when BSing with my friends, but when I am giving a presentation or talking to someone I don't know, I enunciate clearly and speak "neutral" English. By "neutral", I mean the way almost all of the anchors on national news programs speak. To do otherwise is lazy and rude; I have little tolerance for either.
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Posted: 6/30/2003 8:33:58 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Ha! All you guys have accents. Up her in da nort, ya, up by WisCONsin way, we don't have an accent, don't ch'ya know. ah ya i dont hear any accent, i think your speaking real good man eh. Its dos people down a ways i cant ear eh. I tink its cause da dont eat dem der pastys and drink enough of da canadian beer eh. what tya think eh? |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 9:17:06 AM EDT
[#40]
[url=]www.fredoneverything.net/index.html[/url]
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Posted: 6/30/2003 9:25:29 AM EDT
[#41]
Oh man i gotta...
IBTL! |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 9:38:31 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: And clay-more wins the Nobel peace prize for inter-racial understanding. Thank you sir for saying correctly what I was thinking and if I had said it I would most likely be called a cracker. I attended Southern University in Louisiana...an all black school. It was nice to be around the people who knew that they had to speak well and study to get ahead in the world..especially for a very poor white boy from the rural part of Louisiana. Now on the other hand there are always those that don't want to be better----black,white,asian...and I think the asians are the worst...some of them can speak english and won't.... Hound, you're a stud if you attended Southern U. Looks like the experience was a good one for you. |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 10:26:31 AM EDT
[#43]
Being from the northwest, ANY Strong deviation from English at plainest takes complete focus on the conversation to fully understand every word the individual is saying.
When hearing an oriental speak bad English I still only hear the main words and have to piece it together on the fly. I sometimes impress myself when I get into a zone with a customer and use big words and speak plain, northwest English. |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 10:37:01 AM EDT
[#44]
Hopefully, this will not offend anyone, but have you noticed how young white kids are beginning to sound as if they grew up in the 'Hood?
And I'm talking Plano kids from wealthy homes!! They are really pizzed off at their parents for not being able to provide them with a ghetto-lifestyle to complete their transformation. If no one EXPECTS you to talk plainly, you would likely not put much effort in trying to talk plainly. Thomas Sowell, in his 1972 book, Black Education: Myths and Tragedies, included some interesting facts of how Harlem's public school system actually rivaled the rest of NYC's schools in the 30s, 40s, and 50s, in terms of test scores, college placements, and drop-out rates! Then liberal white do-gooders got involved in the education of black children and the rest, as they say, is history! They lowered expectations, lowered standards, began excuse-making on a grand scale, and, sure enough, they got exactly what they said they feared. A [u]separate[/u] America. Wow! The Imperial Wizards of the Ku Klux Klan couldn't have done it any better! Eric The(Well,AtLeastTheirHeartsWereInTheRightPlace,Right?)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 10:47:31 AM EDT
[#45]
A big part of the problem is that in the black community, it is frowned on to speak properly. Those that do are considered "sell outs" or "uncle toms" and are subject to ridicule in most black communities.
This is perpetuated by most black celebrities (actors,comics,musicians) and politicians. |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 11:05:41 AM EDT
[#46]
Don't forget sports "celebrities". When was the last time one had heard them conduct an interview using correct grammar. (without making it a joke, for ex. S. O'Neal)
I'd have to say it's culture again that's causing this. When I went to school we needed to know how to write business and personl letters. Someone mentioned if the Blacks in England had this problem. It's the same with the people from the West Indies or Jaimaca. I'm sure they endured hardships the same as the people here but they sure do speak better. (very singsongish) |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 11:22:28 AM EDT
[#47]
Well, I just got back from running some errands, & while I was out I stopped in at Wal-Mart to get some stuff for my sons newly acquired box turtle. My dad caught it under my moms brand new Jag.[:D]
Any way I asked a black female stocking a shelf, where pet's supplies were located in the store. At 1st her directions were clear, & understandable with no effort, & all of a sudden it was like one of those cell phone commercials where the voice gets scrambled. I just nodded as she continued to speak & went in the direction she had pointed when 1st she spoke.[rolleyes] |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 11:27:33 AM EDT
[#48]
Hell it isn't just speaking that is the problem. Have you seen the crap that the blacks actually write down? It is a jumble of incoherent gibberish. My guess is that the root is in the thought process. They can't think coherently so therefore they don't speak coherently. Of course, lest ye forget, there are some white dudes who speak the same way, so it is obviously not limited to race.
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Posted: 6/30/2003 11:40:06 AM EDT
[#49]
No, it is not limited to race.
The new MTV hip and cool thing is to sound like ghetto creatures. So even the non Black youth can talk this way. But the non-Black folks can shut it off and be intelligible. What is so very very frustrating though, is that there are many Black folks down South here that I really really *like*. They are friendly, have very decent ethics, work with my husband, etc., etc., but I can only get about 30% of what they are *saying* to me. These are not kids, they are family folks, over 35. I would love to be able to be closer friends with these families, they are good people. But I *cannot* understand wtf they are friggin *saying*! I have a great grasp of dialects and accents, from many years of working with diverse groups of folks. But the Southern Black Dialect has me totally baffled. This is English? It is mush mouthed and totally garbled. WTF? |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 11:44:17 AM EDT
[#50]
Hell none of you Americans can speak correctly no matter what race!!
Well...maybe some of the northern states.. |
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