The Navy/Marine Corps can whip the Army and Air Force any day!  

Take that!  

Who can argue with that?

In baton twirling.

In bootcamp one of my comapny commanders told me that it is not allowed to tuck in your tie when wearing working blues.  I think the Army and AF do this.  Navy doesn't.  He said because since our inception no Navy ship has ever retreated from battle.  He likened it to tucking a tail between you legs like a whipped dog.  [:D]

This is the best thread I've read all day.

LOL!!!

My wife just gave me the "Oh, your back on that site again" look.

I get that look too.[:D]

Ok, how about the IDF vs. the Army?
OR The IDF vs. the MARINES in Urban combat.....

Beat that one!

The Marines will kick ass anyday, why, cause they've got M*****!!!

SEMPER FI!!!!!
[marines]

Shhhhhhh.

In a ground fight, MAYBE.  But if the rules are more relaxed,  well, there's not much you can do to stop from getting vaporized when a fleet of B-1's, B-2's, and B-52's throws a shitstorm of nuclear tipped cruise missiles and gravity bombs in your general direction.   And of course, don't forget those nasty ICBM's.    

In this respect, the Navy would place second, as their boomers have so many ICBM's available.   The Army and Marine Corps would simply vaporize.

But we wouldn't do that because we're all American fighting men and we support each other!

CJ

Can't we all just get along? [:)]

In this hypothetical, it would depend on the scenario:

If the Army/AF is defending, then they win. Numbers and stealth technology being the edge, since all else would be equal.

If the Army has to attack, or the battle takes place in a location that requires the Army to move units in over a long (i.e. 'too far to drive') distance, than USN/USMC wins (since the Army will have no armor. Pigs fly better than M1s (1 tank per flight))).

But we'll hopefully never have to see Americans fight Americans again (one civil war is enough), so it's kind of moot...

The Marine Corps has 3 Air Wings, quite a few aircraft, not just helos.  Combined Arms.  Man maybe I spent too much time in the Quackenbush.. and Camp Wilson if you know what I mean.

Marines=MARPAT=no contest
[:O]

Yeah, [b]I[/b] know what you mean - your brains got cooked in those frikkin' corrugated-tin A-frames! ;)

i get giddy at the thought of how much money Uncle Sam would save if they got rid of the Army and Air Force and kept just the Navy/Marine Corps team!!!

think about it.

aCTUALLY, THIS IS PRETTY DAMN SILLY.  lOOK AT AIRPOWER; HEAVY LIFT, HEAVY BOMBERS, AND INTERCEPT.
(Damn caps lock).

Anyway, the Jarheads and squids just don't have the numbers to defend against the AF and Army.
They may be elite, but there just aren't enough of them to go around.

A squadron of FA-18s against an air wing of F15 and F16s is just not a fair fight.

of course the Navy/Marine Corps team will just have to assimilate all the assets from the AF and Army. so there goes your theory.

Really I see it this way (as it matters)

The Army and AF when the wars the Marines/Navy clean up the mess.

I thought in Iraq the Marines were the tip of the spear and the Army just stayed around to police and clean up the mess?

I saw it as the AF as the tip.

Here's how to get the fire started.


USMC is a bunch of WOMEN!
kidding. i love marines. there pretty looking


;P

[b]A squadron of FA-18s against an air wing of F15 and F16s is just not a fair fight[/b]

You are correct sir!

Poor zoomies wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell against the finest.....Navy/Marine Corps Aviation.[:p]

That's funny.  A Lawn Dart flight would eat them up, and any rational observer would agree.
F/A anything just can't be the best at either F or A.

I am partial to the Navy Aviators, but reality is what it is.  Oh, BTW; the Army/AF have Patriots.

How do you keep a squad of Marines entertained?


Give them a sheep!

MARPAT! MARPAT! M A R P A T ! ! !  M  A  R  P  A  T  !   !   !
IBTL!

The weasel is in the hen house.

repeat,

The weasel is in the hen house.

I'd bet against you

When it comes to Vipers vs. Super Bugs, (or regular bugs, for that matter), the determining factor is the skill of the pilot, and most importantly, the skill he demonstrates in keeping the fight within the parameters that favors his bird best.    The F-16 is a rate fighter, meaning that its turn rate is one of its design strengths, while the F/A-18 is a radius fighter, meaning that one of its design strengths is its tight turn RADIUS.   The two would SEEM to be closely related, but they're not.   Reason is, the F-16 is capable of sustaining a full NINE gee's if it has sufficient energy (forward velocity) for the flight control surfaces to operate at their maximum efficiency, while the F/A-18 is limited to 7.5 gee's, max.

It's this additional 1.5 gee's capability that gives the Viper the edge in a turning fight.  Also, the Viper has an advantage in raw power and can out-accelerate an F/A-18.

The F-16's nickname and reputation as a "lawn dart" is largely due to the fact that its 9 gee limitation has allowed more than one pilot to G-LOC himself right into the ground (Gee-induced Loss Of Consciousness),  while this is less likely to occur at 7.5 gee's.     If you remove the known and probable G-LOC induced crashes from the F-16's record,  you get a safety of flight record that is comparable to if not better than any other fighter in service.

I gather that an update to the F-16's flight control program will keep the plane from flying uncontrolled into the ground.   It is a relatively simple thing to do this on a plane that has a computer in the loop between the pilot and the control surfaces.     We have some planes that can fly through canyons at 100 feet constant relative altitude at mach 1 plus on autopilot, so technically, keeping a plane from crashing into terrain isn't that much of a challenge.

As for the Eagle vs. the bug,  that's another story entirely.  I don't know how that would turn out, but I can say that practice engagements between Eagles and Vipers results in the F-16 winning a large percentage of the time.  I think that of the three types, F-15, F-16, and F/A-18, the best place to be is in the F-16 if it's going  to be a down and dirty dogfight at close ranges.


CJ

Does the air force/marines/navy still dogfight? I thought almost all aerial engagements were air-air missiles. On that note how would FA18 or F16 fare agianst a few hundred patriot (or whatever else would be appropriate) missiles? To remove a navy from existence simply detonate a nuke smack dab in the middle of the fleet. Carriers can not float upside down under water.
Modern battle for the US relies on air superiority. Do you think the USAF could do this against a modern ground force? How could the navy defend itself against the aforementioned nuclear strike?
I believe since the USMC and the USA would hold out best of all. It is hard to take the ground from either but removing the sea from the navy and denying the USAF the air would be possible.
The USMC would hang tough but their size would be the ultimate factor here.
As USAF/USA vs. USMC/USN goes think logistics and battle field. If you want to save the sargasso sea from invaders then bet on the USMC/USN, if you want to defend a land mass then go with USA/USAF.
Just my opinion.

YES, the Air Force trains its fighter pilots to dogfight.  So does the Navy.   That includes proper application of missiles AND guns.  

You can only carry so many missiles.  When you're Winchester (reliant on guns because you're out of missiles) then you'd BETTER know how to knife fight!

Yes, it so happens that gun fights are going to happen.   Missiles, even the best ones, miss their targets a lot or fail to disable them.  If they always hit, they'd be called HITTILES, now wouldn't they?


Who's going to dump a nuke on a carrier task force?  There are only three nations (counting the former Soviet Union as one) on earth that have the capability to do that, and we're not at odds with either of them.    Even then, unless you dumped a really BIG one, a lot of the task force will remain afloat and even battle capable.

You'd make a big mistake in underestimating the Navy OR the Air Force.   There is no getting around the fact that the ability to bomb your enemies into radioactive submission from a LONG way away is a pretty tough hand to beat.

If the Air Force and the Navy had to go up against an enemy ground/marine force that was identical in capabilities, size, and training to our own Army and Navy,   the winners would unquestionably be the Air Force and Navy.  The enemy marines can't do much against ships if they have no seaworthy vessels to hitch a ride on,  and the enemy army and marines can't do much against a flock of cruise missiles, which would b delivered by both the Navy and the Air Force.  Once the enemy army's Patriot-type missile batteries were out of the picture, (and that'd take a few days at most, I imagine) then the heavy bombing campaign would begin.  JDAM city.  Delivered from planes you can't detect at times you can't predict.

It'd be an ass kicking.


You'd have to deny the water to the Navy and the air to the Air Force for this to run otherwise.

CJ

Damn. Beat me to it. IBTL.