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Posted: 5/7/2003 9:08:14 AM EDT
[#1]
The general consensus of this site is that Wranglers are capable and cool, but otherwise quite a POS. However, thus far, people like their liberties, although not much time has elapsed.
My only thought is to carefully consider your compromise. How much off road driving do you do? And how hard core is it? |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 9:08:41 AM EDT
[#2]
thems apples and oranges you are comparing.
You looking for a SUV or a capable off-road vehicle? Therein lies the answer to your question. |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 9:13:02 AM EDT
[#3]
Overpriced, IMHO. I have a CJ-5, 1975. Wranglers are (basically) the same thing, with a padded dash, carpet, and a nice radio. If you want an off-roading vehicle, get a used one.
If you want a daily driver, OK, get one. My knees don't fit in the liberty. |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 9:15:10 AM EDT
[#4]
If the vehicle's primary mission will be offroad, and you are really going to go rock crawling a lot and expect to commonly find yourself in the most severe of offroad situations, get the Wrangler.
If the street is a big part of the vehicle's mission, and offroading is secondary, get the Liberty. some of the guys on the Libery forum on jeepsunlimited take their Liberties into some pretty hairy places, so I don't think the capability is a lot less than the Wrangler, but you get better gas mileage and a more comfortable on-road ride as a trade-off for a little off-road prowess. edited to add: I own a Libery and love it, but I never attempt any hardcore offroading, just easy stuff. |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 9:22:10 AM EDT
[#5]
As soon as I sell my truck I am going out to buy a Wrangler, but it is going to be a fun thing, not daily transportation. I am liking the Sahara, the Rubicon looks like it may be geared to low end for daily driving, and I fear the lockers may mean mechanical problems down the road as they are air acuatiated.I think the duel top option will be nice for a fun vehicle. Invoice is around 21,000 for a new one but the 04's are out or coming out so that allows for a little lee way, remember you got a 500.00 vet rebate coming from Jeep, but don't expect the dealer to advertise it , check out the Jeep web page. Good luck
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Posted: 5/7/2003 9:29:24 AM EDT
[#6]
Get the Wrangler, but not the Rubicon. Get a mechanical locker for the front axle and wheel 'til it breaks, then replace the axle(s) with a ford 8.8.
Offroad vehicles aren't bought, they're built. FWIW, I've done some serious wheeling with the 35/30 setup w/o breakage. Oh, and if you're interested in the Liberty, you might as well go out and get a RAV-4 and put a rainbow sticker on the back. |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 9:38:19 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Oh, and if you're interested in the Liberty, you might as well go out and get a RAV-4 and put a rainbow sticker on the back. Dude, Decaf....! There's nothing wrong with a RAV4, it's just built for a different purpose. You won't see it on the trail with you, but how may rebuilds will you have done at 200,000 while it's still moving along. I just bought a '94 GMC, and guess what, it's two tone Teal/Grey. I've been taking some friendly ribbing, but some guys are dead serious that only a homo would drive such a colored truck. Gimmie a break! True, I'd rather have a different scheme, but this was the best of the ones I saw, so color became immaterial. |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 9:41:10 AM EDT
[#8]
I got a suggestion...get a Chevy instead.
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Posted: 5/7/2003 9:43:25 AM EDT
[#9]
Worked as a quick-service tech at a jeep dealership for awhile....you could buy a sport and trick it out, but it would probably cost you more than 4k and it would void your warranty...with the rubicon, all mods are factory warranteed. That being said, everybody knows about the chrysler quality control issues...you either get a great one, or you get a POS. Almost bought a rubicon...got a Tacoma TRD 4x4 instead. That rubicon is a pain in the ass to drive daily. You have to really want the rubicon package, and be able to make the compromise...
The liberty, on the other hand, is a great buy. Excellent powertrain, handles great, and is very capable off-road, as well. I had one for several months as a demo, and while the styling is a bit funky, it really won me over. If you get the liberty, get the Renegade package...IIRC, it's still cheaper than the Rubicon, and alot more useful. I don't think anyone would disagree that the Ruby is a bad MF, but it's alot of money for a specialty jeep that rides like ass...Bottom line, [as someone else already said], what do you really need? |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 9:45:56 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Quoted: Oh, and if you're interested in the Liberty, you might as well go out and get a RAV-4 and put a rainbow sticker on the back. Dude, Decaf....! There's nothing wrong with a RAV4, it's just built for a different purpose. You won't see it on the trail with you, but how may rebuilds will you have done at 200,000 while it's still moving along. I just bought a '94 GMC, and guess what, it's two tone Teal/Grey. I've been taking some friendly ribbing, but some guys are dead serious that only a homo would drive such a colored truck. Gimmie a break! True, I'd rather have a different scheme, but this was the best of the ones I saw, so color became immaterial. So you're saying you traded in your RAV-4 for the GMC? [ROFL2] |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 9:51:09 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Oh, and if you're interested in the Liberty, you might as well go out and get a RAV-4 and put a rainbow sticker on the back. Yeah, I can see how you could be confused: [img]http://www.rocky-road.com/media/kj1.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 9:53:27 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Worked as a quick-service tech at a jeep dealership for awhile....you could buy a sport and trick it out, but it would probably cost you more than 4k and it would void your warranty...with the rubicon, all mods are factory warranteed. That being said, everybody knows about the chrysler quality control issues...you either get a great one, or you get a POS. Almost bought a rubicon...got a Tacoma TRD 4x4 instead. That rubicon is a pain in the ass to drive daily. You have to really want the rubicon package, and be able to make the compromise... The liberty, on the other hand, is a great buy. Excellent powertrain, handles great, and is very capable off-road, as well. I had one for several months as a demo, and while the styling is a bit funky, it really won me over. If you get the liberty, get the Renegade package...IIRC, it's still cheaper than the Rubicon, and alot more useful. I don't think anyone would disagree that the Ruby is a bad MF, but it's alot of money for a specialty jeep that rides like ass...Bottom line, [as someone else already said], what do you really need? Yes the Rubi has the factory warranty on those HD parts, but read the fine print...won't cover most types of off-road breakage. Also, making mods won't void your warranty - of course they won't warrant the parts you install, but the other stuff is still covered unless the breakage is a result of your mod. (ie you install stronger U-joints and break an axle or drive shaft as a result) Go here: [url]http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/[/url] It's the AR15.com of jeeps |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 10:17:07 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Quoted: Oh, and if you're interested in the Liberty, you might as well go out and get a RAV-4 and put a rainbow sticker on the back. Yeah, I can see how you could be confused: [url]http://www.rocky-road.com/media/kj1.jpg[/url] HAHA! thats a cute picture! but wheres the rainbow sticker? |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 10:22:57 AM EDT
[#14]
I have driven a 2001 blazer and 94 and 95 expolorer and a few jeeps I cant rember the years. I have never felt comfortable in any of them.
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Posted: 5/7/2003 12:00:12 PM EDT
[#15]
To answer the [i]original question[/i], get the Liberty. I did and am glad I did. I didnt see you say you are going rock crawling, anything else the Liberty is capable of. Add the great on road handling for a daily driver. I love my Libby, wouldnt trade it for the world, but will love it more when I get done adding a few more things.
You also better stop and check to make sure you have a thick skin. The above references to a fag car are the norm from the Wrangler girls. For one reason or the other, you see photo proof of the Lib going everywhere they go, but they still have bad things to say about something they know nothing of. I think its their latent homosexuality manifested in jealousy. And Mugzilla, Im 6'5" & have plenty of knee room. How damn tall are you???? [img]http://home.attbi.com/~molaligne/blkkjonside.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 12:06:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: the Wrangler girls [ROFL2] |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 1:22:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Chrysler = CRAP.
Jeep = CHEAP POS |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 1:32:03 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Chrysler = CRAP. Jeep = CHEAP POS |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 1:35:43 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Chrysler = CRAP. Jeep = CHEAP POS Again, the thread was "[b]Jeep Owners[/b]" followed by a question...He didnt ask for trolling... Would you be one of them? If so and you thnk that, why havent you sold it? |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 1:39:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: To answer the [i]original question[/i], get the Liberty. I did and am glad I did. I didnt see you say you are going rock crawling, anything else the Liberty is capable of. Add the great on road handling for a daily driver. I love my Libby, wouldnt trade it for the world, but will love it more when I get done adding a few more things. You also better stop and check to make sure you have a thick skin. The above references to a fag car are the norm from the Wrangler girls. For one reason or the other, you see photo proof of the Lib going everywhere they go, but they still have bad things to say about something they know nothing of. I think its their latent homosexuality manifested in jealousy. And Mugzilla, Im 6'5" & have plenty of knee room. How damn tall are you???? [url]http://home.attbi.com/~molaligne/blkkjonside.jpg[/url] CavVet, cause of that pic I am going to take back what I said about the Liberty. It is NOT the "bastard child of the Cherokee". My only experience offroading went very badly. |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 2:15:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: To answer the [i]original question[/i], get the Liberty. I did and am glad I did. I didnt see you say you are going rock crawling, anything else the Liberty is capable of. Add the great on road handling for a daily driver. I love my Libby, wouldnt trade it for the world, but will love it more when I get done adding a few more things. You also better stop and check to make sure you have a thick skin. The above references to a fag car are the norm from the Wrangler girls. For one reason or the other, you see photo proof of the Lib going everywhere they go, but they still have bad things to say about something they know nothing of. I think its their latent homosexuality manifested in jealousy. And Mugzilla, Im 6'5" & have plenty of knee room. How damn tall are you???? [url]http://home.attbi.com/~molaligne/blkkjonside.jpg[/url] Thanks CV. I have done some shopping online, and have found some viable candidates. I think I am leaning away from the Rubicon. I can get a cheaper Wrangler and do the stuff to it I want, and not have that money tied up in financing. Have a couple of Liberty's to check out as well. Will probably all come down to financing. I am doing this to free up some money for my wife to go get the new Expedition that she wants, so, it wont do me any good to get back into something at the same payments I am making now. I have got my numbers all lined up, so we'll see how much the dealers want to deal. Luckily, we have like 5 major Jeep dealers here so it should be pretty easy to get one to work with me on the numbers. And no, we dont have to many big rocks here in FL to climb, but plenty of sand, mud, dirt, a few hills, lots of ditches, rutted out fire trails, and some wet woods with no trail at all. |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 2:17:07 PM EDT
[#22]
Well Im gonna reply and say that my 95 Wrangler is still in top shape running like a champ. Not any problems at all.
Im not sure where all these problems come from but Ive those around me with Jeeps and not have any problems with them. Personally I wouldnt mind having the Rubicon just for the damn axles. Aside form that I have other thoughts on what I want for my Jeep. Plus the new interior is too small for my frame 6'7" 260. heres a pic [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid43/p3fbd1e3f8bc3d30f1add160bdade8f75/fce9a19b.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid53/p7cac7fc7c21e31c3cafd9147ff275901/fc926a98.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 2:44:24 PM EDT
[#23]
The Rubicon is a bargin at that price. Just add up the cost of parts. Lockers front and rear $1200, dana 44 $800, 4-1 T case $2000, skid plates $300, drive shafts $400. So if you were to do the work yourself you would spend $4700 in parts and still have to do the work.
The 4 wheel drive club hold a how to clinc twice a year so I get to see a lot of new vehicles off road. Nothing under $40,000 comes close to the Wrangler off road. |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 2:48:35 PM EDT
[#24]
Looks good SB. That was my biggest attraction to the Rubicon as well was the front and rear Dana 44's. However, the 44 is an option for the rear on the sports, and I have found one at a local dealer with the 44 rear, and 3.73's. That will hold me over for a while as I dont plan on going bigger than 32's, or 33's at most. The 4:1 low range on the Rubicon is nice, but I think its biggest advantage is on the rocks our west. Dont have many of them here so I think that the standard t-case will work for my use. I am really leaning towards this one Wrangler. I have the window sticker printout and am going to look at it Sat., along with a few others and a couple of Liberty's.
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Posted: 5/7/2003 3:06:59 PM EDT
[#25]
What a coincidence! I'm looking at Wranglers too. To those who think they are a POS, why? name some problems with them. I like the things but I wanna know about any pitfalls before I buy.
BTW, I'm not looking for a new one, I'm in the 10k & below range (Hopefully 6.5 - 7k), reliability is very important. |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 3:10:40 PM EDT
[#26]
I'd buy the Rubicon if it were me. Of course building a Jeep is lots of fun and really cheap (yeah, right) but I've seen lots of Rubicons at Turkey Bay, our local OHV area, and they seem pretty capable.
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Posted: 5/7/2003 3:36:47 PM EDT
[#27]
If you're not rock crawling, you have no real need for the 4:1 t-case, which is the big benefit of the Rubi. You're probably not going to need the twin Dana 44s either.
I have a '00 Wrangler sport with a 3" tera lift and discos, the 35/30 axle combo, and 33" BFT MTs, and a pile of other extras. I carry a spare pair of axles when off-road, and never think twice about breakage. In Florida, the Rubi is WAY overkill. You'll regret spending the extra $$$ unless you drive out of state to offroad. [img]http://a5.cpimg.com/image/0F/CE/7347215-efc9-02400180-.jpg[/img] [img]http://a2.cpimg.com/image/16/53/2264342-303c-02000180-.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 3:52:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Before you buy anything check out the Jeep Grand Cherokee "OVERLAND" you will love it.
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Posted: 5/7/2003 4:06:01 PM EDT
[#29]
Good looking rig NoVa. Thats what I was thinking too about the t-case. The Wrangler I am going to look at actually has the 44 rear and the 30 front, so it should be plenty strong.
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Posted: 5/7/2003 5:26:47 PM EDT
[#30]
If you want an SUV get a SUV, otherwise get a used wrangler w/ stick. The wrangler has great geometry and a huge aftermarket. IMO, the liberty is a marginal SUV w/ weak axles,an average platfrom, and a premium prive.
FYI, this is a rental trooper driven by a guys gilfriend in mOab. In other words, jeeps aren't the only show in town http://www.trailseeker.com/4x4/Crawloween/chris-btr/images/MVC-880F.jpg |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 2:44:36 AM EDT
[#31]
I had a 1999 Jeep Cherokee. I wont buy another.
Unless you are doing some serious off roading, there are better choices than the Jeeps. A Suburu Forester will get you just about anywhere. A Suburu WRX will get you most places, and get you laid. |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 5:59:37 AM EDT
[#32]
Naw, go out and get a 1977 Ford Bronco. Better axles, disc brake conversions are available, drop-in 5.0 EFI engines are everywhere, and you will actually be able to carry something with the extra space in the back.
MG[;)] |
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Posted: 5/8/2003 7:02:05 AM EDT
[#33]
I've had my Jeep ('02 TJ) almost a year. Use it as a daily driver.
I don't know why people don't like them. I love mine. It drives like a truck because it is one, not a BMW. If you don't like the way it rides, it doesn't make it a POS. That is just people's taste. |
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Posted: 5/10/2003 2:09:55 PM EDT
[#34]
Did you get one today ????
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Posted: 5/10/2003 2:48:54 PM EDT
[#35]
I had a YJ and though I hated it on trips, it was the damn best off road I've ever owned. It would climb damn near anything. My first week I was tooling along and before you know it, in the snow, I was on a mountain peak with a cliff on three sides. I felt just a wee bit stupid for I hadn't even made a payment.
I started out really disliking the Liberty primarily for the styling. The more I heard about the off road ability and reliabilty the more my dislike lessened. The looks kind of grow on you so I know where your heads at. 4X4's are like ARs, once you've had one you won't do without one. Mines a 4X4 Dakota Sport complete with Billbobjimjack light bars and lights. |
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Posted: 5/10/2003 2:55:17 PM EDT
[#36]
I just paid for my 2003 Liberty Limited, which I'll be picking up when I get back stateside next month. Bought it through the Overseas Military Car Sales program.
Got all the options except for the towing package and the custom wheel package, $25,812 total. Chris |
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Posted: 5/10/2003 3:23:38 PM EDT
[#37]
I personally like my Grand Cherokee Laredo with the 6 cyl Hi torque engine and the selectrac 4wd. It is roomier than the afore mentioned options and is not really a primary off road vehicle, but it does one hell of a job pulling my boat. It is comfortable to drive and no ragtop noise. It has great cargo capacity and for an SUV, gets really good fuel mileage. I would only trade it in on another newer one. Mine is a 99. As to the Liberty, make sure you get that integral off road light system on the roof. Them things will put out some serious light.
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Posted: 5/10/2003 4:02:58 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Did you get one today ???? [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=185945[/url] Thanks to everyone for the thoughts and opinons. They were greatly appreciated. |
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