"Rangemaster", You're F*ckin-A right I'm ready to beat the slop out of ANYbody who insults the service or sacrifices made by those who have, or do, serve this country. And no, I wouldn't want a pansy like you in my squad either, so KMA.

Hold on a minute, you all.  Most people don't hate veterans, they are merely ambivalent. (Don't care either way)  They certainly don't like veterans beating them over the head with their military service.

Look at it from a non-veteran's point of view.  He got a job or went to college after high school, works hard, raises his kids, and pays his taxes to support the military.  And yet, there are some scumbags who, by simple virtue of enlisting in the military, spend their entire lives bad-mouthing civilians.

Come on, boys, generally speaking the military is just not that hard or dangerous now days. (Or, with the exception of the Marines, particularly disciplined)  When was the last major war where the troops were "dying like dogs for no apparent reason?"

Even if you do land in a physically difficult and dangerous MOS, in our volunteer military who's fault is that?  It's not like you were drafted.

As far as all that patriotic hokum, well, if you are one of the few who actually enlisted for patriotism, I salute you.  The fact is that the military is predominantly advertised (and has been for the last 20 years) as a job training program.  How many would enlist if there was no job training or college money?

I did, but  I just wanted adventure.  This is hardly a patriotic reason.

As for defending our freedom, well, again I salute you.  But as much as I approve of the use of military force as an instrument of foreign policy, it would be hard to convince me that Panama, Grenada, Somalia, Beirut, Kosovo, and Haiti had anything to do with our freedom.  I'll grant you that the Gulf War was fought for legitimate reasons, but cheap gas is hardly a worthy subject for patriotic songs.

Let us all, as veterans, climb down from our high horses.  I bet if you dig around, the veterans who are the most vocal about their past hardships are probably frauds. Either didn't serve or drove trucks in the rear.

When I enlisted, I told them it was Combat Arms, or nothing. I enlisted because I felt (and still do) that every able man should serve his country for at least 2 years. Indifference I can live with. It's these turds who say that "They're just in it for the bennies" or "They just couldn't get a REAL job" or "They don't deserve the benefits they get" that piss me off to no end! And "Rangemaster", You don't know a g*dd*mn thing about me, or my "self control." When did I say that I have beat up somebody over an insult to my service? Take some reading comprehension classes, moron.

"Beating them over the head" is just an expression.  A metaphor, you understand, for how some veterans describe their heroic military service to civilians.

Flame off, dude.  I'll say it again, there are harder things than military service for which people can be proud.  I'm starting medical school in August (I was accepted to LSU Shreveport School of Medicine) and I can assure you that this will be many times more rigorous than my years as a Marine infantryman.  Should doctors "beat" non-doctors over the head because they didn't go to medical school?  Should they lord it over the nurses?

Of course not.  We live in a free country.  Your hardship, family separation, low pay, and long hours are self-inflicted.

I don't (as far as I know) "beat any body over the head", but I AM proud of my service, and everyone elses, too. I just HATE it when people insult the integrity of the US military, and I REALLY hate it when people defend those who do insult us. When I describe my service to my friends (NONE of whom is a Veteran, by the way), I tell 'em that while I had some really great times, probably 90% of it absolutely SUCKS! (IG inspections, NCO politics, etc.) Most of them say they wanted to, but couldn't, for one reason or another. The hardship & family seperation IS pretty much self-inflicted, but the low pay is CONGRESS-inflicted.

I joined the army back in '86, and you know what?  I did it solely for the GI College bucks.  At that time I didn't really think one way or the other about the military and our vets.  It was just a job I took to put me through school.  A few years of service changed my mind though.  The freedoms we have and enjoy today are because of two things; the Constitution and our military.  The reason I have a good job, a healthy family, a safe and secure place to live, and an enjoyable life is because over the past 200 years vets have been fighting for you, me, and our children.  Every time I hear someone saying we shouldn't get involved, or that it was wrong of us to be in such-in-such war I just feel like shoving a couple boat tickets in their hands and telling them to "love it or leave it."  I don't agree with everything our government does, but I do support our military 110%!

Now this may draw a lot of flak, but I strongly feel that what this country needs is a mandatory 2-year conscription for kids when they get out of high school.  Kids have no concept whatsoever about the price that has been paid for the life they take so much for granted.  I say put them in the military, ship them overseas, and give them a little look-see of what life is like in places where there were no "vets" to make a stand, fight the good fight, and keep their land safe for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.  I tell you, a year and a half on the DMZ in Korea is an excellent wake-up call!  It would also teach them some responsibility, give them some self-confidence, and hell... it would even give them training in a valuable skill!  Will this ever happen?  I seriously doubt it.  What a shame...

MelonPepper - You're not alone, brother.

Semper Fi.

NordicG3K, conscription makes a lot of sense for our youth.  An opt-out can be available to at lease put them in a 3rd-world country so they can appreciate what their elders have build in the US.
Melonpopper, sorry you couldn't understand my post.  I had a bone to pick with redray's suggestion that it's okay to pound on people who's 1st amendment rights are different from his.  For all he knows that immigrant is here because my government made a promise it couldn't keep, or by bad luck picked the wrong leader to support in the last election.  I've personally seen how the ChiComs operate in "our back yard" so please don't bother.  We're on the same team.

I hear ya, man. Mandatory service would be good for the entire country, I really feel this way. The best thing I got out of the Army was discipline. (and to all you Marines, believe it or not, there are some units in the regular Army that are just as disciplined as the CORPS)Like Death_By_AR15, I agree with very little our Gov't does, but any who serve our country and its' people in the military deserve our respect and support.

I guess I didn't see that one. Or for that matter even hear about it. If in deed it is true, then you are correct.

19D ten years, Honorably!!
**Only ones who have served can say FTA.**

yes i get upset. but read my post again you fucking idiot. did i say i got into a fight? i have a lot of pride in what i went through, neither you (a goddamned kid no less, with today's kid's attitudes) nor some fruit from way down south will ever speak negatively about it. WE SERVED WITH PRIDE, you asshole !  do you read that? i wouldnt want you in my squad neither. id personally kick you and your fucking attitude out myself. out.






hoo-yah !  

"Redray" sorry I couldn't get to a keyboard to answer your post.  Yes, you didn't get in a fight.  I just read an attitude into your post that didn't square with the veterans I know.  
You and I totally agree on some immigrants having the wrong idea about military benefits (more like bare-bones subsistence) but as a manager if I caught wind of comments like that, I'd show you the door.  Either I've got you pegged totally wrong, or I just hang with a different class of veterans.

rangemaster,

ok i may have over-reacted to your original post. but i will not change my reaction to a non-citizen bad mouthing VETERANS, who gave him (again, a non-citizen, just to remind you ) the freedom to come to the UNITED STATES of AMERICA and find opportunity and a chance to make something better of himself. the way i see it, service members have died, and continue to do so, not only for Americans, but for those with a desire to find something other than what his/her crap country can offer.     for a person from another country to negatively criticize my Veteran brothers and sisters is unforgiveable. specially since this country gave this person the same rights as you and i (except voting priveleges thank God), a good paying job, state and federal benefits, tax cuts, etc..   i was pissed because of his lack of respect and gratitude.

look and ask around rangemaster,   i represent the class of Veterans you say you hang with.  

just out of curiosity, the Vets you hang with, are they career? or just a one-hitch type folks?
doesnt make a diff to me. just wanted to know.

This is a military town.  Both retired career, science professionals and multi-hitch Vietnam vets.  The others don't last out here, and move on.  Hey, so you have strong opinions, but you have the last word...

Hey, ROCKY!  
It sounds like we're from the same era, and I thank you for serving, whereas I did not, although I have had the wallet worn registration card on me since I was 18.
I'm not a wannabe, I'm a "wish I had".
Thanks to  ALL the Veterans out there.