I need a new road bike.
I have seen the light and shall never go to the darkness that is mountain biking ever again.

That being said I want to stay at the $1000 range. I must also have an aluminum frame.
This bike will be solely for semi long distance touring 70+ miles or more.

I've narrowed it down to 2 bikes

1. Specialized Allez Elite 27

2. Felt F65


Any thoughts or alternatives?

Cannondale's been my favorite since they first came out.

I have a Cannondale from about '93.  seen more miles on the trainer than road and not to much recently... I really should get back on that thing.

as far as road vs mtn..?

I'm torn, I sold my Trek Mtn bike to get the Cannondale road.  kinda wish I had both (and the time/weather to make use of them) [:)]

I was looking at a cannondale R600. But it had a real mix of components a bit of a turn off if you ask me.

I wouldn't let that scare me off.

I bought my first Cannondale after test riding the first one into our shop.  Loved the stiffness, and have bought many more since.  I sold tons for years.

Cannondale is a class act.  The mix probably represents their pick of best component for the money.

OK -
I gotta ask.
What's the problem with MTB?
I started bike life in MN on a road bike, and loved it!
Then, when I moved to AZ I bought a Specialized FXR Extreme for mountain biking, and loved it!
Now I have both.
Don't give up one for another - they both have their places.
The riders I encounter in both groups are wonderful (even though they usually disagree in portent).
Me thinks you got involved with some "Hard Balling MTB'rs", for me - not a good or a fun ride....
The pleasures of off road are great, think hard about giving it up.
Terry

I highly recommend the Yamaha V-Star 1100 classic - It's a little outside of your $1,000 range, but the ride is fantastic !   [;D]

[url]http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/UnitImage.asp?lid=2&lc=mcy&cid=4&mid=19&iid=3167[/url]

I also recommend the motorcycle safety course, your local DMV can get ya headed in the right direction to get signed up...

Luger, I did this analysis for a friend.  Saw your post and copied it out here.  Good luck.  Hellfinger

Navarra, Fuji, Douglas, Giant, KHS, Jamis are all good brands made in Taiwan.
Taiwan is lower quality, but adequate welding and highest value.
Bianchi listed below is made in Italy.  Italian is very nice welding but lowest value, because they are artists.
Lemond is made in the USA.  USA is nice welding.
All bikes below are at least Shimano 105 or Campe Veloce braking and drive components.
Bikes below generally have name brand stem, seatpost, bars, wheels, and tires.
Get a carbon fork if you get an aluminum frame.  A necessity for vibe reduction.
If a steel frame, get carbon fork if you can, but steel is fine, too.
Try to get 631 (good USA steel) or 853 (best USA steel) if USA or Taiwanese steel.
There are too many Italian steels to mention, but steel listed below if fine.
Pros ride steel, carbon and aluminum.
Steel is generally 1-2 pounds heavier than aluminum, but much more comfortable than aluminum.
Carbon frame is not feasible in your price target.
Stay with steel if you don't mind an extra pound and >=$1200.  You will appreciate the ride and you won't notice the weight as long as you stay under 22 pounds in this price range.


Navarra Strada
Aluminum frame and fork.
Probably a punishing ride.  Don't do it.
http://www.rei.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=11727580&prmenbr=8000&cgrfnbr=4500865
$1095


Bianchi Veloce
Steel made in Italy.  Carbon fork, too.  Celeste or black/yellow.  22 lbs.  Lugged frame.  Beautiful in celeste.
Heavy, but probably a really plush ride.  The best-selling Bianchi road bike.
http://www.bianchiusa.com/site/bikes/road/02_veloce.html
http://www.bikepro.com/directions/bianchi.html
$1300


Fuji Roubaix
Taiwanese aluminum.  Has a carbon fork.  19 lbs.  Great price at $1000.
Really light and probably a semi-comfortable ride.
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/road_bikes.htm
http://www.fujibike.com/2002/usa/html/main/frameset.htm
$1000 at www.realitybikes.com.  Otherwise $1100.


KHS 700
Taiwanese aluminum.  Has a carbon fork.  22 lbs.
Kind of heavy for aluminum.  Probably semi-comfortable.  Get the Fuji instead if you want aluminum/carbon/105.
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/02KHS/khs_flite_700.htm
http://www.khsbicycles.com/page119.html
$1095


Jamis Quest
Taiwanese steel with carbon fork.
Probably plush ride.  631 steel with carbon fork, good wheels and components and only 20 lbs.
Good compromise between weight, price, and ride quality.  Get this if you want steel/carbon and 105 at $1200.
http://www.jamisbikes.com/bikes/spec&geo/quest_spec01.html
http://www.henrysbikes.com/2000bikes/Road_Bike/Road_Bikes_Jamis.html
$1200


Giant OCR 1
Taiwanese aluminum compact frame.  Carbon fork.  New-fangled frame and fork geometry; weird-looking.  Weight unknown.
Get it if you only care about performance and you don't care if everyone looks at you funny.  Got great review on OLN.
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?lYear=2002§ion=8792&range=55&model=10471
$1100


Douglas Motive 105
Taiwanese aluminum with carbon fork.  Colorado Cyclist's private label 105 aluminum rig.  18.5 lbs.
Really light and probably semi-comfortable ride.  Probably OK, but I don't know anything about who actually fabricated it.
http://www.coloradocyclist.com/common/products/productdisplay2_v2.cfm?PRRFNBR=26799&CGRFNBR=273&CRPCGNBR=273&CI=1,223,273&TextMode=0
$1000


Lemond Alpe D' Huez
USA 853 steel.  Carbon fork.  It is the cheapest 105 Lemond.  Weight unknown.
Probably light and plush ride.  Probably good quality welds.  Probably highest quality bike in the lineup.
Get this if you want great steel/carbon 105 at $1300.
http://www.lemondbikes.com/bikes/bikes_alpe.html
$1300

thanks for that list Hellfinger.
I too was looking for a road bike after staying with my Brother in the Mountains for a week and saw how I missed riding. Had a Richard Sachs from the 70's which introduced me to the world of road racing.
I see the Fuji Roubaix going for under $700 in my size on Ebay, it looks to be a good value.
I was also looking at the lower end Specialized Allez. What do you think of them?
Luger, I think we need to add in the price of pedals to the bikes, depending on what you want.

I've sold both Fuji and Specialized.  Both are very fine brands.  

Specialized seems to have a bigger dealer network, but that really should matter.  Pick the one you like best.  If you can, try them both out first.

How about Colnago? I paid about the same for mine as the Specialized you list. From the others listed, I'd go Specialized or Bianchi over everything else, but Colnagos rock.

[img]http://www.digitalprozac.com/images/gallery/moviepics/peeweebiga/BIKE.JPG[/img]

luger,
Go Merckx.  Yeah I know- there's many better and lighter.  I have a custom (true) MX Leader that I bought in 96.  I was measured at Johann's in Bettembourg, Lux.  The bike is a beaut.  Goes down mountain passes like a rocket and very stiff.  I built up a set of CXP-30's 3X and it about beat me to death.  Sold the CXP-30's.  Anyway, Eddy is the man and makes many great rides.  

I worked in a bike shop in Germany for three years after I retired from the military.  We sold Can-of-nails the third year I was there.  On a CAAD 3 frame I could compress the down tube with hand pressure.  Would you haul ass down a mountain pass on that thing?  Not me.  I don't care how many pros ride them.  I went to their factory in the Netherlands for a Head Shock class and I'm very impressed with that product.  But scared to death of their thin tubing!!  [:D]  Good luck in you search!!

edited to add a "t" to the word not
edited again because I spelled The Cannibal's first name with "ie" instead of "y".

WOW hellfinger thanks that's the kind of analysis I was looking for.

On the Klein's and Colnago's I agree they do rock. If I could find either in my price range wouldn't hesitate to grab one.[b]edited to ad my MTB is a Klein and Gary is god.[/b]

A giant OCR1 for $1100? point me to it man there $1500 in my neck of the woods?

What's my beef with Mtb you ask?

Nothing that some mace couldn't handle or perhaps abstainance from caffeine.
I still plant to keep my stump jumper.

But road riding is my true favorite.
Few things are more enjoyable than a nice long ride on a hot summer day/night.

"Merckx" ??? never herd of em got a link?

Oh i suppose i should ad the bare minimum i want to go is shimano 105 on componants.

Why do you insist on an aluminum frame????They ride harsh!!!!Buy a Bianchi, in the right color of course......

Never heard of Eddy Merckx?  Oh my!  My heart!  Oh my! HAHA!!
Seriously- he has won more races than anyone  ever.  The man won races from the beginning of the season to the end of the season.  He didn't just train for the Tour de France or the Giro.  He won them both.  Not to take anything away from folks like Lance Armstrong.

Look here:  [url]www.gitabike.com[/url]
           [url]www.eddymerckx.be[/url]

He's also on heck of a good guy.  He went way out of his way to help Armstrong during his cancer tx and recovery period.

edit: had to fix the link
Good luck!

http://www.roadbikereview.com/Seatposts/Kalloy,Road,Seatpost/PRD_101353_4229crx.aspx#Reviews

Try the link.  There are plenty of retail locations at ~$1K.

Hellfinger out.

Check with your LBSs. They might have some of last years models left over also. This late in the year there probably won't be much to cloose from, but you never know.

Chris

Never heard of eddy merckx? Mon Dieu!
I remember Velo News was in newspaper form, when bicycling magazine was in black and white.
I loved those yrs of bicycle racing, G. lemond was just starting out when you heard bout him in Texas. Trek was still all handmade frames and nobody heard of a mountain bike yet.

Hey, some good info from the bike freaks here.

Might want to check out www.supergo.com They have some good value house brand stuff. Made in Taiwan, but good quality/warranty/service.

1. Country of Origin
Well equipped bike in your price range most likely coming from Taiwan. Don't let this scare you off. Very nice product is available. re: Giant. They are truly a giant. They are the biggest mfgr. in Taiwan and private label many other brands.

2. Aluminum Frames
Don't let what you've read here scare you off. Many poorly engineered aluminum bikes ARE rough riding. Early Cannondales were truly bricks and the myth continues. A well engineered aluminum bike can have excellent ride characteristics. Ride 'em for yourself and see.

3. Construction
It pains me to see "welding" and "Italy" in the same sentence. Everyone knows it should be "Italy" and "lugs".

4. Steel Construction
Hell - My experience/research say that steel is not that much (1-2) lbs. heavier than aluminum. I will ASSume you are talking about comparably priced bikes, right? Steel does (as you know) have the potential to be painfully light properly done. On a $1000 bike, I will respectfully agree that most steel bikes will be heavier, but aluminum won't be the highest tech in this price range.

As you see, we are in Portland. Rain all time. Makes steel less desirable than other materials for me.

5. Selecting
You need to ride these things. Unless you really know what you are looking for in terms of geometry and dimensions, buying without testing is a crapshoot. Bike that seem to read the same will feel VERY different.

6. Fitting
Crucial. Get your bike fitted by a pro OR Greg LeMond's excellent book. Get the right bar width, stem length, seat height and seat angle/postition. It will make all the difference.

7. My Vote?
I like that LeMond for $1300. Great angles. The 105 should last a while, then you can upgrade. Specialized are ALWAYS a good value.

Edited to Add: Don't GIVE UP on the mountain bike. MTB'ing is a great skills/strength builder for road biking. And a lot of fun too.


Good to see all the bike boyz coming out.

-Z

they don't call me "campy"bob for nuthin'! lol!

where to begin...folks that never heard of fast eddy...people wanting to ride recycled beer cans (aloooominum) frames...why, next thing you know, they'll specify wired on (clincher) tires and turn their noses up at sew-ups!!!

just my opinion, but only steel is real.

for my money, comfort and efficiency...throw away the aluminun, carbon fibre, kevlar and titanium tubes and get a hand brazed chrome moly, lugged frameset.

aluminum has all the ride qualities of a brick. sure, it's light and can be made stiff...and that thing will 'thud'like a lifeless heap of slag underneath you.

steel has a ride that can only be described as 'alive'...and a great steel frame will'disappear' beneath the rider. this is the closest a man can come to being 'one' with a machine, in my expirience.

try a pinarello...a masi...a bottechia...a derosa....a cinelli. more moolah, but worth it over the miles when you are providing the power source.

disclaimer: the above opinions were expressed by an old man that started racing in 1972 and total'd out more frames than most folks will ever own! heheh!

no matter what you end up with...enjoy the journey!

Oh Campy -

You sound like you have read one too many back issues of "Bicycling" with the whole "homeage to steel" thing.[:D]

On the other hand, you may have missed your true calling as a writer. The world can always use good copy editors.

-Z

p.s. you forgot Moser.[;)]

yeah...i'm 'old tech'! heheh!

ah...francesco moser! 51.151k in an hour! now we are talking about greatness!

it took me years to go clipless...and i'm STILL not sure about index shifting. yes, my bikes still sport a mix of friction and 9-speed index with the controls still on the downtubes.

"velo news" is more my speed. i haven't subscribed to the rodale rag for over 25 years.

to me, conditioning is more important than tube material. i just love hauling ass around some fred on his titanium litespeed or mono-sheel carbon fibre wonder with aero wheels (sporting clinchers, of course!).

i still thrill to the ride that a double-butted columbus tubed, lugged frame and a pair of vittora cx's mounted on 32 spokes laced 3-cross can deliver.

you can keep the composite wheels, 8 spoke radial aero's and "read the newspaper thru it" aluminum frames. i prefer to abuse my equipment while being rewarded with a lively ride and cost effective longevity (of course...that precludes wrapping a pinarello around a buick! lol!).

campy(the retro biking comes naturally to this old road warrior!)bob

I ride a steel Pegoretti.  Feels kind of like a BJ when I ride it.

ok ok I've yes I have sinned. Until now I have never herd of Eddy. [%|] [b] now I know his holy gospel[/b][0:)]

I talked about mercks with my dealer.
They all started grinning like Cheshire cats.
Like describing their first girlfriend. One even called them "Belgian Colnago's" hee hee. But they all said they ain't what they used to be.

But since no dealers around and nothing to test or ride no dice there. [>(]


why aluminum?  I duno perhaps its the cool
factor,  But hey I'm open to opinions.

Masi? I was looking at those. Their in my $1000 bracket.

Its starting to look like to get what I need ill have to eat fish and rice for a while.

I went from a Lemond Zurich which was made of Reynolds 853 steel (sweet ride [:)]) to a Colnago VIP which is Columbus aluminum (ballbuster [:(]). I wish I had stayed with steel. Aluminum is too harsh a ride for me. Though, I wouldn't mind an aluminum frame with cabon fiber seatstays.

[size=4]UPDATE[/SIZE=4]

I THINK I MAY HAVE FOUND IT.

I came across an orbea dealer today.
They had a loaded 2002 zonal demo bike for 1k.

I took it for a spin and I do agree aluminum feels a bit harsh. [b]nothing that a better seat and post cant fix IMO[/b]
But its quite spunky none the less.

Except for the rims its got me thinking. What ya think?

FRAME: orbea zonal (7005 alloy)

SHIFTERS/DERAILERS :  105

CRANKSET: bb altegra

WHEELSET: spinergy x-lite
(ill most likely swap these for something wider)

BRAKESET: ultegra

PEDALS: LOOK

FORK: time carbon.

Should I grab it or keep looking?

I checked roadbikereview.com and couldn't find any reviews of Orbea. I think they are fairly new to the US market. $1K sounds like a decent price for that frame and component group. The Sprinergy wheels alone should be worth a few hundred dollars.

[url]http://orbea-usa.com/site/itemdetails.cfm?ID=416&Catalog=39[/url]

orbea has been around for..like...forever. i remember them from the '70's...back when they were equipped with the zeus and triplex [spanish copy of campagnolo) componentry.

orbea was considered a "cheap" substitute for a proper italian machine. they have made some nice, high end framesets over the years.

keep shopping. the best deals are available right after christmas.

keep your eye on the prize...an columbus tubed italian machine equipped with campagnolo.

as to angles and handling. i like 'em fast (but not 'nervous') and stiff, yet resiliant. pinarello has been my choice for my last 5 framesets.

Oh ya?

Check this out for $1000.

http://www.supergo.com/itemdisplay.asp

(sorry, too computer lame to make link active)

Lemond Buenos Aires: 853 STEEL, good component mix, good angles, carbon fork.

No mail-order on this bike, but I'm sure one of our SoCal members would help you out.

This is a great example of a classic "Pro-Italian" bike. With the exception of no Campy parts, I'll bet even Bob would be OK with it.

Those aero wheels seem to show up on pretty much
everything nowadays. I don't have much experience with them, but they seem to hold up pretty well. People who ride them tell me they aren't that harsh, but I think they don't know any better.

BTW, if that aluminum bike felt a bit harsh after short spin, its only gonna get worse for long rides. While Ti saddle raddles can take some hi-freq. vibes out, a seat/post upgrade isn't gonna help much. I just know you weren't going to put a springy post on it.[:D]


-Z out

p.s. Dedici(?)

Have you checked out the classifieds at Velo News? I picked up a nice bike from a rider then turned coach so he really didn't need a bike. I even rode with the team, it was quite an experience. The comaraderie that comes with competition.
Check out Ebay. Just buy a frameset if a complete bike is too expensive. I had my dream bike, a Richard Sachs, Columbus SLX, all Campy Super Record and Mavic/tubulars.
I would want a nice frame before components.

I may have gone through the thread too fast but why hasn't anyone recommended a Trek? I've had two, albeit hybrids, and they were great for the price.

Trek?  They make a fine product.  Just ask Lance.  But they screwed me.  Here's the story.  I bought a 2300 with full Ulterga STI in 1991 for $1300 from a shop in Michigan.  I was home on leave from overseas.  This bike became my winter/rain bike.  Wore that Ulterga out before two years were over so installed a D/A groupo.  It had fenders, Night Sun and three flashing taillights.  And whatever else I needed to install for my daily commute to work of 40 miles- the shortest route.  In the fall 1995, a guy brings a 1994 2300 into the shop and shows me where the clearcoat had bubbled.  I recommended he send it back to Trek.  They replaced the frame.  Well since my bike was dirty most of the time (living in Germany near Luxembourg) I didn't notice that my frame was doing the same thing, but to a much lesser degree.  In the spring of 1996 the bubbles in mine got worse.  These were on the downtube where the carbon meets the aluminum lug.  About the same time the bottom bracket started making the most terrible creaks and cracks- sounded like the frame was coming apart.  I tried all the BB solutions, tightened cups, greased cups, etc.  Nothing worked.  I called the shop where I bought the frame.  They said mail it back which I did.  Couple of weeks later, the shop faxed me and said that Trek said the frame was OK and they would reclear coat it for $125.  WTF!!  The trek catalog says (in 1991) the frames have a 100% workmanship warranty, etc.  Now, I more than got my money out my frame.  I keep a log- I rode that thing over 21,000 miles.  But a warranty is a warranty.  The frame went on my Computrainer as I was afraid to ride it on the road.  After two years on the trainer the bottom bracket separated from the carbon seattube.  Granted, trainers are rough on frames.  Anyway, Trek didn't honor the warranty.  I'll never purchase anything related with Trek again.  
Just my experience; yours may vary.

damm you guys really got me thinking about aluminum Vs. steel.

Come to think going back a few moons my previous road ride was a generic chrome-molly but it rode like a dream.

Ok lets switch gears for a bit point me in the direction of a decent $1000 [b]steel[/b] bike.

bunghole I checked out the Zurich on roadbikereview and on lemonds site your right it does sound like a plush ride. What's the retail on something like that?

leaff, building from the frame up is still an option at this point. I pretty much plan on riding this thing until it dies.

[url]http://www.supergo.com/itemdisplay.asp[/url]

Out of inventory?

 Campy rules!

 Campy Bob, I have a set of Metamorphosis rims, never laced, a Vittoria CG, and a Vittoria CX, never glued or mounted. Interested?

Sorry for the bad link. Please try this. They ARE in stock.

http://www.supergo.com/itemdisplay.asp?compflag=0&parentid=20584&company=LeMond%2C+in%2Dstore+only&secid=7559&subid=7


Supergo says MSRP for Buenos Aires is $1500 and MSRP for the Zurich is $1900. They sell for $1000 and $1300 respectively.

Good deal, no?

-Z

If you want cool but cannot afford carbon, then maybe there's a titanium framed bike out there for around $1000?

Dunno - I'm just getting into road biking myself (since my orthopeadic surgeon says no more running!  [:(] )  

I bought a pretty cheap bike - but it still had aluminum frame, Shimano Sora components, triple crank - for about $450.  I figure I'll go cheap for my first one, and then buy something fancy when I know more about the sport (and whether or not it's something I want to go nuts about).  A friend of mine is a triathlete and drives a Kestrel that costs more than a good used car. {:)}

Hey Luger,

Do you want to buy new or used?

Buying used will get more value if you find the right seller anxious to buy himself an upgraded ride.

One thousand dollars gets a very entry level machine at a retail price. Also, if you buy in this price range and get a good year out of it before wanting to upgrade you can sell it for about $400. You can get a year old $2000 bike for $1000 by buying used (roughly) from the right person and probably enjoy it more.

The important questions are frame material, component level, and wheelset choice. At $1000 you can expect welded aluminum or steel, Shimano Sora or 105, and very basic OEM wheels.

I could find some deals for about $1500 on marked down Ultegra equipped aluminum/carbon seat stay new bikes for the new buyer that are good values. That's about the minimum price range, IMHO.

I rode Eddys for years. They had wonderful handling--they were perfect for motoring along in a pack at 25 mph and were great on descents, very hands-off stable but quick enough to do what you wanted. But I had two frames fail, both in the head tubes. Admittedly this was after many thousands of miles, some of it up and down fire roads, and I'm a clyesdale. The brazing looked dodgy, and on one the water bottle bosses were brazed on a bit off.

Got a Lemond Zurich after the second Eddy failed. It's a great bike. I think I paid about $1600 for it a year and a half ago. You're a couple months late, but you might be able to pick up last year's model for cheap. They generally start clearing out last year's models around September.

The Zurich is a wonderful bike. You could race it box stock at almost any level, and it's a great bike for doing fast fitness riding. Like the Eddy it's stable, but a touch less so due to a high BB and the perceived effect of lighter wheels than I had on the Eddys. I love the layout, with a long top tube and relaxed seat angles. I'm 6'4", so it works well for me.

The Buenos Aires has exactly the same geometry, and almost the same frame materials, but 105 components. I've seen them advertised for about $1300.

looking for new, In my neck of the woods used bike selection sucks year round.

[b]ANY objections with a 2002 Lemond Tourmalet double for $950 out the door?[/b]

It had components a little lower than id like to go (ie.) 105-tiagra. But what a nice ride.

Over the weekend I did some more comp shopping
took out the lemond and a trek 1200.

The 1200 was nice and comfee but that lemond was like driving Cadillac. Albeit a bit on the sluggish side IMO.