User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:07:25 AM EDT
$42,000,000.00 seems a bit spendy for someone who took a vow of poverty.
http://www.catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=52832 ROME, ITALY (Catholic Online) - Bishop Franz-Peter Tebartz-van Elst, 53, is a relatively young and extravagant bishop, so extravagant in fact, he has been dubbed "the bishop of bling." Public outcry over his expenditures brought him to Pope Francis' attention. Pope Francis has called for the Church to be poor, for the poor. Bishop Tebartz-van Elst's habits appear contrary to this call to action. Tebartz-van Elst was appointed in 2008 by Pope Benedict. As Bishop of Limburg, Tebartz-van Elst authorized €31 million in spending on a new residence and community center. He reportedly dropped €15,000 ($20,000) on his bathtub alone.  another sad chapter for the catholic church! |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:08:48 AM EDT
[#1]
He is just taking a page from the Protestant megachurch playbook.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:09:39 AM EDT
[#2]
In before Friar Tuck pushes him out a tower window.
(Yes, I know that was not the Catholic Church.) |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:10:18 AM EDT
[#3]
I thought this was going to be about Benny Hinn or Paul Crouch.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:12:20 AM EDT
[#4]
Just another affirmation that this man was correct 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:12:30 AM EDT
[#5]
I'm glad we don't see this kind of human weakness in our secular leaders.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:13:18 AM EDT
[#6]
Guess that's what happens when you let F-A-B-U-L-O-U-S people with a flair for fashion be bishops.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:13:26 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Martin-Luther-1532.jpg Just another affirmation that this man was correct Reformation FTW. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:14:16 AM EDT
[#8]
He's just unconventional. Don't judge him.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:17:57 AM EDT
[#9]
Pope Francis seems like a humble man of simple tastes. Hopefully he'll have the stones to send this bishop packing. How any clergy could use monies donated to the church by their flock for a $20K bathtub is beyond me. Not a man of God. Just a man of empty, hollow nothing.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:19:37 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pope Francis seems like a humble man of simple tastes. Hopefully he'll have the stones to send this bishop packing. How any clergy could use monies donated to the church by their flock for a $20K bathtub is beyond me. Not a man of God. Just a man of empty, hollow nothing. Pope Francis yanked him this morning, temporarily while a commission investigates. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:20:14 AM EDT
[#11]
Small world. Maybe the French Justice System will go after the Catholic Church next?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:20:39 AM EDT
[#12]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:20:51 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reformation FTW. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Martin-Luther-1532.jpg Just another affirmation that this man was correct Reformation FTW. Avarice is not peculiar to Catholics alone. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:24:21 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Martin-Luther-1532.jpg Just another affirmation that this man was correct Does that include his celebrated work On the Jews and Their Lies? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:24:28 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He's just unconventional. Don't judge him. The Reformers, Protestants are just as bad as far as this kind of thing is concerned I can't see the Pope letting this go (n/m, just saw the suspension note) "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles? And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:26:52 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pope Francis yanked him this morning, temporarily while a commission investigates. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Pope Francis seems like a humble man of simple tastes. Hopefully he'll have the stones to send this bishop packing. How any clergy could use monies donated to the church by their flock for a $20K bathtub is beyond me. Not a man of God. Just a man of empty, hollow nothing. Pope Francis yanked him this morning, temporarily while a commission investigates. Hope they stick to it. My wife is Catholic and I have respect for some tenants of Catholicism. But one thing that I haven't been able to accept is the Catholic church's complete abdication of responsibility for enabling molesting priests and just sending the problem downstream. That's always angered me and never made ANY sense. You find out one of your clergy has been having inappropriate relationships with ANY members of their flocks (of ANY age), you terminate their relationship with the church (and turn your information over to law enforcement if illegal activities were involved). The church has a HUGE black eye over that and has a LOT of things to set right. You don't set things right by allowing an idiot like this particular priest to skate on his abuse of power. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:27:08 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No mention of his suspension by the Pope? Vatican suspends 'bishop of bling' Tebartz-van ElstStop it. You're interrupting the smug denigration. You have to wait until at least page 3 to post stuff like that so that nobody sees it or reads it and we can have a nice, long anti-Catholic thread. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:27:31 AM EDT
[#18]
Gotta impress the boys.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:28:21 AM EDT
[#19]
One of the largest houses I ever built was for a Preacher.
He downsized to 8000+ sq ft. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:28:32 AM EDT
[#20]
Something about that guy just doesn't look right.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:30:24 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Martin-Luther-1532.jpg Just another affirmation that this man was correct Come again?  Isn't there something in the Bible about pride and falls? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:31:09 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Avarice is not peculiar to Catholics alone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Martin-Luther-1532.jpg Just another affirmation that this man was correct Reformation FTW. Avarice is not peculiar to Catholics alone. Forget it. They're on a roll... 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:31:17 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pope Francis seems like a humble man of simple tastes. Hopefully he'll have the stones to send this bishop packing. How any clergy could use monies donated to the church by their flock for a $20K bathtub is beyond me. Not a man of God. Just a man of empty, hollow nothing. This. I have no problem with a Pastor or member of Clergy living a decent lifestyle but living like a rock star is an insult. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:32:39 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One of the largest houses I ever built was for a Preacher. He downsized to 8000+ sq ft. If his mansion was paid-for by monies donated by church members, that's a travesty. NO clergy on the church dole should be living in extravagance. I don't even know how they can look in the mirror and convince themselves that money donated by church members (some of whom are poorer than they) is okay to use for opulent personal buildings and furnishings. Presentable is one thing. Palatial is another entirely. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:34:48 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hope they stick to it. My wife is Catholic and I have respect for some tenants of Catholicism. But one thing that I haven't been able to accept is the Catholic church's complete abdication of responsibility for enabling molesting priests and just sending the problem downstream. That's always angered me and never made ANY sense. You find out one of your clergy has been having inappropriate relationships with ANY members of their flocks (of ANY age), you terminate their relationship with the church (and turn your information over to law enforcement if illegal activities were involved). The church has a HUGE black eye over that and has a LOT of things to set right. You don't set things right by allowing an idiot like this particular priest to skate on his abuse of power. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Pope Francis seems like a humble man of simple tastes. Hopefully he'll have the stones to send this bishop packing. How any clergy could use monies donated to the church by their flock for a $20K bathtub is beyond me. Not a man of God. Just a man of empty, hollow nothing. Pope Francis yanked him this morning, temporarily while a commission investigates. Hope they stick to it. My wife is Catholic and I have respect for some tenants of Catholicism. But one thing that I haven't been able to accept is the Catholic church's complete abdication of responsibility for enabling molesting priests and just sending the problem downstream. That's always angered me and never made ANY sense. You find out one of your clergy has been having inappropriate relationships with ANY members of their flocks (of ANY age), you terminate their relationship with the church (and turn your information over to law enforcement if illegal activities were involved). The church has a HUGE black eye over that and has a LOT of things to set right. You don't set things right by allowing an idiot like this particular priest to skate on his abuse of power. Subsidiarity....it's not shifting blame, the higher ups arent in charge of that. The Catholic Church allows those that are closest to people make command decisions. I believe that Pope John Paul II took responsibility even though it wasn't because of him. Still a terrible thing that occured either way. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:35:19 AM EDT
[#26]
This guy has made some disgraceful decisions. I'm glad the Pope made the right decision to yank him.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:36:26 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryYeah the Pope drives a pos 84 Renault that he was given http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/pope-francis-plans-drive-car-vatican-city-article-1.1453001 |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:36:56 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Martin-Luther-1532.jpg Just another affirmation that this man was correct yup. The art, land and treasure that the RCC has amassed would go a LONG way to ending world hunger, poverty, etc. for the people they claim to serve. Not a bash on doctrine (but we can do that if you want).
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:37:28 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reformation FTW. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Martin-Luther-1532.jpg Just another affirmation that this man was correct Reformation FTW. and just in time, 4 more years till the 500th anniversary! |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:37:53 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Forget it. They're on a roll... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Martin-Luther-1532.jpg Just another affirmation that this man was correct Reformation FTW. Avarice is not peculiar to Catholics alone. Forget it. They're on a roll... Easy fellas. Joel Osteen and his ilk are as much at odds with Luther as anyone else. Just poking a bit. ETA BTW, My Mother and Grandmother are Catholic, and I went to Catholic school for a bit in my elementary years...no hate going on here. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:38:23 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Forget it. They're on a roll... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Martin-Luther-1532.jpg Just another affirmation that this man was correct Reformation FTW. Avarice is not peculiar to Catholics alone. Forget it. They're on a roll... Who is this "they" that you refer to? I don't see any Catholic-bashing in particular in this thread. I think that everyone here is more than well aware that abuse of power and finances has gone on in other denominations as well. My personal wish is to see the Pope come down HARD on this guy, and any other abusers in Catholic clergy. I don't wish to see the religion dwindle to nothingness because of abuses of its members. I wish to see the abusers punished and dealt with so the church can clean-up its reputation. And I'm not even a member! |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:40:51 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yup. The art, land and treasure that the RCC has amassed would go a LONG way to ending world hunger, poverty, etc. for the people they claim to serve. Not a bash on doctrine (but we can do that if you want). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Martin-Luther-1532.jpg Just another affirmation that this man was correct yup. The art, land and treasure that the RCC has amassed would go a LONG way to ending world hunger, poverty, etc. for the people they claim to serve. Not a bash on doctrine (but we can do that if you want). So you're saying we should sell that expensive oil and give it to the poor? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:41:35 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Subsidiarity....it's not shifting blame, the higher ups arent in charge of that. The Catholic Church allows those that are closest to people make command decisions. I believe that Pope John Paul II took responsibility even though it wasn't because of him. Still a terrible thing that occured either way. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Pope Francis seems like a humble man of simple tastes. Hopefully he'll have the stones to send this bishop packing. How any clergy could use monies donated to the church by their flock for a $20K bathtub is beyond me. Not a man of God. Just a man of empty, hollow nothing. Pope Francis yanked him this morning, temporarily while a commission investigates. Hope they stick to it. My wife is Catholic and I have respect for some tenants of Catholicism. But one thing that I haven't been able to accept is the Catholic church's complete abdication of responsibility for enabling molesting priests and just sending the problem downstream. That's always angered me and never made ANY sense. You find out one of your clergy has been having inappropriate relationships with ANY members of their flocks (of ANY age), you terminate their relationship with the church (and turn your information over to law enforcement if illegal activities were involved). The church has a HUGE black eye over that and has a LOT of things to set right. You don't set things right by allowing an idiot like this particular priest to skate on his abuse of power. Subsidiarity....it's not shifting blame, the higher ups arent in charge of that. The Catholic Church allows those that are closest to people make command decisions. I believe that Pope John Paul II took responsibility even though it wasn't because of him. Still a terrible thing that occured either way. The Pope is the "CEO" of the Catholic church. The buck ultimately stops with him. When his "Vice Presidents" (the Bishops) didn't deal with the issue of abusive priests correctly, he should have issued mandates and removed Bishops who failed to act prudently. This is how positions of power and responsibility are supposed to work. NOT with guys shrugging their shoulders and claiming they didn't know anything about what was going-on. Someone's got to own mistakes/wrongdoings and take responsibility for them. I've tried to teach my children that since they were babies. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:41:55 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If his mansion was paid-for by monies donated by church members, that's a travesty. NO clergy on the church dole should be living in extravagance. I don't even know how they can look in the mirror and convince themselves that money donated by church members (some of whom are poorer than they) is okay to use for opulent personal buildings and furnishings. Presentable is one thing. Palatial is another entirely. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
One of the largest houses I ever built was for a Preacher. He downsized to 8000+ sq ft. If his mansion was paid-for by monies donated by church members, that's a travesty. NO clergy on the church dole should be living in extravagance. I don't even know how they can look in the mirror and convince themselves that money donated by church members (some of whom are poorer than they) is okay to use for opulent personal buildings and furnishings. Presentable is one thing. Palatial is another entirely. His old house was in a subdivision in Atlanta known as where the athletes lived, etc. The back yard was a 3 tiered pool with mirror image curved marble staircases surrounded by Versailles quality gardens. Overlooked one of the greens on the Golf Course. I was only 25-26 back then. He drove me nuts telling me how he and his "flock" would have meetings and sit around drinking coffee. He said it so much it became a case of "methinks he doth protest too much". I finally had had enough and told him: "Yessir, I get it. You don't drink alcohol. I am Catholic. I do". That was the end of it.
After adding the elevator (the house was CO'd when they signed the contract) and finishing out the double basement (yes, it had 20' walls) I think our contract was nearing 4M. He had been a "preacher" his whole life so I am assuming the money came from his members. Of course, maybe he got lucky in the stock market. Who knows. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:42:13 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Avarice is not peculiar to Catholics alone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Martin-Luther-1532.jpg Just another affirmation that this man was correct Reformation FTW. Avarice is not peculiar to Catholics alone. Of course it isn't. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:50:09 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
His old house was in a subdivision in Atlanta known as where the athletes lived, etc. The back yard was a 3 tiered pool with mirror image curved marble staircases surrounded by Versailles quality gardens. Overlooked one of the greens on the Golf Course. I was only 25-26 back then. He drove me nuts telling me how he and his "flock" would have meetings and sit around drinking coffee. He said it so much it became a case of "methinks he doth protest too much". I finally had had enough and told him: "Yessir, I get it. You don't drink alcohol. I am Catholic. I do". That was the end of it.
After adding the elevator (the house was CO'd when they signed the contract) and finishing out the double basement (yes, it had 20' walls) I think our contract was nearing 4M. He had been a "preacher" his whole life so I am assuming the money came from his members. Of course, maybe he got lucky in the stock market. Who knows. As you can probably see from my posts in this thread, I'm not a fan of professional clergy who live high on the hog. That's a slap in the face to all that they're supposed to represent to their flock. It's NO better than if they hired prostitutes, did illicit drugs, etc. It is quite simply, "conduct unbecoming of an officer (of God)". If their better-than-average lifestyle is one financed by business decisions and entities COMPLETELY outside of the church, then that's their option (though an obviously extravagant lifestyle may still be a stumbling block to their flock's acceptance of their leadership and counterproductive to the example they're trying to set for those entrusted to their care). |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:52:18 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Come again? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Joel_Osteen_at_Lakewood_Church.JPG/320px-Joel_Osteen_at_Lakewood_Church.JPG Isn't there something in the Bible about pride and falls? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Martin-Luther-1532.jpg Just another affirmation that this man was correct Come again? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Joel_Osteen_at_Lakewood_Church.JPG/320px-Joel_Osteen_at_Lakewood_Church.JPG Isn't there something in the Bible about pride and falls? Joelstein is a Christian? News to me. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:54:15 AM EDT
[#38]
There is NO way that man is heterosexual.
I think he's making a mockery of the church in spite but it shows how naive and screwed up the church is to have kept him around and appointed him...unless he simply just knows too much. The church knows a large number of their priests are gay. They know many flaunt it. They just can't admit it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:54:57 AM EDT
[#39]
If I were pope I would transfer him to a small diocese in Liberia or Sierra Leone. That will help teach him what the church is really about.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:57:04 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I were pope I would transfer him to a small diocese in Liberia or Sierra Leone. That will help teach him what the church is really about. I think that a vain man like this would find a way to abuse his power there and become more or less the local warlord. Someone this detached from the realities of life and of his calling isn't likely to pickup the wake-up call when the phone rings.... 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 5:57:31 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is NO way that man is heterosexual. I think he's making a mockery of the church in spite but it shows how naive and screwed up the church is to have kept him around and appointed him...unless he simply just knows too much. The church knows a large number of their priests are gay. They know many flaunt it. They just can't admit it. I've wondered about this as well. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:00:03 AM EDT
[#42]
In before Jesus shows up and flips some tables over.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:01:40 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Avarice is not peculiar to Catholics alone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Martin-Luther-1532.jpg Just another affirmation that this man was correct Reformation FTW. Avarice is not peculiar to Catholics alone. This. Nor does the Church state its leadership is immune to sin. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:02:53 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No mention of his suspension by the Pope? Vatican suspends 'bishop of bling' Tebartz-van ElstViewing religions objectively, one must admire the Catholic Christians' leadership who have shown through the years that their Church knows to drive popularity when it can but react to it when it must. Any church's religion's survival depends on its popularity with the people, not its presentation of the gods. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:03:46 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In before Jesus shows up and flips some tables over. EXACTLY the image stuck in my mind as I've read and posted in this thread. There's NO way Christ would/could look the other way or sanction such abuse of power and finances in the church. These things only serve to alienate people from religion and marginalize it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:06:52 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In before Jesus shows up and flips some tables over. Jesus didn't just flip tables over. He drove them out, with a whip. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:09:51 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
EXACTLY the image stuck in my mind as I've read and posted in this thread. There's NO way Christ would/could look the other way or sanction such abuse of power and finances in the church. These things only serve to alienate people from religion and marginalize it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In before Jesus shows up and flips some tables over. EXACTLY the image stuck in my mind as I've read and posted in this thread. There's NO way Christ would/could look the other way or sanction such abuse of power and finances in the church. These things only serve to alienate people from religion and marginalize it. One of the churches I visited lately, (Calvary Chapel) the pastor drives an old beater that was given to him by a church member. There isn't even an official passing of the plate for money. There are boxes in the lobby if one wants to support the church. Seems like that is more what Jesus would want....... |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:11:56 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One of the churches I visited lately, (Calvary Chapel) the pastor drives an old beater that was given to him by a church member. There isn't even an official passing of the plate for money. There are boxes in the lobby if one wants to support the church. Seems like that is more what Jesus would want....... Yup... couldn't agree more. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:13:27 AM EDT
[#49]
I've about reached the point of just going off in the woods to pray as the Catholic Church continues to disgust me.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2013 6:13:36 AM EDT
[#50]
For the record, not all priests take a vow of poverty. That said, this guy is a clown.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
