From [i]Ha'aretz[/i] of today:

[url]http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=198223&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0[/url]

Notice the picture. To me is nothing new. Maybe for some of you yes.

Just to remark the fact that Israel is already in the frontline of the future Gulf War II and Pals were not dancing for nothing in the 9-11...

I remind, also, that there is a community of Pals that are living in Iraq...

[b]'YOUR' Israelis killed any more American sailors lately ??[/b]

Paolo, I know Italy must be a big fan of Israel.  So why don't you and your home-boys  take care of Iraq ??

I guess the Palestinians have the 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' mentality.  Burn 'em all.

Subsailor, why don't you go to help your Palestinians friend against the "evil" Israelis?
I guess that they will be highly interested in democracy, human rights and American Constitution... ah yes... can you aske them politely to stop burning american flags?

Thanks...

[b]Not responsive to my post.[/b]

Very responsive for anyone has enough brain and will to understand... and btw, was on the same tune of your post...

No doubt you would like to see American blood spilled.  

[b]Tell me Paolo, has Italy surrendered to anyone lately ??  Got to believe you and your folks still retain the talent.[/b]

Good grief, [b]subsailor[/b], why can't you just ignore the thread and move on?

I can just as easily say to you:

[b]Have 'YOUR' Palestinian friends killed any more American students lately?[/b]

Now, is [u]that[/u] anything we wish to discuss this morning? I'm all wrung out from the last few days with this subject that leads nowhere, but nowhere!

I doubt that Israel has one solid friend left in all of Europe any longer.

But, then again, do we have any friends left in Europe?

And the Ha'aretz article is correct in every respect, if the US is ever gonna hit Iraq, the time is [b]now[/b], and not later!

I can't imagine what all this fiddle-faddle is about!

We should be harassing them [u]daily[/u] with air strikes inside the 'no fly' zones, until we assemble a large enough force to go in and clean the rat's nest out!

This might prevent unnecessary loss of American lives, later!

Oh, and by the way, [b]subsailor[/b], you may want to brace yourself for this - when the US does attack Iraq, which it will, there will be nothing but support for the Iraqis among the folks on the West Bank and in Gaza.

Lots of dancing and ululating in the streets, as we have all come to know and despise.

The only support and prayers for US soldiers, sailors and airmen, in the area, will be coming from.....

Eric The(WhyDon'tYouTellUs!)Hun[>]:)]

legs,
you should have read my posts after 9/11 when I opined the Arabians would be behind the terrorists attacks.  If anything the responses were worse than when I condemn Israel.

I condemn all that kill Americans.  I guess what bothers me most about the actions of Israel as those actions were taken by an alleged ally.

[b]The only viable support for US troops will come from the US.[/b]

Next question.

[b]Israel has zero friends and exactly one ally in the worlds' community of nations.  That ally is the U.S.[/b]

Countries do not have friends.  Countries have alliances.  Smart countries form strategic alliances.

legs, THANKS for the attempt.

Gotta run now and get my toothers sharpened !

Post from 5subslr5 -

If you are referring to men and material, then you are correct, but, then, would [u]you[/u] really want military assistance from Israel?

I was referring to moral support, prayers, good will, intelligence sharing.

Israel has never asked for American troops to fight its battles. Although Israeli forces were prepared to participate in the Gulf War, they did not because the United States asked them not to. [b]Even after the provocation of 39 Scud missile attacks, Israel assented to U.S. appeals not to respond.[/b]

Israel was never expected to play a major role in hostilities in the Gulf. American officials knew the Arabs would not allow Israel to help defend them; they also knew U.S. troops would have to intervene because the Gulf states could not protect themselves.

[b]Israel's posture reflected a deliberate political decision in response to American requests.[/b] Nevertheless, it [u]did[/u] aid the United States' successful campaign to roll back Iraq's aggression. For example:

· The IDF was the sole military force in the region that could successfully challenge the Iraqi army. That fact, which Saddam Hussein understood, was a deterrent to further Iraqi aggression.

· By warning that it would take military measures if any Iraqi troops entered Jordan, Israel, in effect, guaranteed its neighbor's territorial integrity against Iraqi aggression.

· The United States benefited from the use of Israeli-made Have Nap air-launched missiles on its B­52 bombers. The Navy, meanwhile, used Israeli Pioneer pilotless drones for reconnaissance in the Gulf.

· Israel provided mine plows that were used to clear paths for allied forces through Iraqi minefields.

· Mobile bridges flown directly from Israel to Saudi Arabia were employed by the U.S. Marine Corps.

· Israeli recommendations, based upon system performance observations, led to several software changes that made the Patriot a more capable missile defense system.

· Israel Aircraft Industries developed conformal fuel tanks that enhanced the range of F­15 aircraft. These were used in the Gulf.

· General Dynamics, a U.S. military contractor, implemented a variety of Israeli modifications to improve the worldwide F­16 aircraft fleet, including structural enhancements, software changes, increased capability landing gear, radio improvements and avionic modifications.

· An Israeli-produced targeting system was used to increase the Cobra helicopter's night-fighting capabilities.

· Israel manufactured the canister for the highly successful Tomahawk missile.

· Night-vision goggles used by U.S. forces were supplied by Israel.

· A low-altitude warning system produced and developed in Israel was utilized on Blackhawk helicopters.

· Israel provided other equipment to U.S. forces including flack vests, gas masks and sandbags.

· Israel offered the United States the use of military and hospital facilities. U.S. ships utilized Haifa port shipyard maintenance and support on their way to the Gulf.

· Israel destroyed Iraq's nuclear reactor in 1981. Consequently, U.S. troops did not face a nuclear-armed Iraq.

· Even in its low-profile mode, Israeli cooperation was extremely valuable: Israel's military intelligence had focused on Iraq much more carefully over the years than had the U.S. intelligence community. Thus, the Israelis were able to provide Washington with detailed tactical intelligence on Iraqi military activities. [u]Defense Secretary Dick Cheney said, for example, that the U.S. utilized Israeli information about western Iraq in its search for Scud missile launchers[/u].

Now, do not give [u]me[/u] credit for listing all of these accomplishments, they are from some other source that I used in a past post I made and saved to My Documents.

[b]But they are absolutely rock solid![/b]

So don't count little old Israel out, [b]subdude[/b]!

Eric The(TheyAreStillOurDavidInTheMiddleEast)Hun[>]:)]

I new here...but it's already clear 5subslr5 only knows 1 note.

What in-depth knowledge.

Amazing.

Stevan, if you 'amaze' this easily doubt you have much to offer.

[b]By the way, WELCOME to AR15.com.[/b]

[b]What would the US do without Israel !![/b]

Let's see............we could have coherent strategic alliances in the middle east, we would be roughly $5.3 Billion dollars richer.........

No, Israelis didn't kill any other american sailor since then. Arabs YES.



Italy is not a big fan of Israel at all. I am a big fan of Israel. So what?



Please show me where I posted it. Or shut up.



I don't understand this attitude of attacking me or my country, and how could be related to this topic. I suggest to you to stop it, it worth the dignity of your role as moderator.
You insulted right now all my brigade comrades that died instead of surrender in North Africa desert, paratroops that afforded British tanks pratically with bare hands and died by thousands!!! Shame on you, subsailor!!!

I support USA in its action of War against Terror, I don't want to see anymore scenes like in 9-11, and I still don't understand how insulting my country is connected to your role of moderator in this forum!

Post from 5subslr5 -

[b]With whom, praytell?[/b] Just who is it that is [u]not[/u] our ally simply because of our relationship with Israel?

Betcha' can't even name one! [:D]

Always the money angle, eh? Are you certain that you are [u]not[/u] the least bit Jewish, eh, [b]subdude[/b]?

You sure seem to act at times like some Jewish pawnbrokers that I know and represent! [:D]

Eric The(OyVey!)Hun[>]:)]

[b]How to you propose the United States remove the present regime in Iraq without spilling American blood ??[/b]

BTW Eric... did you get my email?

[b]Paolo,
why don't you tell us 'WHY' Italy is not a big fan of Israel ??[/b]

If I remember well:

1) An Iraqi official was discovered (unfortunately AFTER) to be in contact with 9-11 terrorists.

2)The decision to overthrow Saddam Hussein was taken by President G.W. Bush.

So, put the question to your President: why he wants to spill american blood?

Eric,
you pretty well know views on organized religion but over the years I've looked over the various offerings.  If I had to choose an organized religion on this day that religion would be Jewish.

My 'picks' are with a country - Israel and not with a people - Jews.

Oh, the modifier was "coherent".

[b]Dismissed.[/b]  Now run along and play in the street - stand very still and wait for a big truckie.

Allow me!

Because, [b]subsailor[/b], Italy and the rest of Europe think precisely as you think!

And I mean [u]precisely[/u]!

Israel is too much of a burden, too much of a source of tension, too much of a reminder to them of past troubles, and too much of a source of further problems with their Middle Eastern Arab chums, for Europeans to be big fans!

Just as [u]you[/u] think!

Eric The(AmIWrong?)Hun[>]:)]

[b]Va fanculo![/b]

Nope, cause I don't have that AOL address any longer.

Use this one: [email protected]  or this one: [email protected]

Sorry, my friend!

Eric The(AOL-less)Hun[>]:)]

guess the lil feller can't speak for himself.

(Mostly I agree with your analysis.)

Why? Because politicians and liberal media are criticizing Israel for their armed REACTION to terror attacks, evindencing each time when Pals are killed and minimizing when Israelis are killed.

THE SAME politicians and media, that for the SAME reasons criticized and are still criticizing USA for its military response to 9-11, for bombing Afghanistan, for the intention of USA to bring war to Iraq (and maybe Saudi Arabia and Syria).

The SAME politician and media that openly or implicitly are kissing arab business men and arab politicians, the same people that are saying that Europe should broke ties with USA...

The same people that set up an embargo to Israel, even for ammo for olympic shooting, but are willing to give money for antisemitic books to "educate" palestinians children...

The SAME people I didn't vote last election and I am not willing to vote the next...

Enough?

He just wants to ask you about the mod thingy......

Post from 5subslr5 -

Nope, I just jumped in, in the interests of comity.

And it sorta reminded me of a little scene....

On October 25, 1962, at the height of the Cuban Missile Crisis, US Ambassador to the UN, Adlai Stevenson, asked Soviet Ambassador Zorin about the missiles in Cuba:

"Do you, Ambassador Zorin, deny that the U.S.S.R. has placed and is placing medium- and intermediate-range missiles and sites in Cuba?... [b]Don't wait for the translation! Yes or no?"[/b]

Zorin responded, "I am not in an American courtroom, sir, and I do not wish to answer a question put to me in the manner in which a prosecutor does-" Then Stevenson interrupted and said, "You are in the courtroom of world opinion right now, and you can answer yes or no. You have denied that they exist, and I want to know whether I have understood you correctly.... [b]I am prepared to wait for my answer until hell freezes over, if that's your decision.[/b] And I am also prepared to present the evidence in this room."

Zorin did not answer, so Stevenson proceeded to show the reconnaissance photographs to a stunned audience.

It was, in fact, a moment that Mr. Stevenson can rightly be proud of...if he just wasn't being a stooge for the Kennedy brothers!

Eric The(AlwaysHistorical)Hun[>]:)]

Post from 5subslr5 -

[u]My[/u] mod thingy or [u]your[/u] mod thingy? [:D]

I can't imagine!

Eric The(Gentlemen,RememberYourselves!)Hun[>]:)]

mine

I don't get it.....

The guy posts that the Pals are now "oficially" supproting Iraq. Not that I didn't think for a moment that there were ties there, but what does that have to do with Israel? Maybe it was a thinly vailed support for Israel (and maybe not, either), but even if it was, does anyone really think that the Pals are not itching for more American blood? Does anyone really think that the Israelies are?

All you have is one incident that happened 30 years ago that has never been proven to be intentional ("officially", OK?). In the time since then, literally thousands of Americans have been killed, directly or indirectly, by Arabs. There's no doubt who would rather be killing Americans. Go back another 20 years and you have a MUCH larger amout of Americans being killed by two countries we support and defend today. Where's the outrage toward theses countries? Hell, we even support those same Arab states that fund the very terrorists that kill Americans on a regular basis. Let's talk about how much money we'd save if we stopped supporting Arab states and bought our oil from the Russians.

And as far as who is a fan of who is concerned... Why is it that the EU isn't a big fan of the US these days, even though we saved them from domination no less than three times this century?

As far as you sig line goes, I feel that we need to get something out into the open. I am an [b]American[/b] and her interests come first to me. However, all of America's interests do not occur within her borders. As such, her foriegn interests must be protected so that those who live within her borders are able to maintain their current standards of living and freedom. That cannot be accomplished without allies abroad. Allies like Israel who provide critical intelligence about the region, military hardware, and, most importantly, stability in the region. The Arabs, for the most part, hate each other. The only hting that keeps that region stable is their greater hatred for Israel and their inability to do anything about it militarilly.

Kennedy 'stool' yes - but a helluva performance for a conservative and a miraculous (dare I say "Divinely Guided" ?) performance for a limp-dick liberal like Stevenson !!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the post PaoloAR15.

Unfortunately, this thread has become another one hijacked by the ETH / Subsailor "Jews vs. Arabs" dance 'o death.

The only thing you can do is just watch from the sidelines and shake your head.

And you wonder why they have such large post counts.

POST ON YOU CRAZY DIAMONDS!

Gee - this has been productive.

let's do it again sometime.

Post from MIerinMD -

Naw, we've stopped for now! But it was on point with the thread that [b]PaoloAR15[/b] posted, was it not?

I haven't heard him complain about the thread being hi-jacked or anything! [:D]

The '[u]only[/u]' thing you can do?

No. You can always post a complaint about it!

You know, like you just did!

You have other options as well.

Eric The(Sensible)Hun[>]:)]

Man, we finally got some rain up here in Tulsa![:D]

Oh no, you ain't going to pull me into this, you nut.  This will be my last post in this thread. [;)]



I thought it was about the Palestinians supporting Saddam.



Maybe he's just being nice.  Italians are very courteous people! [:D]



I wasn't complaining.  You're very entertaining.  I was just informing him on what to expect.

Now, get back to posting you silly goose. The magic "20000" awaits you.

My brother, Clyde, lived in Tulsa for about five years, while he was a station manager for Federal Express there.

That was, let's see, back around 1980-1985, then he moved to Amarillo, then to Little Rock!

He's now back here near Dallas.

Reckon he got some rain day 'fore yesterday?

Eric The(I'llCallHim,HoldOn!)Hun[>]:)]

Vaffanculo to you too...

[:D]

I guess you didn't like the EVIDENCE of my words... [:D]

Some of you guys just don’t get it.... The only people in the Middle East who even like us are the Israelis.  They are our only ally in the region and that’s how it is.  I find it retarded that people keep thinking that the "evil devil nation"(aka United States) and________(fill in with any worthless Arab country) will EVER be allies.  Personally I just love how Israel keeps kicking the crap out of those turds.  They have shown restraint for too long...Time to pay the piper.

Got a little rain over to Oak City too !

ETH wrote:  

Well, does anyone really give a rats anus?  How many BILLION have we poured into Europe to be ignored now?  We saved their ass - twice.  We defended their pansy asses from the Bear and this is the thanks we get?  Our mistake was spending $.01 to rebuild the place.  We fought a war a couple hundred years ago to get out from under these idiots.  Why suck up to them now?

I hate the idea of a "coalition".  We did it nearly alone the last time except for the Brits.  We don't need any help that we have to ask for.  Let's roll!