Heard on the radio yesterday that the National Republican Party dropped their challenge to the Libertarian petitions.  Therefore, the Libertarian Party will have candidates on the ballot for the state-wide elections in November.  

I'm sure Blagoyevich (Dem) is thrilled about this, since the Libertarians will no doubt field a gubernatorial candidate who will take some precious votes away from Jim Ryan, thereby allowing a committed gun-grabber to take the governor's mansion.  Yippee.  Time to move to Indiana.  

Personally I'm glad they made it on the ballot. Sounds to me that the Republican Party needs to make some changes to win back those Libertarian votes. I look at the situation from two different perspectives.

The first being that 3rd parties are needed because the two main parties do not represent everyone.

The second being that a third party can have a major influence on one of the two major parties, bringing them in line with their own views.

Look at what happened to the Democratic Party. There's a Socialist party, but some how the Socialist Party influenced the Democrats so much, they became Socialist.

I'm hoping for one of two things. Either the Libertarian Party becomes the major contender against the Democratic Party, forcing the Republican Party down to the the 3rd Party status, or even better, the Republicans become Libertarians like the Democrats became socialist.

I'm in favor of the Republicans becoming Libertarians because it seems to have worked so well for the socialist forcing the democrats to become socialist. Look at Ron Paul from TX. He's Republican only in name.

It's just going to take some time before the Republicans wake up and say, "If we want their votes, we're going to have to make some changes to our platform."

Something has to change. I'd rather see it take place at the ballot box instead of the ammo box.

Oh yeah, the Libertarian Party is the 3rd largest party in the U.S., 1st & 2nd being Republicans and Democrats of course. No other minor party comes close to having as many elected officials as the Libertarian Party.

So for those that say, "The Libertarians need to start out small and work their way up," it's already happening. However, they still run for the higher offices because it not only gets attention drawn towards the Libertarian Party, but to the lesser candidates.

You mean the one who made no attempt to pass any gun laws, and signed the revised SNA into law that made fanny pack CCW legal, and carry in a vehicle legal again?  

Bag-my-boy-a-bitch is a thousand times worse.  Period.  Jim Ryan is hardly our friend, but Rod the Impaler has a clear history of being an anti-gun fanatic.  He is truly obsessed with the issue.  

The Libertarians need to get their collective heads out of their asses and take over the Repub party.  

That's somewhat my philosophy. However, I think there still needs to be a Libertarian Party that threatens the Republicans, while at the same time, the Libertarians need to run as Republicans, i.e., Ron Paul.

Once there are so many Libertarians elected on the Republican ticket, the Republican Party will be the Libertarian Party.

Over the past few years, I've come to believe it's easier to hijack a current major party, than it is to grow a 3rd party. However, the latter can happen. That's how the Republicans came into existence themselves I believe.

What's your point? Both Ryans are bad for us.  Agreed.  No one "good for us" is going to get elected.  Handing the election to someone a thousand times worse is beyond stupid.  

And it doesn't matter [b]what[/b] Skinner is saying--he's not going to get elected, PERIOD!!  End of story.  Winning is the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS!!  Winning with the far lesser of two evils is the best we can hope for.  Dying on principle is for fools.  (In this case.)

Edited to add the last sentence.

If you vote Libertarian you're wasting your vote.  Period.  It will accomplish nothing other than making you feel warm and fuzzy, while taking a vote away from a Republican candidate who will not screw you as badly as a Democrat.  

This is especially true for you Illinois voters.  A vote for the Libertarian is a vote for Blagoyevich.  You can bitch about Jim Ryan and the Republicans all you want, but it's 2nd Amendment suicide to not support him.  When you're faced with registering your AR's, or worse, I'm sure you'll take a lot of comfort in the fact that you voted Libertarian.  

And I know, you just won't register, you'll tell the cops you sold your guns last week, blah blah blah.  Point is that you can actually do something to help prevent that by casting a vote that will count for something in November.  

Name one Libertarian who has a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected in November in Illinois.  



crickets chirp in the distance...

And I'm not apologizing or making excuses for anything the Republicans do.  I'm just saying that a vote for a Libertarian is a vote for Blagoyevich, and that totally fvcks us in Illinois.  Period.  I'm not going to get sucked into a debate on what Republicans could or should have done in the past.  I know, however, what Libertarians have done, which is jack shit.  All they're going to do in Illinois is split the vote that Jim Ryan needs, and that guarantees that gun owners get screwed.

how about:

The largest gun confiscation act in U.S. history -- which is also an unconstitutional ex post facto law and the first law ever to remove people's constitutional rights for committing a misdemeanor....... or A law banning guns in ill-defined school zones; random roadblocks may be used for enforcement; gun-bearing residents may become federal criminals just by stepping outside their doors or getting into their vehicles. Both found in the Omnibus Appropriations Act, HR 3610; became public law 104-208 on [red]9/30/96[/red].


Them crikets just got quiet Eric[:)]

raed more about the "Republican revolution" at [url]www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=16655[/url]

edited to fix link

damm it got quiet on this topic after I posted that......

Well, that's a very nice concept.  Unfortunately,  I'm not willing to trade my 2nd Amendment rights to try to help a Libertoon get into office 25 years from now, or even 10 years.  What is happening in Illinois is a very real threat, and having Blagoyevich win with a Democrat legislature isn't a "small sacrifice".  It would guarantee damage that would take a decade to undo, if it could be fixed at all.  

If there were two major party candidates who would not screw up my gun rights, then I might throw a vote to the Libertarians.  This is definately not that situation.

It is kinda funny, the same bunch that "tried" to repeal the AW ban managed to pass the above anti gun legislation, plus increase funding for the BATF. Reminds me of the "pro-gun democrats" that we have here in parts of NC... they talk big about pro gun but when ut comes down to the wire they stick each piece of anti-gun legislation in they can... yet many vote for them because they talk big.

I still think it was strictly a symbolic gesture and they really didn't try very hard, because they knew that gun owners would be satisfied with talk without actions as many here are.


I pay attention to actions more than talk.  Most Republicans don't produce results, they just dig the hole with a shovel instead of a backhoe.

Don't get me wrong, we have a few liberty minded Repubs in my area, and I vote for them. heck, our Sheriff is a Democrat, but 100% pro gun and freedom so he gets my vote. But if anyone thinks I am gonna vote for Liddy Dole just because she is backed by the GOP they are dead wrong.If the GOP ran Ron Paul style canidates in NC I would vote for them in a heartbeat, but thats what they have to do to get my vote.

A buddy of mine is running in a local election as a Libertarian here in my county, and I am doing everything I can to see him elected. Libertarians may be a long shot, but I see it as the best shot we have for true liberty in the future. They may slowly come to power, or they may influnce the Repubs to straighten up, either way works for me.

As for those who say work form within, look at it like this: You have a gun store in the county, and they get $1200 for an Oly plinker. How do you get them to get to be reasonable? You can continue to buy from them and complain and hope they change (as Eric suggests doing by voting Republican and trying to get them to change) or you can take you business to the new, smaller gun shop who has reasonable prices and force the big guys to compete if they want your business back.

If you continue to pay the outrages prices, even if you complain, they have no reason to change. If you continue to vote Republican it doesn't matter how much you bitch, they still have your vote....why should they change?

Political parties want votes, as long as they have yours they figure you are satisfied with them.

BTW, I have converted as many Democrats to Libertarians than I have Republicans, so they don't just take votes from the GOP.