i'll try to make this short. PLEASE HELP!! it's about gun store ass crickets!!

just about 1 1/2 years ago i bought a SW5 from double action in MI. (yea i know, but i was unaware how shitty special weapons were at the time). to set the scene, i've bought several high quality firearms there, and used their range for years. we're on a first name basis kinda thing.

back to the SW5. after paying my $1600 for the thing, it DIDN'T WORK!! they said they'd send it back. no problem right? 5 months later, no gun. 6 months later new gun finally comes in. it too, sucks ass! they said they'd take care of it. 4 months later i'm getting impatient. they (double action) kept telling me: "been real busy, haven't had time to do anything with it".

finally i tell them: that i spent almost $2000 on a gun, it's been well over a year now...I WANT A GUN!!! it's not entirely your (dbl action's) fault that i have no gun. but back up your sale! put my $ towards credit, i HAVE the money, order me a HK 94. i have (had) a shooting trip i go on once a year and desperately want my new gun by then.

they promised that they'd get my gun back for my trip. and if i didn't, they'd order me up a real 94 when i got back. well, the trip came & went. i call in to claim a new gun. on the phone he's really pissy. i say i want a gun, and he says IT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN!! & hangs the phone up on me. mind you, i consider these people my friends, and have been patient and played this buy their rules.

i go in a day later, he apoligizes. says he has a 94, shows it to me. i say great!! give me the credit, i'll by it tomorrow. THEY WON'T LET ME!!

double action: we need to get the other gun first"

ME:  well ok that could take forever, plus it really doesn't concern me, i'm not the gun store. in the mean time, can i come in next week to inspect the 94, & evaluate it? after all, i'm spending 3 1/2 grand on it

double action: sure!!, see you next week.

well i come, he hands me the gun. i said i'm here on what we discussed last week. i proceed to take down the gun to inspect the bolt head & carrier. (i have a 91 & 93, i know what i'm doing). a minute later, he walks up and starts screaming at me "YOU SHOULD'VE ASKED TO TAKE THIS APPART!!!"

ME: uhhhhh, that's why i'm here, remember? plus i just told you again when you handed me the gun.

THEM: well,....i didn't hear you.

i was sooo pissed. from the start, they haven't been straight with me, before i even put $ down on it (SW5), i was insured that it worked!!! screw these guys!! is there any way legally i can get my money back?? i'm getting really worried i lost $16000.

Whats this guys name? I have been to Double action a few times and I think i know exactly who you are talking aobut.

Keving67

Ugh.  Sounds like you should have some sort of recourse.  You paid them for something you haven't gotten (well, kinda).  BBB can moderate these types of issues.  Hopefully someone who knows what the hell they're talking about will respond.  Good luck...that's a bummer.

Call your States Corporation Commission. NO body ever wants those guys breathing down there necks... You will get whatever you want afterthat.

Ben

keving67, we both know who it is, no need to mention names.

additionally, there's NO WAY i'm paying the asking price for that 94. i was told it only had a hundred or so rounds through it. upon inspection, it was clear the current owner had fired the shit outta the thing. i know HKs tend to dirty up real quick, but it was ridiculous. it was a mess!

You could get a lawyer, but that might end up costing quite a bit.  If not, I would ask them for your money back (or a store credit).  When they refuse, ask for the refusal in writing.  Go to small claims court and file a claim against the store.  I am not sure about the money limit, but I am sure someone from MI here might know.  

Isn't that the truth!

Keving67

ya know what sucks is, is that while you guys gave me some good advice, i feel like i'm at their mercy.

i keep thinking, "yea could get ugly with this" but that would probably just piss them off, & they'd continue to screw me over by never giving me my $ by tying things up in court. plus that's wher i go shoot. i'm at a loss here.

such bullshit! a gun store taking a giant dump on a regular customer that buys 2 guns from them a year & does range their time twice a month. it's really quite sad.

what exactly do  you mean when the sw5 "didn't work" or the replacement  "sucks ass"?

Hey Cleaner!,
I [size=5][b]USED TO BE[/b][/size=5] a customer there. Like You I spent My "Hard Earned" money locally, trying to "Keep The Small Guy in Business!" I paid the extra money to Them, Target Sports, and others here near Me, Only to have all of Them do the same thing.
I ordered an AK and spent 3 weeks running back and forth with these Idiots!(15 mile trip!) I'm not a "Rich Guy",I don't buy a $1k-$3k gun every year, but I've bought 2 [b]from someone else![/b], after all the crap I've been through with the "Local Boys!" I've found a local FFL dealer working from a home shop, who has provided Me with better, friendlier service. I would gladly pass on the name to anyone looking to get what they've paid for. I hope everything works out for You. I too know exactly Who You are speaking of.

Tall Shadow

Man, after all that I'd show the bastards no mercy.  Talk to an attorney and see what your options are.  Sometimes a letter from an attorney will scare the crap out of someone like that.  Shouldn't cost you more than a couple hundred bucks.

File a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.  Find out what state agencies would be interested in fraudulent business practices.

There's just no reason to have to put up with this kind of crap.

I don't wan't to piss on your cornflakes, but buying "2 guns a year" and renting range time "2 times a month" HARDLY makes you "a regular customer"...

In my local gunshop you'd probably be called a "pain in the ass customer"...

Usually customers that only buy 1 or 2 guns a year, are the same people that want full retail price when they trade the guns back in a year after they buy them...


NO FLAMES INTENDED, only offering an opinion from the other side of the counter. [:D]

dragracer,

so what you're saying is that someone that gives you business, by spending well over $5000 in the last year is a pain in the ass???!!! when i walk in there, i don't expect discounts. regular customer or not, all i expect is a little honor when i asked before i put dollar # 1 down, if THE GUN WORKED. it didn't, AND THEY KNEW IT!!!

and you're saying "i'm a pain in the ass?!?!?!

this is where i'd say you're an a giant donkey blower for your previous post. but i won't, you're just inconsiderate.

P.S. screw on your head gear spock, with out us, you wouldn't BE on the other side of the counter.

think you're over the limit for small claims court - don't remember exactly what it is... at most it's $1500.

i shoot at double action about twice a month, so i guess i'm just a pain in the ass customer. they're pretty cool to me, but i've never had a dispute.

i had a good experience at northwest guns in redford. i had a polymer frame crack on me, the manufacturer was snotty, and northwest took it back and gave me full credit. their prices are a little high, but the service was nice.

Wow, a few months ago here on long island I bought a hk 94, with a a3 stock, for $1700. It was essentially new without the box.. :) It was a private sale though, but.. from a collector that knows his guns. I'd say that place is a bit high on their prcies.. :(

In the future you may want to try Cliff at gunfinder.net.  No hassles and the guy is honest.  Double Action is almost as bad as Guns Galore in Fenton.  Those guys are the biggest tools I know.  (They do have good prices though).

elvez,

yea, i hear ya. they were always really nice to me at one time too.

it's weird, there's been a few ocassions i'd be at the counter shootin the shit, and i'd hear one of their guys totally dick slap a customer for not knowing enough about guns to merit a professional response to a question. i'd think, "damn, glad i'm on their good side". guess i was wrong eh?

Actually, Im 100% positive that it is $5000 for small claims court.  I learned that In several justice classes, and on Judge Judy (which is small claims) it is the max you can sue. [smoke]

This is dependent on the jurisdiction of the court, not the same throughout the country.

Thats one hell of a deal. The last time I shopped an HK94w/ fixed stock it ranged from 2750.00 for 80% to nearly 4000.00 for NIB with all the toys. This guy you know want to sell any more?

To address the original problem though; see if you can't just get your money back from the gun store. At this point you not going to be happy with anything they give you.

If they don't give an immediate and full refund, don't play around, don't threaten, just cite your case to all three...State's Attorney, Corporate Commission & BBB, and make that retailer's poor business practices painful. Don't play their games and listen to sorry excuses.

The guy I've been getting a few guns from is disabled and not working. He has been selling off his collection over the years to pay bills. Most of the stuff he bought new as he use to work in a gun store, but.. he didn't buy more then one of this or one of that. So, no more 94's...  :(

I CALL BULLSHIT, No way in hell did a dealer sell you a gun that dident work.

If it was a used gun the dealer has to strip the gun apart, make sure all parts are in good working order, then put it back togather and test fire the weapon. If thay dont do this and some idiot blows himself up shooting an unsafe weapon the dealer gets a nice big fat lawsuit.

NO way in hell did a dealer sell you a gun that did not work. If the gun did not work or was dammaged, it would have been returned to the origanal owner and the dealer would have gotten his money back. Thay wouldent have sold it to you, knowing that it would come back along with alot of bitchin.

Toad???

Sgtar15

And a warm welcome to you, whatever the planet you come from [rolleyes]

Welcome aboard Todd ! [;)]

In Michigan, the maximum amount a person can collect is $3,000.  For more information, click on the link below:

[url]http://courts.michigan.gov/scao/services/selfhelp/smallclaims.htm[/url]

Good luck.

m60308nato, come on, how many dealers can't even take apart an AR?  I can introduce you to a few. Just because someone has an FFL or works in a shop doesn't mean they are knowledgeable about guns.

I have never understood the crappy customer service from SOME FFLs...a few (& I mean very few) are decent & will do right by the customer but most don't give a rat's ass about your gun problems after they have your money...

We all need to make a living but I am down to two FFLs in town.  I refuse to buy from the rest.  

I've also started buying at Gunshows...didn't think I ever would but I have come across some good deals.  I would recommend doing a little price shopping before purchasing at a gun show.

As for your problem:  get a lawyer & sue.  Get back everything you have spent & then also sue for damages in failing to deliver a working product in a timely manner.  

I don't think its bullshit they sold you a non-working firearm...most would call that a typical manner of business.

I hope you fix your problem & get ALL your money back & then some.

Tell everyone you know NOT to do business there & explain why.  A happy customer MIGHT tell 1-2 people about their good experience.  An unhappy customer WILL tell 10-12 folks how they got ripped off!

Bite back.

Sorry dude, re-read my post...

I didn't say you were a pain in the ass, I said that's how you'd be labeled in the local gunshop I frequent...

Did you walk into your shop and display an attitude just like in your response to my previous post ???

I certainly don't support the lazy service you're getting from your shop, but you still haven't described in ANY way, shape, or form, the type of problem you had with the gun...

All you're doing is throwing dollar signs around and bitching...

What exactly was the problem with the gun ?

Art,

If I spend a nickle I am doing them a favor.  I expect the same treatment if I am spending thousands or dollars. Most gun dealer think they are doing us a favor.

dragracer,

i'll explain the gun problems:

gun #1) almost total failure to feed. when it did feed, it failed to eject. i basically had a bolt action! it did however act like a semi-auto once. it fired a whopping total of 4 consecutive rnds.
AND YES, WE TRIED DIFFERENT GRAINS/BRANDS!

gun# 2) was a little better. it would feed & even sometimes eject, but even when it cycled, the trigger wouldn't reset. also, sometimes the bolt carrier would lock all the way back, binding the recoil spring. at that point you would have to remove the stock to free it. THIS SUCKED!! because there was such a tight fit, you needed a team of 3 to remove the stock.

dragracer, NO i don't give them attitude at all. like i said, i considered them friends, & played by their rules for OVER A YEAR!!! it's only now i'm pulling off the gloves.

the only thing i can possibly give to their credit is they have given me hours free on the range. i'm a member, so it's $10 per hr i don't pay. (about 2 hrs a month). which almost makes up for a straight HK mag of mine that they said "just dissapeared".

THANKS EVERYONE for your help! i made some calls last night to lawyers. i'll keep you posted!

All you need to do is call your state Attorney Generals office. They will have a consumer business division that will investigate this for free and will help you with your options..............I've done it and it works like a charm............not to mention the look on thier faces when they start getting letters from the State.

Now THOSE sound like serious problems...
Your lack of a detailed description of the problems left me a bit skeptical...'Sorta sounded like you just didn't like the gun...

The fact that you've tolerated this crap for over a year makes you a much better man than me...
Good luck in your legal battle...

I would have grabbed someone by the throat after 30 days without a gun...

Might I suggest you try contacting the distributor/importer of the firearm in question ?
It might not be your dealer dragging his feet, might be his supplier...
Maybe he too is getting jerked around, Hence the reason for his refusal to offer you another gun or store credit...
Maybe he'd rather see you stuck for the money, instead of himself...
Who knows for sure ???
Obviously, a good businessman would promptly replace the gun, or offer immediate credit...  

Is he trying to repair the gun "in house" ? or did he return it to his supplier ?

Sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way in my earlier reply, I just like to hear all the facts before jumping on the bandwagon...

No flames intended...

If for some reason you get stuck with the SW5, I can probably make it work.  I had some teething problems with mine, but after an extractor spring and a new ejector it rocks 100%.  I'm around Lansing, if I can help let me know.  Jeff

The problem guns didn't come from Hesse, or Century Arms (CAI) did they ?

I've seen A BUNCH of thier crappy stuff lately...
Most of them can be made to work with a few hours of gunsmithing...

Some of thier guns wouldn't even cycle by hand right out of the box...

I'd go after the gun distributor if the dealer isn't at fault...

I'm real mean & nasty when I get pissed.  I'd probably write to the Congressman from my district as well as the two Senators. "Could you help me with a little problem . . ."  They have all sorts of staff weenies to work on such stuff.

Then I'd probably write to the BATF.  Probably wouldn't help, but FFL holders get real antsy when the Feds start sniffin' around.

Then I'd write to the BBB, the Attorney General and anyone else who might be even remotely connected.

Here one of the TV news stations has an "investigative reporter" that reports on consumer fraud.  TV cameras often get results too!  Some newspapers have consumer advocate columns that can help.

Finally, I'd try to file a theft report with the local police.  After all, they did steal your money!

Even if none of the above works, you'd probably get $1600 worth of pleasure watching them sweat!

Told you I was mean!

WTF you smoking?  That is like buying a car and going to the factory instead of the dealership for a warranty issue.

So if I have a problem with a new Bushmaster, are you suggesting I return it to Joe Buttfux gunshop for warranty repair ?

Same goes for a Hesse or CAI built rifle, do I return it to a gun dealer for warranty repair ?

NO, I deal directly with the manufacturer, importer, or the distributor...

The gunshop is just a middleman...

That's just plain common sense...

WTF are you smoking ?

That's exactly what I'd do if I wasn't satisfied with the service I received from the dealership...

Ever hear of the "Lemon Law" ???

I would contact a gun loving, gun owning Michigan attorney, much like myself, who would cut you a huss on his hourly rate to teach those rude asses at double action a lesson.
I used to shoot there when my now wife lived on the other side of the mall. They were not nice folks then.
Figure 20-30 bucks filing fee, maybe $100 to write the 'complaint', and then they will know you are pissed.
Letter=round file
Lawsuit=their full attention
Real suit like that to the end might cost $500, but it would likely never come to that. The complaint gets folks to start doing the right thing.
Small claim is fine for me, but an afternoon off work to file, one day to have the hearing, and another two half days to collect, plus no appeal possible means you pay more to sue there then you would pay a lawyer. (and I would never file in small claim myself, district costs the same and you get a real judge, not his half wit brother, or the failed lawyer son of a county commish, and you can appeal if the case goes badly)

Hey Einstein,

The MFG is Todd.  Good luck getting help there.  If I buy something from a dealer I expect them to make it right.  They have and they do.

Clearly you do not work in the automotive industry.

-dragracer, no prob. i'm just a little bit tempermental about this. as you can imagine.

-G-lock, thank you for your offer!! if i do get stuck with it. i'll take you up on your offer. i'm an hour from lansing.

-and THANKS to all for your suggestions.

UPDATE: i'm gonna march my pissed off ass in there tuesday. i'm going to speak with the other owner. i'm going to inform him that i want my $ or credit by the end off the week, or i'll take other actions to get it. i now have a lawyer.

i'll keep you all posted.

What the FUCK does any of this have to do with the auto industry anyway?

You're starting shit with me for no reason...

The original post was vague, and didn't give a whole lot of info, other than "I've been screwed"...

Nowhere in this thread does it specify the dealer and Mfg are the same person...

How the fuck would I know that ?
I buy my weapons in PA, not MI...

By the sound of the orginal post: [red]"refused credit until they get the gun back"[/red] the dealer was nothing more than a middle man...


You wanna agree to disagree ?
or do you wanna keep the bullshit going ?

Sorry dude,

My point was the car dealership is the only place you can get help because the car plant only builds cars.  The comparison is once a car leaves the plant, they do not have direct contact ever again and the dealer becomes responsible.  

SW is known for not addressing customer concerns and the only way thecleaner may get relief is from the gun shop.  

You are correct about Bushmaster and other reputable companies.  I do the same thing.  With SW you are out of luck.

so what you guys are saying is that because it was a new/used SW5, and double action being the "middle man", i'm totally screwed?

I stopped going to DA right after the first time I was there.  I didn't care for the attidute they have or that Fucking No CCW sign on the front door.