[url]http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2002/6/14/84202[/url]

                                    A group of left-wing actors, writers and
                                    academics has issued a public
                                    condemnation of the Bush administration's
                                    war on terrorism, releasing a letter that
                                    includes the suggestion that the U.S. may
                                    have actually deserved what it got on
                                    9-11.

Yeah, from the relative safety of Vancouver, BC... Now they crawl out of their shells and bleat about crap. Meaningless crap, so they don't have to look in the mirror and see a [b]cowardly face[/b].[puke]

I'd like to tell them assholes to

[img]http://www.AzChatfield.net/Comebacks/Go_F_Yourself_Chimp.jpg[/img]

Anyone on AMERICAN soil who feels that we deserved what
happened in September, should be hunted down and gut shot.






M1QJ, nice picture of j reno

Ed Asner
Ossie Davis,
Martin Luther King III,
Gloria Steinem,
Rabbi Michael Lerner
Eve Ensler.

"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists".
the line has been drawn in the sand.
now what should the government do with these terrorists sympathizers?

i say we ship their fat asses over to Iraq just before we bomb it.

308wood
why make two trips when you can strap them to the daisy cutters?

[img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/Jarhead%5F22%2Fliberals%2Ejpg[/img]

This thread, in particular, has caused me to become quite aggitated.

Nevertheless, I have to(in direct violation of board code, act: flibbidy ; section: floo) say to those foolhearty fellows,

[red][size=6]FUCK OFF[/size=6][/red]

[-=(_)=-]

Edited to say... I'm sorry if I offended any [red]fuckers[/red] that may be about...

.. Ok, I am calling it a nite. Please don't turn me in [:P]

Nice one Jarhead22.  I'm gonna keep that one!

[frag]
[stick]

Ah... well if they feel America deserved it, why don't we get volunteers who feel that way, designate a building that needs to be blown up for them and call Osama's buddies .....

(being a smart @$$)

I'm sitting here laughing out loud!  Jarhead...this is GREAT!

Bravo Zulu...and SEMPER FUCKIN' FI!

[beer]  [marines]  [beer]

(I'll be thinking of this when I go up to Quantico this weekend.)

PECKERHEADS

What's even sadder is that the same sentiment was expressed HERE by a few members, not too long after 9-11...

There is nothing wrong with being a liberty extremist.  Or, for that matter, an American extremist. I consider myself a hetero-extremist. If that makes me homophobic - so be it.

Very Nice!   BTW- is that the correct spelling for "pussies"  It's an underutilized word, you just don't see it in print very often

So, the fact the Christian right has their own agenda makes it all okay? Why are you trying to take the spotlight off the far-left?

I've looked into "Pussies" on several occasions tonite, and I can assure you, that is the correct spelling.

Now off to wash the 'stash
[sex]

Did we deserve 9/11?  An interesting question...

Because of our generally isolated location (two friendly nations and two oceans around us,) we have given ourselves a slight air of "invincibility."  Couple this with the emasculation of the CIA and Defense assets over the term of the last CinC, and we are both isolated AND ignorant.  We knew little of what was going on around us, and many did not care.

Morally, no-one deserves anything like 9/11.  From a standpoint of weltpolitik, it was a wakeup call for the United States.  I'm not saying it was "just what we needed" (it was too much for that!) but we needed something like it to bring our international policies vis-a-vis intelligence and defense back into focus.  Self-appointed moralists and leftists aside, we needed something to happen to us as an impetus for change.  Saying that, I am no less sorry that thousands were killed, and I would still be happy to go on the hunting trip for bin Laden and his cronies...

BTW - For a minute, I thought you were talking about left-handed people!  Play nice - I'm left-handed and still conservative - and I can still drop yer ass from 1500 yards if I need to!

FFZ

Did we deserve 9/11?  An interesting question...

Because of our generally isolated location (two friendly nations and two oceans around us,) we have given ourselves a slight air of "invincibility."  Couple this with the emasculation of the CIA and Defense assets over the term of the last CinC, and we are both isolated AND ignorant.  We knew little of what was going on around us, and many did not care.

Morally, no-one deserves anything like 9/11.  From a standpoint of weltpolitik, it was a wakeup call for the United States.  I'm not saying it was "just what we needed" (it was too much for that!) but we needed something like it to bring our international policies vis-a-vis intelligence and defense back into focus.  Self-appointed moralists and leftists aside, we needed something to happen to us as an impetus for change.  Saying that, I am no less sorry that thousands were killed, and I would still be happy to go on the hunting trip for bin Laden and his cronies...

BTW - For a minute, I thought you were talking about left-handed people!  Play nice - I'm left-handed and still conservative - and I can still drop yer ass from 1500 yards if I need to!

FFZ

See this is what makes AMERICA so great. They could talk about crap like this. Not be Stoned, Shot, Hanged,Beheaded or Burnt at a Stake. Let them go to Iran,Iraq or other places and preach their religious and political beliefs.

Now on the other hand they are not totally wrong. No we did not deserve it. Just like other countries don't deserve the tactics of Terrorists. The truth is we are being targeted for what they consider or evil ways. That includes War, Religious Beliefs, Freedom and everything that makes Freedom Ring.

So you can't fault them for saying it was going to happen. I fault them for saying it was MEANT to happen. Martin Luther King Sr. must be turning in his grave. The way his family has been reacting to all the things he stood for. Martin Luther was a Great man in my eyes. His family can leave or fight for what is right.

The rest of them could all go to Hell. God Bless America and everyone who gave their lives through our History to make America thrive.

Guys, I think you all been hoaxed.

This is NewsMax, they are far from the most accurate source.

And they source the Guardian in England, which, while they may have run such a article (havent checked yet) is from the far opposite from the political spectrum as NewsMax is- and even worse are just plain BAD. They are a tabloid.

When this shows up on Fox News I'll beleve it.

The big give away is including the name of Ossie Davis. Davis is a actor, and was active in the old civil rights movement, and was opposed to intervention in Vietnam- but he also holds the Silver Star for valor in combat in Italy during World War II. I doubt seriously that he would knowingly attach his name in any way to anything that was remotely sympathetic to the attack on the United States.

I am going to see now if there really is such a story on the Guardian website.

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/story/0,7369,737004,00.html] link to article [/url]


US artists damn 'war without limit'

Duncan Campbell in Los Angeles
Friday June 14, 2002
The Guardian

A group of leading American writers, actors and academics have signed a statement strongly criticising their government's policies since September 11. It is an indication of a growing feeling that the administration is promoting its own agenda on the back of the attacks.
In a statement called Not In Our Name, the signatories say the government has "declared a war without limit and instituted stark new measures of repression". They also criticise the media for failing to challenge the direction the government has taken.
They include the musicians Laurie Anderson and Mos Def, the actors Ossie Davis and Ed Asner, the writers Alice Walker, Russell Banks, Barbara Kingsolver and Grace Paley, and the playwrights Eve Ensler and Tony Kushner.
Martin Luther King III, Gloria Steinem, Noam Chomsky, Edward Said and Rabbi Michael Lerner have added their names, making this the widest ranging group of opponents of government policy since September 11.
Jeremy Pikser, one of the organisers of the statement, said yesterday that he had been concerned that the rest of the world was under the impression that there was no dissent in the US to the bombing of Afghanistan and the plans for a war against Iraq.
(To be continued.)

Pikser, a screenwriter who wrote Bulworth, a satire on American politics in which Warren Beatty played a politician who finally decided to speak his mind, said some people had been reluctant to add their names. "A lot of people haven't signed it, although they agree with it, because they think it might jeopardise other things they're involved in."
Clark Kissinger, another of the organisers, said they had been heartened by the number of people wanting to sign.
Mr Kissinger, one of the organisers of the first anti-Vietnam war marches on Washington in 1965, said he was receiving about 60 emails a day from people who wanted to add their name to the list.
"It's a shame that there's not a voice of opposition coming out of the United States."
The statement, which the signatories hope will be published by the American media, ssays: "We must take the highest officers of the land seriously when they talk of a war that will last a generation and when they speak of a new domestic order.
"We are confronting a new openly imperial policy towards the world and a domestic policy that manufactures and manipulates fear to curtail rights."
Support for the president's policies remains high, however, and those who appear critical of them have been accused of lacking patriotism.
It was announced last week that Bill Maher, host of the television show Politically Incorrect, has not had his contract renewed by ABC.
Maher was criticised for an exchange six days after September 11 in which he and a guest agreed that whatever else the hijackers were, they were not "cowardly."

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,737060,00.html] Link to full letter [/url]

What a bunch of crap!

FULL LETTER

Let it not be said that people in the United States did nothing when their government declared a war without limit and instituted stark new measures of repression. The signers of this statement call on the people of the US to resist the policies and overall political direction that have emerged since September 11 and which pose grave dangers to the people of the world.
We believe that peoples and nations have the right to determine their own destiny, free from military coercion by great powers. We believe that all persons detained or prosecuted by the US government should have the same rights of due process. We believe that questioning, criticism, and dissent must be valued and protected. We understand that such rights and values are always contested and must be fought for.
We believe that people of conscience must take responsibility for what their own governments do - we must first of all oppose the injustice that is done in our own name. Thus we call on all Americans to resist the war and repression that has been loosed on the world by the Bush administration. It is unjust, immoral and illegitimate. We choose to make common cause with the people of the world.
(To be continued.)

We too watched with shock the horrific events of September 11. We too mourned the thousands of innocent dead and shook our heads at the terrible scenes of carnage - even as we recalled similar scenes in Baghdad, Panama City and, a generation ago, Vietnam. We too joined the anguished questioning of millions of Americans who asked why such a thing could happen.
But the mourning had barely begun, when the highest leaders of the land unleashed a spirit of revenge. They put out a simplistic script of "good v evil" that was taken up by a pliant and intimidated media. They told us that asking why these terrible events had happened verged on treason. There was to be no debate. There were by definition no valid political or moral questions. The only possible answer was to be war abroad and repression at home.
In our name, the Bush administration, with near unanimity from Congress, not only attacked Afghanistan but arrogated to itself and its allies the right to rain down military force anywhere and anytime. The brutal repercussions have been felt from the Philippines to Palestine. The government now openly prepares to wage all-out war on Iraq - a country which has no connection to the horror of September 11. What kind of world will this become if the US government has a blank cheque to drop commandos, assassins, and bombs wherever it wants?
In our name the government has created two classes of people within the US: those to whom the basic rights of the US legal system are at least promised, and those who now seem to have no rights at all. The government rounded up more than 1,000 immigrants and detained them in secret and indefinitely. Hundreds have been deported and hundreds of others still languish today in prison. For the first time in decades, immigration procedures single out certain nationalities for unequal treatment.
In our name, the government has brought down a pall of repression over society. The president's spokesperson warns people to "watch what they say". Dissident artists, intellectuals, and professors find their views distorted, attacked, and suppressed. The so-called Patriot Act - along with a host of similar measures on the state level - gives police sweeping new powers of search and seizure, supervised, if at all, by secret proceedings before secret courts.
In our name, the executive has steadily usurped the roles and functions of the other branches of government. Military tribunals with lax rules of evidence and no right to appeal to the regular courts are put in place by executive order. Groups are declared "terrorist" at the stroke of a presidential pen.

We must take the highest officers of the land seriously when they talk of a war that will last a generation and when they speak of a new domestic order. We are confronting a new openly imperial policy towards the world and a domestic policy that manufactures and manipulates fear to curtail rights.
There is a deadly trajectory to the events of the past months that must be seen for what it is and resisted. Too many times in history people have waited until it was too late to resist. President Bush has declared: "You're either with us or against us." Here is our answer: We refuse to allow you to speak for all the American people. We will not give up our right to question. We will not hand over our consciences in return for a hollow promise of safety. We say not in our name. We refuse to be party to these wars and we repudiate any inference that they are being waged in our name or for our welfare. We extend a hand to those around the world suffering from these policies; we will show our solidarity in word and deed.
We who sign this statement call on all Americans to join together to rise to this challenge. We applaud and support the questioning and protest now going on, even as we recognise the need for much, much more to actually stop this juggernaut. We draw inspiration from the Israeli reservists who, at great personal risk, declare "there is a limit" and refuse to serve in the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.
We draw on the many examples of resistance and conscience from the past of the US: from those who fought slavery with rebellions and the underground railroad, to those who defied the Vietnam war by refusing orders, resisting the draft, and standing in solidarity with resisters. Let us not allow the watching world to despair of our silence and our failure to act. Instead, let the world hear our pledge: we will resist the machinery of war and repression and rally others to do everything possible to stop it.

(Here are the scum who signed this)

From:
Michael Albert
Laurie Anderson
Edward Asner, actor
Russell Banks, writer
Rosalyn Baxandall, historian
Jessica Blank, actor/playwright
Medea Benjamin, Global Exchange
William Blum, author
Theresa Bonpane, executive director, Office of the Americas
Blase Bonpane, director, Office of the Americas
Fr Bob Bossie, SCJ
Leslie Cagan
Henry Chalfant,author/filmmaker
Bell Chevigny, writer
Paul Chevigny, professor of law, NYU
Noam Chomsky
Stephanie Coontz, historian, Evergreen State College
Kia Corthron, playwright
Kevin Danaher, Global Exchange
Ossie Davis
Mos Def
Carol Downer, board of directors, Chico (CA) Feminist Women's Health Centre
Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz, professor, California State University, Hayward
Eve Ensler
Leo Estrada, UCLA professor, Urban Planning
John Gillis, writer, professor of history, Rutgers
Jeremy Matthew Glick, editor of Another World Is Possible
Suheir Hammad, writer
David Harvey, distinguished professor of anthropology, CUNY Graduate Centre
Rakaa Iriscience, hip hop artist
Erik Jensen, actor/playwright
Casey Kasem
Robin DG Kelly
Martin Luther King III, president, Southern Christian Leadership Conference
Barbara Kingsolver
C Clark Kissinger, Refuse & Resist!
Jodie Kliman, psychologist
Yuri Kochiyama, activist
Annisette & Thomas Koppel, singers/composers
Tony Kushner
James Lafferty, executive director, National Lawyers Guild/LA
Ray Laforest, Haiti Support Network
Rabbi Michael Lerner, editor, Tikkun magazine
Barbara Lubin, Middle East Childrens Alliance
Staughton Lynd
Anuradha Mittal, co-director, Institute for Food and Development Policy/Food First
Malaquias Montoya, visual artist
Robert Nichols, writer
Rev E Randall Osburn, executive vice president, Southern Christian Leadership Conference
Grace Paley
Jeremy Pikser, screenwriter
Jerry Quickley, poet
Juan Gumez Quiones, historian, UCLA
Michael Ratner, president, Centre for Constitutional Rights
David Riker, filmmaker
Boots Riley, hip hop artist, The Coup
Edward Said
John J Simon, writer, editor
Starhawk
Michael Steven Smith, National Lawyers Guild/NY
Bob Stein, publisher
Gloria Steinem
Alice Walker
Naomi Wallace, playwright
Rev George Webber, president emeritus, NY Theological Seminary
Leonard Weinglass, attorney
John Edgar Wideman
Saul Williams, spoken word artist
Howard Zinn, historian

(It doesn't surprise me that Noam Chomsky would sign, as Jean-Francois Revel said - the distinguishing characteristic of leftist totalitarian statists is their hatred for their own country.)

I repeat -- SCUM

I have done a search on both Yahoo news and Google. Searched under the names "Ossie Davis" "Ed Asner" "Not in our Name" and "Jeremy Piksar" the last being the supposed author of this document.

I found no hits. In fact neither search engine even turned up the original Guardian article!

No other wire service has picked this up. The only two places on the internet that even refer to it are News Max and the Guardians own website. And it is already more than twenty-four hours old.

Given the highly competative nature of the global news media its reasonable to expect delays in broadcasting newsworthy tidbits like this- right?

Plus these names aren't really signatures, and the Guardian has not relased any .jpgs or .gifs of any such signatures, or provided a link to a website...

And when you consider that the names attached to this document are with a couple exceptions guarenteed to rase the hackles of conservatives just by their mention...

No this strongly smells of a hoax.

I found the article at Google with the search of “Guardian  asner letter”.
The article was at the top of the list.

You might be right about it being a hoax, ArmdLbrl, but the article does have quotes from some of the signatories.   I would be a little surprised if the Guardian reporter was completely conned.

Its possible that the Guardian reporter was fooled.

But I am more inclined to beleve that the Guardian made it up entirely.

We have quotes, but no audio or video to say that the person quoted actually said that. This is not a American paper we are dealing with, European papers routinely fake stories. Because the only recourse the victim has is to sue for libel. Sure the papers reputations suffers, but as long as ad revenue doesn't drop why should they care?

People in England,(and actually on the Continent too, or so I am told) who buy a particular paper buy that paper because of the political orientation of that paper.  They do not buy them to get FACTS in order to make a decision. They buy the particular paper to find stories that back up their preconcieved notions. The Guardian, assuming I was correctly informed, is a very strongly Socialist paper. People with Socialist politics buy it, and those people like reading about famous people espousing political positions close to theirs, just like people here go ga ga whenever a rock star or movie star says something pro RKBA. The Socialists have decided that they don't like the United States defending itself. The newspaper therefore hunts for soundbites of movie stars and such saying things that are against the US Government, and their audience finds comfort in those articles and buys them. The temptation is naturally to invent a story.

Now as to this letter and this list. Make no mistake, there are people who think this in Hollywood. There are names on this list who would be dumb enough to think this and also dumb enough to sign it.

But not all of these names. And more to the point NONE of these people have agents who are stupid enough to LET them do something like this in the current climate.

The list of "signatures" looks suspicioulsy like someone just took the guest list from Al Gores last campaign rally in LA and apeneded it to the document! Even more to the point, all these people have been involved in political causes that are pleasing to socialists.

A list like this could be made simply by data mining old newspaper articles on things like the US Civil Rights Movement, the anti-Vietnam war movement, the anti-landmine movment, enviromental causes ect. And you don't have to be active, just having to get naimed attending a dinner or something. You get a list of names, a list of names that sounds good because every one of the people on it has been at one time in their lives involved with a cause that is pleasing to a European Socialist. Because a cause can be placed with a name and because the reader WANTS to beleve that all these famous people think like them, the list is beleveable.

And the people on opposite far end of the political spectrum at News Max know that their readership beleves it too. Only in the negative.

And then it could be real. But I really doubt it, cause if it were I don't see how CNN would have kept its hands off of it for the last 24 hrs.

One attendum.

Whose names are missing from the list?

Where is Alec Baldwin?
Where is Bill Mahr?

Notice that anyone RICH enough to pursue a libel case in a ENGLISH or EU court has been left off the list- even when they have publicly SAID anti-government or anti-American statments on film!

Screw Fox or CNN.  Chris Matthew (Hardball, MSNBC or CNBC) and some guests had a field day with this thing tonight.  

These people are pure scum whether you believe it or not.  Their sentence should be watching the towers fall over and over and over and over....

ArmdLbrl,
It seems you may well be right.  This may be a hoax.  
Looking at some of the web sites that are associated with some of the “signers”, and Googling some of the signers, the only other reference to this that I was able to find was:

Artists Network of Refuse & Resist!
 C Clark Kissinger,
[url] http://www.artistsnetwork.org/news4/news170.html [/url]

The “signers” are a collection of some far-left state socialists.   If this is a hoax, someone spent some time on it.