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Posted: 6/6/2002 6:32:54 AM EDT
[#1]
If fingerprinting [u]all[/u] who enter the country can be done as easily as just doing the ones from suspect countries, sure why not?
But let's get started today on the visitors from 'suspect' countries. 'Great Balls of Fire, Time's a Wastin' - Snuffy Smith. Eric The(Urgent)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 6:44:39 AM EDT
[#2]
I am used to security checks...
Israel, remeber? If it is to save my life and other (USA included, of course) lives, I'll subscribe fingerprinting for foreigners... |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 6:45:36 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: But let's get started today on the visitors from 'suspect' countries. Eric The(Urgent)Hun[>]:)] HUN, if we printem all then the discrimination crap immediately ceases - no leg remaining to stand on. Does not much matter whether the cries of discrimination, racial profiling, etc., are correct we know screams there will be. It will be approximately 350 times the work of the presently unworkable plan but so what ? We invented the atom bomb, went to the moon and we can do this. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 6:58:16 AM EDT
[#4]
First things first, sez I!
Get the ones coming from suspected nations and [u]then[/u] we can start dealing with the influx of terrorists from BeNeLux! Eric The(That'sBelgium,Netherlands,Luxembourg,BTW)Hun[>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 7:27:55 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: It seems to me that The_Macallan and Tatjana got into quite a discussion about this yesterday. I'm for better identification of Arab immigrants and visitors. Information in a data base that could be accessed in a timely manner might be an associate file. If a student was found to be part of a terrorist organization, we could link to his associates and perhaps stop another 9-11 style attack. We are under attack and frankly I could care less if the Saudis are offended. If they don't like it, perhaps they should stay home. FINE ! But how does one identify a Muslim when they may be from any country and be of any ethnicity ?? If one could limit terrorists to only those of the Muslim faith how does one identify which is an extremist ? Printem all. (Let God (or a good database system) sortem out.) |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 7:50:55 AM EDT
[#6]
[b]
Quoted: FINE ! But how does one identify a Muslim when they may be from any country and be of any ethnicity ?? If one could limit terrorists to only those of the Muslim faith how does one identify which is an extremist ? Printem all. (Let God (or a good database system) sortem out.) I have no problem with your suggestion--Printem all. I assume that it takes so much time to fingerfrint all, that it is probably not feasible at this time, and we (as US) don't have a lot of time, and personnels. Therefore, like ETH said, just ID the "suspect countries" is the first step. As far as how to ID if one is an extremist or not--There is no way we can tell, but at least it is there as a database for us to utilize, to manipulate, to connect links between any of them. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 8:26:14 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: ........but at least it is there as a database for us to utilize, to manipulate, to connect links between any of them. mojo, my thoughts too. Putem in a database coming in and matchem up going out. (And hunt down the ones who don't match.) But put all in the database. We 'CAN' do this. It is time the government did something besides cause four hour airport delays to stop the terrorists. The USA has propsered because of our previous "We can do_________" Not the present "But this is hard." |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 8:27:57 AM EDT
[#8]
It would seem to me that the only advantage of fingerprinting is the ability to insure that the name on the passport [i]this time[/i] matches the name they used [i]the previous time[/i] they entered the country. If they know that individuals from certain countries are [b]required[/b] to give fingerprints, why wouldn't they just use a passport and documentation from another country which [i]isn't[/i] being fingerprinted?
They create their own documentation. They don't follow the rules. So how does this help? |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 8:39:43 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: It would seem to me that the only advantage of fingerprinting is the ability to insure that the name on the passport [i]this time[/i] matches the name they used [i]the previous time[/i] they entered the country. If they know that individuals from certain countries are [b]required[/b] to give fingerprints, why wouldn't they just use a passport and documentation from another country which [i]isn't[/i] being fingerprinted? They create their own documentation. They don't follow the rules. So how does this help? Right ! Printem all. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 8:49:47 AM EDT
[#10]
I've got a better idea. At this point let's make it illegal for any muslim to enter the country and shoot violators. [uzi]
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Posted: 6/6/2002 8:54:19 AM EDT
[#11]
fingerprint and pic them all. start with the high risk countries first. check everyone coming into the country to verify the fingerprint/pic on a visa matches the fingerprint/pic that we have on file. the technology is there and it works, it is not necessary to use the 'black ink and card' to process them into a digital data base. this would allow checking/verification of individuals before they arrive, when they arrive and when they leave.
put some freakin' patrols on the borders. if we can't stop them at the border, the pics/prints are useless. if we do not do this, everything else is a waste of time. If you are not a citizen and do not wish to give your fingerprints and pics before arriving here, then stay home. i would expect no less from any country that I wanted to visit. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 9:06:44 AM EDT
[#12]
Fingerprinting is a great idea. Once they carry out their suicide attack on us we will be able to identify their body parts and thus be able to ass ertain that they were bad guys.
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Posted: 6/6/2002 9:11:16 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Fingerprinting is a great idea. Once they carry out their suicide attack on us we will be able to identify their body parts and thus be able to ass ertain that they were bad guys. [b]Exactly![/b] It seems to me we need more resources on the ground. However, that takes years. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 9:19:56 AM EDT
[#14]
I'm with the Hun on this one. Let's start with...oh..say Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Libya, Iraq, Palestinians...you know, that part of the world and then expand from there once the resources become available.
Johnny(I'mnottooproudtoborroworagreewithyouridea)Reno [>]:)] |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 9:23:33 AM EDT
[#15]
As long as we remain a free society there's no way to get around this. Finger printing is merely a small inconvenience to those truly determined. I'm pretty sure finger prints can be faked, BTW, not that it matters. We can't track their movements in this country with their fingerprints. Which is what actually matters.
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Posted: 6/6/2002 9:27:28 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: We can't track their movements in this country with their fingerprints. Which is what actually matters. Track WHO'S movements?? To WHOM are you referring? Until you start positively and permanently identifing people (of which some are terrorists) you can't even begin to "track" them as they pass our borders, obtain other ID documents, etc. If "tracking" potential terrorists is important to you, the first step is to IDENTIFY them. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 9:32:08 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: I'm pretty sure finger prints can be faked, BTW, not that it matters. I think they can be smeared or made unreadable, but I don't think they can be faked. We can't track their movements in this country with their fingerprints. Which is what actually matters. From what I saw of Ashcroft's announcement, they would also be required to check in with the INS every 30 days to verify their activities and where they're living. Now, that isn't foolproof but it would put a cramp in their style IF the INS handles it correctly. Plus, if they fail to show up for their meeting, you put them on the "arrest on sight" database. Or should that be "shoot on sight"? |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:42:38 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Quoted: I'm pretty sure finger prints can be faked, BTW, not that it matters. I think they can be smeared or made unreadable, but I don't think they can be faked. Very soon... [url=http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2110380,00.html]Jelly babies dupe fingerprint security[/url] ...According to the security newsletter Crypto-Gram, Tsutomu Matsumoto from Yokohama National University has evolved a technique that takes casts from fingers and builds fake digits from gelatin -- the stuff of jelly babies. With care, he says, all 11 of the current fingerprint scanning technologies he tested give a false positive 80 percent of the time using the fraudulent jelly extremity... |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 10:59:55 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm pretty sure finger prints can be faked, BTW, not that it matters. I think they can be smeared or made unreadable, but I don't think they can be faked. Very soon... [url=http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2110380,00.html]Jelly babies dupe fingerprint security[/url] ...According to the security newsletter Crypto-Gram, Tsutomu Matsumoto from Yokohama National University has evolved a technique that takes casts from fingers and builds fake digits from gelatin -- the stuff of jelly babies. With care, he says, all 11 of the current fingerprint scanning technologies he tested give a false positive 80 percent of the time using the fraudulent jelly extremity... Yep. Saw a short blurb on the tube about this problem with prints. Maybe eye scans, DNA, Facial recognition (I know, not very reliable either) - something to identify an individual that's coming in or going out. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 11:43:55 AM EDT
[#20]
How about a real solution to this problem....kill everyone that was involved in 9/11...financially and physically....But the government instead wants to tighten security at airports...???? Why not make everyone who thinks about attacking America afraid of us again...and where is Osama...remember him? the guy who bush said we were going after? The guy who was in custody once before and the Pres---WJclinton---had him released. And where are the rest of the people involved in the first WTC bombing? Big talk and no actions....
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Posted: 6/6/2002 1:54:06 PM EDT
[#21]
How would this help stop terrorists?
Krazy Akbar goes into the consulate in arab shit-hole #1 ... Krazy Akbar: "Hello, I'm AliAkbarMuhamidMumiaAbuJerkoff, I'd like to get a tourist visa to the USA" Consulate Worker: Fingerprint please. ...10 minutes later... I'm sorry my AliAkbarMuhamidMummiaAbuJerkoff I can't give you a visa today. ...2 hours later at the consulate in arab shit-hole #2 ... Krazy Akbar: "Hello, I'm UsamaBinJerkinOffAliAkbahrBinButtFuck, I'd like to get a tourist visa to the USA" Consulate Worker: "Finger print please . . . I'm sorry my AliAkbarMuhamidMummiaAbuJerkoff I can't give you a visa today. Why are you trying to get visas using fake names? Ol Krazy Akbar never gets into the country. I don't know how helpfull it would be once they've actually made it into the country. Once we get a database built however, we'll be able to keep out people who can in some way be associated with known terrorists. Names can be faked much more easily than prints. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 2:14:16 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: How would this help stop terrorists? Krazy Akbar goes into the consulate in arab shit-hole #1 ... Krazy Akbar: "Hello, I'm AliAkbarMuhamidMumiaAbuJerkoff, I'd like to get a tourist visa to the USA" Consulate Worker: Fingerprint please. ...10 minutes later... I'm sorry my AliAkbarMuhamidMummiaAbuJerkoff I can't give you a visa today. ...2 hours later at the consulate in arab shit-hole #2 ... Krazy Akbar: "Hello, I'm UsamaBinJerkinOffAliAkbahrBinButtFuck, I'd like to get a tourist visa to the USA" Consulate Worker: "Finger print please . . . I'm sorry my AliAkbarMuhamidMummiaAbuJerkoff I can't give you a visa today. Why are you trying to get visas using fake names? Ol Krazy Akbar never gets into the country. I don't know how helpfull it would be once they've actually made it into the country. Once we get a database built however, we'll be able to keep out people who can in some way be associated with known terrorists. Names can be faked much more easily than prints. Al, 'should' be done when the visa application is made. I guess it 'could' be done at the point of entry. With our thousands of miles of unsealable borders nothing is going to work very well. However, we can make things more difficult for the terrorists. (I believe your comments about steadily inputting information into a database is right on target. We can begin to associate various names with prints. At least we know who is trying to enter and could also begin to associate these people with their individual groups.) |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 2:18:01 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: How about a real solution to this problem....kill everyone that was involved in 9/11...financially and physically....But the government instead wants to tighten security at airports...???? Why not make everyone who thinks about attacking America afraid of us again...and where is Osama...remember him? the guy who bush said we were going after? The guy who was in custody once before and the Pres---WJclinton---had him released. And where are the rest of the people involved in the first WTC bombing? Big talk and no actions.... hound, they already fear us. That's one of the reasons they hate us so much. (I don't want to turn this into an Israeli thread but our policies toward Israel is another large reason.) |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 2:45:49 PM EDT
[#24]
When you print them all how are you gonna print the ones that slip through the cracks? IF they cant keep drugs out of this country how the fuck are they suppose to keep illegals out? How the hell are they going to keep NBC weapons out for that mattter? Sure they are detectable but not if the people whos job it is to keep this stuff out are dumb!
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Posted: 6/6/2002 2:46:44 PM EDT
[#25]
What about Muslims born in the US that sympathize with terrorists? Are you gonna print them too?
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Posted: 6/6/2002 2:50:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: What about Muslims born in the US that sympathize with terrorists? Are you gonna print them too? No. They're citizens. You seem to believe that since this is a tough job (cutting down on the number of these fucks that get into the country) we shouldn't try. Why is that? I don't think we're doing enough. We should have more border patrols, and a period of ZERO immigration for starters. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 3:12:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Quoted: What about Muslims born in the US that sympathize with terrorists? Are you gonna print them too? No. They're citizens. You seem to believe that since this is a tough job (cutting down on the number of these fucks that get into the country) we shouldn't try. Why is that? I don't think we're doing enough. We should have more border patrols, and a period of ZERO immigration for starters. Al, I agree with all excepting the "ZERO immigration." (and I wish I could agree with that) The bitter truth is we've done such a completely schit job with our education system that we MUST import engineers and other technical talent to keep our industries going. Pakistan and India both do a better job of teaching mathematics, science than we do. When it comes to education needed for the 21st century we are the third-world country ! |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 3:23:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Reminds me of trying to register gun owners. Bad guys always find a way around laws.
If AliAkbar can't get a Visa to the USA he can always take the slow route through Central America and what would normally be a short swim from Mexico is no a leisurly stroll into the Good ol USA. Granted we now have every inch of our border proteced with armed boys and girlz so they may want to go star gazing instead. If they want in they will get in. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 3:39:16 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: If they want in they will get in. True. About all we can do is make things more difficult. |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 3:49:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Why don't we just inject them with a GPS Sat-tracker chip when they enter the country? That way we'd always know where they're at! [rolleyes]
As long as our borders leak like a sieve, we'll never keep the serious terrorists out. If umpteen thousands of Mexicans can cross the border every year, how much easier will it be for a terrorist with "resources?" |
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Posted: 6/6/2002 5:55:16 PM EDT
[#31]
I can't believe you guys are talking like you endorse fingerprinting. Are you all nuts? None of you have any inclination that if it's done to the "outsiders", then it will eventually be done to us "insiders". They will use this as a pretext to set up the databases and those databases will be large enough to include us Americans. You don't see this, huh?
Keep in mind that fingerprints are your own personal property. If you relinguish YOUR personal property, then I'm going to have a hard time holding onto MY personal property. So you all will make it difficult on the rest of us. Wake up out there. Quit talking like a NWO'er. No fingerprints. [%(] Fingerprints [50] |
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