User Panel
Posted: 5/26/2002 6:26:43 PM EDT
Just finished watching the HBO special on 9/11
I am seething with anger , who allowed these f**king assholes to do this ? The bleeding heart congress who have handcuffed our Intell community for the last 25 years ? The ticket punching politically correct , career driven snivelling cowards in the FBI and CIA who were ( and continue to be ) afraid to speak up for fear of possibliy sounding like a trouble maker ? These are the same PC agents who are now at the top of these agencies and are reassuring us that they are on the job. That f**king BULLSHIT. I have O confidence in these inept cowardly agencies , especially the FBI !!!! I am wrong here ? Poll added |
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The primary problem is, when they reassure us, we are reassured.
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yes we do need to find where the problem was, and fix it, but not in an angry rage of blame. we dont need to see who is at fault in an angry way, because this will only cause chaos and in America i belive we need to unite. though everyone is mad about the 9/11 attacks, as they should be, assigning blame out of spite or anger is not a good idea. we do need to find the problem and fix it, but bitching about it wont help. just my $.02
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we need a good ole public lynchin' for those who thought that "...and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the United States" (~) was a token statement used to obtain a gov'ment job instead of an Oath and who chose to 'look the other way' or its equivilant.
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I would suggest that your anger is best directed towards the enemies of this country. Hindsight is 20/20. We always seek to assign blame on the presumption that our government can protect us from even the unthinkable. It can't. I would wonder however how many other attacks never happened because of good work by our government?
I would suggest that all the warning signs, alerts etc, would not be taken seriously without a critical event having taken place. There were warning signs before Pearl Harbor but they went largely unheaded except for a little extra vigillence. Noone expected a whole fleet within striking distance. I would venture that we should look to the future instead of trying to lay blame for what has already passed. Given enough time and distance and lasting domestic peace, it will happen again, and our descendants will again be surprised. Someone will always challenge the big guy on the block if only to prove to himself that it was a stupid thing to do. Our level of response to this attack was not expected, nor was its level of success. |
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It was always believed that a major attack by terrorists was gonna happen. Just where and when wasn't known. This goes back a lot of years. Starting from the end of the Gulf War. We can expect more attacks as long the terrorists are willing to kill. Has anyone seen this? [url]www.tuppersaussy.com/HTMFILES/Annu20.htm[/url]
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How many of us would have put up with all the increased airport "security" had it been implemented in the pre-9/11 days? Everyone wants to point fingers, but from the sounds of it, there were nothing more than generic threats against us. Heck, in the past week (since the backlash of blame over the "ignored 9/11 warnings,"), how many vague terror threats have been made known? New York landmarks, scuba divers, apartments and small planes - probably the same warnings we received before.
In some ways, I think the terrorists have actually won at least some small battles. Every day I read newspaper articles that quote people who are afraid to fly or afraid to visit the Brooklyn bridge because of threats. I think this is a major thing that terrorism tries to accomplish. Something that will be interesting to hear in the upcoming years (assuming we are ever told about it) will be the actual terrorist acts that the government is "preventing" right now. Of course, it could turn out to be nothing too, I suppose. |
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Read David Horowitz's essay on this subject at wwwfrontpage.com (if that's not correct search for frontpage magazine)
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9-11 was a tragic event. But shit happens!!! We do not yet live in an all loving kind and wonderful world. Government can not protect us from everything. Place your blame where it squarly belongs...on the terrorist themselves!!!
Blaming any one else is the same as blaming a gun maker for a shooting. Sgtar15 |
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I just hope that things like in Dick Marchinko's novels is going on. The rag heads are getting waxed behind the scenes.
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Blame the terrorists for trying it in the first place.
Blame the government for restricting self-defense and then telling us that they will protect us when they can't. Blame the people for believing them and allowing them to do it. |
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I am one American who is tired of blaming everyone but the responsible party for issues. I am tired of the buck passing. I am all for personal responsibility.
The captain of the ship that was attacked in Yemen is the ONE who is ultimately responsibile for that ships security. Men died, he shoulda walked the plank..... The NSA is the ONE who is ultimately responsibile for 9/11. Yes, Condoleeza Rice. I think she may be brilliant, smart, blah, blah , blah. BUT she is the National Security Advisor, and National Security was breached. Sorry Condy, but GW shoulda fired your ass. |
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Quoted: The NSA is the ONE who is ultimately responsibile for 9/11. Yes, Condoleeza Rice. I think she may be brilliant, smart, blah, blah , blah. BUT she is the National Security Advisor, and National Security was breached. Sorry Condy, but GW shoulda fired your ass. View Quote |
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Who is to Blame?:
Quoted: The bleeding heart congress who have handcuffed our Intell community for the last 25 years ? View Quote Yup! The ticket punching politically correct , career driven snivelling cowards in the FBI and CIA who were ( and continue to be ) afraid to speak up for fear of possibliy sounding like a trouble maker ? View Quote Uh huh! These are the same PC agents who are now at the top of these agencies and are reassuring us that they are on the job. That f**king BULLSHIT. View Quote Yahtzee! I am wrong here ? View Quote Nope.... but you forgot: A poorly run, overly bureaucratic federal agency known as the INS. Which now thanks to recent legislation (I think it passed, didn't it?) will be replaced by [b]TWO[/b] poorly run, overly bureaucratic federal agencies to protect our borders and monitor visitors. Who else is to blame?: The CEO's of the major airlines, The Secretary of Transportation, and our Homeland Security Director for bowing to PC pressure and cost saving airplane construction that has left cockpits un-hardened and flight crews un-armed. In the many cases of "Air Rage" the persons are rarely convicted or punished and being famous gives you a right to deficate on food service carts in flight like a phucking monkey at a zoo. Pilots and flight attendants are left with little more than Zip-ties and a crash axe to deal with these people (not to mention in one case I know of a Crash axe was used to attempt to break a cockpit window by a pilot after a crash and the axe head sheared from the handle... great weapon eh?). [b]I BLAME OUR GOVERNMENT!!![/b] I blame them for not knowing what was coming in a sea of intelligence information. I blame them for failing to allow flightcrews (and even passengers) the RIGHT to self defense and self preservation. I blame them for failing to fix any of these apparent lapses even AFTER the horrific events of 9/11/01. The cockpits are no safer than they were pre 9/11. They are not any better defended, nor hardened (I've seen these flimsy reinforcement bars first hand). The airports are no safer than they were pre 9/11 and the idea that a few National Guard guys standing there will somehow deter a hijacker is absurd (not ragging on our Guard guys here... just the principle behind their deployment). This is all just "feel good" security and mostly just a hassle. "The bullet may strike a critical component and cause the plane to crash." Modern commercial aircraft are built very redudant with at least one and often two back-up systems should one fail or be damaged. "A stray bullet may strike and injure/kill a passenger." And the alternative of allowing a 767 to be used as a guided ballistic missle into a skyscraper is better? "The pilot needs to be focused on flying the plane." Much agreed but that's why there are two. One will fly the plane to the nearest suitable airport. The other will turn and face the door and shoot ANYONE that trys to enter. "A bullet hole could cause the plane to rapidly decompress and suck people out of the plane." Only if you're flying over the city limits of Hollywood, CA. Otherwise bullet holes cannot cause enough damage to be catastrophic to the aircrafts structure. |
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Quoted: NO, the terrorists were ultimately responsible for 9/11, no one else. View Quote No flame intended but I disagree...... If you get in my house and cause kaos, you may be the aggressor, but my lack of security and failure to control my situation is my fault. I guess it depends on if you can accept personal culpability or wish to blame others for your lot in life. While I am confident(OBL & gang) commited the deeds, we have personal issues that need addressed. We [b]ALL KNEW[/b] our airline security is/was a joke. Even post 9/11 it is [b]STILL[/b] a joke. If ElAl can prevent hijackings, cant we? Does anyone not know the security tests are a sham? That is National security and she is the person responsibile. When KMart(RIP/KMA)went under their CEO bit the bullet, as do most leaders. This IS her cross to bear. I will not tolerate critisicm from the demokommies who had 8 yrs to do what it takes to fix problems, and I will accept no less from conservatives. She had her shot and failed. |
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I think the main failure was with the FBI.
For over 8 years, we've had lots of stories about the dysfunction with the FBI. with Ruby Ridge, Waco, their crime labs, et al. Seymour Hersh has a piece about how info and warnings brought to it from the FAA were processed in a timely fashion and presented to the president. Similar FAA warnings given to the FBI were basically just shuffled around and lost in the bureaucratic system. After 9/11, there were widespread complaints by regional LE agencies about the arrogance of the FBI and its unwillingness to share any information it had with them. Cooperation with the FBI is a one-way street in terms of information and respect. I think the main failing is with the FBI, with seriously needs to be reformed on the management level. |
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The airports are no safer than they were pre 9/11 and the idea that a few National Guard guys standing there will somehow deter a hijacker is absurd (not ragging on our Guard guys here... just the principle behind their deployment). This is all just "feel good" security and mostly just a hassle. View Quote I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the American people. As long as the loudest voices are plaintively begging for protection, and asking "Why won't you protect me?", the government will respond in a manner consistent to those who need to feel somebody else is protecting them. As long as the people feel the need to reason with criminals and to understand their feelings and their abused childhood, nothing will change. As long as the people feel that responding to criminal behavior with force of arms is being insensitive, nothing will change. As long as the people believe that objects are the cause of crime, nothing will change. As long as that law abiding people are afraid to confront criminal behavior for fear of lawsuits, nothing will change. As long as the people do not drop the hammer without hesitation on those who hurt others without provocation, nothing will change. |
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Well said CavVet and Raven .
What I was basically trying to say is there MUST be accountability for a persons actions or inactions in the performance of their duties. The people running the FBI and CIA cashed there checks every payday ( thanks to the american public ) w/o blinking an eye. Think about it it does'nt matter what line of work you are in , if you fail to perform there are going to be consquences. These people should not and MUST not be immune simply because they are public servants , in fact they must be held to a higher accountability because they are entrusted with the duty to protect the country. |
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Quoted: Just finished watching the HBO special on 9/11 I am seething with anger , who allowed these f**king assholes to do this ? The bleeding heart congress who have handcuffed our Intell community for the last 25 years ? The ticket punching politically correct , career driven snivelling cowards in the FBI and CIA who were ( and continue to be ) afraid to speak up for fear of possibliy sounding like a trouble maker ? These are the same PC agents who are now at the top of these agencies and are reassuring us that they are on the job. That f**king BULLSHIT. I have O confidence in these inept cowardly agencies , especially the FBI !!!! I am wrong here ? View Quote No Sir, you are absolutely, 100% Pissed off! (and correct) Just remember that feeling, you may need it later. A lot of folks around have already forgotten. Fools! |
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The terrorist are to blame.
Very few Americans are going to stand for one tenth of one percent of what it will take to make this a mommy state where all are kept and protected. Hell there are people here who bitch because they have to show ID to enter an airplane and wear seat belts. When random police road blocks are set up, when mandatory phone and Internet mail taps are put in place on everyone, when a national ID card is instituted with bio-metrics, when monitored and approved church services, and when door-to-door searches start the country will only be slightly safer and the terrorist will have won. See, they hate this country for the freedom that we have. The freedom to practice any (or no) religion at all. For our women to wear anything (or nothing) at all. The freedom to do a thousand things that are prohibited by their oppressive religious state. And when the people give up freedoms for security it is the death of this country. Destroy the enemy completely, hang the bastards in the public square, burn their homes, salt their fields, slaughter their animals, make the terrorist of the future see and understand what awaits the next set of turds that attack our country. |
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I let us down there was no one to save..The finger pointing starts all the political Bull Crap. FBI, CIA, Bush, Clinton. We let it happen. We are still going to let it happen again. There is nothing anyone can do.
We the people of the US allowed this to happen in Beirut, in Somalia, in Colombia, in Panama, in Africa, in Nam. Now it finally happened in our own backyard. Lets find a scapegoat. Those who voted for these people to hire the people to run the FBI CIA are the ones who let this happen. They say when you point the finger of blame there are 3 fingers pointing back. I allowed this to happen and worse of all I couldn't save anyone including my old partners. |
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Quoted: If you get in my house and cause kaos, you may be the aggressor, but my lack of security and failure to control my situation is my fault. I guess it depends on if you can accept personal culpability or wish to blame others for your lot in life. View Quote As for the first paragraph, if I have reasonable security, or even if I have none other than my gun, the blame still lies with the bad guys. I did not make them break into my house. That crap sounds like the Democrats and socialists, saying that the bad guy was tempted by my possessions and I am wrong to keep them from him. No one makes bad people do what they do except themselves. No one here could have seen the vague warnings at the time and predicted what was going to happen, except maybe the apparent hero of some here, Billy Bob Klinton. At least that's the impression I get. If we are going to play the blame game, let's blame old Bill for not accepting Bin Laden gift wrapped when he had the chance. [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A61251-2001Oct2[/url] |
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While I agree in part to Pauls and Larrys assessment, I also still disagree.
I do agree that when one points, one has 3 fingers coming back at ones self. Blame? Enough to go completely around the table.... Aggressively attack any players in the attack, numero uno. They did attack and must pay. There are other players who have culpability. Determine who in fact, within our system, is responsible for our National Security before this. Do you think the ship Captain in Yemen is fautless and it is all the terrorists fault? "We were walking down the street (with our head up our...) minding our own business", and that justifies innocence on anyone in our government? |
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Billy and the rest of those damned liberals that we allowed to lead us into La La Land.. Gotta appreciate that boy's taste in cigars but he was a loser as a leader...
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