You must understand that the source for this story is Debka, an Israeli source with no apologies, but with a good track record, IMHO.

See if you think it makes sense.

[size=4]Military movements in Arab countries[/size=4]
[b]Israeli action in Ramallah causes growing nervousness in region[/b]
© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com

Israel's extended military offensive against Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's Ramallah stronghold launched this morning quickly took on a wider regional context. By afternoon, DEBKAfile's military sources began to pick up signs of unusual military movements in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

They may reflect the growing nervousness among Arab leaders over Israel's announced partial
call-up of reservists and preparations for a full mobilization, despite the Passover holiday. The first announcement of 20,000 reservists to be called up was stepped up later to 30,000. Arab governments were already put on edge by the upheavals attendant on U.S. preparations for its campaign against Iraq.

[b]Anticipating this sensitivity, Israel conveyed its assurance to Washington in good time for relay to concerned Arab governments that the IDF call-up was solely aimed against Arafat and his terrorist apparatus and had no wider goals.[/b]

In a further series of messages conveyed through Washington, Israel provided additional
clarification of its Ramallah operation.

The military operation was vital, Israel explained, not only to isolate Arafat and cut off his terror machine, but to uncover the vast stores of secret weapons he has amassed in violation of the Oslo Framework Accords he signed with Israel in 1993. Israel intelligence had learned that Arafat hid
these forbidden depots beneath Palestinian administration buildings in the government compound in Ramallah. As Israeli tanks and bulldozers advanced through the compound during the day, huge tunnels came to light containing an array of weaponry, including anti-tank and anti-air missiles – apparently only one section of a many-branched storage system.

Under the headquarters of Col. Tawfiq Tirawi's Palestinian General Security Service, Israeli elite units turned up a large bunker in which were stacked hundreds of M-72 LAWS (Light Anti-Tank Weapons). [b]A similarly packed store was concealed under the Palestinian Authority prison, also captured by Israel forces.[/b]

Bunkers under Arafat's offices were found to contain electronic surveillance devices for tracking Israeli military movements, as well as detailed diagrams of the bases and movements of senior Israeli officers stationed in the Ramallah region, with notes on the security details guarding them and their routines. Also found were aerial maps of at least one Israel air base.

- continued -

Israel's military and intelligence command ordered military bulldozers to systematically break through suspect buildings in the compound for two purposes: To uncover the illicit weapons stores and to leave Arafat isolated in his undamaged office and living quarters amid the ruins of his compound.

Israel's assurance meant to calm had the opposite effect. Sharon's declaration that the military operation could last weeks did not help soothe edgy Arab nerves either.

Moderate Arab leaders are additionally concerned lest Saddam Hussein or the Lebanese
Hezbollah opt for opening a second front against Israel to ease the pressure on Arafat. The Iraqi ruler is capable of shooting missiles or suicide aircraft over Israel's main cities, while the Hezbollah's newly supplied rockets can cover most of northern Israel up to a point south of Haifa – and area with a population of nearly a million.

If either attack came to be, Israel would strike back against Iraq and Hezbollah bases in the Lebanese Bekaa Valley.

Faced with this potential scenario – not to speak of the complications of an American attack against Baghdad – Arab leaders do not want to be caught unprepared militarily. Hence the military movements.

The nature of the American response to these developments is anyone's guess. Would Washington lend Israel's military moves full or partial support? How would it react to an Iraqi or Hezbollah attack on Israel and how far would the Americans go to integrate this unfolding Middle East chapter into the broad U.S. global war on terrorism?

DEBKAfile's military and political experts say it is too soon to offer definitive answers to thesequestions.

The highest authorities in the U.S., Israel and Arab governments may be called upon to
make such decisions at very short notice – within days or hours.

In view of these uncertainties, Israel's action against Arafat and the Palestinian Authority already has an impact on world financial and oil markets. The dollar is strengthening and oil prices, which have been rising slowly and steadily for the past several weeks, are continuing to climb.

See article at:[url]http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=27020[/url]

Just think, the Israelis now possess the PA prison, where the [u]only[/u] prisoners were suspected Israeli collaborators, and the two reputed murderers of former Israeli Minister of Tourism, Rechavam Zeevi!

Just call it ‘the luck of the Jews’! [:D]

Eric The(Serious)Hun[>]:)]

I hope Arafat comes out of all this...horizontally.

Eddie

That won't bother me much... I get 60MPG...

I have no pity for the Palestinians.  They want to bomb and kill innocent civilians, they should be stomped down and put in their place.  They are uncivilized, and should be treated as such.

This is the very reason we should have slapped a Chevron sticker on every refinery over there long ago.

If this keeps going like it is, gas will be about .40 per gallon because the Isralies will cut us a deal. They will occupy all those oil rich countries soon.

How hard is it to refine radioactive oil?

With the above announcement by Sharon I'm certain all Arab concerns have been assuaged.

I am starting to wonder about the Arab world's possible reaction to a situation where the Israelis are preparing to trample some Palestinan ass while at the same time we're getting ready to go back into Iraq and trample some Hussein and terrorist asses.

Two major military actions, simultaneously conducted by two non-Muslim powers against Muslim followers in Muslim lands?

Cause for concern, I think.


I think that the US's current involvement with Israel needs to be either total support or total withdrawal.   "In for a penny, in for a pound", as the British might say.

My reasoning is that if we provide ANY support for Israel, (Note:  I spell it correctly,  It's NOT "Isreal"...bad spellers take note!!!) then we have the emnity of the Arab nations, so there is no point in taking half measures.

We need to either back out of Israeli involvement or really give those Arab pigs something to squeal about, and nothing in between.

My personal preference?  Well, I'm not Jewish but I have nothing against Jews, either.   And you don't abandon your friends when they get into a fight.  I say let's support them.


A friend of mine offered this solution:  Since a lot of Israelis have dual citizenship with the US, and moved to Israel from the US, he suggested that those people be given a choice: Choose your country now.  Stay in Israel, and you lose all rights to US citizenship.  Or come home.   And then, the US severs all aid to Israel, keeping the US out of the mideast powderkeg.

I'm not sure I like that solution, but some people might.   I like my solution better: Total support.

I made a decision a while ago, and that this is about religion first and foremost.  The Muslim religion is the most intolerant religion of all that I know of. There can be no peaceful co-existence between Muslims and Jews or Muslims and Christians or Muslims and any other religion, by Muslim attitudes and actions as held by a great many of them.   There are entire countries where if you are not Muslim, you'd better not let it be known because even the government is anti-other religions, such as Saudi Arabia.

So, I support any non-Muslim religion if I have to make that choice.   The rest of us can get along fine.  Buddhist, Hindu, Christian, Jewish, whatever.  All get along fine...but Muslims cause trouble too often.  

Not to say that all Muslims are like that, but enough are like that to cause me to view the whole religion in general with deep distrust.

CJ

This is and has been my preferred course of action - GET OUT!
Israel will continue to fight forever if the United States taxpayer will continue to foot the bill.

Palestinians suicide bombings will cease if we buy them tanks, F-16's, helicopter gun ships, etc.

I continue to say that neither the territory currently occupied by the Palestinians nor Israel is of strategic importance to the United States.

I continue to say that Turkey and Arabia are most important strategically to the United States.

How can you "keep the US out of the powder keg" after 9/11?  Seems to me it's time to do something about those crazy people over there.

God governs in the affairs of men and nations.

How are we to be his counselor?

100% correct. Not the easy thing to do, but necessary.

Aviator  [img]www.milpubs.com/aviator.gif[/img]

If you ask me (and you probably won't,) the Israeles are riding on the US's coat tales.

We've got enough firepower in the region and the "Must Stop Terrorist" clamor for the last 6MO. The Israeles are chiming in the choir and popping some rounds - Then WHAM - they go and pull this. There is no way they could do it without tugging on Daddy's coat and asking for permission...

If they had not gotten it, I'm sure they'd still do it, but not on such an overt scale.

This started long before the US existed.  We'll be long out of the picture when it ends.

Eddie

Post from 5subslr5 -

[size=3]Sez you![/size=3][:D]

I think that Israel's enemies already have sufficient numbers of the latest tanks (T-82s), the latest jetfighters (Mig-29s), and the latest Hind helicopter gunships, and they have not chosen to use them against Israel.

Why haven't they?

'Cause they don't wish to leave them as burned out hulks in the desert after a clash with the IDF, that's why.

Why should Arafat and his group risk losing their veterans when they've got silly boys and girls doing their dirty work for them?

Let's see, Israel is outnumbered by its enemies somewhere in the vicinity of 40 to one.
[img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/EricTheHun%2Farabworld%2Egif[/img]
Doesn't seem fair, does it?

I mean, that Israel [u]always[/u] whips their asses![:D]

It's almost miraculous, like they had G-d overseeing them and protecting them.

Against everything but children suicide bombers!

But then, maybe that's the Lord's judgment against the Palestinian people? That they would lose their sons and daughters for....nothing.

Golda Meir, a former Prime Minister of Israel, once said to the Palestinians: “I can forgive you for killing our sons, but I cannot forgive you for forcing us to kill your sons.”

Eric The(BlessUS,BlessIsrael)Hun[>]:)]

Well, the Bush administration has called for Israel to w/draw - in final realization that we can't won't do anything against Iraq as long as the Israeli/Palestinian war is at a boiling point.  

migs? migs yer ass! WE are selling them f-15's...and t-series? we're arming them with OUR latest. and the maintanance contracts to keep them ready. iraq may well be the least of our problems if mustaffah-the-muslim goes radical on us.

add up what WE give and sell the bastards and tell me again how the game is played.

all in the name of oil. this country runs on muslim supplied oil.

[url]http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/saudi_arabia.htm[/url]

Tha [u]Saudis[/u] have F-15s and AWACS from the US, but the remainder of the Arab states, I don't think, get that sort of sophisticated hardware!

The point I was making was that [u]whatever[/u] hardware they have, they are not inclined to use it against Israel!

It's called 'the burned child fears the fire' syndrome!

Eric The(Realistic)Hun[>]:)]

When are the Israeli's ever going to grow a pair, drive the bulldozer up the hill, and flatten The Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa mosque?

If Washington would get out of their way they would.

I would pay to see that!  Talk about all hell breaking loose...

Probably the most under reported action of the day, has been Israeli air strikes against targets inside Lebanon and the largest cross border artillery duel in years, Consisting of terrorist militia's firing Katusha rockets, mortars and medium artillery, being answered by Isreali heavy artillery and air strikes.

The Iranian backed, terrorist militia's inside Lebanon, Have not used their FROG missle batteries yet, But it seems they are certainly testing the waters for their use.

I would sure like to see the overhead intelligence imagery of Northern Lebanon, Syria and Iraq.

Supposed to have something like 20,000 Katusha rockets ??

The nation in the Middle East that has the most American hardware besides Israel is Egypt. IIRC we have to pretty much equip Egypt unilaterally with equipment along with Israel. Hell I think they even have a contract under way for Apaches.

Edited for link*
[url]www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/egypt.htm[/url]

Mubarik never bothered to even go to Beruit.  He doesn't really want anything to do with Isreal, has no intention of getting involved on the Asian side of Suez ever again.

He is far more interested in doing something about Libya and Sudan, and getting rid of his own fundimentalist terrorists. And he doesn't get along with the Saudis, who he thinks did not give Egypt its due for helping defeat Iraq in 91' and have since only answered that debt by financing terrorists trying to destabilize his government.

[img]http://www.rjaf.gov.jo/COPRA-1.jpg[/img]

eric, these cobra's are from the royal jordanian airforce! care to check out their other toyz?!?!

go look at the neato little "go-boom" gizmo's bahrain, quatar, egypt and...oh...nevermind...you missed the point.

you damn straight they'll use them. when they get ready...and not before.

Post from CAMPYBOB -

No, I understand your point - more Arab nations have sophisticated weaponry that I had ever imagined.

I just don't ever get around to looking at Arab weaponry that much since my enthusiasm is reserved for the Israelis.

But what I was simply trying to say is that [b]whatever[/b] sophisticated arms the Arabs may possess, they are not inclined to go up against Israel with them. Period.

The 'burned child [u]still[/u] fears the fire.'

Eric The(Corrected)Hun[>]:)]

I must not have gotten His e-mail...

what did he tell [I]you [/I] the answer to the "middle-east problem" is?

Right now, The question that looms in my mind, is, Will Syria Allow Israel to conduct air attacks on targets inside Northern Lebanon with out contest from the Syrian Air Force.

The last time Israel and Syria had an airial scrap over the bekaa vally, in the early 80's, The Syrian Air Force got their heads handed to them.

Yet there are several factors that point to the fact, that Syria might find it in her intrest to try such a air battle again.

The last battle over the Bekaa was almost 17 years ago, one should never assume that an Air Force defeated that many years ago, is the same Air Force one would face today.

The Syrians might not fall for the drone gimmick again this time. every body has seen that stunt now.

The Syrian Air Force might adopt a dual attack stratigy of attempting to strike Israeli Air Bases, while at the same time, engaging the Israeli Air Force over Lebanon, using the current Palistinian situation as political justification for convetional air strikes inside Israel. Something they did not have justification for in the early 80's air battle.

The Israeli Air force is one of the best in the world, but in the face of defending Israeli Air Space, it's ability to conduct 24 hour offensive air op's would be hampered. Israel does not have very many runways, to even lose a few of them, just for a matter of hours could be a real problem.

Anybody out there have any good info on the Syrian Air Forces load out of Runway denial munitions?

Aviator, has the Army dropped the weight standard?  Or do you get a "waiver" as a pilot?

Just wondering! DaMan  

mojo, "Israel's mobilizing her reservists probably means "talk is over"!

It will soon mean that they [the Israelis] will want somebody else to take over "SECURITY DUTIES"!  

[b]GUESS WHO??!!![/b]

DaMan  

Uh, Eric?  Who is DEBKA?  Are they the ones who said troops from the PRC where being sent into Afghanistan to fight the US?   HAHHAHAHHA!

OHHH! THEY ARE PRO-ISRAELI!  THEY REPORT ACCURATE NEWS!

Are those yellow "slit-eyed boys" from the PRC  still gonna be arriving soon to fight against OUR troops in Afghanistan?  Didn't see them arriving and didn't see another DEBKA follow-up article on that event. .... NERK,NERK,NERK!!

Syria's air force is no competition for Israel's, period. The threat of large-scale military attack on Israel is from the countries which have leadership who are essentially insane and suicidal. That narrows the list down and excludes Jordan (talk about being between Iraq and a hard place [:D]), Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia (the Saudis prefer to let other people do their dirty work, and are the real terrorists we need to declare war on).

There have indeed been Chinese (Chinese citizens, probably not, but possibly, associated with the Chinese gov't) muslim fighters captured fighting with Taliban and Al Qaeda troops in Afghanistan. A fourth grader* could figure out the far-reaching extent of the Chinese gov't's involvement with the former government - where do you think all those *Chinese* AKs and all that ammo with "made in China" on the cases comes from?

* [i]But then, assuming DaMan has a fourth-grade education would be an insult to the public education system[/i]

After the Israelies defeat most of the moslem world they will do one thing far smarter than the US!!  They will not rebuild their enemies countries.

It is sad that we are holding them back from doing the right thing - starting with blowing Arafat to Kingdom Come!!  I sincerely hope that after they obliterate the Palistinians that SA enters so we can eliminate the real key to this whole situation.

If that ever happened, I'd start sending money to Palestine.

Post from DaMan -

Who is DaMan? Is he the one who said that the Mutaween religious police weren't responsible for the deaths of [b][u]15[/u] schoolgirls[/b] in Mecca? HAHHAHAHHA!

Is DaMan the same fellow who doubted on Sept 12th that Arabs were responsible for the Attack on America? Yes, indeed he was.

NERK,NERK,NERK!!

Eric The(BringItOn,LittleBoy!)Hun[>]:)]

Let us say for the sake of discussion that you are correct.

Long before there are any Israeli forces to occupy the Arab lands the Arabs will set fire to their oil fields.

The Israeli's will occupy sand in which "big daddy" has little interest.

What will follow is a world-wide depression of epic proportions.

Perhaps this nightmare scenario is the thing of your dreams.  If so, dream on.

But [b]subsailor[/b], when Saddam Hussein did the very same thing in the oilfields of Kuwait, we heard the dire precdictions of two years of burning before the flames could be put out!

How about three months?

And the Kuwaitis were back to exporting oil with six months....

The Saudis will have to do better than Saddam if they want to cut their own throats.

Besides, the Saudi Princes will just flee to their luxurious townhomes throughout Europe and the United States, along with the better looking parts of their families.

Eric The(Cynical)Hun[>]:)]

I don't quite think they have the population base to carry that one off.

Beyond that, do you seriously think it's a good idea for America to militarily support an expanding, militaristic power (which would be a good definition of an Israel occupying the "entire middle east?")

How exactly would Israel (taking into account the limited population referrenced above) control a region of such size, without tactics to make Hitler's SS seem downright gentle?  Why should and would we support such a regime?  Give me one good reason why such a state of Israel (not the current one, folks, the hypothetical one in this instance) should not be destroyed?

Ummmmmmmmm?????


Huh???

I believe the amount of destruction will depend on when the fields are set on fire and how long each country can hold the fields after the act.

Saddam was his usual foolish self in ordering the destruction of the Kuwait fields.  (Remember this is the same Saddam that believed us when we told him he could take Kuwait.)  He told them to set fire but not how to destroy.  Any person competent in both oil field technology and explosives can render those fields useless for at least a year and output will be greatly reduced much longer.

I don't know the geology of the Arab oil fields and specifically I don't know the location (depth, proximity to the oil producing sands, etc.) of salt water but I'm betting that those who manage the fields know all of this and more.

Sabotage of an AR-15, a nuclear submarine or an oil well is not that difficult.  Access is the main problem in conducting any of these operations - not technology - and the Arabs have access.

Every million barrels burned cannot be replaced and new sources take time.  A lot of time.

Ariel and Benjamin are just dumb enough to push this envelope past the point where the U.S. will no longer support Israel.  The appearance of these two idiots on the scene at the same time may well be the answer to many Muslim prayers.

Well Hun ?

It is true that I responded from only the information contained in your original post.

Well HUN ??