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Posted: 3/24/2002 10:04:28 AM EDT
[#1]
NO!
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Posted: 3/24/2002 10:07:04 AM EDT
[#2]
Hell No!
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Posted: 3/24/2002 10:10:39 AM EDT
[#3]
man did i ever mess that thread up guess i cant type. anyway thanks for the advice guys...
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Posted: 3/24/2002 10:10:52 AM EDT
[#4]
there are way too many good ammo options out there to be wasting money on wolf.
for example, you can buy GOOD ammo in bulk for a decent price from ammoman.com. some people buy from Natchez, and others get it from Sportsmans Guide. If your willing to buy 500 rounds at a time, you can get great deals on excellent ammo. |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 10:12:38 AM EDT
[#5]
Many people report bad results with Wolf ranging from poor performance, to Failure to Fires to KBs.
Personally, I haven't had much problem except with FTFs, but why risk it? 1. You should train with what you plan to fight with anyhow, and I'd never fight with Wolf so I don't really use it except experimentally. 2. Some people report that the coating on Wolf gums up chambers. Some people report no problems. Why take the chance? 3. There are plenty of ammo types out there that no one has much bad to say about. Better ammo is better for your AR. That alone should be enough. Try Q3131a or Lake City 00/01. If you want cheaper try the South African battle packs surplus. I think you'll find that more robust ammo is more interesting anyhow. |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 10:13:20 AM EDT
[#6]
Use the search function to look for wolf ammo.There are 2 different opinions here. Either it is the worst ammo available or it is great ammo for the price. I've only had 2 problems with it. Both times it was a bad primer. Other than that I've been impressed with the accuracy considering the price.
Steve |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 10:19:29 AM EDT
[#7]
i guess it's just a difference of opinion on what type of ammo to use.I was going to go halk with a friend of mine on a case of wolf just to try but now i'm having second thoughts....
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Posted: 3/24/2002 10:19:59 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Is wolf ammo gut ammo to use in the AR just to plink away with? NO! And that applies to any gun except well-worn Russki AK-47s in FFW mode. First, it's dirty dirty dirty. Second, even within a single lot, powder load seem to vary to much for my taste (by feel, not measured: Pop, pop, WHAM!, plop, pop). Third, dunno how they do it, but I can shoot almost hole-in-hole with my P38 using nearly any kind of mid-range to high-end commercial ammo, but I am lucky if I hit the target at all with Wolf ammo. Even Turkish milsurp from 1942 seems to be better than Wolf. |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 10:23:43 AM EDT
[#9]
Would someone PLEASE post pictures of this infamous lacquer fouling? I'm sure some hard evidence of this possible urban myth would be appreciated..
Also accuracy testing, from both a machine rest, and practical use? Meplat- |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 10:28:15 AM EDT
[#10]
Well needless to say I won't be buying any wolf ammo....
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Posted: 3/24/2002 10:39:58 AM EDT
[#11]
Well, if you're like me, a poor college student who nearly broke his bank buying an AR-180B, then Wolf ammo is great, it shoots fine, and the extra time you spend cleaning your rifle is a fine excuse for procrastination.
"Shouldn't you be writing that History paper?" "Yeah, when these patches stop coming out black." If anybody could suggest something else in the same price range, that would be great. |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 10:44:27 AM EDT
[#12]
Statistics:
I sell 10 cases of Wolf to one case of everything else. I get one case back out of 1000 cases shipped.It almost never comes back. I guess you guys that badmouth Wolf are the vocal minority.I might also add, Wolf is the reason the other ammo stays cheap. Badmouth it all you want, while most guys save money and Wolf gets rich. GOD BLESS AMERICA. Eric the ammoman |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 10:48:17 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Also accuracy testing, from both a machine rest, and practical use? Meplat- Machine rest, I don't need no stinking machine rest ;) This is from the first time I shot my P38 (ac42): Here the result with Remington UPC Yellow Box [img]http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/remUPC.jpg[/img] and here, the same day, the same distance (25 feet), the same gun, and the same shooter, yours truly: [img]http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/wolf.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 10:50:55 AM EDT
[#14]
Everyone with a .223 trying to shoot Wolf I've ever talked to has nothing but hatred for the ammo, lol.
However, I've shot a shitload through my AKs, without a single problem. It seems plenty accurate to me as well. 2-3" groups at 100 yards with both my MAK90 and SAR1, not even getting all serious about it with a good rest and such. Just resting my elbows on the bench... I've also 500 rnds of their 9mm stuff through my Taurus 92AF. All in one sitting, functioned and shot 100%. Seemed fairly accurate to me as well... Maybe the AR15 is just too finicky for Wolf. |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 11:06:13 AM EDT
[#15]
Never had a problem with my Bushy and why pay for brass when you are not reloading?
Try a few boxes and see how you like it. It is just too much of a bargain not to try out a few boxes. Also some of the alternatives mentioned, like South African, PMC & Q3131A are discouraged by manufacturers like DPMS |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 11:20:29 AM EDT
[#16]
You know, I here this all of the time on this forum. Everyone is anti-Wolf ammo. Yet, I open up Soldier of Fortune magazine or hang around the AK sites, and they all raved about the ammo. They both said it was high quality stuff. I haven't bought any yet; I'm still using my Q3131A batch I bought awhile ago. If I get that AK though, that's (Wolf or Barnual) probably what I'll be shooting out of my gun 100% of the time, because American ammo is grossly overpriced compared to Wolf or Barnual.
themao [chainsawkill] |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 11:23:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Only stick with 5.45 and 7.62 from our Russian friends. WTH do they know about 5.56!?!
I am still surprised by all the guys who want a 5.56 AK... |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 11:36:11 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Only stick with 5.45 and 7.62 from our Russian friends. WTH do they know about 5.56!?! I am still surprised by all the guys who want a 5.56 AK... Why not? 5.56 is ballistically superior to both 5.45 and 7.62 in a variety of ways. You could essentially have the reliability and ruggedness of an AK yet with the stopping power of .223. The AK-101 (.223 AK) is lighter than a Galil or Valmet too, yet it is probably just as accurate...especially with that excellent muzzle brake. I think a .223 is AK is the best of both worlds. Now, if we could legally import stuff again, the Sig 550 assault rifle would suit the needs of both the pro-AR and AK people. It essentially runs on an AK gas operating system, yet has all the nice western ergonomics and features. themao [chainsawkill] |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 11:37:47 AM EDT
[#19]
Well I hear both good and bad of wolf ammo
the good being that it is cheap ammo to use the bad of it is that it gums up the barrel.But if you dont mind spending the extra time cleaning your gun then fine..Well I guess I know what to do then......Not to buy any...not that I dont mind cleaning my gun but if I go out to shoot,then i must take both my AR and my mini14 |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 11:50:49 AM EDT
[#20]
Kar98- So what does that prove?
1- what was the projectile weight on the UMC? Pulled and weighed it? 2- Same on the Wolf.. Why, you ask? I own a BYF-42 P-38. Guess what? It dosen't shoot 115 grain 9X19 worth a damn.. Feed it 124 grain ammo, near ANY 124 grain 9X19 ammo, and it's very happy. Nice groups, reliable, etc.. Shooting for tested accuracy without a rest yields nothing. Again, can ANYONE post hard evidence of this ammo's failing? Not "I had it smell funny", or "it jammed my gun". I want real data.How clean was the weapon, had it been firing reliably immediately before using Wolf/Barnaul, etc.. Magazines? Temprature? The logic "Would you put cheap gas in your hotrod" is pure fertilizer as well. It DOES NOT APPLY here. Is a company which has made ammo for over a century going to suddenly forget EVERYTHING and intentionally make a shitty product for sale to some of the most capricious and spoiled consumers on the planet? I don't think so. Yes, it smells funny, yes it is a bitch to use strippers with, yes it leaves a black residue. But is it crap? Hardly. I want proof of this ammo failing. Meplat- |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 11:55:54 AM EDT
[#21]
I just got the 2700 round tub of South African from Sportmans Guide, delivered for 10 cents a pop (using the 10% off coupon listed on another thread). Wolf isn't always the cheapest.
Todd in Louisville [email protected] |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 12:11:47 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Kar98- So what does that prove? 1- what was the projectile weight on the UMC? Pulled and weighed it? 2- Same on the Wolf.. [img]http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/boxes.jpg[/img] All 115grain, according to the box. Why, you ask? I own a BYF-42 P-38. Guess what? It dosen't shoot 115 grain 9X19 worth a damn.. What do you mean by that? FTF? FTE? FTC? Did you ever replace the recoil springs? They _do_ wear out. Also, MecGar or however they spell themselves makes nice mags for the P38, haven't failed me yet. Shooting for tested accuracy without a rest yields nothing. I wouldn't quite say "nothing", but I _do_ have a pretty steady hand ;) The logic "Would you put cheap gas in your hotrod" is pure fertilizer as well. It DOES NOT APPLY here. Since you brought it up...why not? Is a company which has made ammo for over a century going to suddenly forget EVERYTHING and intentionally make a shitty product for sale to some of the most capricious and spoiled consumers on the planet? Oh don't start on me with Russian craftsmanship or pride in their products. Neither exists. |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 12:46:50 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Statistics: I sell 10 cases of Wolf to one case of everything else. I get one case back out of 1000 cases shipped.It almost never comes back. I guess you guys that badmouth Wolf are the vocal minority.I might also add, Wolf is the reason the other ammo stays cheap. Badmouth it all you want, while most guys save money and Wolf gets rich. GOD BLESS AMERICA. Eric the ammoman I think that is a pretty good endorsement. If that is not enough, then I will add that I love the stuff, that should settle it [:D]. |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 12:57:02 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Never had a problem with my Bushy and why pay for brass when you are not reloading? Try a few boxes and see how you like it. It is just too much of a bargain not to try out a few boxes. Also some of the alternatives mentioned, like South African, PMC & Q3131A are discouraged by manufacturers like DPMS So don't use DPMS rifles. Personally, I'd not buy anything that didn't eat milspec ammo without burping and I've never heard that about DPMS- seems silly that a mostly milspec AR15 (DPMS has a milspec chamber anyhow so far as I know) would have a problem with milspec ammo. Care to provide a citation because I can't find a reference to this anywhere...? |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 1:11:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Well I hear both good and bad of wolf ammo the good being that it is cheap ammo to use the bad of it is that it gums up the barrel.But if you dont mind spending the extra time cleaning your gun then fine..Well I guess I know what to do then......Not to buy any... Exactly. To the guy who asked, give the stuff a try. If it sucks in your rifle you're out 5 bucks and some extra time with a cleaning rod. Whoo-hoo. As far as I'm concerned, the cartridge goes in, a bit of lead comes out, and it makes a hole in what I'm pointing at, plus it's cheap and easy to find. I mean, this guy wants to go plinking, not win a target shooting award. |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 1:17:37 PM EDT
[#26]
I bought a 1000 rnd case of .223 about two years ago and just finished it up a month ago. I use my reloads 90% of the time but some days I just don't feel like packing the screen brass catcher and all that other hassle that comes with saving your brass. So right there is one advantage to Wolf. Out of that 1k I had zero FTF's. No failures due to fouling at all either.
It shoots the same POI as my Sierra 52 gr. and 23 gr. of H322 reloads but an inch or two worst in group size at 100 yrds. Get some Wolf for plinking. Some people may have had a problem with Wolf's QC but the vast majority are just repeating what they read the last "How's Wolf Ammo" thread without any first hand knowledge on the subject. Mark |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 1:55:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Is wolf ammo gut ammo to use in the AR just to plink away with? Guess that depends. I have a 7.62X39 AR upper that has at least 3K of Wolf through it without a problem. The Oly 9mm upper has had 5K through it, same thing. Neither one one of these uppers has seen a brass cased round. That said, I have never shot one round of Wolf in any of my .223 uppers. |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 4:29:56 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Would someone PLEASE post pictures of this infamous lacquer fouling? I'm sure some hard evidence of this possible urban myth would be appreciated.. Also accuracy testing, from both a machine rest, and practical use? Meplat- I want the lot # of ammunition used with a mean blueprint of a sample of at least 20 random cartridge cases. The chamber shall have a casting made. I want a print of the reamer or mandrel(hammer forging) used to make the chamber. The machine rest must be serial numbered and approved by on of the following: the SAAMI, the Army Markmanship Unit or other branch equivalent, anyone who's been to Aberdene including their mother or favorite farm animal. Exterior ballistic conditions shall be controlled by using an undergound range with minimum distance of 300 meters. Then, and only then! will I consider your fool hardy opinion. I just couldn't resist on this one.[}:D] Doug |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 6:11:01 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Quoted: Never had a problem with my Bushy and why pay for brass when you are not reloading? Try a few boxes and see how you like it. It is just too much of a bargain not to try out a few boxes. Also some of the alternatives mentioned, like South African, PMC & Q3131A are discouraged by manufacturers like DPMS So don't use DPMS rifles. Personally, I'd not buy anything that didn't eat milspec ammo without burping and I've never heard that about DPMS- seems silly that a mostly milspec AR15 (DPMS has a milspec chamber anyhow so far as I know) would have a problem with milspec ammo. Care to provide a citation because I can't find a reference to this anywhere...? I have been using Wolf ammo for years and have had no problems. I actually have never had any ammo problems except with one lot of .45 Wolf and one commercial .308 cartridge that ripped in half. |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 6:46:34 PM EDT
[#30]
I have not had any problems with 5.56 Wolf because I haven't had the nerve to try it.
I have, however, had plenty of problems with .45 ACP Wolf in my USP Match. A few failures to fire, a few failures to feed (due to laquer build up) and a BUNCH of failures to extract. During the latter, when fired, the slide would go back without the spent shell and strip a new round from the mag, basically resulting in a double feed. In every case, a cleaning rod was needed to knock the shell that was glued in with laquer out of the chamber. I'm lucky that I never broke an extractor on that crap. In the case of the failures to feed: The gun would go almost completely into battery, but it was out just enough that the hammer wouldn't drop. Thankfully this wasn't a Glock. A hard rap on the rear of the slide usually solved the problem. That gun functions flawlessly with Aguila, PMC, UMC, S&B, Remington and several other brands I've tried. Because of that experience with Wolf, I won't touch the stuff for anything except my SAR-2. I also wholeheartily agree with Tatjana in that you should train with whatever brand ammo you plan on using in a crisis scenario. My life and my AR's are simply not worth me buying cheap ammunition. I'll stick to SA, LC, and Q3131A. And no, meplat, I don't have any photos to back this up. This occured 2 years ago, so you'll just have to take my word for it. Fertilizer and all. [rolleyes] |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 10:20:56 PM EDT
[#31]
I too have had NO failure to fire problems with the Wolf ammo. Shooting for me was pretty consistant.
-------HOWEVER------- That gummy crap is NASTY! it cant be all that good for the rifle. I do believe though that as long as Wolf Ammo is out there it will keep sales competition alive and keep the prices down. I dont know when AR's will be allowed to be sold again here in CA and I would rather not chance damaging my rifle with something so trivial as spending a dollar more for a box of ammo. |
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Posted: 3/24/2002 11:11:09 PM EDT
[#32]
Shoot it in 2 SKS's , WASR-10 , Bushmaster A3 Flattop car. NEVER had a hiccup, never a lacquer problem (besides Lacquer THINNER is cheap too! [:D] Can't wait for it to come out in 308 for my FAL!!! NOTE: I clean my guns after each outing!!!!! A good habit to adopt!
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