This is related to Lumpy223's post about stupid gun laws and how as time passes, more and more of these laws are waived for individuals working in certain professions.

This is a short description of the requirements for citizenship in ancient Rome:

Citizenship - in Rome was granted to free-born males born to Roman citizen fathers. The idea of citizenship was all-inclusive meaning that women too were also allowed to vote and had similar, but somewhat lesser rights than men. ( In Roman society women were respected and dignified, but they were still considered to be somewhat lesser to men and a women's place was at home.) Citizenship could also be granted for service in the [b]army[/b], for services to the [b]state[/b], or for [b]payment of appropriate sums of money[/b] to various influential officials.

[url]members.aol.com/TeacherNet/RomeFAQ.html#Q6[/url]

Do you think we are moving closer to this model as time passes? That is, those who serve the state or have political or economic influence are granted special privileges?

I kinda get the feeling we are.

Oh, edited to add I mean as official state policy. We already know much of this is true unofficially, but it is not chaptered in law.

It is so much more subtle in this era because you cannot openly discriminate against someone because of race, color or religion. In modern society undesirables are given less freedom based on their credit rating and ability to afford their freedoms.

This is so scary because just last night I was thinking of how long before our time will come. I mean the downfall of America.

History will tell us that all the powerful empires in the past crumbled just when everybody thought that they would not.

America today could be considered Rome centuries ago were trade and political influence flows through its borders and therefore controls it.

Just like Rome, we are hated for who we are by those who feel that it should be them who should be us. We have enemies everywhere who are just rooting for us to slip and break our backs. We also have friends, so called allies who are just there because we pay them to be.

Come on, think about it. Are we doomed to follow the same fate as those who were there before us???

It would certainly seem that we wish to make the world in our image, much as Rome tried to do. Wouldn't be so bad maybe, except none of the nations we have written Constitutions for have one just like ours! I guess it really doesn't matter though, as our rulers don't pay attention to ours anyhow.....

I use the Bible for my understanding of what will come. In the big throwdown at the end two powerful nations will descend into the plain of Megiddo. Russia and then China. I believe that two cities will be totally destroyed here prior to that, and then we will face a similar destruction to that of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Enemies from outside angered by civil war within. Killing in every direction. The United States will not be there to defend its modern ally Israel because it cannot. Prior to these events temple worship must be restored on the mount.

Darn, I thought this was the announcement of the [b]AR15.com Toga Party[/b]!!!! [:D]

The reasons requiring Revolution are:
1. Equal access to the courts.
2. Equal representation before Congress.
3. Equal access to health care.
4. Equal access to education.
5. Tyranny in government.





Failing peace and love, I have a .45

In addition to the Russkies and ChiComms, do the Moslems play any role in "the big throwdown" or events leading up to it?

I believe we (the United States of America) have reached the point where only 'we' can destroy ourselves.  And I believe we will.

"The Dome of the Rock" is the site at which Moslems believe Mohammed ascended into Heaven. It is built in the center of Jerusalem on the same mount that Abraham ascended to slaughter Isaac. It is called "The Mount of David" because it is the mount that God decided to settle after 480 years from Egypt. Solomon built a temple there containing the "Ark of the Covenant" until it was destroyed by the Babylonians in 600 BC. The Temple was restored by the exiles in about 485 BC by men who "stood in the gap in the wall". Fighting off attacks while laying bricks.
 Christ first taught in the Temple on the Mount at age twelve. He returned there to be judged by men, ( being the Son of God) and was sentenced to death on the cross. He was crucified on a nearby hill. He returned to the Temple in risen form, and later was ascended into Heaven, and now sits at the right hand of God Almighty. In his final week of life his disciples remarked at the marvel of the Herodian Temple in that it had 30 foot long stones cut so accurately that a playing card could not fit into the joints. Christ cried"There is not one stone here that will not be thrown down". In 70 AD after the second Diaspora had left Jerusalem God gave the city over to the fate of Sodom and Gomorrah. Civil disobediance rose, and Rome was angered. Jerusalem was always a tenant state paying tax without occupation. In 68 AD the armies of the Tenth Legion under Vespasian descended on Israel with seige machines knocking down walls of all the frontier cities. In 69AD Vespasian was elected to the office of Caesar by his troops and recalled to Rome. His son Titus was given the job of the seige of Jerusalem. It took nine months to starve out and fight out the million Jews holed up in the walled city. Eventually the Temple was burned by the Jews, much to the horror of Titus. The plunder of Israel was taken to Rome. Eventually Titus became Caesar.

 The sit had been rebuilt many times over the centuries, but never in Temple form. Eventually in 760 or so? the Moslems built a shrine to Mohammed on the site.


The Book of Revelation is very complex, and no one man has the key, by God's design. History is clear when written by those that believe in truth.


San Francisco and Los Angeles are the cities that will be destroyed before the downfall of America. Isn't it obvious? The prophecy of Wormwood seems quite clear on this, however Wormwood itself seems hard to understand. It appears to be an act of God himself.



"In a flash, in a twinkling of the eye, we shall all be changed, and the perishable shall be clothed with the imperishable" Romans 15

After that history lesson you must realize that the Moslems now hold the site from which The Final War will begin.

Thanks, I knew about the Dome of the Rock - I just wondered why you left the Moslems out of your initial description of "the big throwdown".

Back to the USA/Rome thing, I see two BIG similarities, both of which contributed heavily to the fall of Rome.
1) A growing welfare class fed "bread and circus" to keep them happy and lined up behind those in power; and
2) Having proxy armies fight wars.  

Don't forget the notion of "corporate interest". Rome was all about commercial activity. As are we. The Roman legions were used as enforcers and to further the business expansion of Roman interests. Much as our military has been used for many years....

If this is Rome Where are all the Orgies....Darn It!!

This kind of crap has been going on since the stone age.  Nothing new here.

You wanna know about the end of the world?  Greenhouse gases from cows.  [rolleyes]

San Francisco bath houses. Be thankful you missed them.........

The apocalypse is not something which is coming. The apocalypse has arrived in major portions of the planet

Amen!

And when the apostles ask him "Master when will these things take place, Jesus answered "I tell you that none of you shall parish before these things begin"

He was saying that the end of time began with his resurrection.

My 2 cents:

I have been pointing this out to my wife for years.  The "circus" was football and other sports (Simulated combat) and has recently moved on to more titillating real-life scenarios like "Survivor," "The Chamber", "Temptation Island," "The Mole," "Fear Factor," "Murder in Small Town X," "The Amazing Race," "Big Brother," and the various Seals vs. SWAT shows.  My point is this:  Bigger, scarier, riskier, goofier "reality" shows are being aired so that everyone can live interesting lives through the misadventures of "regular" people in a television show.  This is much like the arena, without all the blood.  The silliness begins when the backstabbing is done with "votes" vs. a gladius.

At least the Romans reduced the population in the process.  (Ooops..could get some flames from that one)

What next to distract the masses from the REAL reality?

-White Horse

Just for the record.  I have been to Rome and saw the Flavian Ampetheatre (Colloseum sp?) and the Circus Maximus...impressive.  Contrary to popular belief, the Christians were only killed in the Circus, not in the Ampetheatre.

Be assured that when the fall happens "Et tu Brute" will be a common realization here.

He he, you guys are all text book examples of how fucked up the US educational system is...

They still use Gibbons "Rise and Fall.." as their basis, which is a bunch of bullshit.

Roman civilization didnt end in 410, it endured till 1454. Even the Republic lasted some 450 years c590BC to 44BC. The Empire did much better- 28BC to 1454AD. The "fall" didn't even BEGIN untill 1071AD and took almost 4 full centuries to execute.

I can only hope that the United States does as well. We seem to be leaning toward the path of what happened to Great Britan, who was a world power for little more than 200 years before falling back into being just another European principality.  We should look harder at how Rome and Byzantium conducted their affairs, rather than following the failed pattern of modern England.

I take it you've never been to college??

Possibly.  It's a sticky situation, no doubt about it.  For those who follow this sort of thing, the Temple Mount Faithful are scheduled to bring a model of the Third Temple to the Temple Mount sometime this week if memory serves.

The two things that will do this country in are quite simple if you look for just a moment. First there is a rapidly growing lack of personal responsibility. It is increasingly someone elses fault that we do the things we do. Second is the emerging elitist line of thought. More and more of our population lacks the ability to humble themselves to one another, and as such there is a tremendous lack of respect for our fellow man.

I realize that this is kind of a blanket statement, and it obviously does not apply to all. I appologize for any preaching to the choir, but this is the emergent attitude among the younger generations in this country as I see it.

[soapbox]