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Posted: 3/14/2014 12:19:34 AM EDT
CAT 3306 engine on a D8H 46A powershift tractor. 2 pistons like this (3 and 4). The 2 affected pistons and liners have since been replaced and tractor is just parked in the yard ATM. Came across the pistons while cleaning and figured I'd ask here. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 12:25:23 AM EDT
[#1]
Looks like you buried it in sandy ground and hit it with a shovel alot in an attempt to dig it back up.
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Posted: 3/14/2014 12:27:17 AM EDT
[#2]
It almost looks like they were in a bunch of explosions!
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Posted: 3/14/2014 12:31:26 AM EDT
[#3]
Detonation is a mutha
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Posted: 3/14/2014 12:35:53 AM EDT
[#4]
Haha yeah, I'm still scratching my head on this so I figured I'd ask here!
Detonation? Do diesel engines detonate? Under what conditions? Honestly don't know, I always thought detonation was a gas engine problem. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 12:41:27 AM EDT
[#5]
Do you ever use ether to get it started? Too much ether can cause pre detonation in a diesel engine.
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Posted: 3/14/2014 12:41:31 AM EDT
[#6]
Thats what diesel engines do is detonate, thats how they work.
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Posted: 3/14/2014 12:44:57 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thats what diesel engines do is detonate, thats how they work. Did you put gasoline in it by mistake? |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 12:45:19 AM EDT
[#8]
Looks like they were running super lean.
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Posted: 3/14/2014 12:47:00 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thats what diesel engines do is detonate, thats how they work. Haha yeah, well, you know what I meant.
No, we did not use starting fluid on this engine on a regular basis. Once or twice maybe. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 12:51:17 AM EDT
[#10]
Not run on gasoline ever. Everything in the yard is diesel and that's the only fuel there.
Is running lean on a diesel same as on a gas engine in that it causes things like this? |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 12:53:25 AM EDT
[#11]
I'm more interested in those Toffee Macs.
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Posted: 3/14/2014 1:14:13 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Detonation is a mutha There is a precombustion chamber that points to a harder area in the center of the piston. I would guess something really fucked up in the fuel. Never seen that. I run 3 D-8H 46a's. And maintain 3 D-9's. I have never seen anything like that. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 1:15:28 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like they were running super lean. Nope. Fuel is the throttle control. I would re-examine your fuel situation thoroughy before running anything else. Do you have any enemies? |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 1:20:24 AM EDT
[#14]
Looks like too wide of a ring gap.
 
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Posted: 3/14/2014 1:22:28 AM EDT
[#15]
Only thing even close was a piston that survived one rebuild and had been running for probably twenty summers. Area around the heat plug had worn down sort of like that and a tiny triangular shaped piece broke through. It pressured up the crankcase and sent the dipstick flying never to be found.
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Posted: 3/14/2014 1:24:14 AM EDT
[#16]
I did the same thing to a 85 VW quantum turbo diesel, just because it will do 100 MPH does not mean you should. It was running great, then I let off the throttle, and slowed down, when I got back into it, there was no one home. Barely ran on the remaining 3 cylinders. Uppon tear down had one piston like that, and all the rings were, flat gone, I mean worn away in spots, or down to 30 thou thick inside to outside.
speed |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 1:25:37 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nope. Fuel is the throttle control. I would re-examine your fuel situation thoroughy before running anything else. Do you have any enemies? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Looks like they were running super lean. Nope. Fuel is the throttle control. I would re-examine your fuel situation thoroughy before running anything else. Do you have any enemies? No butterfly to control airflow? |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 1:28:03 AM EDT
[#18]
Fuel timing is off a bit or you used more starting fluid than is wise.
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Posted: 3/14/2014 1:29:25 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No butterfly to control airflow? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like they were running super lean. Nope. Fuel is the throttle control. I would re-examine your fuel situation thoroughy before running anything else. Do you have any enemies? No butterfly to control airflow? No. That isn't how a diesel works. Fuel controls engine speed and power. Air is not metered. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 1:31:47 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No butterfly to control airflow? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like they were running super lean. Nope. Fuel is the throttle control. I would re-examine your fuel situation thoroughy before running anything else. Do you have any enemies? No butterfly to control airflow? Nope. Overspeeding could be a possibility, I run my cats at 7/8ths throttle, they seem overpowered anyway. Always check your rpm's. A worn out torque converter could make you feel under powered, but the engine should handle full throttle fine, and overspeeding should be obvious. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 1:33:23 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fuel timing is off a bit or you used more starting fluid than is wise. Detonation knock would be obvious to all but the most oblivious. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 1:39:08 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Detonation knock would be obvious to all but the most oblivious. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Fuel timing is off a bit or you used more starting fluid than is wise. Detonation knock would be obvious to all but the most oblivious. Not busting on the op but... if he doesn't know that there isn't a butterfly controlling the airflow that he might also not recognize the signs of detonation. Witness the damage now. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 1:43:36 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not busting on the op but... if he doesn't know that there isn't a butterfly controlling the airflow that he might also not recognize the signs of detonation. Witness the damage now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fuel timing is off a bit or you used more starting fluid than is wise. Detonation knock would be obvious to all but the most oblivious. Not busting on the op but... if he doesn't know that there isn't a butterfly controlling the airflow that he might also not recognize the signs of detonation. Witness the damage now. Yeah, but why the middle two? Closest to the air source? Starting fluid? Or some jackass using gas as starting fluid? I have heard of that on an operation where the owner didn't allow ether, but the cat's had gas on them because they still had pony motors. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 1:44:09 AM EDT
[#24]
Could be a leaking injector. Too much fuel at high load could do that. I was going to ask if you ran a tuner chip, but it obviously isn't in a pickup. Too much fuel is what usually burns pistons
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Posted: 3/14/2014 1:46:13 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No butterfly to control airflow? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like they were running super lean. Nope. Fuel is the throttle control. I would re-examine your fuel situation thoroughy before running anything else. Do you have any enemies? No butterfly to control airflow? That was not the op asking that, I was. I have 25 years in internal combustion experience, but slim to none of that in diesel. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 1:57:46 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, but why the middle two? Closest to the air source? Starting fluid? Or some jackass using gas as starting fluid? I have heard of that on an operation where the owner didn't allow ether, but the cat's had gas on them because they still had pony motors. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fuel timing is off a bit or you used more starting fluid than is wise. Detonation knock would be obvious to all but the most oblivious. Not busting on the op but... if he doesn't know that there isn't a butterfly controlling the airflow that he might also not recognize the signs of detonation. Witness the damage now. Yeah, but why the middle two? Closest to the air source? Starting fluid? Or some jackass using gas as starting fluid? I have heard of that on an operation where the owner didn't allow ether, but the cat's had gas on them because they still had pony motors. I work in fleet maintenance.... some of the things I see people do to engines doesn't even surprise me anymore. Not saying the op did anything wrong. As to why? As you said closest to the direct air supply flow is a good guys as any. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 2:01:01 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Could be a leaking injector. Too much fuel at high load could do that. I was going to ask if you ran a tuner chip, but it obviously isn't in a pickup. Too much fuel is what usually burns pistons Yeah, hanging injectors spilling fuel. But, I guess I just assume that people listen to their engines. The hanging injectors I have had produced an audible knock that I could pinpoint to a cylinder before it caused damage. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 2:03:24 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Could be a leaking injector. Too much fuel at high load could do that. I was going to ask if you ran a tuner chip, but it obviously isn't in a pickup. Too much fuel is what usually burns pistons This..... Bad injector over fueling the cylinder will cook the piston. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 2:05:22 AM EDT
[#29]
I hope we gave enough of a headache for one night, OP.
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Posted: 3/14/2014 2:09:44 AM EDT
[#30]
Hope they replaced the injectors on those cylinders.
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Posted: 3/14/2014 2:11:39 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hope they replaced the injectors on those cylinders. Yeah, when I rebuild, I replace them all as a matter of SOP. I soak the take outs in kroil for a while and separate out the ones that test well for emergency backup. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 2:33:30 AM EDT
[#32]
Are you working on a 46A series D8 or a 3306 engine ? That series machine did not have a 3306 engine in it. You problem by the picture is a dripping injector. When the fuel is injected from a bad injector tip it doesn1t atomize with a spray pattern, it drips fuel that acts like acid dissolving the piston eventually ending up with what you have and also starts to sieze up as he lower rings are doing.
We always checked any nozzles we replaced on those engines if the bag they came in when ordered because they were well known to be bad right off the shelf. If the bag was open, you knew the tested them already from the dealer. The only item I never had apart on those old tractors was the injection pump. They were probably one of the most reliable machines Cat ever produced. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 2:51:43 AM EDT
[#33]
EGT's got to high. Check cyclinder wall make sure its good, replace pistons, make sure head is good.
looks like you were running lean as fuck. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 3:19:31 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you working on a 46A series D8 or a 3306 engine ? That series machine did not have a 3306 engine in it. You problem by the picture is a dripping injector. When the fuel is injected from a bad injector tip it doesn1t atomize with a spray pattern, it drips fuel that acts like acid dissolving the piston eventually ending up with what you have and also starts to sieze up as he lower rings are doing. We always checked any nozzles we replaced on those engines if the bag they came in when ordered because they were well known to be bad right off the shelf. If the bag was open, you knew the tested them already from the dealer. The only item I never had apart on those old tractors was the injection pump. They were probably one of the most reliable machines Cat ever produced. Yeah, one time I got three of six bad new from cat. I have had better luck with aftermarket. Don't remember brand. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 3:24:18 AM EDT
[#35]
Face it OP, you were drag racing werent you.
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Posted: 3/14/2014 3:38:47 AM EDT
[#36]
Looks like over fueling to me...And by the looks of that piston your liner is toast.
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Posted: 3/14/2014 3:49:40 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like over fueling to me...And by the looks of that piston your liner is toast. Yep, notice the damage is on the exhaust side of the piston, lol. Ever been to the AFA courses in Peoria. Jim Rickey is the man! |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 3:56:09 AM EDT
[#38]
Aluminum does that when it gets too hot. Along with injection timing, injection quantity/leaking, you should check piston cooling. If the oil supply to the crown cooling jets gets blocked, things like this happen. Since there were a pair of affected pistons, the cooling oil issue is most likely. Unlikely two adjacent injectors had the same problem.
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Posted: 3/14/2014 3:59:00 AM EDT
[#39]
Good guess, but there are no piston cooling nozzles used on that engine.
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Posted: 3/14/2014 4:04:38 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Detonation is a mutha It doesn't exist in a diesel. You got gas in your truck. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 4:07:23 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Could be a leaking injector. Too much fuel at high load could do that. I was going to ask if you ran a tuner chip, but it obviously isn't in a pickup. Too much fuel is what usually burns pistons This. It is overfueling damage. This is a diesel, not a gasser. You have to go to a turbo if you want more power in a diesel in order to keep temps down. More power still? You need an intercooler. OP's engine is dumping more fuel on the burned pistons than on the others. Get your injectors and pump checked. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 4:09:12 AM EDT
[#42]
Tagged, because I'm curious what my BIL thinks (diesel mechanic, heavy equipment).
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Posted: 3/14/2014 4:10:13 AM EDT
[#43]
Excessive use of starter fluid
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Posted: 3/14/2014 4:12:18 AM EDT
[#44]
meh. Some JB Weld will fix that right up.
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Posted: 3/14/2014 4:12:31 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. It is overfueling damage. This is a diesel, not a gasser. You have to go to a turbo if you want more power in a diesel in order to keep temps down. More power still? You need an intercooler. OP's engine is dumping more fuel on the burned pistons than on the others. Get your injectors and pump checked. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Could be a leaking injector. Too much fuel at high load could do that. I was going to ask if you ran a tuner chip, but it obviously isn't in a pickup. Too much fuel is what usually burns pistons This. It is overfueling damage. This is a diesel, not a gasser. You have to go to a turbo if you want more power in a diesel in order to keep temps down. More power still? You need an intercooler. OP's engine is dumping more fuel on the burned pistons than on the others. Get your injectors and pump checked. You forgot that when you want even more power you get propane Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 4:13:09 AM EDT
[#46]
This happened about two years ago and during the time I was going nuts trying to figure it out...now that I came across the pistons, it got me wondering again lol!
I did hear that diesels are opposite of gassers in that over-fueling causes high EGT's that could cause this? I dd have the injectors rebuilt when I fixed this. But the rebuilders did not see anything obviously wrong though. Never noticed it sounding different except the usual diesel motor sound...though most of the time operators run it, not me. Oh, and someone posted its not a 3306, I think you're right , I think it's a lower series D342. Had a starting engine but converted it over to an electric starter. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 4:13:56 AM EDT
[#47]
water in fuel, leans it out
high EGTs
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Posted: 3/14/2014 4:16:29 AM EDT
[#48]
Over fueling. You must have something pouring in more fuel than the pistons can handle.
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Posted: 3/14/2014 4:16:34 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. It is overfueling damage. This is a diesel, not a gasser. You have to go to a turbo if you want more power in a diesel in order to keep temps down. More power still? You need an intercooler. OP's engine is dumping more fuel on the burned pistons than on the others. Get your injectors and pump checked. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Could be a leaking injector. Too much fuel at high load could do that. I was going to ask if you ran a tuner chip, but it obviously isn't in a pickup. Too much fuel is what usually burns pistons This. It is overfueling damage. This is a diesel, not a gasser. You have to go to a turbo if you want more power in a diesel in order to keep temps down. More power still? You need an intercooler. OP's engine is dumping more fuel on the burned pistons than on the others. Get your injectors and pump checked. |
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Posted: 3/14/2014 4:17:14 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, but why the middle two? Closest to the air source? Starting fluid? Or some jackass using gas as starting fluid? I have heard of that on an operation where the owner didn't allow ether, but the cat's had gas on them because they still had pony motors. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Fuel timing is off a bit or you used more starting fluid than is wise. Detonation knock would be obvious to all but the most oblivious. Not busting on the op but... if he doesn't know that there isn't a butterfly controlling the airflow that he might also not recognize the signs of detonation. Witness the damage now. Yeah, but why the middle two? Closest to the air source? Starting fluid? Or some jackass using gas as starting fluid? I have heard of that on an operation where the owner didn't allow ether, but the cat's had gas on them because they still had pony motors. |
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