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Posted: 10/27/2021 8:27:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: The_Beer_Slayer]
This is now the active "shit News links, thanks to BerettaGuy: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: LINKS TO UKRAINIAN NEWS SOURCES IN ENGLISH Kyiv Post Ukrainian News UKRInform EUROMAIDEN PRESS New Voice of Ukraine Kyiv Independent Ukraine World InterFax Ukraine UATV Ukrainian Journal Official Website of the President of Ukraine Ukrainian Ministry of Defense Save these links. I can't post all the headlines like I've done in the past - too much news and too often. Please @ me with additional stuff to be added here. I don't currently have time to properly curate this thread otherwise. New news link c/o berettaguy: Ukrainian Pravda https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/ Stop fake, anti - disinformation site: https://www.stopfake.org/en/main/ |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:08:42 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Papposilenus: It's not so simple. You're opinion seems based on trying to predict the future. Here is an option Russia secures the two separatist oblasts in the coming days. Russia finishes clearing the AZOV battalion. Russia and Ukraine then return to peace talks. Ukraine cedes control over the separatists oblasts and Crimea (which by the way were major hurdles to joining NATO) and Russia leaves the rest of Ukraine. -Russia "beat the Nazis" and obtained land -Ukraine continues to exist and solved its civil war and can join NATO and EU. While I'm certain this isn't the outcome Ukraine or Russia wanted, it's a possibility, no nukes were needed and Western support halted the creation of another Putin Puppet state. Am I right, who know. We might all die in nuclear fire next week, but your certainty is incorrect. There are plenty of possible outcomes. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Papposilenus: Originally Posted By FALFOX: Originally Posted By TTTSNB: if you also mean to say that we should shrink away from WW3, I would disagree with that. Russia hasn't changed from the evil bastards they were over the last 100 years and are proving themselves a blight on the face of the Earth. I think the position early in the war was that UKR wasn't our business too much and we could tolerate atrocities by secluding RUS from the West, but it is becoming apparent they are genocidal expansionists and further such incursions are inevitable. Let the natural conclusion come even if it is WW3, we can't be held hostage with a threat of nuclear war. if it comes it that, it comes to that. they won't win. is it worth it? that has been the question so far. the answer is increasingly tilting toward Yes. actually it would be better to get it over with now. they will have more and better nuclear armaments in a few years. It's not so simple. You're opinion seems based on trying to predict the future. Here is an option Russia secures the two separatist oblasts in the coming days. Russia finishes clearing the AZOV battalion. Russia and Ukraine then return to peace talks. Ukraine cedes control over the separatists oblasts and Crimea (which by the way were major hurdles to joining NATO) and Russia leaves the rest of Ukraine. -Russia "beat the Nazis" and obtained land -Ukraine continues to exist and solved its civil war and can join NATO and EU. While I'm certain this isn't the outcome Ukraine or Russia wanted, it's a possibility, no nukes were needed and Western support halted the creation of another Putin Puppet state. Am I right, who know. We might all die in nuclear fire next week, but your certainty is incorrect. There are plenty of possible outcomes. You’re leaving out a major issue. Russia has publicly stated and their state news organizations are running stories on the inability for Ukraine to exist as a people. Russia is pushing this in their country BIG TIME currently, that Ukraine CANNOT exist. Russia stating it’s over or stopping hostilities without destroying or taking all of Ukraine would make Russia appear to backtrack or lose face based on the current public campaign and push in Russia (to pit the populace against Ukrainians…..as they are having to mobilize them to fight). Russia can no longer compromise on Ukraine without appearing to lose to their population. Despots cannot have that occur. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:10:59 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83:
That has to be the second most satisfying clip of the war so far, after that clip of the Ka-52 getting schwacked by a Stinger.  |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:12:06 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By macros73: Trump sounds a lot like some of the Putinistas in this thread. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By macros73: Originally Posted By rca2222: Did this get posted yet? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/176088/FQqPzxWWUAYrGXc_jpg-2354354.JPG Trump sounds a lot like some of the Putinistas in this thread. He's a businessman. He lives for "the deal." He met with little Rocketman in N. Korea. He met with ISIS/Al Qaeda leaders in Afghanistan. He also brokered a historical peace deal in the middle east. For him, it's NEVER too late to work something out. Sometimes that trait can be a good thing. Other times, not so much. No matter what his personal feelings about the matter are, he's walking a very fine line, politically, right now. Conservatives are once again split on a big issue as we come into an election cycle. If he comes out in strong support of Ukraine and condemns Russis, he immediately loses a majority (as far as I can tell) of his conservative supporters. At the same time, there is still a significant percentage of conservatives who are decidedly pro-Ukraine, and he needs them, too. Trump also spent his 4 years trying to get us OUT of foriegn conflicts. His take on Russia/Ukraine really shouldn't be surprising to anyone. The conservatives would not be anywhere near as split on this issue if covid had not happened. The knee-jerk belief that the opposite of whatever the .Gov and media is saying must be true is a direct result of Covid and the govt's mishandling of it, and the massive social media disinformation campaign on both sides of the issue. I don't think that division and polarization being caused just before this invasion is a coincidence. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:13:11 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FrankyRay: Trump needs to go away. Russia needs to be defeated and its people humiliated and ashamed for generations. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FrankyRay: Originally Posted By rca2222: Did this get posted yet? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/176088/FQqPzxWWUAYrGXc_jpg-2354354.JPG Trump needs to go away. Russia needs to be defeated and its people humiliated and ashamed for generations. Furthermore they did try to negotiate and it was unsurprisingly a waste of time. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:16:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xmission: It's weird. I haven't met or talked to anyone who supports russia on this. All of my friends are pro UKR and fuck russia. Same here. Nobody I work with. Nobody in the neighborhood. None of my high school or college friends on FB. It's all, "Go Ukraine." |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:18:00 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: The older equipment is less reliable, harder to get running and harder to keep running. Less likely to have usable parts laying around. Less likely to have people who can work on it due to Russias turn over. Also, the Ukraine isn’t Russias only hotspot they’re dealing with. They still have to maintain a force across their country. If they commit everything they have to the Ukrainian battle field, they’ll be extremely weak elsewhere. Also, cost vs reward. If Russia blows 30+ years of ammo, vehicles and man power in this war. They’re going to be useless for 30-40 years. No longer a major threat. Just another bunch of idiots with nukes, essentially, a bigger Pakistani or North Korea. Isolate, alone, with a dying population. Russia can’t sustain this forever, neither can the Ukraine. But currently, the Ukrainian military is making the orcs bleed by a casual estimate of about 3.5 deaths to 1 death. The Ukraine doesn’t have 350,000 people to throw at this militarily. But Russia isn’t going to lose 1m men and equipment over it either. Russia has a bleed out point. We just don’t know where it’s at yet. 50k? 100k? 200k? Add in approximately 3x the wounded. 50k deaths would also mean 150k wounded / captured. As Russias more experienced forces get killed off, their casualties are going to climb faster and faster. Older equipment, supplies, etc just means they’re going to have more casualties faster. The more this war drags on. The more helicopters fall out of the sky from lack of maintenance. More planes crash from bad tires. Etc. Where is Russia’s bleed out point? As throwing all 1.2m men into this grinder isn’t going to happen. I agree with this. Russia is shooting their whole wad at Ukraine. Reminds me of Germany in Bastogne, Battle of the Bulge: expending their last intact units then having to rely on 12yo boys and 60yo pensioners to defend Berlin. I hope Russia is taking this into account. Their pain threshold and tolerance for losses seem bottomless (stupid orc's) but there must be a bottom somewhere. Probably around 200K KIA. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:18:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wyomingnick: I get that, I was never pro Russia at all but in the beginning I didn't really understand some of the history with Ukraine and the dynamics of the Maidan revolt and their attempts to break free from Russian influence. I think I have a much better handle on it now after reading and watching stuff for a month. I want Russia to lose, but at the same time am concerned about the possibility of WW3 because I don't trust my government to be prepared to win it. I kinda feel the best option right now is just to let Ukraine fight and supply them with what they need. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wyomingnick: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By FALFOX: I have been avoiding posting here because I know it will likely turn into a pissing match, and no one wants that. However, I need to say my piece. A great many of you have lost your fucking minds. Listen, I'm a cold war kid - I love seeing Russian tanks go boom just like everybody in here. I want Russia to lose this war. But they're not going to. Why? Because they are all in. They are about to roll over the fucking country, moving city to city, pounding them with MLRS and turning them into rubble one after the other, and the only question now is whether the world is willing to risk nuclear war to stop them. We are damned if we do, and the Ukes are damned if we don't. Hell they may pop tac nukes just out of spite, and if it seems like they are losing you can be effin SURE they will crack open that canned sunshine. UKRAINE. CANNOT. WIN. THIS.  So. What then. World War 3? Sorry, but my answer is YES. Unless some kind of miracle happens and Putin is deposed, the options remain either Ukraine is subject to a crushing defeat or Poland/NATO intervenes and we are in WW3. OK, there is another possible scenario, we pour weapons into Ukraine and draw Russia into a terrible quagmire, and they somehow brainlessly spend the next 3 or 4 years wasting the entirety of their armed forces beating their heads against a javelin anvil, Ukraine is turned into a wasteland that would make wartorn Syria look inviting, and nearly every man, woman, and child still in the country dies in a twenty-first century reprise of the Holodomor. So WW3 it is. I'm predicting it. I give it two more months, and it will go nuclear within weeks of Nato stepping in. Maybe days. Prepare yourselves.  Your take is well understood, and the majority of Arfcom shares it. My take was the same as yours initially as well. I heard nothing but comments from analysts and experts about how quickly Ukraine would fall, and how it was powerless to do so. Those same people also said that the Russian buildup was a bluff to keep Ukraine out of Nato. But then Ukraine stood up. I took the opportunity to learn more about the country and its people. I found out that Ukraine is kind of like the “Texas of Europe”. They were rapidly pushing back against corruption in recent years, pushing to westernize. Looking to be free. And here comes Russia, and the brutality and horror they imposed, unprovoked. They also showed how vulnerable they are. I grew up in the cold war too. And I had expected a conflict to come any time. I also remember how many hundreds of thousands of Americans have died at the hands of the Russians and their proxies and the cold war itself. It brought it all back. Russia is still Russia, out greatest foe. They could have changed and embraced a better way of life, but they really didn’t. And now we are facing them down again, where we are the strongest we have been militarily, after 20 years of war fighting, and they are the weakest they have ever been. As a cold war kid, I see we have unfinished business, and we should take them off the table while we can. And in the process, we should rid Ukraine of them as well. It’s well past time to put that Bear down. I get that, I was never pro Russia at all but in the beginning I didn't really understand some of the history with Ukraine and the dynamics of the Maidan revolt and their attempts to break free from Russian influence. I think I have a much better handle on it now after reading and watching stuff for a month. I want Russia to lose, but at the same time am concerned about the possibility of WW3 because I don't trust my government to be prepared to win it. I kinda feel the best option right now is just to let Ukraine fight and supply them with what they need. The word that is missing from the worlds vocabulary right now is “Brinksmanship”. We all want to avoid nukes flying. But we all differ on how to help Ukraine win and support them without a nuclear exchange. The US and European nations largely mastered nuclear brinkmanship with the Soviets. It was a constant threat and the crux of the cold war. That calculus on how to win without using nuclear weapons, doctrines of MAD, etc. It seems to me the bug debate is to be had if MAD is still in place, or if Russia has abandoned it. Our response is half way between the two ideas. Hence we are sending equipment, but not heavy weapons, nor putting planes in the air and boots on the ground. We all hope that is enough for Ukraine to prevail. But if not, we all talk about the other options, from an expanding war, to escalation. I am probably one of the more people with a more aggressive stance against Russia, after hearing everything Putin had to say, and seeing the horrors against civilians his forces have committed. Putin is already calling this WWIII. He is already calling this a war against the US and Europe. So in my mind, anyone advocating holding back, is just behind the curve on just how import it is that Ukraine wins, and how important our own nuclear Brinkmanship is. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:20:24 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: You're leaving out a major issue. Russia has publicly stated and their state news organizations are running stories on the inability for Ukraine to exist as a people. Russia is pushing this in their country BIG TIME currently, that Ukraine CANNOT exist. Russia stating it's over or stopping hostilities without destroying or taking all of Ukraine would make Russia appear to backtrack or lose face based on the current public campaign and push in Russia (to pit the populace against Ukrainians..as they are having to mobilize them to fight). Russia can no longer compromise on Ukraine without appearing to lose to their population. Despots cannot have that occur. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: Originally Posted By Papposilenus: Originally Posted By FALFOX: Originally Posted By TTTSNB: if you also mean to say that we should shrink away from WW3, I would disagree with that. Russia hasn't changed from the evil bastards they were over the last 100 years and are proving themselves a blight on the face of the Earth. I think the position early in the war was that UKR wasn't our business too much and we could tolerate atrocities by secluding RUS from the West, but it is becoming apparent they are genocidal expansionists and further such incursions are inevitable. Let the natural conclusion come even if it is WW3, we can't be held hostage with a threat of nuclear war. if it comes it that, it comes to that. they won't win. is it worth it? that has been the question so far. the answer is increasingly tilting toward Yes. actually it would be better to get it over with now. they will have more and better nuclear armaments in a few years. It's not so simple. You're opinion seems based on trying to predict the future. Here is an option Russia secures the two separatist oblasts in the coming days. Russia finishes clearing the AZOV battalion. Russia and Ukraine then return to peace talks. Ukraine cedes control over the separatists oblasts and Crimea (which by the way were major hurdles to joining NATO) and Russia leaves the rest of Ukraine. -Russia "beat the Nazis" and obtained land -Ukraine continues to exist and solved its civil war and can join NATO and EU. While I'm certain this isn't the outcome Ukraine or Russia wanted, it's a possibility, no nukes were needed and Western support halted the creation of another Putin Puppet state. Am I right, who know. We might all die in nuclear fire next week, but your certainty is incorrect. There are plenty of possible outcomes. You're leaving out a major issue. Russia has publicly stated and their state news organizations are running stories on the inability for Ukraine to exist as a people. Russia is pushing this in their country BIG TIME currently, that Ukraine CANNOT exist. Russia stating it's over or stopping hostilities without destroying or taking all of Ukraine would make Russia appear to backtrack or lose face based on the current public campaign and push in Russia (to pit the populace against Ukrainians..as they are having to mobilize them to fight). Russia can no longer compromise on Ukraine without appearing to lose to their population. Despots cannot have that occur. I considered that both sides said my possibility is not an option for them. But, Russia has lied to their people about plenty of things. I see no reason not to add another lie to the list. Reframe "the real Ukraine" as the separatist oblasts and tada, you've "freed" Ukraine Don't get me wrong- I'm making that prediction in the capacity of "there are possible options other than Ukrainian annihilation in a conventional war or Nuclear WW3" not as something I expect |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:20:56 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rca2222: Did this get posted yet? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/176088/FQqPzxWWUAYrGXc_jpg-2354354.JPG Okay chamberlain trump |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:21:37 AM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:22:09 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FrankyRay: Trump needs to go away. Russia needs to be defeated and its people humiliated and ashamed for generations. I agree, but in the statement Trump made I feel he is talking directly to Putin. Letting him know where he stands and he's willing to talk rather than fight for years to come and only death on both sides will be realized. You can fight a war for 20-30 years with no winners or you can sit down like men and talk it out. If Trump becomes President again Putin knows Trump would drop HAMMER on him so he would come to the table and negotiate (pull back forces). Meanwhile Ukraine needs to keep fighting hard and drive the orcs out and back into Russia but that doesn't mean Putin would end it there, he could still pull back forces and use tactical nukes on the Ukraine army as they advance closer to Russia's border wiping them all out, then push his forces back into Ukraine and head north to Kiev to take it. Lots of crazy things can happen.. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:22:27 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rca2222: Did this get posted yet? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/176088/FQqPzxWWUAYrGXc_jpg-2354354.JPG |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:24:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975:
Good shoot. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:24:45 AM EDT
[#14]
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:25:19 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gunner226: He's a businessman. He lives for "the deal." He met with little Rocketman in N. Korea. He met with ISIS/Al Qaeda leaders in Afghanistan. He also brokered a historical peace deal in the middle east. For him, it's NEVER too late to work something out. Sometimes that trait can be a good thing. Other times, not so much. No matter what his personal feelings about the matter are, he's walking a very fine line, politically, right now. Conservatives are once again split on a big issue as we come into an election cycle. If he comes out in strong support of Ukraine and condemns Russis, he immediately loses a majority (as far as I can tell) of his conservative supporters. At the same time, there is still a significant percentage of conservatives who are decidedly pro-Ukraine, and he needs them, too. Trump also spent his 4 years trying to get us OUT of foriegn conflicts. His take on Russia/Ukraine really shouldn't be surprising to anyone. The conservatives would not be anywhere near as split on this issue if covid had not happened. The knee-jerk belief that the opposite of whatever the .Gov and media is saying must be true is a direct result of Covid and the govt's mishandling of it, and the massive social media disinformation campaign on both sides of the issue. I don't think that division and polarization being caused just before this invasion is a coincidence. Agreed. There may be 1% chance to come to some agreement. But I dont think Ukraine or Russia would ever come to any agreement until the military situation on the ground forces them. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:26:04 AM EDT
[#16]
UA Deputy Prime Minister says 60 soldiers and 16 civilians returned in prisoner swap ⚡️Today we exchanged 60 soldiers, 10 of them officers. Also 16 civilians are returning home. This was the fifth exchange of prisoners. A total of 76 people. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:28:08 AM EDT
[#17]
Been listening to the media over the last couple of days and hearing that the Russians are finally going to start playing their normal game. Lots of artillery and tanks on a flat plane in the Donbas. This will favor the Russians. What I find hard to believe is that if the Russians go to this plan it is exactly what the Ukrainians and their American and British advisors are expecting. Shoot, NATO has been war gaming this eventuality for years, 90 ways to Sunday. These long-range shots on flat ground are exactly what Javelin was built for. So is the front moving east really that big of a game changer other that the Russians are finally concentrating forces.
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:34:46 AM EDT
[#18]
New poster, thanks for the discussion and the info. Much appreciated.
Personal observation: At this point, there is no win for Russia continuing this war. Even if they "win" the battle, there will be little or nothing left of Ukraine. What is left will come at a tremendous cost to govern. The military costs have been staggering, their current economic losses are staggering--their future economic losses are devastating. They are isolated from the rest of the world and it gets worse every day the war continues. If they use chemical or nuclear assets all of that gets magnified 10X. Putin and his cronies have no out. Their personal wealth has been tapped and Putin is a dead man walking. No head of state will want to be seen as doing anything but condemning him. He's toast. His travel will be confined to Russia or a few other countries beholden to Russia. That's it--and that's if they don't kill or jail him. Putin has no personal exit strategy. His massive wealth has and will continue to be taken away. Sooner or later the Russians will learn what is going on, and they won't like it. They may be limited as to what they can do, but there will be little or no support. The Russian generals have to understand there is no victory for them, their soldiers are being slowly decimated. They are being crippled militarily. The Russian command and control has been completely usurped by the death and firing of military leaders, thus further degrading their forces ability to wage war. Again, there are no beneficial outcomes for Russia to continue this war, none. The only thing, in my opinion, that forces Russian continuation is Putin's ego. That's it, that's the list. Kill Putin's ego. End the War. Peace. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:36:24 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Furthermore they did try to negotiate and it was unsurprisingly a waste of time. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Originally Posted By FrankyRay: Originally Posted By rca2222: Did this get posted yet? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/176088/FQqPzxWWUAYrGXc_jpg-2354354.JPG Trump needs to go away. Russia needs to be defeated and its people humiliated and ashamed for generations. Furthermore they did try to negotiate and it was unsurprisingly a waste of time. As sombody that has experience at high level negotiatons: Russia was not actually taking part in the negotiation, it was just window dressing/stalling for time. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:38:21 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: I agree, but in the statement Trump made I feel he is talking directly to Putin. Letting him know where he stands and he's willing to talk rather than fight for years to come and only death on both sides will be realized. You can fight a war for 20-30 years with no winners or you can sit down like men and talk it out. If Trump becomes President again Putin knows Trump would drop HAMMER on him so he would come to the table and negotiate (pull back forces). Meanwhile Ukraine needs to keep fighting hard and drive the orcs out and back into Russia but that doesn't mean Putin would end it there, he could still pull back forces and use tactical nukes on the Ukraine army as they advance closer to Russia's border wiping them all out, then push his forces back into Ukraine and head north to Kiev to take it. Lots of crazy things can happen.. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By realwar: Originally Posted By FrankyRay: Trump needs to go away. Russia needs to be defeated and its people humiliated and ashamed for generations. I agree, but in the statement Trump made I feel he is talking directly to Putin. Letting him know where he stands and he's willing to talk rather than fight for years to come and only death on both sides will be realized. You can fight a war for 20-30 years with no winners or you can sit down like men and talk it out. If Trump becomes President again Putin knows Trump would drop HAMMER on him so he would come to the table and negotiate (pull back forces). Meanwhile Ukraine needs to keep fighting hard and drive the orcs out and back into Russia but that doesn't mean Putin would end it there, he could still pull back forces and use tactical nukes on the Ukraine army as they advance closer to Russia's border wiping them all out, then push his forces back into Ukraine and head north to Kiev to take it. Lots of crazy things can happen.. Unfortunately he didn’t say that and applied it equally. You can read into it but that’s not what he said. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:40:53 AM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:41:25 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: If you were wondering why Ukrainians are resisting, that’s why. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By AnalogKid: If Russia can't have Ukraine's industrial infrastructure intact - along with what amounts to slave labor to work within - they'll happily take the country for the resources and kill every last inhabitant. This is what many people fail to realize or acknowledge. If you were wondering why Ukrainians are resisting, that’s why. Russia is using an almost scorched earth strategy to finish Mariupol. That steel mill is the most valuable thing there, aside from the port. They will level it, infrastructure and civilians be damned. That’s the approach we will see moving forward, I think. Russia will just kill and destroy everything in sight to win. Ukraine has no choice, fight or most people will die. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:42:31 AM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:43:56 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grambosc: It's bad, but my local real life acquaintances are even worse. I left a conservative gathering last month over the pro Russia parroting, convinced that at some future point we may come to violence over irreconcilable differences. They basically accused anyone not embracing Team Russia of being hostile, and brainwashed, and implied that during an emergency they'd just come help themselves to our preps. Maybe they were joking, but I now have to consider the possibility that I might have to use lethal force to defend myself and family from them at that point. I've cut off all communications cold, and hopefully they'll just move on now. However, I'm glad to have learned their true colors now instead of after a big SHTF event, when I may have hoped for their help. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grambosc: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: Originally Posted By Zam18th: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By RogueShot12er: Originally Posted By Tuco22: Can this thread go back to being news and stuff. That'd be great. So like page 10? This is just a Ukraine rah rah thread. Nothing wrong with that just don't expect unbiased information if you are following it. It is what it is. 90% of Arfcom is either indifferent or pro Russia. This is really the only thread that is somewhat pro Ukraine. GD is more pro Russia than my Russian wife. It's pathetic. Damn. Is it really that bad? I've been mostly avoiding it out of fear I'll lose a lot of respect for members or this community. I checked it today after having been only in this thread and immediately regretted it. Yes it's that bad. It's bad, but my local real life acquaintances are even worse. I left a conservative gathering last month over the pro Russia parroting, convinced that at some future point we may come to violence over irreconcilable differences. They basically accused anyone not embracing Team Russia of being hostile, and brainwashed, and implied that during an emergency they'd just come help themselves to our preps. Maybe they were joking, but I now have to consider the possibility that I might have to use lethal force to defend myself and family from them at that point. I've cut off all communications cold, and hopefully they'll just move on now. However, I'm glad to have learned their true colors now instead of after a big SHTF event, when I may have hoped for their help. Damn. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:45:17 AM EDT
[#25]
Meanwhile......
German Leopards for Ukraine: Scrap or Wunderwaffe?  Leopard 1s for Ukraine: Still useful? |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:46:09 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975: Jeez that reads like someone writing a parody. Satire is impossible in a 🤡 🌎 |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:46:56 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FrankyRay: Trump needs to go away. Russia needs to be defeated and its people humiliated and ashamed for generations. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FrankyRay: Originally Posted By rca2222: Did this get posted yet? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/176088/FQqPzxWWUAYrGXc_jpg-2354354.JPG Trump needs to go away. Russia needs to be defeated and its people humiliated and ashamed for generations. Voted twice and believe there was shit during last election. But I’m with you. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:48:35 AM EDT
[#28]
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:48:54 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: I’m getting real impatient about that. I’m betting western leaders have warned Zelensky if he goes deep into Russia they will “rethink” all the arms. "Deep"? I sure they forbid him from going anywhere near Russia and even Crimea. With a few exceptions, Putin's "I'm a madman capable of anything" routine has everyone in NATO terrified. If Biden even remembers what/where Ukraine is he would overflow dis diapers and his puppeteers are commie-lib-progressive lgbtqxyz pacifists that hate anything military. If Putin nuked Kiev, they would surrender. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:48:58 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rca2222: Did this get posted yet? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/176088/FQqPzxWWUAYrGXc_jpg-2354354.JPG Trump was building up the UA military which stopped when the rotting potato took office. He could have said either find a solution or continue to supply UA with weapons. For now he sits on the sidelines watching, just like us |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:49:51 AM EDT
[#31]
The Dutch are sending AVs to Ukraine:
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:50:02 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83: Voted twice and believe there was shit during last election. But I’m with you. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83: Originally Posted By FrankyRay: Originally Posted By rca2222: Did this get posted yet? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/176088/FQqPzxWWUAYrGXc_jpg-2354354.JPG Trump needs to go away. Russia needs to be defeated and its people humiliated and ashamed for generations. Voted twice and believe there was shit during last election. But I’m with you. Same here. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:50:12 AM EDT
[#33]
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:51:38 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SmilingBandit: Furthermore they did try to negotiate and it was unsurprisingly a waste of time. Trump is great at pragmatic problem solving, but I think he's wrong here. The Ukrainians have no reason to negotiate because they are winning but it has NOT shown up geographically, so they will lose by negotiating now. The Russians have no reason to negotiate because the Ukrainians are winning and everyone knows it, so they will lose (literally) by negotiating. And they don't care how many end up dead. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:59:44 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: We know Russia has 76 BTGs in Donbas. What is opposing them? Worst case (for UKR), that is around 76,000 Russkies. That seems like an awful light invading force, considering the historic 3:1 attacker/defender ratio considered necessary for a successful attacking force (if comparably equipped), as I would bet the Ukrainian Army has a LOT more than 26,000 effectives in the region. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 8:59:56 AM EDT
[#36]
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 9:00:55 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: I can't find the heart to forgive them for what they did to Hungary in 1956. My grandfather and great grandfather died together frozen and naked in a prison.. Beaten..starved..tortured and left naked . They died clinging to each other as a father and son...and the fucken Russians and commie Hungarians thought it was funny.... I hate communism with all my heart.. I hate russia with every fiber of my being. I want them to apologize and beg forgiveness to my dad for putting a bullet in his back and shrapnels also. I want them grounded to powder into a nothing burger. 3rd world shithole.. Of nothingness..I want them shitting in the ground and wiping their ass with their hands...that's how savage I want them return to. My grandpa was a political prisoner in Siberia … I share the same feelings … Russians don’t really care. They never have. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 9:03:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Balu]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TTTSNB: let's take a minute to review the Russian doctrine on use of nuclear force. Putin made a decree about it in June 2020, paragbraph 19: https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2021/04/29/russian_nuclear_doctrine_force_expansion_and_nuclear_deterrence_774957.html observations: 1. they respond to an attack on their allies. so if Iran attacks a country and starts a war, and Russia joins them as an ally, and whoever attack Iran with a ballistic missile, then Russia launches nukes at them. the same scenario if China attacks Taiwan and Russia becomes their ally. or if Poland attacks Belarus, who is already their ally. 2. they said if their "nuclear forces" are compromised, not "strategic nuclear forces". that poses two problems. one, it includes their tactical nuclear weapons on the battlefield. destroying them gets a nuclear response. and two, practically all of their missile systems and lots of big artillery are dual capable between conventional and nuclear warheads. so if those are attacked with conventional weapons as part of conventional warfare, Russia considers it an attack on their nuclear forces, so they launch a nuclear response. 3. a cyber attack on their nuclear command and control gets a nuclear response. 4. do economic sanctions that result in the collapse of their ecomony, put the existence of Russia in jeopardy? and therefore result in a nuclear strike? 5. nothing about their doctrine prevents the use of a pre-emptive strike. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TTTSNB: let's take a minute to review the Russian doctrine on use of nuclear force. Putin made a decree about it in June 2020, paragbraph 19: 19. The conditions specifying the possibility of nuclear weapons use by the Russian Federation are as follows: a) arrival of reliable data on a launch of ballistic missiles attacking the territory of the Russian Federation and/or its allies; b) use of nuclear weapons or other types of weapons of mass destruction by an adversary against the Russian Federation and/or its allies; c) attack by an adversary against critical governmental or military sites of the Russian Federation, disruption of which would undermine nuclear forces response actions; d) aggression against the Russian Federation with the use of conventional weapons when the very existence of the state is in jeopardy. https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2021/04/29/russian_nuclear_doctrine_force_expansion_and_nuclear_deterrence_774957.html observations: 1. they respond to an attack on their allies. so if Iran attacks a country and starts a war, and Russia joins them as an ally, and whoever attack Iran with a ballistic missile, then Russia launches nukes at them. the same scenario if China attacks Taiwan and Russia becomes their ally. or if Poland attacks Belarus, who is already their ally. 2. they said if their "nuclear forces" are compromised, not "strategic nuclear forces". that poses two problems. one, it includes their tactical nuclear weapons on the battlefield. destroying them gets a nuclear response. and two, practically all of their missile systems and lots of big artillery are dual capable between conventional and nuclear warheads. so if those are attacked with conventional weapons as part of conventional warfare, Russia considers it an attack on their nuclear forces, so they launch a nuclear response. 3. a cyber attack on their nuclear command and control gets a nuclear response. 4. do economic sanctions that result in the collapse of their ecomony, put the existence of Russia in jeopardy? and therefore result in a nuclear strike? 5. nothing about their doctrine prevents the use of a pre-emptive strike. This is a whole lot of bullshit. It's what little Vlad hopes the west believes so he can invade countries with impunity. Instead of the west worrying about what Russia might do, we need to make sure Vlad is worried about what's happening to his empire building project. So far that part is panning out quite well. Meaning he is facing a unified response that no one expected, especially him. Russia, instead of looking formidable and glorious is looking more like a 3rd world shithole with retarded barbaric orcs making up their military. Besides, nothing Russia puts on paper is worth a damn including laws, treaties or international agreements. Not sure if you noticed but they lie a lot about everything. It's pretty much a core attribute of their national identity. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 9:04:28 AM EDT
[#39]
Imam of the Kurgan mosque on Kadyrov “Ramzan Kadyrov… is the only Muslim leader who supports us not only in word but also in deed. If he had not sent his soldiers to Ukraine, then now, perhaps, the neo-Nazis would have already captured the Donbass, ”Mizrobov believes. The representative of the Muslims is sure that no one can compare with Kadyrov. “Defending the Motherland is half of faith. Ramzan Akhmatovich acts like a true Muslim and patriot of Russia. The head of Chechnya was not afraid and went to Ukraine himself. Protect all of us, protect the civilian population of Ukraine. Kadyrov is a man of peace and justice,” the imam said. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 9:05:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Chaingun]
[#40]
 [tweet]https://twitter.com/mhmck/status/1516052099821416450?s=20&[/tweet] Well, come on all of you basement dwellers, Olena needs your helping hand. She's fighting off the Orc invaders Way down yonder in Ukraine land So drop your cocks and pick up a gun, We're gonna have a whole lotta fun. And it's one, two, three, What are the Orcs fighting for? Don't ask me, I don't give a damn, Next stop is Russia's land; And it's five, six, seven, Throw the Orcs in the burn pits, Well there ain't no time to wonder why, Whoopee! all Orcs are gonna die. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 9:06:55 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FrankyRay: Russia needs to be defeated and its people humiliated and ashamed for generations. That is what the British and French decided to do to Germany in 1919. Let's do that! It worked out so well the last time |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 9:09:33 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83: Voted twice and believe there was shit during last election. But I’m with you. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83: Originally Posted By FrankyRay: Originally Posted By rca2222: Did this get posted yet? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/176088/FQqPzxWWUAYrGXc_jpg-2354354.JPG Trump needs to go away. Russia needs to be defeated and its people humiliated and ashamed for generations. Voted twice and believe there was shit during last election. But I’m with you. Same here, for the record. He just does more harm than good, anymore. And I'm honestly tired of politicians at an age where most people would have their car keys taken away by their families. 
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 9:10:20 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Balu: This is a whole lot of bullshit. It's what little Vlad hopes the west believes so he can invade countries with impunity. Instead of the west worrying about what Russia might do, we need to make sure Vlad is worried about what's happening to his empire building project. So far that part is panning out quite well. Meaning he is facing a unified response that no one expected, especially him. Russia, instead of looking formidable and glorious is looking more like a 3rd world shithole with retarded barbaric orcs making up their military. Besides, nothing Russia puts on paper is worth a damn including laws, treaties and international agreements. Not sure if you noticed but they lie a lot about everything. It's pretty much a core attribute of their national identity. Agreed. How long do western governments want to deal with commie despots and their murderous bullshit? Fuck em all. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 9:10:22 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975: The Dutch are sending AVs to Ukraine:
Russia kicking out the Dutch |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 9:10:43 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wulfmann: That is what the British and French decided to do to Germany in 1919. Let's do that! It worked out so well the last time Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wulfmann: Originally Posted By FrankyRay: Russia needs to be defeated and its people humiliated and ashamed for generations. That is what the British and French decided to do to Germany in 1919. Let's do that! It worked out so well the last time In fairness, it kinda worked the second time round, though that time they had something far more heinous to be ashamed of. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 9:13:15 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Papposilenus: It's not so simple. You're opinion seems based on trying to predict the future. Here is an option Russia secures the two separatist oblasts in the coming days. Russia finishes clearing the AZOV battalion. Russia and Ukraine then return to peace talks. Ukraine cedes control over the separatists oblasts and Crimea (which by the way were major hurdles to joining NATO) and Russia leaves the rest of Ukraine. -Russia "beat the Nazis" and obtained land -Ukraine continues to exist and solved its civil war and can join NATO and EU. While I'm certain this isn't the outcome Ukraine or Russia wanted, it's a possibility, no nukes were needed and Western support halted the creation of another Putin Puppet state. Am I right, who know. We might all die in nuclear fire next week, but your certainty is incorrect. There are plenty of possible outcomes. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Papposilenus: Originally Posted By FALFOX: Originally Posted By TTTSNB: if you also mean to say that we should shrink away from WW3, I would disagree with that. Russia hasn't changed from the evil bastards they were over the last 100 years and are proving themselves a blight on the face of the Earth. I think the position early in the war was that UKR wasn't our business too much and we could tolerate atrocities by secluding RUS from the West, but it is becoming apparent they are genocidal expansionists and further such incursions are inevitable. Let the natural conclusion come even if it is WW3, we can't be held hostage with a threat of nuclear war. if it comes it that, it comes to that. they won't win. is it worth it? that has been the question so far. the answer is increasingly tilting toward Yes. actually it would be better to get it over with now. they will have more and better nuclear armaments in a few years. It's not so simple. You're opinion seems based on trying to predict the future. Here is an option Russia secures the two separatist oblasts in the coming days. Russia finishes clearing the AZOV battalion. Russia and Ukraine then return to peace talks. Ukraine cedes control over the separatists oblasts and Crimea (which by the way were major hurdles to joining NATO) and Russia leaves the rest of Ukraine. -Russia "beat the Nazis" and obtained land -Ukraine continues to exist and solved its civil war and can join NATO and EU. While I'm certain this isn't the outcome Ukraine or Russia wanted, it's a possibility, no nukes were needed and Western support halted the creation of another Putin Puppet state. Am I right, who know. We might all die in nuclear fire next week, but your certainty is incorrect. There are plenty of possible outcomes. I see this ad the most likely outcome at this point. Considering the West’s history of appeasement to grasp on to a few more years of easy living. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 9:13:29 AM EDT
[#47]
  The TU-160 strategic bomber was seen in the skies over Western Russia amid huge pressure on the Kremlin over the sinking of the Moskva flagship in the Black Sea. More |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 9:17:11 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Papposilenus: It's not so simple. You're opinion seems based on trying to predict the future. Here is an option Russia secures the two separatist oblasts in the coming days. Russia finishes clearing the AZOV battalion. Russia and Ukraine then return to peace talks. Ukraine cedes control over the separatists oblasts and Crimea (which by the way were major hurdles to joining NATO) and Russia leaves the rest of Ukraine. -Russia "beat the Nazis" and obtained land -Ukraine continues to exist and solved its civil war and can join NATO and EU. While I'm certain this isn't the outcome Ukraine or Russia wanted, it's a possibility, no nukes were needed and Western support halted the creation of another Putin Puppet state. Am I right, who know. We might all die in nuclear fire next week, but your certainty is incorrect. There are plenty of possible outcomes. This has always been the most likely scenario the moment the rush to secure Kyiv failed. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 9:18:31 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Papposilenus: It's not so simple. You're opinion seems based on trying to predict the future. Here is an option Russia secures the two separatist oblasts in the coming days. Russia finishes clearing the AZOV battalion. Russia and Ukraine then return to peace talks. Ukraine cedes control over the separatists oblasts and Crimea (which by the way were major hurdles to joining NATO) and Russia leaves the rest of Ukraine. -Russia "beat the Nazis" and obtained land -Ukraine continues to exist and solved its civil war and can join NATO and EU. While I'm certain this isn't the outcome Ukraine or Russia wanted, it's a possibility, no nukes were needed and Western support halted the creation of another Putin Puppet state. Am I right, who know. We might all die in nuclear fire next week, but your certainty is incorrect. There are plenty of possible outcomes. I don’t know. I think this might be the time to bleed Russia and make them weak. I think the west will keep this going…this is Russia’s Vietnam but much worse… |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 9:25:10 AM EDT
[#50]
Russia says civilians at Azovstal is fake news MOSCOW, April 19 - RIA Novosti. The Russian side is demanding the release of civilians from the Mariupol Azovstal plant, if there are any, Colonel-General Mikhail Mizintsev, head of the National Center for Defense Control of the Russian Federation, said on Tuesday. According to him, over the past 24 hours, a number of publications have been recorded in the Ukrainian media, in which official representatives of Kiev declare that a large number of civilians are allegedly at Azovstal. They’re counting on owning the place so they can’t be proven wrong. They also refer to “Kiev” official representatives, when the request came from the CO of Azov, head “Nazi” himself, strengthening their national caricature of Ukraine. |
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