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Posted: 10/27/2021 8:27:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: The_Beer_Slayer]
This is now the active "shit News links, thanks to BerettaGuy: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: LINKS TO UKRAINIAN NEWS SOURCES IN ENGLISH Kyiv Post Ukrainian News UKRInform EUROMAIDEN PRESS New Voice of Ukraine Kyiv Independent Ukraine World InterFax Ukraine UATV Ukrainian Journal Official Website of the President of Ukraine Ukrainian Ministry of Defense Save these links. I can't post all the headlines like I've done in the past - too much news and too often. Please @ me with additional stuff to be added here. I don't currently have time to properly curate this thread otherwise. New news link c/o berettaguy: Ukrainian Pravda https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/ Stop fake, anti - disinformation site: https://www.stopfake.org/en/main/ |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:11:31 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreenMushroom: Very well put. The Russians are going to try and fix Ukrainian units and maul them. The Ukrainians are going to try and use there superior mobility and command and control to isolate and destroy Russian units without becoming a stationary target. Western Intel is a huge factor on the Ukrainian side probably equal to the weapons being supplied. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreenMushroom: Originally Posted By kncook: The one thing Grads are good at is leveling fixed positions, buildings, and city blocks. If it’s a moving offensive that doesn’t get bogged down first the grads and Russians aren’t the quickest or most nimble. Very well put. The Russians are going to try and fix Ukrainian units and maul them. The Ukrainians are going to try and use there superior mobility and command and control to isolate and destroy Russian units without becoming a stationary target. Western Intel is a huge factor on the Ukrainian side probably equal to the weapons being supplied. Seems to me they'd want to eliminate SAM cover and attack from the air in addition to their mobile ground forces - or don't they have the resources to prosecute that angle? |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:13:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By THOT_Vaccine: I've been seeing people say "Ukraine cannot win" since the invasion began to be discussed. From what I can see from here, Russian equipment is shit. That shit is poorly maintained. When it does break, they don't have spares. The guys they have pulling triggers would be hard pressed to complete elementary tasks, and they are running low on those cretins... I guess my question is this: How the fuck does Russia win? Think they will go nuclear? WTF does that get them? Smoke clears and they still have the same issues and their zoo is now radioactive... I don't think Russia has a way of defining victory. There is no victorious outcome. They are just too fucking stupid to see it. When this party first kicked off, it was really hard to imagine any outcome other than Russia wrecking Ukraine and taking over. I expected Kyiv to last maybe 2-3 weeks, but at the end of the first week, there started to be more and more eyebrow raisers. After a few weeks had passed, the reality of the situation seemed clearly and obviously to be the opposite. The Russian military is a total goat rodeo, and they failed at the most basic things. They don't have secure comms, they don't have stable logistics, their systems aren't maintained and don't function... That's before we get into one of the most powerful forces in combat, and that's motivation. The Ukranians are VERY motivated. The Russians are not. While the Ukrainians are fighting for their existence, their homeland, and their sovereignty, there's no cause for the Russian soldiers to want to fight, and quite a few of them have chosen not to. With the amount of equipment we've seen abandoned and the various reporting we've seen, the number of deserters is probably very high. Perhaps 10k+. When you combine that motivation with NATO supplied weapons, it's a solid no-win scenario for Russia. Even if they had taken out the Ukrainian government, the subsequent occupation scenario would have made US operations in OEF and OIF look like easy mode. An educated and highly motivated resistance/insurgency with an endless supply of advanced weapons and intel from the world's most capable nations? Fuuuuuuuuck that. No military in the world can hold that ground. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:18:08 PM EDT
[#3]
I'm not surprised there are morons in GD. What's perhaps a bit surprising is the Russians seem to have spent at least some effort to swim in our little pool here.
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:18:25 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: I have lost over two dozen friends over this fucken shit.....including Hungarians and so called right wing Americans..... Fuck them.. FUCK RUSSIA.. fuck the fucken koolaid of Alexandervich Jonesikov... fuck them all..... Slava Ukraina...and I say that as a proud Hungarian..... All is not lost. Youu may have gained a few friends too. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:18:43 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bassgasm: When this party first kicked off, it was really hard to imagine any outcome other than Russia wrecking Ukraine and taking over. I expected Kyiv to last maybe 2-3 weeks, but at the end of the first week, there started to be more and more eyebrow raisers. After a few weeks had passed, the reality of the situation seemed clearly and obviously to be the opposite. The Russian military is a total goat rodeo, and they failed at the most basic things. They don't have secure comms, they don't have stable logistics, their systems aren't maintained and don't function... That's before we get into one of the most powerful forces in combat, and that's motivation. The Ukranians are VERY motivated. The Russians are not. While the Ukrainians are fighting for their existence, their homeland, and their sovereignty, there's no cause for the Russian soldiers to want to fight, and quite a few of them have chosen not to. With the amount of equipment we've seen abandoned and the various reporting we've seen, the number of deserters is probably very high. Perhaps 10k+. When you combine that motivation with NATO supplied weapons, it's a solid no-win scenario for Russia. Even if they had taken out the Ukrainian government, the subsequent occupation scenario would have made US operations in OEF and OIF look like easy mode. An educated and highly motivated resistance/insurgency with an endless supply of advanced weapons and intel from the world's most capable nations? Fuuuuuuuuck that. No military in the world can hold that ground. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bassgasm: Originally Posted By THOT_Vaccine: I've been seeing people say "Ukraine cannot win" since the invasion began to be discussed. From what I can see from here, Russian equipment is shit. That shit is poorly maintained. When it does break, they don't have spares. The guys they have pulling triggers would be hard pressed to complete elementary tasks, and they are running low on those cretins... I guess my question is this: How the fuck does Russia win? Think they will go nuclear? WTF does that get them? Smoke clears and they still have the same issues and their zoo is now radioactive... I don't think Russia has a way of defining victory. There is no victorious outcome. They are just too fucking stupid to see it. When this party first kicked off, it was really hard to imagine any outcome other than Russia wrecking Ukraine and taking over. I expected Kyiv to last maybe 2-3 weeks, but at the end of the first week, there started to be more and more eyebrow raisers. After a few weeks had passed, the reality of the situation seemed clearly and obviously to be the opposite. The Russian military is a total goat rodeo, and they failed at the most basic things. They don't have secure comms, they don't have stable logistics, their systems aren't maintained and don't function... That's before we get into one of the most powerful forces in combat, and that's motivation. The Ukranians are VERY motivated. The Russians are not. While the Ukrainians are fighting for their existence, their homeland, and their sovereignty, there's no cause for the Russian soldiers to want to fight, and quite a few of them have chosen not to. With the amount of equipment we've seen abandoned and the various reporting we've seen, the number of deserters is probably very high. Perhaps 10k+. When you combine that motivation with NATO supplied weapons, it's a solid no-win scenario for Russia. Even if they had taken out the Ukrainian government, the subsequent occupation scenario would have made US operations in OEF and OIF look like easy mode. An educated and highly motivated resistance/insurgency with an endless supply of advanced weapons and intel from the world's most capable nations? Fuuuuuuuuck that. No military in the world can hold that ground. Good analysis...you are my new hero. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:21:06 PM EDT
[#6]
let's take a minute to review the Russian doctrine on use of nuclear force. Putin made a decree about it in June 2020, paragbraph 19:
19. The conditions specifying the possibility of nuclear weapons use by the Russian Federation are as follows: a) arrival of reliable data on a launch of ballistic missiles attacking the territory of the Russian Federation and/or its allies; b) use of nuclear weapons or other types of weapons of mass destruction by an adversary against the Russian Federation and/or its allies; c) attack by an adversary against critical governmental or military sites of the Russian Federation, disruption of which would undermine nuclear forces response actions; d) aggression against the Russian Federation with the use of conventional weapons when the very existence of the state is in jeopardy. https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2021/04/29/russian_nuclear_doctrine_force_expansion_and_nuclear_deterrence_774957.html observations: 1. they respond to an attack on their allies. so if Iran attacks a country and starts a war, and Russia joins them as an ally, and whoever attack Iran with a ballistic missile, then Russia launches nukes at them. the same scenario if China attacks Taiwan and Russia becomes their ally. or if Poland attacks Belarus, who is already their ally. 2. they said if their "nuclear forces" are compromised, not "strategic nuclear forces". that poses two problems. one, it includes their tactical nuclear weapons on the battlefield. destroying them gets a nuclear response. and two, practically all of their missile systems and lots of big artillery are dual capable between conventional and nuclear warheads. so if those are attacked with conventional weapons as part of conventional warfare, Russia considers it an attack on their nuclear forces, so they launch a nuclear response. 3. a cyber attack on their nuclear command and control gets a nuclear response. 4. do economic sanctions that result in the collapse of their ecomony, put the existence of Russia in jeopardy? and therefore result in a nuclear strike? 5. nothing about their doctrine prevents the use of a pre-emptive strike. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:21:26 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALFOX: LOL. Wait and watch. Their economy is in a nosedive, they can't replace the equipment they are losing, they can't make anywhere near enough PGMs, the personnel they are bringing in to reconstitute are from the far east wearing rubber boots, the IPE the average troop is now being issued is garbage, and they can't move enough fuel/material because their logistics sucks. If they launch even one nuke their entire military and most of their population will cease to exist. Where is the winning hand for them here? |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:23:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Jozsi]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 6SJ7GT: All is not lost. Youu may have gained a few friends too. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 6SJ7GT: Originally Posted By Jozsi: I have lost over two dozen friends over this fucken shit.....including Hungarians and so called right wing Americans..... Fuck them.. FUCK RUSSIA.. fuck the fucken koolaid of Alexandervich Jonesikov... fuck them all..... Slava Ukraina...and I say that as a proud Hungarian..... All is not lost. Youu may have gained a few friends too. I can't find the heart to forgive them for what they did to Hungary in 1956. My grandfather and great grandfather died together frozen and naked in a prison.. Beaten..starved..tortured and left naked . They died clinging to each other as a father and son...and the fucken Russians and commie Hungarians thought it was funny.... I hate communism with all my heart.. I hate russia with every fiber of my being. I want them to apologize and beg forgiveness to my dad for putting a bullet in his back and shrapnels also. I want them grounded to powder into a nothing burger. 3rd world shithole.. Of nothingness..I want them shitting in the ground and wiping their ass with their hands...that's how savage I want them return to. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:25:24 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By THOT_Vaccine: I've been seeing people say "Ukraine cannot win" since the invasion began to be discussed. From what I can see from here, Russian equipment is shit. That shit is poorly maintained. When it does break, they don't have spares. The guys they have pulling triggers would be hard pressed to complete elementary tasks, and they are running low on those cretins... I guess my question is this: How the fuck does Russia win? Think they will go nuclear? WTF does that get them? Smoke clears and they still have the same issues and their zoo is now radioactive... I don't think Russia has a way of defining victory. There is no victorious outcome. They are just too fucking stupid to see it. No They don't care and our Zoo will be radioactive too. Only winner in this nuclear exchange you guys seem to be wishing for might be China, If they are smart enough to stay out it. Also do you think Potatus would authorize release of nukes if attacked, I have my doubts. Hell if we did decide to act, Miley would probably call Russia and China and give them a heads up. You don't have someone like Reagan in charge, you have a bunch leftist and globalist who actively want the destruction of the west. Careful what your fantasizing about. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:26:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnalogKid: Seems to me they'd want to eliminate SAM cover and attack from the air in addition to their mobile ground forces - or don't they have the resources to prosecute that angle? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnalogKid: Originally Posted By GreenMushroom: Originally Posted By kncook: The one thing Grads are good at is leveling fixed positions, buildings, and city blocks. If it’s a moving offensive that doesn’t get bogged down first the grads and Russians aren’t the quickest or most nimble. Very well put. The Russians are going to try and fix Ukrainian units and maul them. The Ukrainians are going to try and use there superior mobility and command and control to isolate and destroy Russian units without becoming a stationary target. Western Intel is a huge factor on the Ukrainian side probably equal to the weapons being supplied. Seems to me they'd want to eliminate SAM cover and attack from the air in addition to their mobile ground forces - or don't they have the resources to prosecute that angle? Without being an expert, I think this is one of those cases where the simplest answer is the most likely: If Russia was capable of doing so, they already would have. In general terms, there were a lot of reports, even pre-war, that Russia was having problems keeping their pilots trained in general, much less trained up for a specialized mission like SEAD. There have also been numerous reports that Russia is short on precision weapons for aircraft, and that their aircraft aren't "multi-role" in the same sense as their western counterparts. Russia has managed to destroy some of Ukraine's anti-aircraft systems in a few ways, but Ukraine is getting more from NATO, and they captured quite a few from the Russians, so it's hard to say Russia has made much progress. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:30:36 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: Your take is well understood, and the majority of Arfcom shares it. My take was the same as yours initially as well. I heard nothing but comments from analysts and experts about how quickly Ukraine would fall, and how it was powerless to do so. Those same people also said that the Russian buildup was a bluff to keep Ukraine out of Nato. But then Ukraine stood up. I took the opportunity to learn more about the country and its people. I found out that Ukraine is kind of like the “Texas of Europe”. They were rapidly pushing back against corruption in recent years, pushing to westernize. Looking to be free. And here comes Russia, and the brutality and horror they imposed, unprovoked. They also showed how vulnerable they are. I grew up in the cold war too. And I had expected a conflict to come any time. I also remember how many hundreds of thousands of Americans have died at the hands of the Russians and their proxies and the cold war itself. It brought it all back. Russia is still Russia, out greatest foe. They could have changed and embraced a better way of life, but they really didn’t. And now we are facing them down again, where we are the strongest we have been militarily, after 20 years of war fighting, and they are the weakest they have ever been. As a cold war kid, I see we have unfinished business, and we should take them off the table while we can. And in the process, we should rid Ukraine of them as well. It’s well past time to put that Bear down. Very well said! As an old "duck and cover" boomer, I would like nothing better to see those Russian bastards defeated. They have ruined more lives in this world than any other people. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:30:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: I can't find the heart to forgive them for what they did to Hungary in 1956. My grandfather and great grandfather died together frozen and naked in a prison.. Beaten..starved..tortured and left naked . They died clinging to each other as a father and son...and the fucken Russians and commie Hungarians thought it was funny.... I hate communism with all my heart.. I hate russia with every fiber of my being. I want them to apologize and beg forgiveness to my dad for putting a bullet in his back and shrapnels also. I want them grounded to powder into a nothing burger. 3rd world shithole.. Of nothingness..I want them shitting in the ground and wiping their ass with their hands...that's how savage I want them return to. 
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:34:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GreenMushroom]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnalogKid: Seems to me they'd want to eliminate SAM cover and attack from the air in addition to their mobile ground forces - or don't they have the resources to prosecute that angle? Drones will be a big part of it I'm sure. I'm not sure on their conventional airforce. It wasn't that large to begin with and it has to have taken some losses but estimates on how many are all over the board. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:39:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroEngineer: Who are you to decide when Ukraine should bend the knee to Putin? They aren’t asking us to fight for them. They just need the tools to keep fighting, Have some fucking principals. You support freedom and the 2A but want to throw Ukraine to the wolves? Fuck that. Your post disgusts me. I went back and reread his post. I don't think he is saying Ukraine should roll over, but that Ukraine will eventually be overrun and die fighting unless they get our help. There is a difference between surrender, which for Ukraine means genocide, and fighting to the death. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:39:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bassgasm: Without being an expert, I think this is one of those cases where the simplest answer is the most likely: If Russia was capable of doing so, they already would have. In general terms, there were a lot of reports, even pre-war, that Russia was having problems keeping their pilots trained in general, much less trained up for a specialized mission like SEAD. There have also been numerous reports that Russia is short on precision weapons for aircraft, and that their aircraft aren't "multi-role" in the same sense as their western counterparts. Russia has managed to destroy some of Ukraine's anti-aircraft systems in a few ways, but Ukraine is getting more from NATO, and they captured quite a few from the Russians, so it's hard to say Russia has made much progress. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bassgasm: Originally Posted By AnalogKid: Originally Posted By GreenMushroom: Originally Posted By kncook: The one thing Grads are good at is leveling fixed positions, buildings, and city blocks. If it’s a moving offensive that doesn’t get bogged down first the grads and Russians aren’t the quickest or most nimble. Very well put. The Russians are going to try and fix Ukrainian units and maul them. The Ukrainians are going to try and use there superior mobility and command and control to isolate and destroy Russian units without becoming a stationary target. Western Intel is a huge factor on the Ukrainian side probably equal to the weapons being supplied. Seems to me they'd want to eliminate SAM cover and attack from the air in addition to their mobile ground forces - or don't they have the resources to prosecute that angle? Without being an expert, I think this is one of those cases where the simplest answer is the most likely: If Russia was capable of doing so, they already would have. In general terms, there were a lot of reports, even pre-war, that Russia was having problems keeping their pilots trained in general, much less trained up for a specialized mission like SEAD. There have also been numerous reports that Russia is short on precision weapons for aircraft, and that their aircraft aren't "multi-role" in the same sense as their western counterparts. Russia has managed to destroy some of Ukraine's anti-aircraft systems in a few ways, but Ukraine is getting more from NATO, and they captured quite a few from the Russians, so it's hard to say Russia has made much progress. My comments were meant for the Ukrainians prosecuting the Russians. One would think those SAM umbrellas would be high on someone's list - if they have any attack aircraft to hit the Grads with. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:42:28 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CenterMass762: There's a reason that I pretty much quit coming to GD over a month ago, other than this thread. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CenterMass762: Originally Posted By Zam18th: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By RogueShot12er: Originally Posted By Tuco22: Can this thread go back to being news and stuff. That'd be great. So like page 10? This is just a Ukraine rah rah thread. Nothing wrong with that just don't expect unbiased information if you are following it. It is what it is. 90% of Arfcom is either indifferent or pro Russia. This is really the only thread that is somewhat pro Ukraine. GD is more pro Russia than my Russian wife. It's pathetic. Damn. Is it really that bad? I've been mostly avoiding it out of fear I'll lose a lot of respect for members or this community. There's a reason that I pretty much quit coming to GD over a month ago, other than this thread. I popped into a couple of threads and instantly regretted it. For all the people who think this isn't winnable by Ukraine.... Chosin Reservoir A guy by the name of Chesty Puller, some Marines and even Army dudes stacked fuckin chinese like cordwood. They should have been obliterated. I'll take a cohesive, motivated fighting force any day of the week... |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:48:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Veccio: What causes you to think Russia will win? Where are they going to get all the manpower and equipment to replace all their losses? Their economy is in a nosedive, they can't replace the equipment they are losing, they can't make anywhere near enough PGMs, the personnel they are bringing in to reconstitute are from the far east wearing rubber boots, the IPE the average troop is now being issued is garbage, and they can't move enough fuel/material because their logistics sucks. If they launch even one nuke their entire military and most of their population will cease to exist. Where is the winning hand for them here? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Veccio: Originally Posted By FALFOX: LOL. Wait and watch. Their economy is in a nosedive, they can't replace the equipment they are losing, they can't make anywhere near enough PGMs, the personnel they are bringing in to reconstitute are from the far east wearing rubber boots, the IPE the average troop is now being issued is garbage, and they can't move enough fuel/material because their logistics sucks. If they launch even one nuke their entire military and most of their population will cease to exist. Where is the winning hand for them here? They have assloads of material. No matter what guesstimate we make about the failure rate or maintenance issues, their fieldable heavy equipment dwarfs Ukraine's. There's trainloads of heavy equipment on the way, and even if it's only a fraction of their reported amounts, it still outweigh's UA's trickle from the west. I want Russia to get its shit pushed in, but they don't care about personnel losses and they can swallow failure for months. The Ukrainians can't take the losses. There is no "good" outcome for them. They get bogged down in an insurgency if UA forces falter. Possible coup if they turn tail and run. The only face-saving move is to secure the east, double-down on Crimean border, and claim victory. UA says that aint an option. Historically, they've had no problem throwing bodies and shit equipment around until they get results. Yes, there's plenty of footage of shit equipment, from their boots to rotten food. But this is also an entity that would send conscripts in with knockoff Adidas and a Mosin if they had to... and they'd field more bodies than UA. There's no good outcome for any party here, because anything other than "my bad, I'll go home now" is a shit show. |
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:50:58 PM EDT
[#18]
Russian Space Lander
 Russian military equipment destroyed in Ukraine's east |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:51:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cobradriver: I popped into a couple of threads and instantly regretted it. For all the people who think this isn't winnable by Ukraine.... Chosin Reservoir A guy by the name of Chesty Puller, some Marines and even Army dudes stacked fuckin chinese like cordwood. They should have been obliterated. I'll take a cohesive, motivated fighting force any day of the week... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cobradriver: Originally Posted By CenterMass762: Originally Posted By Zam18th: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By RogueShot12er: Originally Posted By Tuco22: Can this thread go back to being news and stuff. That'd be great. So like page 10? This is just a Ukraine rah rah thread. Nothing wrong with that just don't expect unbiased information if you are following it. It is what it is. 90% of Arfcom is either indifferent or pro Russia. This is really the only thread that is somewhat pro Ukraine. GD is more pro Russia than my Russian wife. It's pathetic. Damn. Is it really that bad? I've been mostly avoiding it out of fear I'll lose a lot of respect for members or this community. There's a reason that I pretty much quit coming to GD over a month ago, other than this thread. I popped into a couple of threads and instantly regretted it. For all the people who think this isn't winnable by Ukraine.... Chosin Reservoir A guy by the name of Chesty Puller, some Marines and even Army dudes stacked fuckin chinese like cordwood. They should have been obliterated. I'll take a cohesive, motivated fighting force any day of the week... The part in bold, brought to you by the actions of a bunch of dumb assed Orcs who targeted civilians. Now the entire country wants to kill all of them. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:56:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#20]
Ukrainian Defense Ministry says Armed Forces liberated villages near Izyum
Izyum city council official claims chemical weapons used earlier today in Izyum Japan sending aid to countries accepting Ukrainian refugees.
Hour-long assault on the positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the area #Александровки #Херсонской of the region remained unsuccessful.”
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USA
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Posted: 4/18/2022 11:59:35 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Veccio: What causes you to think Russia will win? Where are they going to get all the manpower and equipment to replace all their losses? Their economy is in a nosedive, they can't replace the equipment they are losing, they can't make anywhere near enough PGMs, the personnel they are bringing in to reconstitute are from the far east wearing rubber boots, the IPE the average troop is now being issued is garbage, and they can't move enough fuel/material because their logistics sucks. If they launch even one nuke their entire military and most of their population will cease to exist. Where is the winning hand for them here? |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:01:41 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: You know who this is? https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2014/04/04/awlaki1-a561455dead7eaa938a1f0ff3dfc398355b97743-s1100-c50.jpg Chong? |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:05:47 AM EDT
[#23]
What are grads?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:05:48 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BUCC_Guy: They have assloads of material. No matter what guesstimate we make about the failure rate or maintenance issues, their fieldable heavy equipment dwarfs Ukraine's. There's trainloads of heavy equipment on the way, and even if it's only a fraction of their reported amounts, it still outweigh's UA's trickle from the west. I want Russia to get its shit pushed in, but they don't care about personnel losses and they can swallow failure for months. The Ukrainians can't take the losses. There is no "good" outcome for them. They get bogged down in an insurgency if UA forces falter. Possible coup if they turn tail and run. The only face-saving move is to secure the east, double-down on Crimean border, and claim victory. UA says that aint an option. Historically, they've had no problem throwing bodies and shit equipment around until they get results. Yes, there's plenty of footage of shit equipment, from their boots to rotten food. But this is also an entity that would send conscripts in with knockoff Adidas and a Mosin if they had to... and they'd field more bodies than UA. There's no good outcome for any party here, because anything other than "my bad, I'll go home now" is a shit show. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BUCC_Guy: Originally Posted By Veccio: Originally Posted By FALFOX: LOL. Wait and watch. Their economy is in a nosedive, they can't replace the equipment they are losing, they can't make anywhere near enough PGMs, the personnel they are bringing in to reconstitute are from the far east wearing rubber boots, the IPE the average troop is now being issued is garbage, and they can't move enough fuel/material because their logistics sucks. If they launch even one nuke their entire military and most of their population will cease to exist. Where is the winning hand for them here? They have assloads of material. No matter what guesstimate we make about the failure rate or maintenance issues, their fieldable heavy equipment dwarfs Ukraine's. There's trainloads of heavy equipment on the way, and even if it's only a fraction of their reported amounts, it still outweigh's UA's trickle from the west. I want Russia to get its shit pushed in, but they don't care about personnel losses and they can swallow failure for months. The Ukrainians can't take the losses. There is no "good" outcome for them. They get bogged down in an insurgency if UA forces falter. Possible coup if they turn tail and run. The only face-saving move is to secure the east, double-down on Crimean border, and claim victory. UA says that aint an option. Historically, they've had no problem throwing bodies and shit equipment around until they get results. Yes, there's plenty of footage of shit equipment, from their boots to rotten food. But this is also an entity that would send conscripts in with knockoff Adidas and a Mosin if they had to... and they'd field more bodies than UA. There's no good outcome for any party here, because anything other than "my bad, I'll go home now" is a shit show. The problem is, this isn't 1944 when the Germans ran out of bullets faster than the Russians ran out of men. Russia does not have an endless supply of men. They have quite a large supply of obsolete equipment - but given than T-72B3s are being taken out by 30mm guns, do you think refurbed T-64s and T-62s are going to do any better? The Russians have two real advantages - conventional long range missiles and artillery. They won't win the war with long range missiles and their artillery is going to be fodder for the drones Ukraine is getting. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:08:45 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cpermd: What are grads? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM-21_Grad |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:08:45 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALFOX: Perhaps they cannot win, but if they cannot seize Ukraine they may be content to rule over the ashes as has already been suggested. We'll know soon enough how this is going to go. If Russia can't have Ukraine's industrial infrastructure intact - along with what amounts to slave labor to work within - they'll happily take the country for the resources and kill every last inhabitant. This is what many people fail to realize or acknowledge. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:10:41 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreenMushroom: Very well put. The Russians are going to try and fix Ukrainian units and maul them. The Ukrainians are going to try and use there superior mobility and command and control to isolate and destroy Russian units without becoming a stationary target. Western Intel is a huge factor on the Ukrainian side probably equal to the weapons being supplied. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreenMushroom: Originally Posted By kncook: The one thing Grads are good at is leveling fixed positions, buildings, and city blocks. If it’s a moving offensive that doesn’t get bogged down first the grads and Russians aren’t the quickest or most nimble. Very well put. The Russians are going to try and fix Ukrainian units and maul them. The Ukrainians are going to try and use there superior mobility and command and control to isolate and destroy Russian units without becoming a stationary target. Western Intel is a huge factor on the Ukrainian side probably equal to the weapons being supplied. I hope its enough. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:11:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ServusVeritatis]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cpermd: What are grads? MLRS Multi-Launch Rocket System The old looking trucks with all the rocket tubes on the back. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:12:52 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnalogKid: If Russia can't have Ukraine's industrial infrastructure intact - along with what amounts to slave labor to work within - they'll happily take the country for the resources and kill every last inhabitant. This is what many people fail to realize or acknowledge. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnalogKid: Originally Posted By FALFOX: Perhaps they cannot win, but if they cannot seize Ukraine they may be content to rule over the ashes as has already been suggested. We'll know soon enough how this is going to go. If Russia can't have Ukraine's industrial infrastructure intact - along with what amounts to slave labor to work within - they'll happily take the country for the resources and kill every last inhabitant. This is what many people fail to realize or acknowledge. As long as a million Russians die trying I think Ukraine will tell them to try. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:14:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Glock63]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: Yea it’s pretty bad. The perception of many long term members on the site has definitely changed for me. We got some good people. We also have some people that need a lobotomy. Yes its that bad. Some of the other threads make me sick. I didn't realize we had so many dumbfucks here. Some are ten plus year members. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:14:38 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnalogKid: If Russia can't have Ukraine's industrial infrastructure intact - along with what amounts to slave labor to work within - they'll happily take the country for the resources and kill every last inhabitant. This is what many people fail to realize or acknowledge. If you were wondering why Ukrainians are resisting, that’s why. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:18:42 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BUCC_Guy: They have assloads of material. No matter what guesstimate we make about the failure rate or maintenance issues, their fieldable heavy equipment dwarfs Ukraine's. There's trainloads of heavy equipment on the way, and even if it's only a fraction of their reported amounts, it still outweigh's UA's trickle from the west. I want Russia to get its shit pushed in, but they don't care about personnel losses and they can swallow failure for months. The Ukrainians can't take the losses. There is no "good" outcome for them. They get bogged down in an insurgency if UA forces falter. Possible coup if they turn tail and run. The only face-saving move is to secure the east, double-down on Crimean border, and claim victory. UA says that aint an option. Historically, they've had no problem throwing bodies and shit equipment around until they get results. Yes, there's plenty of footage of shit equipment, from their boots to rotten food. But this is also an entity that would send conscripts in with knockoff Adidas and a Mosin if they had to... and they'd field more bodies than UA. There's no good outcome for any party here, because anything other than "my bad, I'll go home now" is a shit show. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BUCC_Guy: Originally Posted By Veccio: Originally Posted By FALFOX: LOL. Wait and watch. Their economy is in a nosedive, they can't replace the equipment they are losing, they can't make anywhere near enough PGMs, the personnel they are bringing in to reconstitute are from the far east wearing rubber boots, the IPE the average troop is now being issued is garbage, and they can't move enough fuel/material because their logistics sucks. If they launch even one nuke their entire military and most of their population will cease to exist. Where is the winning hand for them here? They have assloads of material. No matter what guesstimate we make about the failure rate or maintenance issues, their fieldable heavy equipment dwarfs Ukraine's. There's trainloads of heavy equipment on the way, and even if it's only a fraction of their reported amounts, it still outweigh's UA's trickle from the west. I want Russia to get its shit pushed in, but they don't care about personnel losses and they can swallow failure for months. The Ukrainians can't take the losses. There is no "good" outcome for them. They get bogged down in an insurgency if UA forces falter. Possible coup if they turn tail and run. The only face-saving move is to secure the east, double-down on Crimean border, and claim victory. UA says that aint an option. Historically, they've had no problem throwing bodies and shit equipment around until they get results. Yes, there's plenty of footage of shit equipment, from their boots to rotten food. But this is also an entity that would send conscripts in with knockoff Adidas and a Mosin if they had to... and they'd field more bodies than UA. There's no good outcome for any party here, because anything other than "my bad, I'll go home now" is a shit show. The older equipment is less reliable, harder to get running and harder to keep running. Less likely to have usable parts laying around. Less likely to have people who can work on it due to Russias turn over. Also, the Ukraine isn’t Russias only hotspot they’re dealing with. They still have to maintain a force across their country. If they commit everything they have to the Ukrainian battle field, they’ll be extremely weak elsewhere. Also, cost vs reward. If Russia blows 30+ years of ammo, vehicles and man power in this war. They’re going to be useless for 30-40 years. No longer a major threat. Just another bunch of idiots with nukes, essentially, a bigger Pakistani or North Korea. Isolate, alone, with a dying population. Russia can’t sustain this forever, neither can the Ukraine. But currently, the Ukrainian military is making the orcs bleed by a casual estimate of about 3.5 deaths to 1 death. The Ukraine doesn’t have 350,000 people to throw at this militarily. But Russia isn’t going to lose 1m men and equipment over it either. Russia has a bleed out point. We just don’t know where it’s at yet. 50k? 100k? 200k? Add in approximately 3x the wounded. 50k deaths would also mean 150k wounded / captured. As Russias more experienced forces get killed off, their casualties are going to climb faster and faster. Older equipment, supplies, etc just means they’re going to have more casualties faster. The more this war drags on. The more helicopters fall out of the sky from lack of maintenance. More planes crash from bad tires. Etc. Where is Russia’s bleed out point? As throwing all 1.2m men into this grinder isn’t going to happen. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:21:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AROKIE]
[#33]
Does Ukraine have any obligation to pay any of the billions loaned so far back?. That is of course they prevail
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:21:58 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead: I checked it today after having been only in this thread and immediately regretted it. Yes it's that bad. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead: Originally Posted By Zam18th: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By RogueShot12er: Originally Posted By Tuco22: Can this thread go back to being news and stuff. That'd be great. So like page 10? This is just a Ukraine rah rah thread. Nothing wrong with that just don't expect unbiased information if you are following it. It is what it is. 90% of Arfcom is either indifferent or pro Russia. This is really the only thread that is somewhat pro Ukraine. GD is more pro Russia than my Russian wife. It's pathetic. Damn. Is it really that bad? I've been mostly avoiding it out of fear I'll lose a lot of respect for members or this community. I checked it today after having been only in this thread and immediately regretted it. Yes it's that bad. It's bad, but my local real life acquaintances are even worse. I left a conservative gathering last month over the pro Russia parroting, convinced that at some future point we may come to violence over irreconcilable differences. They basically accused anyone not embracing Team Russia of being hostile, and brainwashed, and implied that during an emergency they'd just come help themselves to our preps. Maybe they were joking, but I now have to consider the possibility that I might have to use lethal force to defend myself and family from them at that point. I've cut off all communications cold, and hopefully they'll just move on now. However, I'm glad to have learned their true colors now instead of after a big SHTF event, when I may have hoped for their help. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:23:39 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cpermd: What are grads? BM-21 Grad Similar to our MLRS |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:26:56 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: Where is Russia’s bleed out point? As throwing all 1.2m men into this grinder isn’t going to happen. As long as Russia has the ability to hit Ukraine with strategic aircraft and SLCM/SRBM/IRBMs, they'll continue to press this. Take away their force projection capabilities along with a significant portion of their mechanized army and they either quit, or they nuke. |
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UKR
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:27:02 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NBCMarine: Sigh. If your homeland is one corrupt politician/govt/dictator/genocide/dirty war/holodomor shit show after another perhaps it’s wiser to find another homeland you know like your ancestors and the ancestors of most of this country did. Unless you have two potatoes, that might be worth dying for.  Dude went full pelosi |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:27:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AROKIE]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TTTSNB: let's take a minute to review the Russian doctrine on use of nuclear force. Putin made a decree about it in June 2020, paragbraph 19: https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2021/04/29/russian_nuclear_doctrine_force_expansion_and_nuclear_deterrence_774957.html observations: 1. they respond to an attack on their allies. so if Iran attacks a country and starts a war, and Russia joins them as an ally, and whoever attack Iran with a ballistic missile, then Russia launches nukes at them. the same scenario if China attacks Taiwan and Russia becomes their ally. or if Poland attacks Belarus, who is already their ally. 2. they said if their "nuclear forces" are compromised, not "strategic nuclear forces". that poses two problems. one, it includes their tactical nuclear weapons on the battlefield. destroying them gets a nuclear response. and two, practically all of their missile systems and lots of big artillery are dual capable between conventional and nuclear warheads. so if those are attacked with conventional weapons as part of conventional warfare, Russia considers it an attack on their nuclear forces, so they launch a nuclear response. 3. a cyber attack on their nuclear command and control gets a nuclear response. 4. do economic sanctions that result in the collapse of their ecomony, put the existence of Russia in jeopardy? and therefore result in a nuclear strike? 5. nothing about their doctrine prevents the use of a pre-emptive strike. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TTTSNB: let's take a minute to review the Russian doctrine on use of nuclear force. Putin made a decree about it in June 2020, paragbraph 19: 19. The conditions specifying the possibility of nuclear weapons use by the Russian Federation are as follows: a) arrival of reliable data on a launch of ballistic missiles attacking the territory of the Russian Federation and/or its allies; b) use of nuclear weapons or other types of weapons of mass destruction by an adversary against the Russian Federation and/or its allies; c) attack by an adversary against critical governmental or military sites of the Russian Federation, disruption of which would undermine nuclear forces response actions; d) aggression against the Russian Federation with the use of conventional weapons when the very existence of the state is in jeopardy. https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2021/04/29/russian_nuclear_doctrine_force_expansion_and_nuclear_deterrence_774957.html observations: 1. they respond to an attack on their allies. so if Iran attacks a country and starts a war, and Russia joins them as an ally, and whoever attack Iran with a ballistic missile, then Russia launches nukes at them. the same scenario if China attacks Taiwan and Russia becomes their ally. or if Poland attacks Belarus, who is already their ally. 2. they said if their "nuclear forces" are compromised, not "strategic nuclear forces". that poses two problems. one, it includes their tactical nuclear weapons on the battlefield. destroying them gets a nuclear response. and two, practically all of their missile systems and lots of big artillery are dual capable between conventional and nuclear warheads. so if those are attacked with conventional weapons as part of conventional warfare, Russia considers it an attack on their nuclear forces, so they launch a nuclear response. 3. a cyber attack on their nuclear command and control gets a nuclear response. 4. do economic sanctions that result in the collapse of their ecomony, put the existence of Russia in jeopardy? and therefore result in a nuclear strike? 5. nothing about their doctrine prevents the use of a pre-emptive strike. None of that means they will. There is still some in the Kremlin that don't want that. We would see major cracks appear in Russia before we get to nuking shit. We are far from that |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:29:18 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Does Ukraine have any obligation to pay any of the billions loaned so far back?. That is of course they prevail This loans are literally going to dismantling russias war fighting capability. We’d do it for free. Cost/benefit ratio is probably better than any piece of hardware in our military. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:36:27 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cpermd: What are grads? Russian MLRS |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:39:06 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BUCC_Guy: They have assloads of material. No matter what guesstimate we make about the failure rate or maintenance issues, their fieldable heavy equipment dwarfs Ukraine's. There's trainloads of heavy equipment on the way, and even if it's only a fraction of their reported amounts, it still outweigh's UA's trickle from the west. I want Russia to get its shit pushed in, but they don't care about personnel losses and they can swallow failure for months. The Ukrainians can't take the losses. There is no "good" outcome for them. They get bogged down in an insurgency if UA forces falter. Possible coup if they turn tail and run. The only face-saving move is to secure the east, double-down on Crimean border, and claim victory. UA says that aint an option. Historically, they've had no problem throwing bodies and shit equipment around until they get results. Yes, there's plenty of footage of shit equipment, from their boots to rotten food. But this is also an entity that would send conscripts in with knockoff Adidas and a Mosin if they had to... and they'd field more bodies than UA. There's no good outcome for any party here, because anything other than "my bad, I'll go home now" is a shit show. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BUCC_Guy: Originally Posted By Veccio: Originally Posted By FALFOX: LOL. Wait and watch. Their economy is in a nosedive, they can't replace the equipment they are losing, they can't make anywhere near enough PGMs, the personnel they are bringing in to reconstitute are from the far east wearing rubber boots, the IPE the average troop is now being issued is garbage, and they can't move enough fuel/material because their logistics sucks. If they launch even one nuke their entire military and most of their population will cease to exist. Where is the winning hand for them here? They have assloads of material. No matter what guesstimate we make about the failure rate or maintenance issues, their fieldable heavy equipment dwarfs Ukraine's. There's trainloads of heavy equipment on the way, and even if it's only a fraction of their reported amounts, it still outweigh's UA's trickle from the west. I want Russia to get its shit pushed in, but they don't care about personnel losses and they can swallow failure for months. The Ukrainians can't take the losses. There is no "good" outcome for them. They get bogged down in an insurgency if UA forces falter. Possible coup if they turn tail and run. The only face-saving move is to secure the east, double-down on Crimean border, and claim victory. UA says that aint an option. Historically, they've had no problem throwing bodies and shit equipment around until they get results. Yes, there's plenty of footage of shit equipment, from their boots to rotten food. But this is also an entity that would send conscripts in with knockoff Adidas and a Mosin if they had to... and they'd field more bodies than UA. There's no good outcome for any party here, because anything other than "my bad, I'll go home now" is a shit show. The Russians don't have assloads of *functional* materiel, equipment, heavy weapons, SAMs, aircraft, PGMs, etc. They've consumed a HUGE portion of all of that. Same with manpower. They simply don't have the manpower that Ukraine can field. While Russia has a larger population, they can't use forces they presently have guarding the chicken coup against those rascally NATO forces because paranoia. So, they are limited in what they can devote to Ukraine. If they start moving forces from the Chinese border, the Chinese will take that as an opportune time to settle long-running border disputes. The Russians will eventually withdraw. The question is when and how badly they will be mauled before they do. Their economy is toast regardless. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:39:30 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grambosc: It's bad, but my local real life acquaintances are even worse. I left a conservative gathering last month over the pro Russia parroting, convinced that at some future point we may come to violence over irreconcilable differences. They basically accused anyone not embracing Team Russia of being hostile, and brainwashed, and implied that during an emergency they'd just come help themselves to our preps. Maybe they were joking, but I now have to consider the possibility that I might have to use lethal force to defend myself and family from them at that point. I've cut off all communications cold, and hopefully they'll just move on now. However, I'm glad to have learned their true colors now instead of after a big SHTF event, when I may have hoped for their help. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grambosc: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: Originally Posted By Zam18th: Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By RogueShot12er: Originally Posted By Tuco22: Can this thread go back to being news and stuff. That'd be great. So like page 10? This is just a Ukraine rah rah thread. Nothing wrong with that just don't expect unbiased information if you are following it. It is what it is. 90% of Arfcom is either indifferent or pro Russia. This is really the only thread that is somewhat pro Ukraine. GD is more pro Russia than my Russian wife. It's pathetic. Damn. Is it really that bad? I've been mostly avoiding it out of fear I'll lose a lot of respect for members or this community. I checked it today after having been only in this thread and immediately regretted it. Yes it's that bad. It's bad, but my local real life acquaintances are even worse. I left a conservative gathering last month over the pro Russia parroting, convinced that at some future point we may come to violence over irreconcilable differences. They basically accused anyone not embracing Team Russia of being hostile, and brainwashed, and implied that during an emergency they'd just come help themselves to our preps. Maybe they were joking, but I now have to consider the possibility that I might have to use lethal force to defend myself and family from them at that point. I've cut off all communications cold, and hopefully they'll just move on now. However, I'm glad to have learned their true colors now instead of after a big SHTF event, when I may have hoped for their help. I'm embracing the snowbird life now that I'm officially retired. I hang out with my younger Brother at the grass airstrip he is at and help him with his aviation business when needed. We have a very large group of friends/aquaintences. I've been pleasantly surprised that everyone who's been by the hangar in the last two weeks is hugely anti russian. It helps it's a heavy .mil area. Even all my wackadoodle neighbors in Florida are pro Ukraine. Heck one was flying a Ukraine flag until some asshole took it. He did text me and told me he just got a replacement. I just shrug my shoulders at the stupid and walk away. As my mom, a lifelong social worker says..."You shouldn't argue with retards"  |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:44:40 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Does Ukraine have any obligation to pay any of the billions loaned so far back?. That is of course they prevail They’re fighting our (certainly Europe’s) fight. We should be paying them. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:45:21 AM EDT
[#44]
 Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:52:12 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BUCC_Guy: They have assloads of material. No matter what guesstimate we make about the failure rate or maintenance issues, their fieldable heavy equipment dwarfs Ukraine's. There's trainloads of heavy equipment on the way, and even if it's only a fraction of their reported amounts, it still outweigh's UA's trickle from the west. I want Russia to get its shit pushed in, but they don't care about personnel losses and they can swallow failure for months. The Ukrainians can't take the losses. There is no "good" outcome for them. They get bogged down in an insurgency if UA forces falter. Possible coup if they turn tail and run. The only face-saving move is to secure the east, double-down on Crimean border, and claim victory. UA says that aint an option. Historically, they've had no problem throwing bodies and shit equipment around until they get results. Yes, there's plenty of footage of shit equipment, from their boots to rotten food. But this is also an entity that would send conscripts in with knockoff Adidas and a Mosin if they had to... and they'd field more bodies than UA. There's no good outcome for any party here, because anything other than "my bad, I'll go home now" is a shit show. If Ukraine forces can shut down the fuel supply the equipment is useless. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:54:08 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grambosc: It's bad, but my local real life acquaintances are even worse. I left a conservative gathering last month over the pro Russia parroting, convinced that at some future point we may come to violence over irreconcilable differences. They basically accused anyone not embracing Team Russia of being hostile, and brainwashed, and implied that during an emergency they'd just come help themselves to our preps. Maybe they were joking, but I now have to consider the possibility that I might have to use lethal force to defend myself and family from them at that point. I've cut off all communications cold, and hopefully they'll just move on now. However, I'm glad to have learned their true colors now instead of after a big SHTF event, when I may have hoped for their help. all of my conservative friends/family are "fuck vlad" the few rinos and libs in my life are also "fuck vlad" I don't comprehend anyone taking a different position on this. did thy also back Saddam Hussein invading Kuwait? |
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UKR
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:58:01 AM EDT
[#47]
We know Russia has 76 BTGs in Donbas. What is opposing them?
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IA, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 1:01:08 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Yobro512: This loans are literally going to dismantling russias war fighting capability. We’d do it for free. Cost/benefit ratio is probably better than any piece of hardware in our military. bingo |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 1:21:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Jack67]
[#49]
Quote HistoryThis is actually interesting. The first two vehicles are not T-72s, they are T-80s. Without looking harder, you can identify them by the engine noise (they are turbine) and the exhaust ports on the rear. These were noted as “missing” from the Orc OOB during the initial period of the war. They are more capable, but logistically much more intense to feed (like an Abrams). Presuming this is “in-country,” it indicates they’ve mobilized and transported some tier-1 units - what they have left - and hints they are all-in as we’ve suspected. Also, these are more likely to be fully manned, and with working ERA vs. the defective, empty units seen on destroyed T-72s elsewhere. This doesn’t imply these are uber-elite units who the Ukrainians have no chance against; it’s just an observation. They are still fighting from exterior LOCs, have poor morale, and in fact may be more vulnerable if the log. train can’t keep flowing as we’ve seen before. T-80s have been in the fight before so this is not “breaking news,” but it’s a notable. The loss of another couple division’s worth of front-line armor like this would just break the offensive back of the Russian army. Fingers crossed. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 1:22:40 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By racer765: all of my conservative friends/family are "fuck vlad" the few rinos and libs in my life are also "fuck vlad" I don't comprehend anyone taking a different position on this. did thy also back Saddam Hussein invading Kuwait? I can't comprehend it either. I think a lot of them are just eaten up with the Q psyop, but that seems like an oversimplified excuse for it. Outside of church, they seem to have lost it locally. |
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