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Posted: 10/27/2021 8:27:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: The_Beer_Slayer]
This is now the active "shit News links, thanks to BerettaGuy: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: LINKS TO UKRAINIAN NEWS SOURCES IN ENGLISH Kyiv Post Ukrainian News UKRInform EUROMAIDEN PRESS New Voice of Ukraine Kyiv Independent Ukraine World InterFax Ukraine UATV Ukrainian Journal Official Website of the President of Ukraine Ukrainian Ministry of Defense Save these links. I can't post all the headlines like I've done in the past - too much news and too often. Please @ me with additional stuff to be added here. I don't currently have time to properly curate this thread otherwise. New news link c/o berettaguy: Ukrainian Pravda https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/ Stop fake, anti - disinformation site: https://www.stopfake.org/en/main/ |
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USA
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Posted: 2/22/2022 2:40:09 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dillydilly: Mere scraps, just to keep masses thinking he actually cares… Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dillydilly: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: No actually they haven’t. Most Russians are enjoying the highest rise in standard of living under him. Mere scraps, just to keep masses thinking he actually cares… Which is the status quo in most countries. |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 2:45:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Old_Fashioned]
[#2]
If they succeed in grabbing those breakaway regions in full, including the parts currently held by Ukraine, does it complete overland access to Crimea and allow them to open the dam to supply water again?
If not this isn’t over. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2022 2:47:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: JBobM]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Old_Fashioned: If they succeed in grabbing those breakaway regions in full, including the parts currently held by Ukraine, does it complete overland access to Crimea and allow them to open the dam to supply water again? If not this isn’t over. No, they would need to take at least two more provinces. Two more after that would get them all the way to Transnistria. But would be very exposed. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2022 2:48:14 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Old_Fashioned: If they succeed in grabbing those breakaway regions in full, including the parts currently held by Ukraine, does it complete overland access to Crimea and allow them to open the dam to supply water again? If not this isn’t over. It doesn't, not even close |
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JPN
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Posted: 2/22/2022 3:00:42 AM EDT
[#5]
Seems like the financial markets and the people I know who work in crypto have reacted and as long as Putin doesn't go any further the markets should bounce back, everyone seems to think this is over now?
Has all this been about recognizing the separatist areas? |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 3:02:11 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dillydilly: Mere scraps, just to keep masses thinking he actually cares… Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dillydilly: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: No actually they haven’t. Most Russians are enjoying the highest rise in standard of living under him. Mere scraps, just to keep masses thinking he actually cares… there average monthly income has tripled under putin, he is pumping cash into all russians pockets and they are happy |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2022 3:06:25 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SheltiePimp: Seems like the financial markets and the people I know who work in crypto have reacted and as long as Putin doesn't go any further the markets should bounce back, everyone seems to think this is over now? Has all this been about recognizing the separatist areas? We don't know. But I seriously doubt this is about recognizing separatist areas. Don't bet money on this being over |
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USA
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Posted: 2/22/2022 3:07:06 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SheltiePimp: Seems like the financial markets and the people I know who work in crypto have reacted and as long as Putin doesn't go any further the markets should bounce back, everyone seems to think this is over now? Has all this been about recognizing the separatist areas? It’s his smartest move at the moment. To go any further would be counterproductive. |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 3:09:41 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: They would lose. No standing army would set foot here without getting nuke slapped. Think about it. We are nit ukraine..goodgrief Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By stanprophet09: Originally Posted By nocomply: That will never happen. Well everyone says shit like that before crazy stuff happens. Many people here said the same thing about the Russians going into Ukraine. Now unlikely yes. If China and Russia decided to team up and take us on, we would loose. Plain and simple. They would lose. No standing army would set foot here without getting nuke slapped. Think about it. We are nit ukraine..goodgrief Everyone would lose. Whether there will be a nuclear war some day, but I know for sure there won't be a limited one. |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 3:13:43 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nickmemphis: Everyone would lose. Whether there will be a nuclear war some day, but I know for sure there won't be a limited one. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nickmemphis: Originally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By stanprophet09: Originally Posted By nocomply: That will never happen. Well everyone says shit like that before crazy stuff happens. Many people here said the same thing about the Russians going into Ukraine. Now unlikely yes. If China and Russia decided to team up and take us on, we would loose. Plain and simple. They would lose. No standing army would set foot here without getting nuke slapped. Think about it. We are nit ukraine..goodgrief Everyone would lose. Whether there will be a nuclear war some day, but I know for sure there won't be a limited one. what makes you think there wouldnt be a limited nuke strike? part of russian doctrine weighs on the use of tactical nukes |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2022 3:19:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Klay]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ar15joe: Not come out ahead at this point? Russia is going to or already have waltzed into L and D and taken territory, basically without firing a shot. AND without being branded as an "true invasion" by NATO or the USA LOL as I pointed out earlier, anyone with foreknowledge of these market swings caused by Russian flip flop statements has made BILLIONS already playing both sides of the market Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ar15joe: Originally Posted By Klay: Originally Posted By ar15joe: Originally Posted By @Klay: Your argument makes no sense. Regardless if they are communists or not, there is a cost for fuel. Russia doesn't get fuel for free because it came from within its borders in its raw form. They still pay companies/workers to mine/dig it up and to refine it. Plus, the point he made that went right over your head is because it is a commodity, they lose out on the revenue of what they could have sold it for if they didn't use it. Using your logic, the US just needs to formally switch to communism to solve our fuel costs issues. It would become basically free for us magically. Russia doesn't use slave labor. They still pay companies to refine the fuel. They still have to spend money to extract the fuel in raw form. It may be cheaper since it came from within their borders but there still is a cost. I said "basically" free - relative cost is my point. Russians are doing exercises with their equipment. Probably something they have not done in 2.5 years. Why not leverage it. The resulting profits are basically FREE so what are your points of information? Basically free insinuates there is little costs for them to do all this. I find that laughable because moving a significant amount of your forces around and travelling thousands of miles is definitely not cheap. Especially a force that appears capable of an invasion. It isn't like Russia just moved some infantry units to Ukraine's border, they moved tanks, artillery, etc. That's not even taking into an account all the maintenance costs associated with moving all that armor. This is anything but a cheap endeavor for Russia. Now, they could come out ahead in the long run but definitely not at this point. Not come out ahead at this point? Russia is going to or already have waltzed into L and D and taken territory, basically without firing a shot. AND without being branded as an "true invasion" by NATO or the USA LOL as I pointed out earlier, anyone with foreknowledge of these market swings caused by Russian flip flop statements has made BILLIONS already playing both sides of the market Ok this is my last post addressing this since you are no longer maintaining the same argument I was refuting and I don't want to derail this thread. Taking land is not equal being ahead monetarily. That land COULD enable some financial gaines somehow but it hasn't at this point. Not too mention he hasn't taken it permanently yet. He made a decree and we shall see if Ukraine does anything to stop it. I don't have high hopes they can retake it by force. My main point was that Russia's endeavor into Ukraine was not basically free like you were postulating. There was a large costs for the buildup on their border and they may yet be a greater costs ahead. This is not over yet. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2022 3:21:03 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NBCMarine: It’s his smartest move at the moment. To go any further would be counterproductive. So you think all this posturing, the deployment of troops and ships over thousands of miles was done so Russia could recognize the independence of provinces they already control? That makes no sense |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 3:25:55 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstorms: So you think all this posturing, the deployment of troops and ships over thousands of miles was done so Russia could recognize the independence of provinces they already control? That makes no sense nothing russia does rarely makes sense |
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USA
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Posted: 2/22/2022 3:44:59 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstorms: So you think all this posturing, the deployment of troops and ships over thousands of miles was done so Russia could recognize the independence of provinces they already control? That makes no sense Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstorms: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: It’s his smartest move at the moment. To go any further would be counterproductive. So you think all this posturing, the deployment of troops and ships over thousands of miles was done so Russia could recognize the independence of provinces they already control? That makes no sense Taking over the parts of Ukraine openly hostile to Russia is problematic. What Vlad’s best option and most likely course will be is to put in a few footholds (similar to what they did with the Ossetians) making Ukraine in a forever low burn conflict. Once Nordstrom 2 is fully functional he will choke them economically until a favorable government is installed. If they move on the footholds they get smacked down like the Georgians got. |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 3:50:50 AM EDT
[#15]
Anyone have any guesses if biden drags our military into this war?
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Posted: 2/22/2022 3:59:12 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MADMAXXX: Anyone have any guesses if biden drags our military into this war? only if russia pushes on into a NATO ally, then we duty bound to defend them on Article 5 |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 4:08:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: brahm]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JCoop: Glad you posted this comment. I'm 48 minutes into the speech and holy shitballs, batman, this guy is nuts. This is very serious. Putin didn't sound crazy in his speech. He sounded like a 50s-60s-70s era soviet leader. There was a reason for duck and cover drills. lots of people have forgotten or are too young to remember the cold war. it was a real thing. putin is a product of a different time and culture. |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 4:12:29 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By outofbattery: The thing is,it’s not aimed at us. What we see as abject stupidity and completely laughable propaganda isn’t meant to convince us that Ukraine inexplicably invaded Russia with 2 guys -one with a helmet cam- running behind a freshly painted BTR but rather it’s for the wet brained home crowd. Russians are a bizarre,paranoid people whose national character is formed by alcoholism and centuries of battered wife syndrome. They paradoxically believe that everyone is lying and everyone is out to get them but also believe absolutely every stupid hoax and rumor no matter how outlandish it is. They are easy to understand when recognized as being nothing but a bunch of drunken cavemen with no emotional control who expect to be lied to because they lie and expect to be allowed to abuse others because they have been abused. The ~15% of Russians who are able to overcome their genetics and upbringing will never,ever have control of the country as the rest think they’re gay wimps or perfidious Jews and this is the sad truth of why Putin’s replacement will be no better.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 4:13:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AROKIE]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brahm: Putin didn't sound crazy in his speech. He sounded like a 50s-60s-70s era soviet leader. There was a reason for duck and cover drills. lots of people have forgotten or are too young to remember the cold war. it was a real thing. putin is a product of a different time and culture. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By brahm: Originally Posted By JCoop: Glad you posted this comment. I'm 48 minutes into the speech and holy shitballs, batman, this guy is nuts. This is very serious. Putin didn't sound crazy in his speech. He sounded like a 50s-60s-70s era soviet leader. There was a reason for duck and cover drills. lots of people have forgotten or are too young to remember the cold war. it was a real thing. putin is a product of a different time and culture. didnt you post this same thing a page or two back? lol edited. yep you did back on page 123 lol |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2022 4:16:36 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NBCMarine: Taking over the parts of Ukraine openly hostile to Russia is problematic. What Vlad’s best option and most likely course will be is to put in a few footholds (similar to what they did with the Ossetians) making Ukraine in a forever low burn conflict. Once Nordstrom 2 is fully functional he will choke them economically until a favorable government is installed. If they move on the footholds they get smacked down like the Georgians got. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NBCMarine: Originally Posted By tstorms: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: It’s his smartest move at the moment. To go any further would be counterproductive. So you think all this posturing, the deployment of troops and ships over thousands of miles was done so Russia could recognize the independence of provinces they already control? That makes no sense Taking over the parts of Ukraine openly hostile to Russia is problematic. What Vlad’s best option and most likely course will be is to put in a few footholds (similar to what they did with the Ossetians) making Ukraine in a forever low burn conflict. Once Nordstrom 2 is fully functional he will choke them economically until a favorable government is installed. If they move on the footholds they get smacked down like the Georgians got. You mean put in a few footholds they've had since 2014. They didn't need a huge build up to accomplish that. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2022 4:18:12 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: nothing russia does rarely makes sense What? LOL 😆 |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 4:22:11 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstorms: What? LOL 😆 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstorms: Originally Posted By AROKIE: nothing russia does rarely makes sense What? LOL 😆 am i wrong? lol |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2022 4:22:52 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstorms: You mean put in a few footholds they've had since 2014. They didn't need a huge build up to accomplish that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstorms: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: Originally Posted By tstorms: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: It’s his smartest move at the moment. To go any further would be counterproductive. So you think all this posturing, the deployment of troops and ships over thousands of miles was done so Russia could recognize the independence of provinces they already control? That makes no sense Taking over the parts of Ukraine openly hostile to Russia is problematic. What Vlad’s best option and most likely course will be is to put in a few footholds (similar to what they did with the Ossetians) making Ukraine in a forever low burn conflict. Once Nordstrom 2 is fully functional he will choke them economically until a favorable government is installed. If they move on the footholds they get smacked down like the Georgians got. You mean put in a few footholds they've had since 2014. They didn't need a huge build up to accomplish that. Need? No. Does the threat of a full scale invasion make the world sigh a breath of relief if it turns out to just be annexing “separatist” areas and call it a best case scenario instead of something that should be hardly condemned? Yes. I’m not saying Russia won’t go further, but if their goal really was to just more formally take those areas, this wouldn’t be a terrible way to do it. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2022 4:24:50 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: am i wrong? lol Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By tstorms: Originally Posted By AROKIE: nothing russia does rarely makes sense What? LOL 😆 am i wrong? lol Your 90% correct |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2022 4:26:02 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jDrexler: Need? No. Does the threat of a full scale invasion make the world sigh a breath of relief if it turns out to just be annexing “separatist” areas and call it a best case scenario instead of something that should be hardly condemned? Yes. I’m not saying Russia won’t go further, but if their goal really was to just more formally take those areas, this wouldn’t be a terrible way to do it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jDrexler: Originally Posted By tstorms: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: Originally Posted By tstorms: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: It’s his smartest move at the moment. To go any further would be counterproductive. So you think all this posturing, the deployment of troops and ships over thousands of miles was done so Russia could recognize the independence of provinces they already control? That makes no sense Taking over the parts of Ukraine openly hostile to Russia is problematic. What Vlad’s best option and most likely course will be is to put in a few footholds (similar to what they did with the Ossetians) making Ukraine in a forever low burn conflict. Once Nordstrom 2 is fully functional he will choke them economically until a favorable government is installed. If they move on the footholds they get smacked down like the Georgians got. You mean put in a few footholds they've had since 2014. They didn't need a huge build up to accomplish that. Need? No. Does the threat of a full scale invasion make the world sigh a breath of relief if it turns out to just be annexing “separatist” areas and call it a best case scenario instead of something that should be hardly condemned? Yes. I’m not saying Russia won’t go further, but if their goal really was to just more formally take those areas, this wouldn’t be a terrible way to do it. False he did not annex them. He recognized them as independent, killed the Minsk ceasefire agreement, and sent in troops. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2022 4:26:59 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jDrexler: Need? No. Does the threat of a full scale invasion make the world sigh a breath of relief if it turns out to just be annexing “separatist” areas and call it a best case scenario instead of something that should be hardly condemned? Yes. I’m not saying Russia won’t go further, but if their goal really was to just more formally take those areas, this wouldn’t be a terrible way to do it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jDrexler: Originally Posted By tstorms: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: Originally Posted By tstorms: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: It’s his smartest move at the moment. To go any further would be counterproductive. So you think all this posturing, the deployment of troops and ships over thousands of miles was done so Russia could recognize the independence of provinces they already control? That makes no sense Taking over the parts of Ukraine openly hostile to Russia is problematic. What Vlad’s best option and most likely course will be is to put in a few footholds (similar to what they did with the Ossetians) making Ukraine in a forever low burn conflict. Once Nordstrom 2 is fully functional he will choke them economically until a favorable government is installed. If they move on the footholds they get smacked down like the Georgians got. You mean put in a few footholds they've had since 2014. They didn't need a huge build up to accomplish that. Need? No. Does the threat of a full scale invasion make the world sigh a breath of relief if it turns out to just be annexing “separatist” areas and call it a best case scenario instead of something that should be hardly condemned? Yes. I’m not saying Russia won’t go further, but if their goal really was to just more formally take those areas, this wouldn’t be a terrible way to do it. Maybe, but they didn't need the threat of a full scale invasion to do that. They could have just declared it. The Ukrainians couldn't do shit about it |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 4:27:21 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: didnt you post this same thing a page or two back? lol edited. yep you did back on page 123 lol yes very similar post. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/22/2022 4:35:21 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstorms: You mean put in a few footholds they've had since 2014. They didn't need a huge build up to accomplish that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstorms: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: Originally Posted By tstorms: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: It’s his smartest move at the moment. To go any further would be counterproductive. So you think all this posturing, the deployment of troops and ships over thousands of miles was done so Russia could recognize the independence of provinces they already control? That makes no sense Taking over the parts of Ukraine openly hostile to Russia is problematic. What Vlad’s best option and most likely course will be is to put in a few footholds (similar to what they did with the Ossetians) making Ukraine in a forever low burn conflict. Once Nordstrom 2 is fully functional he will choke them economically until a favorable government is installed. If they move on the footholds they get smacked down like the Georgians got. You mean put in a few footholds they've had since 2014. They didn't need a huge build up to accomplish that. They did the same thing in Georgia and only made it official after the war. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2022 4:40:46 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NBCMarine: They did the same thing in Georgia and only made it official after the war. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NBCMarine: Originally Posted By tstorms: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: Originally Posted By tstorms: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: It’s his smartest move at the moment. To go any further would be counterproductive. So you think all this posturing, the deployment of troops and ships over thousands of miles was done so Russia could recognize the independence of provinces they already control? That makes no sense Taking over the parts of Ukraine openly hostile to Russia is problematic. What Vlad’s best option and most likely course will be is to put in a few footholds (similar to what they did with the Ossetians) making Ukraine in a forever low burn conflict. Once Nordstrom 2 is fully functional he will choke them economically until a favorable government is installed. If they move on the footholds they get smacked down like the Georgians got. You mean put in a few footholds they've had since 2014. They didn't need a huge build up to accomplish that. They did the same thing in Georgia and only made it official after the war. They have not annexed Abkhazia or South Ossetia either so far they only annexed Crimea. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/22/2022 4:43:34 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JBobM: They have not annexed Abkhazia or South Ossetia either so far they only annexed Crimea. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JBobM: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: Originally Posted By tstorms: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: Originally Posted By tstorms: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: It’s his smartest move at the moment. To go any further would be counterproductive. So you think all this posturing, the deployment of troops and ships over thousands of miles was done so Russia could recognize the independence of provinces they already control? That makes no sense Taking over the parts of Ukraine openly hostile to Russia is problematic. What Vlad’s best option and most likely course will be is to put in a few footholds (similar to what they did with the Ossetians) making Ukraine in a forever low burn conflict. Once Nordstrom 2 is fully functional he will choke them economically until a favorable government is installed. If they move on the footholds they get smacked down like the Georgians got. You mean put in a few footholds they've had since 2014. They didn't need a huge build up to accomplish that. They did the same thing in Georgia and only made it official after the war. They have not annexed Abkhazia or South Ossetia either so far they only annexed Crimea. Crimea was personal to them. |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 4:46:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Boedy]
[#31]
Well He will soon have reinforced positions that he gets to take without much effort. He can now move even deeper into the contested region and stage that much closer to the heart of Ukraine. Putin might just baby step his way all the way to Kiev knowing NATO wont call him for taking small chunks of land at at time. if Ukraine doesn't actively resist Putin's encroachments so as to not provoke a all out conflict Putin will just gain a lot of territory a small chunk at a time without the consequences of a full on attack that the west wouldn't be likely to ignore.
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IL, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2022 4:51:59 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NBCMarine: Taking over the parts of Ukraine openly hostile to Russia is problematic. What Vlad’s best option and most likely course will be is to put in a few footholds (similar to what they did with the Ossetians) making Ukraine in a forever low burn conflict. Once Nordstrom 2 is fully functional he will choke them economically until a favorable government is installed. If they move on the footholds they get smacked down like the Georgians got. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NBCMarine: Originally Posted By tstorms: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: It’s his smartest move at the moment. To go any further would be counterproductive. So you think all this posturing, the deployment of troops and ships over thousands of miles was done so Russia could recognize the independence of provinces they already control? That makes no sense Taking over the parts of Ukraine openly hostile to Russia is problematic. What Vlad’s best option and most likely course will be is to put in a few footholds (similar to what they did with the Ossetians) making Ukraine in a forever low burn conflict. Once Nordstrom 2 is fully functional he will choke them economically until a favorable government is installed. If they move on the footholds they get smacked down like the Georgians got. The idea that Russia would invade and occupy all of Ukraine has always been extremely unlikely. They lack the manpower to occupy a hostile country and still meet their other defense obligations and still have a viable fighting force at the same time. That's why they have only occupied and controlled territory that is friendly to Russia. Invading all of Ukraine would also unite the country against a foreign invader. Moving troops around Ukraine and Belarus and all the other saber rattling has been to put economic, political, and military pressure on Ukraine and NATO. These things go hand in hand and Putin's goal right now is to increase the pressure until Ukraine's government collapses. Capital is fleeing Ukraine and they are having to take on more loans when they are in no position to pay the loans they've taken since 2013. One of the major goals of Russia is to remove western influence in Ukraine and look what is happening. Western Diplomats and military advisors have fled to western Ukraine or out of the country entirely. Nordstream 2 is a red herring. Opening it up would actually ease supply issues and lower the price of gas in Europe and cause Russia some losses. Once NS2 is open Russia has to use it for long-term lower price contracts with companies they partnered with to build the pipeline. As long as the pipeline is not open, Russia can sell that gas on the open market and get paid the higher market spot price. Also, if the aim was to punish Russia why is no one talking about shutting down Nordstream 1? |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 4:54:44 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JohnT83: The idea that Russia would invade and occupy all of Ukraine has always been extremely unlikely. They lack the manpower to occupy a hostile country and still meet their other defense obligations and still have a viable fighting force at the same time. That's why they have only occupied and controlled territory that is friendly to Russia. Invading all of Ukraine would also unite the country against a foreign invader. Moving troops around Ukraine and Belarus and all the other saber rattling has been to put economic, political, and military pressure on Ukraine and NATO. These things go hand in hand and Putin's goal right now is to increase the pressure until Ukraine's government collapses. Capital is fleeing Ukraine and they are having to take on more loans when they are in no position to pay the loans they've taken since 2013. One of the major goals of Russia is to remove western influence in Ukraine and look what is happening. Western Diplomats and military advisors have fled to western Ukraine or out of the country entirely. Nordstream 2 is a red herring. Opening it up would actually ease supply issues and lower the price of gas in Europe and cause Russia some losses. Once NS2 is open Russia has to use it for long-term lower price contracts with companies they partnered with to build the pipeline. As long as the pipeline is not open, Russia can sell that gas on the open market and get paid the higher market spot price. Also, if the aim was to punish Russia why is no one talking about shutting down Nordstream 1? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JohnT83: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: Originally Posted By tstorms: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: It’s his smartest move at the moment. To go any further would be counterproductive. So you think all this posturing, the deployment of troops and ships over thousands of miles was done so Russia could recognize the independence of provinces they already control? That makes no sense Taking over the parts of Ukraine openly hostile to Russia is problematic. What Vlad’s best option and most likely course will be is to put in a few footholds (similar to what they did with the Ossetians) making Ukraine in a forever low burn conflict. Once Nordstrom 2 is fully functional he will choke them economically until a favorable government is installed. If they move on the footholds they get smacked down like the Georgians got. The idea that Russia would invade and occupy all of Ukraine has always been extremely unlikely. They lack the manpower to occupy a hostile country and still meet their other defense obligations and still have a viable fighting force at the same time. That's why they have only occupied and controlled territory that is friendly to Russia. Invading all of Ukraine would also unite the country against a foreign invader. Moving troops around Ukraine and Belarus and all the other saber rattling has been to put economic, political, and military pressure on Ukraine and NATO. These things go hand in hand and Putin's goal right now is to increase the pressure until Ukraine's government collapses. Capital is fleeing Ukraine and they are having to take on more loans when they are in no position to pay the loans they've taken since 2013. One of the major goals of Russia is to remove western influence in Ukraine and look what is happening. Western Diplomats and military advisors have fled to western Ukraine or out of the country entirely. Nordstream 2 is a red herring. Opening it up would actually ease supply issues and lower the price of gas in Europe and cause Russia some losses. Once NS2 is open Russia has to use it for long-term lower price contracts with companies they partnered with to build the pipeline. As long as the pipeline is not open, Russia can sell that gas on the open market and get paid the higher market spot price. Also, if the aim was to punish Russia why is no one talking about shutting down Nordstream 1? maybe that is coming? i truly dont know |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 5:06:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: NBCMarine]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JohnT83: The idea that Russia would invade and occupy all of Ukraine has always been extremely unlikely. They lack the manpower to occupy a hostile country and still meet their other defense obligations and still have a viable fighting force at the same time. That's why they have only occupied and controlled territory that is friendly to Russia. Invading all of Ukraine would also unite the country against a foreign invader. Moving troops around Ukraine and Belarus and all the other saber rattling has been to put economic, political, and military pressure on Ukraine and NATO. These things go hand in hand and Putin's goal right now is to increase the pressure until Ukraine's government collapses. Capital is fleeing Ukraine and they are having to take on more loans when they are in no position to pay the loans they've taken since 2013. One of the major goals of Russia is to remove western influence in Ukraine and look what is happening. Western Diplomats and military advisors have fled to western Ukraine or out of the country entirely. Nordstream 2 is a red herring. Opening it up would actually ease supply issues and lower the price of gas in Europe and cause Russia some losses. Once NS2 is open Russia has to use it for long-term lower price contracts with companies they partnered with to build the pipeline. As long as the pipeline is not open, Russia can sell that gas on the open market and get paid the higher market spot price. Also, if the aim was to punish Russia why is no one talking about shutting down Nordstream 1? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JohnT83: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: Originally Posted By tstorms: Originally Posted By NBCMarine: It’s his smartest move at the moment. To go any further would be counterproductive. So you think all this posturing, the deployment of troops and ships over thousands of miles was done so Russia could recognize the independence of provinces they already control? That makes no sense Taking over the parts of Ukraine openly hostile to Russia is problematic. What Vlad’s best option and most likely course will be is to put in a few footholds (similar to what they did with the Ossetians) making Ukraine in a forever low burn conflict. Once Nordstrom 2 is fully functional he will choke them economically until a favorable government is installed. If they move on the footholds they get smacked down like the Georgians got. The idea that Russia would invade and occupy all of Ukraine has always been extremely unlikely. They lack the manpower to occupy a hostile country and still meet their other defense obligations and still have a viable fighting force at the same time. That's why they have only occupied and controlled territory that is friendly to Russia. Invading all of Ukraine would also unite the country against a foreign invader. Moving troops around Ukraine and Belarus and all the other saber rattling has been to put economic, political, and military pressure on Ukraine and NATO. These things go hand in hand and Putin's goal right now is to increase the pressure until Ukraine's government collapses. Capital is fleeing Ukraine and they are having to take on more loans when they are in no position to pay the loans they've taken since 2013. One of the major goals of Russia is to remove western influence in Ukraine and look what is happening. Western Diplomats and military advisors have fled to western Ukraine or out of the country entirely. Nordstream 2 is a red herring. Opening it up would actually ease supply issues and lower the price of gas in Europe and cause Russia some losses. Once NS2 is open Russia has to use it for long-term lower price contracts with companies they partnered with to build the pipeline. As long as the pipeline is not open, Russia can sell that gas on the open market and get paid the higher market spot price. Also, if the aim was to punish Russia why is no one talking about shutting down Nordstream 1? I think NS2 is quite critical because Germany seems very uninterested to wade into Ukrainian politics atm. If you remember they were very active before. With Germany becoming Russia’s energy pal in Europe they can squeeze off the flow going to Eastern Europe via Ukraine. Thus Germany and Russia can go back to the pastime of screwing with all of the countries in between them. |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 6:08:58 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83:
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Finslayer83:
Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
These posts didn't get a lot of attention but are important. Rosgvardia is an element of the Russian reserve forces that were mobilized for the invasion. They are used for occupation and stability operations in the rear area. Their presence is an indicator that is planning on using the forces in Belarus for more than consolidating in DPR/LPR. |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 6:17:47 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fat_McNasty: FUCK! ASS!!  Son of bitch! Shit! |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 6:22:34 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AgeOne: to be fair, a big dead fish would be a terrible thing to have around ones neck. You can tuna albacore, but you can't tune a neck without paying for plastic surgery. |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 6:30:27 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sonoran_Tj: These posts didn't get a lot of attention but are important. Rosgvardia is an element of the Russian reserve forces that were mobilized for the invasion. They are used for occupation and stability operations in the rear area. Their presence is an indicator that is planning on using the forces in Belarus for more than consolidating in DPR/LPR. Looked like a lot of light armored internal security vehicles in that convoy. |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 6:50:49 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jackal-FnM: Was it really ever one? No one has ever really been communist, because it only actually works on paper, not in the real world where actual shit is done. |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 7:09:40 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JohnT83: The idea that Russia would invade and occupy all of Ukraine has always been extremely unlikely. They lack the manpower to occupy a hostile country and still meet their other defense obligations and still have a viable fighting force at the same time. That's why they have only occupied and controlled territory that is friendly to Russia. Invading all of Ukraine would also unite the country against a foreign invader. Moving troops around Ukraine and Belarus and all the other saber rattling has been to put economic, political, and military pressure on Ukraine and NATO. These things go hand in hand and Putin's goal right now is to increase the pressure until Ukraine's government collapses. Capital is fleeing Ukraine and they are having to take on more loans when they are in no position to pay the loans they've taken since 2013. One of the major goals of Russia is to remove western influence in Ukraine and look what is happening. Western Diplomats and military advisors have fled to western Ukraine or out of the country entirely. Nordstream 2 is a red herring. Opening it up would actually ease supply issues and lower the price of gas in Europe and cause Russia some losses. Once NS2 is open Russia has to use it for long-term lower price contracts with companies they partnered with to build the pipeline. As long as the pipeline is not open, Russia can sell that gas on the open market and get paid the higher market spot price. Also, if the aim was to punish Russia why is no one talking about shutting down Nordstream 1?  open a history book! |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 7:37:54 AM EDT
[#41]
This thread is kinda cool. I never knew arfcom had expert Russian/Ukraine relations people.
You guys sound like y’all have been planning this invasion and resistance for centuries… y’all appear to know everything about troop movements. Which 100 mile piece of land means the most. Which group of rebels will resist, with what and how hard. How do you guys do this? Lol |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 7:40:15 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: im going with you didnt listen to Putins 2 hour speech today huh?  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By motown_steve: If Putin thought there were going to be any repercussions, then he would not be doing this. He knows exactly how far he can push, and he's going to push up to the line where he knows there will be repercussions. im going with you didnt listen to Putins 2 hour speech today huh? All I can find on Youtube is one that was 58 minutes. Seemed like the full version. Is there actually a two hour version? |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 7:48:03 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: What Russia is doing is clunky and awkward and obvious -like everything Russia does. They cloak it all in lies, and people will call it maskirovka, even though we all see it. A National culture that is born from fetal-alcohol syndrome will never be impressive. But there are always those who lap it up. In this thread you've been playing the role of a Professor moderating and coaxing a classroom debate. It has and will continue to be appreciated. I for one would like to hear your predictions of how this will play out. What does Cincinnatus think will happen? |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 8:11:12 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SheltiePimp: Seems like the financial markets and the people I know who work in crypto have reacted and as long as Putin doesn't go any further the markets should bounce back, everyone seems to think this is over now? Has all this been about recognizing the separatist areas? Until the massive airdrop and landings at Odessa. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2022 8:12:15 AM EDT
[#45]
Interesting analysis from one of the geopolitical analysts I follow.
https://mailchi.mp/zeihan/ukraine-the-war-after-the-war |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 8:14:57 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: what makes you think there wouldnt be a limited nuke strike? part of russian doctrine weighs on the use of tactical nukes Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By nickmemphis: Originally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By stanprophet09: Originally Posted By nocomply: That will never happen. Well everyone says shit like that before crazy stuff happens. Many people here said the same thing about the Russians going into Ukraine. Now unlikely yes. If China and Russia decided to team up and take us on, we would loose. Plain and simple. They would lose. No standing army would set foot here without getting nuke slapped. Think about it. We are nit ukraine..goodgrief Everyone would lose. Whether there will be a nuclear war some day, but I know for sure there won't be a limited one. what makes you think there wouldnt be a limited nuke strike? part of russian doctrine weighs on the use of tactical nukes Truth. |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 8:20:34 AM EDT
[#47]
Putin's take on history may lay groundwork for war
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-russia-poland-vladimir-putin-f00872897f338dbedd857cd1d880e9d3 |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 8:22:27 AM EDT
[#48]
I doubt that Russia created a 190,000 man invasion task force, and mobilized occupation forces just to bluff Ukraine into letting them keep an area they have controlled since 2014.
I see no reason that Putin won’t take most of the country. If you LOOK at what is there, and what is happening, it looks that way. If you LISTEN to what Putin said, it sure sounds that way. All the Russian spokesmen have been telling lie after lie. However… has Putin? |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 8:24:18 AM EDT
[#49]
So much of The Ukraine would The Russia need to takeover before Ukrainians give up?
If they decide to go that route anyway? |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 8:33:47 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rca2222: All I can find on Youtube is one that was 58 minutes. Seemed like the full version. Is there actually a two hour version? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rca2222: Originally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By motown_steve: If Putin thought there were going to be any repercussions, then he would not be doing this. He knows exactly how far he can push, and he's going to push up to the line where he knows there will be repercussions. im going with you didnt listen to Putins 2 hour speech today huh? All I can find on Youtube is one that was 58 minutes. Seemed like the full version. Is there actually a two hour version? No I think it was only an hour I miss spoke seemed long to me lol |
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