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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:30:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Not today mr govt man not today
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:30:51 PM EDT
[#2]
IBTLAB
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:31:01 PM EDT
[#3]
No trip?
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:31:07 PM EDT
[#4]
This feels like a COC trap.
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:31:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Coat hanger.jpg
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:32:00 PM EDT
[#6]
haven't the atffags locked up some guys for those wall hanger things?
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:32:07 PM EDT
[#7]
In for discussion.
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:32:09 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not today mr govt man not today I'm genuinely curious. Obviously 80% forgings are perfectly legal, so there should be an 80% version of a DIAS, right? |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:32:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No trip? iirc the trip isnt the nfa part |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:32:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Coat hanger.jpg My impression is that those were fully complete, but made of some synthetic.  Or do you mean the twisted-up wire things? So are you saying the wire coat hanger is essentially an 80% DIAS? That's a funny point! 
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:33:13 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Has anyone tried to make one? (I would assume you'd have to an SOT or something in order to do this - just in case you go "too far" and accidentally make something that would be considered an MG or easily convertible - and then send a letter to the ATF for a technical ruling). Logically, just like an 80% receiver, there MUST be a point where some metal parts are not a DIAS (but a few hours of work could turn them into one), and those could then be sold freely to any AR owner who wants one. Has this ever been done? Has anyone tried, and been raped by the ATF? Yeah, the dudes that got arrested for both the "credit card" style one and the "coat hanger" style one. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:33:49 PM EDT
[#12]
This seems like bait.
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:34:09 PM EDT
[#13]
80% dias right here
timing will need some work but the idea is there 
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:34:10 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm genuinely curious. Obviously 80% forgings are perfectly legal, so there should be an 80% version of a DIAS, right? Hold muh beer though.... 
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:34:39 PM EDT
[#15]
dunno about a dias, but here's what an 80% LL looks like
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:34:45 PM EDT
[#16]
This thread glows.
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:34:54 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:35:11 PM EDT
[#18]
IIRC someone made lightning link biz cards years ago. Which was just a piece of sheet metal with an engraving of what a lightning link should be and they got raped by the ATF.
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:35:36 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, the dudes that got arrested for both the "credit card" style one and the "coat hanger" style one. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Has anyone tried to make one? (I would assume you'd have to an SOT or something in order to do this - just in case you go "too far" and accidentally make something that would be considered an MG or easily convertible - and then send a letter to the ATF for a technical ruling). Logically, just like an 80% receiver, there MUST be a point where some metal parts are not a DIAS (but a few hours of work could turn them into one), and those could then be sold freely to any AR owner who wants one. Has this ever been done? Has anyone tried, and been raped by the ATF? Yeah, the dudes that got arrested for both the "credit card" style one and the "coat hanger" style one. I knew about the credit card lightening link - but I thought the 3D printed red "coat hanger" things were pretty much complete. When I search for "coat hanger DIAS" I get the twisted wire coat hangers, not the red/black 3D printed ones.
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:36:24 PM EDT
[#20]
Father Boog has been a glowie the whole time!!!
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:36:27 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My guess is butt rape for anybody who attempts to try and gets caught. Hold muh beer though.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm genuinely curious. Obviously 80% forgings are perfectly legal, so there should be an 80% version of a DIAS, right? Hold muh beer though.... That's why I figure that anyone who tried to develop/make one, would HAVE to be an SOT/FFL, to avoid the butt rape. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:36:46 PM EDT
[#22]
Probably something that if you cut off a piece would work as a dias
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:36:55 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:36:57 PM EDT
[#24]
I saw an 80% Lightning Link once. It had tabs on the outside of the body so that you couldn't fit it in the cavity of the lower. I'd say the same would apply with a DIAS.
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:37:03 PM EDT
[#25]
I would think a "U" shaped bock that fit the rear of the receiver would be it. No pivot pin hole drilled, no clearance in the front part of the "U" for the trip lever.
I also wouldn't try it without an SOT. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:38:21 PM EDT
[#26]
Site Staff glow so bright!
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:39:07 PM EDT
[#27]
This thread glows.
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:39:24 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IIRC someone made lightning link biz cards years ago. Which was just a piece of sheet metal with an engraving of what a lightning link should be and they got raped by the ATF. Happened in March of this year. They arrested him and seized his assets. For this:  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:39:37 PM EDT
[#29]
It's honestly a pretty interesting hypothetical. There's not much to the things.
It does sort of shine a light on the problem of calling it a firearm, in a hamfisted effort to solve a "problem". Now that you've done that...there must exist an 80% version of this that would be legal to possess. Even that (the 80% rule) is arbitrary as hell, so it's really two bureaucratic problems colliding.
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:39:52 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:41:06 PM EDT
[#31]
Probably the best you can do.
https://www.preppersdiscount.com/store/p507/www.preppersdiscount.com/store/p507.html Edit: The key card lightning link was one. The guy originally had the lines painted on the sheet metal, then one day he started offering them with pre cuts where it would make it easy for the end user to finish it. He got charged after that if I'm not mistaken. Another is the guy making coat hangers that looked like a 3D printed swift link, you'd have to cut off some material on the back of the link to allow the rear upper receiver lug to slide into, otherwise the receiver wouldn't close. He got charged as well If I'm not mistaken. I think there isn't a fine line on an 80% DIAS with ATF, you either have a completed part, or you have a piece of material. In the case of the prepper repair block, it's just that, an aluminum block with a guide that allows you to make one. Same deal with the first iteration of the key card lightning link, it was just a piece of sheet metal with some drawing on it, till he started adding pre cuts or line stampings. The 3d printed one was this one. 
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:41:29 PM EDT
[#32]
You mean gggggghost links?
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:42:07 PM EDT
[#33]
A key to a prison cell?
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:42:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Seriously?
Are you really ignorant of what the ATF calls "constructive intent"? |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:42:51 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's honestly a pretty interesting hypothetical. There's not much to the things. It does sort of shine a light on the problem of calling it a firearm, in a hamfisted effort to solve a "problem". Now that you've done that...there must exist an 80% version of this that would be legal to possess. Even that (the 80% rule) is arbitrary as hell, so it's really two bureaucratic problems colliding. Right. I would LOVE to have whatever FFL/SOT needed to do this (and the machine shop and skills, obviously), and then SPAM the ATF with various versions of a DIAS at different stages of development. Is this an MG? How about this? How about this one? Is this one an MG? Okay, I made another one - is this an MG? I mean, if they are going to have definitions like this, then we should be able to demand to know exactly where the line is. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:43:27 PM EDT
[#36]
Hello fellow firearms enthusiast
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:43:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seriously? Are you really ignorant of what the ATF calls "constructive intent"? I think its just a slow day in the mod shop. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:43:48 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seriously? Are you really ignorant of what the ATF calls "constructive intent"? Are you really ignorant of the fact that 80% receivers exist, or did you not understand my question? There's obviously a point between an unmachined block of steel, and a functional DIAS - where the item is NOT quite close enough to be considered an MG, and cannot be quickly and easily "converted" and thus fall under "constructive intent." In exactly the same way that an 80% AR forging is NOT quite close enough to a functional lower to be considered a firearm. ETA: Unless you are arguing that having a block of steel, the machine tools, and even THINKING about a DIAS is enough to constitute "constructive intent"
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:44:19 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Has anyone tried to make one? (I would assume you'd have to an SOT or something in order to do this - just in case you go "too far" and accidentally make something that would be considered an MG or easily convertible - and then send a letter to the ATF for a technical ruling). Logically, just like an 80% receiver, there MUST be a point where some metal parts are not a DIAS (but a few hours of work could turn them into one), and those could then be sold freely to any AR owner who wants one. Has this ever been done? Has anyone tried, and been raped by the ATF? Sounds like constructive intent. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:44:33 PM EDT
[#40]
Google says: "Bueno Dias bottle opener"
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:45:00 PM EDT
[#41]
Can be assembled/finished by an SOT.
   Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:49:27 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like constructive intent. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Has anyone tried to make one? (I would assume you'd have to an SOT or something in order to do this - just in case you go "too far" and accidentally make something that would be considered an MG or easily convertible - and then send a letter to the ATF for a technical ruling). Logically, just like an 80% receiver, there MUST be a point where some metal parts are not a DIAS (but a few hours of work could turn them into one), and those could then be sold freely to any AR owner who wants one. Has this ever been done? Has anyone tried, and been raped by the ATF? Sounds like constructive intent. By that logic, an 80% receiver should be considered a firearm. It's probably a pretty safe assumption that anyone who buys an 80% forging is PLANNING on making it into a functional AR lower. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:50:05 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOk, but you still need a registered receiver do you not? |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:51:10 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like constructive intent. Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like constructive intent. "Constructive intent" is bullshit made up gun counter fudd-lore. You should be ashamed of yourself for spreading it around here. ETA: Quoted:Seriously? Are you really ignorant of what the ATF calls "constructive intent"? You too. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:51:52 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: By that logic, an 80% receiver should be considered a firearm. It's probably a pretty safe assumption that anyone who buys an 80% forging is PLANNING on making it into a functional AR lower. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Has anyone tried to make one? (I would assume you'd have to an SOT or something in order to do this - just in case you go "too far" and accidentally make something that would be considered an MG or easily convertible - and then send a letter to the ATF for a technical ruling). Logically, just like an 80% receiver, there MUST be a point where some metal parts are not a DIAS (but a few hours of work could turn them into one), and those could then be sold freely to any AR owner who wants one. Has this ever been done? Has anyone tried, and been raped by the ATF? Sounds like constructive intent. By that logic, an 80% receiver should be considered a firearm. It's probably a pretty safe assumption that anyone who buys an 80% forging is PLANNING on making it into a functional AR lower. I think there’s a huge leap from an 80% lower to an 80% machine gun and with today’s ATF, God knows how that will end up for you. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:53:16 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My impression is that those were fully complete, but made of some synthetic. Or do you mean the twisted-up wire things? So are you saying the wire coat hanger is essentially an 80% DIAS? That's a funny point! the wire clothes hangers in your closet. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:53:32 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:53:43 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Coat hanger.jpg If you perform any operation on your coathanger it is no longer an 80% DIAS and becomes a machine gun. Do not pull the cardboard tube off the coathanger. |
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:54:32 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right. I would LOVE to have whatever FFL/SOT needed to do this (and the machine shop and skills, obviously), and then SPAM the ATF with various versions of a DIAS at different stages of development. Is this an MG? How about this? How about this one? Is this one an MG? Okay, I made another one - is this an MG? I mean, if they are going to have definitions like this, then we should be able to demand to know exactly where the line is. 
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Posted: 10/14/2021 12:54:59 PM EDT
[#50]
It looks like a 3d printer, computer, and fillament.
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