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Posted: 10/21/2013 10:55:04 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
What do you think the best sniper rifle of WWII was? The USA Springfield 1903A4? The German Mauser 98? The Russian Mosin? English ??? A Lee Enfield with a scope? As a dedicated sniper I would take the Marine Corps M1903A1. As a DMR I would take a scoped G43. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 10:55:16 AM EDT
[#2]
Enfield No4T
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Posted: 10/21/2013 10:56:39 AM EDT
[#3]
Enfield worked for the Brits into the 80s in some form or another, didn't it?
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Posted: 10/21/2013 10:56:40 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As a dedicated sniper I would take the Marine Corps M1903A1. As a DMR I would take a scoped G43. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What do you think the best sniper rifle of WWII was? The USA Springfield 1903A4? The German Mauser 98? The Russian Mosin? English ??? A Lee Enfield with a scope? As a dedicated sniper I would take the Marine Corps M1903A1. As a DMR I would take a scoped G43. No question. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 10:56:42 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As a dedicated sniper I would take the Marine Corps M1903A1. As a DMR I would take a scoped G43. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What do you think the best sniper rifle of WWII was? The USA Springfield 1903A4? The German Mauser 98? The Russian Mosin? English ??? A Lee Enfield with a scope? As a dedicated sniper I would take the Marine Corps M1903A1. As a DMR I would take a scoped G43. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 10:59:04 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Enfield No4T Generally considered to be the best... |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:01:23 AM EDT
[#7]
Whatever it was that Simo Hayha used. Or a Lahti.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:01:36 AM EDT
[#8]
I don't know......I might go with a K98 longrail. 
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:02:01 AM EDT
[#9]
By sheer numbers of kills, the Nugget probably takes it
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:04:22 AM EDT
[#10]
Hmm. The 1903A1 with the big 8x Unertl has a lot going for it, but that scope's a bit funky for actual combat use. You actually have to pull it back into position after each shot.
The 1903-A4 and No. 4(T) both had pretty crappy glass. I'll take the M91/30 PU. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:05:46 AM EDT
[#11]
The Finns still use TAK-85s,Mosins remade into sniper rifles in the 1980s. Some of them are with Czarist era recievers.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:05:52 AM EDT
[#12]
Hell, they were all basically the same rifle. I would wager that you could find just as much "difference" in examples of each type than you could find in each type overall.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:26:41 AM EDT
[#13]
Let me google that for you.
Feb 2011 issue Guns magazine. WWII Sniper rifle test. http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?200203-Feb-2011-issue-Guns-magazine-WWII-Sniper-rifle-test http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/FMGPublications/GUNS/GUNS0211/ Best sniper rifle of WWII? http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?48235-Best-sniper-rifle-of-WWII Historic Sniper Scopes |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:29:17 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whatever it was that Simo Hayha used. Or a Lahti. I have this gut feeling that he would've been successful no matter what rifle he happened to have in his hands. After all, the Nagant that he used wasn't even a "sniper" grade Nagant. From what I recall about his story, he didn't even use a scope. 
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:30:38 AM EDT
[#15]
Best rifle? Enfield
Best scope? Zeiss Best cartridge? .30-06 If it were possible somehow to put them all together, then there you go. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:31:48 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whatever it was that Simo Hayha used. Or a Lahti. M28/30. Not really a "sniper" rifle, as it had no optics, but extremely accurate nonetheless. The Finns did make some ad-hoc sniper rifles using M39s and a variety of scopes, but they captured and issued M91/30 sniper rifles as well. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:32:06 AM EDT
[#17]
Id take a Holland and Holland Enfield.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:32:18 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have this gut feeling that he would've been successful no matter what rifle he happened to have in his hands. After all, the Nagant that he used wasn't even a "sniper" grade Nagant. From what I recall about his story, he didn't even use a scope. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Whatever it was that Simo Hayha used. Or a Lahti. I have this gut feeling that he would've been successful no matter what rifle he happened to have in his hands. After all, the Nagant that he used wasn't even a "sniper" grade Nagant. From what I recall about his story, he didn't even use a scope. Most of the shots weren't very far, and not having a scope allowed him to be lower to the ground in his hide. Glass of the day was also useless in low light conditions, and it being Wintertime in Finland... |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:34:42 AM EDT
[#19]
I bet the 1903 with the Unertl was the best and most accurate, probably. Given the quality of ammunition and rifles compared to the other nations, especially.
That said the .303 enfields are awful handy, and a lot easier to carry and shoot with imo than the others. The Mosin's a little short in LOP to me, the Mauser's a bit harder to shoot, and so on. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:35:37 AM EDT
[#20]
Swedish M41
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:37:30 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Enfield worked for the Brits into the 80s in some form or another, didn't it? But that might just be because the Brits are poor. NHS before kit. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:38:56 AM EDT
[#22]
Vasily Zaitsev
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:39:18 AM EDT
[#23]
Rifle was only part of the whole deal. Glass, ammo , training also count big
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:39:31 AM EDT
[#24]
Mauser 98
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:44:30 AM EDT
[#25]
No.4(T) probably wins, but no love for the M1C?
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:46:38 AM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:47:54 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No.4(T) probably wins, but no love for the M1C? Mostly too late for WWII. Saw most of its combat in Korea. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:50:00 AM EDT
[#28]
Mauser
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:50:57 AM EDT
[#29]
One thing the Russkies did right was hand select rifles for their accuracy to be converted into snipers instead of just using random production rifles.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:52:35 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:53:08 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Best rifle? Enfield Best scope? Zeiss Best cartridge? .30-06 If it were possible somehow to put them all together, then there you go. I'd take 8mm with its .56 BC at 2600 FPS. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:53:21 AM EDT
[#32]
I know the Soviets and Germans were believers in the sniper role but I've never heard much about the Brits. Did they use snipers much, did they just hand a sniper rifle to the high scorer in a company...?
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Posted: 10/21/2013 11:55:27 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
M28/30. Not really a "sniper" rifle, as it had no optics, but extremely accurate nonetheless. The Finns did make some ad-hoc sniper rifles using M39s and a variety of scopes, but they captured and issued M91/30 sniper rifles as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Whatever it was that Simo Hayha used. Or a Lahti. M28/30. Not really a "sniper" rifle, as it had no optics, but extremely accurate nonetheless. The Finns did make some ad-hoc sniper rifles using M39s and a variety of scopes, but they captured and issued M91/30 sniper rifles as well. M/28: A variant designed by the White Guard. The M/28 differs from the Army's M/27 primarily in the barrel band design, which is a single piece compared to the M/27's hinged band, and an improved trigger design. Barrels for the M/28 were initially purchased from SIG, and later from Tikkakoski and SAKO.[21] M/28-30: An upgraded version of the M/28. The most noticeable modification is the new rear sight design. Same sight was used in following M39 rifle only exception being "1.5" marking for closest range to clarify it for users. According to micrometer measurements and comparison to modern Lapua D46/47 bullet radar trajectory data, markings are matched to Finnish Lapua D46/D46 bullet surprisingly accurately through whole adjustment range between 150 m and 2000 m. M/28-30 model, serial number 60974, was used by Simo Häyhä, a well-known Finnish sniper. M28/30 was used as Civil Guards competition rifle before World War II, as was case with Simo Häyhä's personal rifle too. Therefore rifles were built very well, with highest grade barrels available and carefully matched headspace. Häyhä's rifle was still at PKarPr (Northern Karelia Brigade) museum in 2002, then moved to an unknown place by the Finnish Army. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosin-Nagant#Finland |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 12:10:09 PM EDT
[#34]
In terms of claiming the most bodies, I'd say the K98. Second would be the Mosin-Nagant.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 12:15:55 PM EDT
[#35]
In sheer numbers, the Mosin by a mile. and I mean sheer numbers of killed targets.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 12:16:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One thing the Russkies did right was hand select rifles for their accuracy to be converted into snipers instead of just using random production rifles. When you have low quality weapons, you have to do that. High quality weapons will all shoot within established parameters. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 12:17:46 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know the Soviets and Germans were believers in the sniper role but I've never heard much about the Brits. Did they use snipers much, did they just hand a sniper rifle to the high scorer in a company...? Read this book: Great book describing the British sniper program. It also got me started on my Denison Smock fetish.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 12:18:43 PM EDT
[#38]
isn't a "sniper" a person with a skillset, and not a rifle?
ergo, wouldn't a "sniper" be pretty damn effective with any rifle, as long as that rifle meets a few BASIC design requirements? |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 12:19:59 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd take 8mm with its .56 BC at 2600 FPS. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Best rifle? Enfield Best scope? Zeiss Best cartridge? .30-06 If it were possible somehow to put them all together, then there you go. I'd take 8mm with its .56 BC at 2600 FPS. Yeah, I'd think the ~198gr 7.92mm FMJ-BT bullet would be the best pick, especially once the shooter found a production lot that his rifle "liked" for accuracy. Plus it would give great extended-range performance compared to the .30-06 or even .303 that was in service at the time. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 12:21:27 PM EDT
[#40]
For Sovs the Tok scoped for the US any scoped semi full sized.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 12:23:28 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Best rifle? Enfield Best scope? Zeiss Best cartridge? .30-06 If it were possible somehow to put them all together, then there you go. A scoped M1917? |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 12:30:40 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A scoped M1917? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Best rifle? Enfield Best scope? Zeiss Best cartridge? .30-06 If it were possible somehow to put them all together, then there you go. A scoped M1917? There were optically sighted versions of the Pattern 1914 (M1917 parent for those who don't know) during the last days of WWI, but the optics were miserable by our standards. If they had better glass, they'd be as good as any WWII rifle. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 12:42:12 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There were optically sighted versions of the Pattern 1914 (M1917 parent for those who don't know) during the last days of WWI, but the optics were miserable by our standards. If they had better glass, they'd be as good as any WWII rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Best rifle? Enfield Best scope? Zeiss Best cartridge? .30-06 If it were possible somehow to put them all together, then there you go. A scoped M1917? There were optically sighted versions of the Pattern 1914 (M1917 parent for those who don't know) during the last days of WWI, but the optics were miserable by our standards. If they had better glass, they'd be as good as any WWII rifle. Warner & Swasey "musket sights"....... 
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Posted: 10/21/2013 12:47:28 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There were optically sighted versions of the Pattern 1914 (M1917 parent for those who don't know) during the last days of WWI, but the optics were miserable by our standards. If they had better glass, they'd be as good as any WWII rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Best rifle? Enfield Best scope? Zeiss Best cartridge? .30-06 If it were possible somehow to put them all together, then there you go. A scoped M1917? There were optically sighted versions of the Pattern 1914 (M1917 parent for those who don't know) during the last days of WWI, but the optics were miserable by our standards. If they had better glass, they'd be as good as any WWII rifle. The P14/M1917 design, with suitably upgraded optics, the rifle being both hand-selected and armory-massaged for accuracy, would be pretty darn good as a sniping weapon. I'd say that upgrading the iron sights (micrometer-type as on some No.4 Mk.1 rifles, with wind gauge added) would be nice too, as a "just in case" measure. Field them to soldiers who have the best rifle scores AND pass a fieldcraft course, and put a squad or so of them per infantry battalion. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 12:48:26 PM EDT
[#45]
I choose the Mauser action rifle.
Which BTW cover both the 1903 and K98 along with most commercial sporting rifles made after. The 1903 Springfield design was copied from Mausers captured in Cuba during the Spanish American war. The Springfield is based on a small ring 1893 Mauser design along with a bit of Krag. Not as robust as the 98 Mauser either. Despite Springfield Armory's use of a two-piece firing pin and other slight design alterations, the 1903 was in fact a Mauser design, and after that company brought suit, the U.S. government was forced to pay $3,000,000 in royalties to Mauser. That Mauser action is what most sporting (hunting) rifles made since is based on. That said, the 1903 is really a Mauser clone, so there is no point in listing it as a different rifle....when you choose the 1903 "Mauser" you are still choosing a Mauser rifle. If imitation is the most sincere form of flattery then the Mauser gets the win. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 12:54:00 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When you have low quality weapons, you have to do that. High quality weapons will all shoot within established parameters. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
One thing the Russkies did right was hand select rifles for their accuracy to be converted into snipers instead of just using random production rifles. When you have low quality weapons, you have to do that. High quality weapons will all shoot within established parameters. The Mosin was not a low quality weapon. It was no less accurate than the K98 and would work in a much broader range of environments. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 12:54:51 PM EDT
[#47]
Nothing that either we made or the Russians made, for sure.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 12:57:11 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Mosin was not a low quality weapon. It was no less accurate than the K98 and would work in a much broader range of environments. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
One thing the Russkies did right was hand select rifles for their accuracy to be converted into snipers instead of just using random production rifles. When you have low quality weapons, you have to do that. High quality weapons will all shoot within established parameters. The Mosin was not a low quality weapon. It was no less accurate than the K98 and would work in a much broader range of environments. Russian WWII manufacturing and quality control are not exactly synonymous. |
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Posted: 10/21/2013 12:57:58 PM EDT
[#49]
whatever weapon the white death was holding.
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Posted: 10/21/2013 1:06:02 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
whatever weapon the white death was holding. According to some, the Finns had low quality arms. Their receivers, bolt bodies and most other bolt parts were Russian. The Finns used many captured Russian 91/30s. Unlike Mausers that were pretty well useless in extremely low temps, the Mosins worked just fine. But remember, the Russians didn't make good guns. |
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