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Posted: 10/27/2021 8:27:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: The_Beer_Slayer]
It says it's been moved, but the link just takes me to the Community page. What gives?


This is now the active "shit (might be) is definitely happening in Ukraine" thread.

News links, thanks to BerettaGuy:
Originally Posted By BerettaGuy:
LINKS TO UKRAINIAN NEWS SOURCES IN ENGLISH

Kyiv Post

Ukrainian News

UKRInform

EUROMAIDEN PRESS

New Voice of Ukraine

Kyiv Independent

Ukraine World

InterFax Ukraine

UATV

Ukrainian Journal

Official Website of the President of Ukraine

Ukrainian Ministry of Defense

Save these links. I can't post all the headlines like I've done in the past - too much news and too often.
View Quote


Please @ me with additional stuff to be added here. I don't currently have time to properly curate this thread otherwise.

New news link c/o berettaguy:

Ukrainian Pravda
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/

Stop fake, anti - disinformation site:
https://www.stopfake.org/en/main/
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:03:18 PM EDT
[#1]
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Originally Posted By kpacman:

[/color]

Afraid to start a bourbon detour on this thread?
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Originally Posted By kpacman:
Originally Posted By Kagetora:

Happy to share what little expertise I have in areas. There are others on here in the same industry who know even more, I'm just a wordy bastard.

[color=#ff0000]Plus, I have learned amazing amounts of stuff here on ARFCOM. From how to assemble my own AR from parts, to 9mm>.45>.40, to the fact that your runny meat sauce can have beans in it if you're poor.

[/color]

Afraid to start a bourbon detour on this thread?


I've derailed this thread enough with gibberish about the power system and infrastructure. I know less about bourbon than I do about chili.

Speaking of bourbon, racoon chili, Toilet Duck, and antifreeze, we joke ENDLESSLY about the RU forces being drunk.

The complete lack of reaction to the grenades in multiple videos makes me think it's true.

Step 1: Drink heavily while digging hole, comrade.
Step 2: Drink more.
Step 3: Sleep off in hole.

It would explain a LOT of those videos. No overhead cover, no reaction, sometimes even no reaction AFTER.

Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:07:43 PM EDT
[#2]
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Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer:


Russia was a strategic threat. They could have steam rolled the baltics, annexed adjacent territories, integrate their collective industries, that was the plan. They allowed Ukraine to build up a significant military over 8 years and then messed up on the engagement. Had they sent 300k into Kyiv all at once it would have been a different story.

Russia, if allowed to rebuild under Putin will be an even bigger threat in 5 years. Mark my words. They are psychos and hold major grudges. Letting up now is akin to letting a bully get of easy then him and his older brother jump you later when your not expecting it.

Either you have magical access to a very high level database of stores across the DOD or your speculating based on “conversations” in any event I doubt anyone with said access to restricted databases is going to post it here. If you are and do, that’s your clearance not mine.

Buying and producing new ammo stocks is on the US budget and future shopping list. Taiwan isn’t going to be lost or won because of our strategic army stockpiles of 155, 120, gmlrs etc. I’ll worry when I see loads of barges clearing out Yorktown.
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Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer:
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast:
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By postpostban:
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By dillydilly:
Originally Posted By R0N:


That sounds good and may make a good bumper sticker but in the real world you cannot trade dead Ukrainians for new control and steering units for M31s, IMX 101 for M795s, seekers for JAVs etc  we now need to buy.

That’s not how war works. As the poster above me said, Ukraine better align with us. They have nautical resources and a work force that can be used to cover that.

I have a feeling I know quite a bit more about how war works than most

And you may want to look up lend lease, because some nations are still making payments on that


So what EXACTLY do you think the US government should be doing?

You keep beating the same bushes, but you don't seem to actually get to a point.

As this has evolved, it can pretty obvious that the supposed threat we needed to defend against the US  was not there, why invest the treasures for someone else war.

Multiple times, people have rebutted your argument that the Russians aren't a threat because their conventional forces are weaker than ours, yet you have ignored those posts and continue posting the same argument.


Because for the Ukrainians are proving they were not a conventional threat and the only thing being attracted.  Do you think is war is going to lower the cyber or nuclear threat?  


Russia was a strategic threat. They could have steam rolled the baltics, annexed adjacent territories, integrate their collective industries, that was the plan. They allowed Ukraine to build up a significant military over 8 years and then messed up on the engagement. Had they sent 300k into Kyiv all at once it would have been a different story.

Russia, if allowed to rebuild under Putin will be an even bigger threat in 5 years. Mark my words. They are psychos and hold major grudges. Letting up now is akin to letting a bully get of easy then him and his older brother jump you later when your not expecting it.

Either you have magical access to a very high level database of stores across the DOD or your speculating based on “conversations” in any event I doubt anyone with said access to restricted databases is going to post it here. If you are and do, that’s your clearance not mine.

Buying and producing new ammo stocks is on the US budget and future shopping list. Taiwan isn’t going to be lost or won because of our strategic army stockpiles of 155, 120, gmlrs etc. I’ll worry when I see loads of barges clearing out Yorktown.


It's an interesting position, there have been numerous articles about potential shortages of critical weapons and the slow pace of reloading those magazines.   The only way to prove it is to cite TMR numbers, which no one would be stupid enough to do, hence it can not be true because the only way you can confirm or deny those articles is to cite from something that is secret.  

Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:09:19 PM EDT
[#3]
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Originally Posted By R0N:


Because for the Ukrainians are proving they were not a conventional threat and the only thing being attracted.  Do you think is war is going to lower the cyber or nuclear threat?  
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Somewhat. Lots of smart young folks left. Lots and lots of talent has abandoned russia, and it should have an effect on the cyber side. They are sending troops from the nuke side to the front lines, as well as their trainers. Their military has no morale. Those making the decisions are more retarded than ours are. Both sides are ass kissing grafters.
They will end up with dirty bombs attached to iffy rockets.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:11:21 PM EDT
[#4]
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Originally Posted By R0N:


There have been more than a few articles in the DMR/Early bird about how the PRC is being emboldened and moving it's timelines up over the months.


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PRC plays the long game, they're watching this war and assessing their own capabilities and planning on filling any gaps. They won't make a move until they are assured of victory.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:18:26 PM EDT
[#5]
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Originally Posted By R0N:

I understand the tendency of people to become emotionally involved in a cause or in the case of the Ukraine war I know a lot of people are taking their ancestry and heritage into account.

What I said multiple times is, I think the analysis of the situation should be done as unemotional and without passion as possible and from my perspective, with a view to what is in Americas best interest.   And I am not sure that people who are allowing their ancestral biases to slant views are doing that.  

It the simple things like acknowledging the various things that happen in the war, happen, instead they make themselves seem stupid by sticking their fingers in their ears and saying that it's not happening when anyone who has experience in a combat zone knows they happen.
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In my simple opinion, the US and allies have spent trillions in defense against the soviet block and now Russia

To spend a few hundred billion to finally destroy this evil is well worth it.

The chicoms also come to mind and Taipei would become another Ukraine, worth every penny spent if they attack. The chicoms have an even worse scenario, crossing 180 km of ocean.
chicom airborne is only so good until ship reinforcements arrive. Davies locker tells no tales
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:21:38 PM EDT
[#6]
We can offset any potential move up of the Chinese timetable by arming Taiwan now. Patriot batteries, sea mines, starlinks whatever, tunnel into the mountains like Switzerland, mine tge beaches, store m1s and Bradley’s in sealed caves. Sell them mucho fighters. We don’t for political reasons again. Same formula same result.

Ukraine has nothing to do with it other than a possibly repeated failure of Foreign policy. We either go all in or better not play at all. Our enemies don’t play by the same rules. If chinas going to invade, it’s a decision they have made already. They might delay or expedite but it’s decided. I saw Russia coming for Ukraine way before 2014. We basically signaled “meh” which only encouraged it.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:23:35 PM EDT
[#7]
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Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer:

VOGs are critical low in UA.
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Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer:
Originally Posted By DonKey153:
Originally Posted By doc540:


In many vids they continue to just hunker after other grenades have fallen around them.

I'm thinking many may just be green and terrified into freezing.



There's a reason they're dropped from the altitude that they are.

VOGs are critical low in UA.


Sorry to hear that!

I would have hoped Eastern Europe would have had more of those to donate (maybe they will find some?)

I’ve posted this before:  

This version of the 30mm VOG-17 is meant for a Russian belt fed full auto grenade launcher.  The Ukrainians discard the steel case and propelling charge to save weight, and they add 3D printed fins for drone drop duty.

But there is another version of the VOG-17:




Obviously this version isn’t suitable for grenade launcher use, but rather, it meant to be thrown.  

The Ukrainians also modify and drop both US and Ruskie impact-detonating 40mm grenades, modified for the purpose.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:26:08 PM EDT
[#8]
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Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer:
We can offset any potential move up of the Chinese timetable by arming Taiwan now. Patriot batteries, sea mines, starlinks whatever, tunnel into the mountains like Switzerland, mine tge beaches, store m1s and Bradley’s in sealed caves. Sell them mucho fighters. We don’t for political reasons again. Same formula same result.

Ukraine has nothing to do with it other than a possibly repeated failure of Foreign policy. We either go all in or better not play at all. Our enemies don’t play by the same rules. If chinas going to invade, it’s a decision they have made already. They might delay or expedite but it’s decided. I saw Russia coming for Ukraine way before 2014. We basically signaled “meh” which only encouraged it.
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Yep. If the US dropped off a few squadrons of fighters and assoc equipment, along with Patriot, Land-based Anti-ship missiles, ATGMs and other assoc small arms to Taiwan and only announced it after the fact, the calculus would change very rapidly for the PRC.

Transparency is only a valid play when you can trust the other players to do the same.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:27:44 PM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:30:16 PM EDT
[#10]
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Originally Posted By grambosc:

How much did that cost you?  I could have probably gotten one if I had combined all the separate donations I've given into one.  (Not that I have any regrets about that)

I imagine they are very much in demand.
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Originally Posted By grambosc:

How much did that cost you?  I could have probably gotten one if I had combined all the separate donations I've given into one.  (Not that I have any regrets about that)

I imagine they are very much in demand.
I believe they are made from the ERA panels off the tanks.

It would take a bit more work to use a piece of tank armor
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:30:36 PM EDT
[#11]
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Originally Posted By R0N:


This is what actually pisses off many of the people in my circles of current and retired military and IC.  Most of are good with killing Russians but are not under illusion this war will result in a more secure international environment for the US, nor do we see that in the end the small expenditures up front will save any money.   The small amount being paid now is a down payment  on a massive long term cost at a time when we cannot afford it.

It is kind of weird to those of us who have been the security state our entire lives at the level of support being shown by those outside of it for it and its indicator how effective IO can be at swaying populations there are so many talking points being spewed by those supporting “the cause.”
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Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By IEC:
I don't care if we spend $1T total in military aid to Ukraine. Our current expenditures are reaping 2-3x in destroyed Russian equipment, not even counting the damage to Russian manpower and training for DECADES to come.

What's more, we're sending 1-2 generations (or more) old American equipment that would otherwise by and large be destined for demil or long term storage. So we save maintenance and demil costs.

But here's the real icing on the cake: The world is seeing in real-time that even 1980s era American equipment is excellent and trouncing anything the Russians can field. This will drive hundreds of billions in arms purchasing from AMERICAN industry which means more AMERICAN manufacturing jobs.

This is the very definition of a bargain.

As far as I'm concerned, any Congress critter advocating for ending military aid to Ukraine should be investigated for ties to the Kremlin.


This is what actually pisses off many of the people in my circles of current and retired military and IC.  Most of are good with killing Russians but are not under illusion this war will result in a more secure international environment for the US, nor do we see that in the end the small expenditures up front will save any money.   The small amount being paid now is a down payment  on a massive long term cost at a time when we cannot afford it.

It is kind of weird to those of us who have been the security state our entire lives at the level of support being shown by those outside of it for it and its indicator how effective IO can be at swaying populations there are so many talking points being spewed by those supporting “the cause.”

What’s been spent so far seems a bargain compared to the $20 Trillion + spent during the Cold War.

Not supporting Ukraine at this point would be completely foolish; it would pale in comparison to Biden’s abandonment of Afghanistan.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:31:44 PM EDT
[#12]
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Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer:
We can offset any potential move up of the Chinese timetable by arming Taiwan now. Patriot batteries, sea mines, starlinks whatever, tunnel into the mountains like Switzerland, mine tge beaches, store m1s and Bradley’s in sealed caves. Sell them mucho fighters. We don’t for political reasons again. Same formula same result.

Ukraine has nothing to do with it other than a possibly repeated failure of Foreign policy. We either go all in or better not play at all. Our enemies don’t play by the same rules. If chinas going to invade, it’s a decision they have made already. They might delay or expedite but it’s decided. I saw Russia coming for Ukraine way before 2014. We basically signaled “meh” which only encouraged it.
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I am sure there is plenty of hollowed out rock on Taiwan. Nobody here is saying much about it, but the Korean peninsula is going to get pretty spicy if china kicks things off. That will suck big time for everyone but the norks.
I will stop thread sliding now. Sorry everyone.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:32:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Freiheit8472] [#13]
BTW- the debate going on is head and shoulders above “social media” discourse anywhere else.

It’s a passionate debate, and people are making actual arguments. Some jabs here and there to keep the corner judges busy with super glue and q-tips!  

We’re all probably rusty. We used to have such debates in daily life… the olden days.

Still the best forum, in all our books!
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:37:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Chaingun] [#14]
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Originally Posted By doc540:


Think GD will ever get as low on purses as the orcs are getting on ordinance?
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Originally Posted By doc540:
Originally Posted By Banditman:
Stop

Leave it to rest


Think GD will ever get as low on purses as the orcs are getting on ordinance?
HoW dArE yOu!!!!!


Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:38:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Ukrainian drone carrying a gasoline bomb.













Ukraine Gets 800 Taiwan-Made ‘Carpet Bomber’ Revolver 860 Combat Drones



The Revolver 860 is a VTOL combat drone with four arms and eight rotors. Its weapons bay (a barillet, hence its name of ”revolver”) can carry up to eight 60mm mortar shells








Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:41:48 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dominion21:


Sorry to hear that!

I would have hoped Eastern Europe would have had more of those to donate (maybe they will find some?)

I’ve posted this before:  https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2019-12/1577015719_07-vog-17.jpg

This version of the 30mm VOG-17 is meant for a Russian belt fed full auto grenade launcher.  The Ukrainians discard the steel case and propelling charge to save weight, and they add 3D printed fins for drone drop duty.

But there is another version of the VOG-17:

https://s3.envato.com/files/231577366/screenshot001.png


Obviously this version isn’t suitable for grenade launcher use, but rather, it meant to be thrown.  

The Ukrainians also modify and drop both US and Ruskie impact-detonating 40mm grenades, modified for the purpose.
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Originally Posted By Dominion21:
Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer:
Originally Posted By DonKey153:
Originally Posted By doc540:


In many vids they continue to just hunker after other grenades have fallen around them.

I'm thinking many may just be green and terrified into freezing.



There's a reason they're dropped from the altitude that they are.

VOGs are critical low in UA.


Sorry to hear that!

I would have hoped Eastern Europe would have had more of those to donate (maybe they will find some?)

I’ve posted this before:  https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2019-12/1577015719_07-vog-17.jpg

This version of the 30mm VOG-17 is meant for a Russian belt fed full auto grenade launcher.  The Ukrainians discard the steel case and propelling charge to save weight, and they add 3D printed fins for drone drop duty.

But there is another version of the VOG-17:

https://s3.envato.com/files/231577366/screenshot001.png


Obviously this version isn’t suitable for grenade launcher use, but rather, it meant to be thrown.  

The Ukrainians also modify and drop both US and Ruskie impact-detonating 40mm grenades, modified for the purpose.


Yeah all the VOG ammo is in very short supply and I’m not sure anyone makes it other than Serbia and Russia or something. 40mm HEDP is used but it’s not as good (compromise round) for Anti personnel as you cutaway shows. They are starting to manufacture stuff 3-D, but it’s a huge army with three lines of supply, one for the territorial guys (whatever they can get) for example the rapira is still a primary anti tank gun in many units. They will have some RPGs and panzerfausts (much loved) and NLAWs but generally those are kept at the company CP and distributed as needed. Grenades are everywhere. Same with NG troops. The regular army pulls better stuff unless they are in Bakhmut where supplies were stored for years, SSO and Airborne has better pickings generally but it’s such a plethora of stuff from so many places it really depends where your at. I can say that Vogs are low low so much so you’ll rarely see gps on Aks or AGLS used anymore. Same with the Hydra 82mm mortar thing . They might capture some and use it till they run out but the Soviet stuff is running low in some cases. Whole depots of that stuff is being accumulated. They make 40mm there but it’s low production, they even have a cool light weight 40mm mk19 AgLS machine gun domestically designed and manufactured but last I heard maybe 100 had been made. That was pre war so I’m not sure now. Same with ARs, they make good ones Zbroyar but not enough to really matter.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:41:55 PM EDT
[#17]
I say, any of you gents up for a fun filled evening of shuttle cock!

Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:43:01 PM EDT
[#18]
Russian forces were suffering from 'electronic fratricide' within days of attacking Ukraine, a new report says

In the first days of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Russian jamming disrupted Ukraine's air-defense radars and communications links. The problem for Russian forces is that their electronic warfare also jammed their own communications.

This "electronic fratricide" became so acute that Russian troops had to stop disrupting Ukrainian communications, according to a study by the Royal United Services Institute, a British think tank.

By the end of the first week of the invasion, Russian ground forces being unable to effectively communicate "became a greater threat to the Russian operation than Ukrainian [surface-to-air missile] systems, so their electronic warfare assets began to greatly scale back their operations after the first two days," the RUSI report says.

Initially, Russia's jamming offensive was devastating and validated Moscow's heavy investment in electronic warfare. For years, the Pentagon has worried it lags far behind Russia in electronic-warfare capabilities, which could disrupt the extensive communications networks that enable the US military to fight in a coordinated fashion.

Generally, Russian electronic-warfare systems "have actually proven extremely effective," Nick Reynolds, a coauthor of the RUSI study, told Insider, and Russia's initial onslaught in Ukraine seemed to bear out the Pentagon's fears.

"During the first week of the invasion, Russian electronic warfare using jamming equipment and E-96M aerial decoys were highly effective in disrupting" Ukraine's ground-based air-defense systems, the RUSI report says.

Russian jamming severely disrupted Ukrainian S-300 and SA-11 surface-to-air-missile batteries north of Kyiv. Russia also launched extensive ballistic- and cruise-missile strikes on Ukraine's long-range radars and anti-aircraft batteries.

The combined effect was Ukraine's ground-based air defenses were hit so hard that its badly outnumbered fleet of MiG-29 and Su-27 fighters had to take primary responsibility for protecting the country's skies.

But as Russia's advance began to bog down, Russian troops discovered that they had "no coherent communications plan," according to the RUSI report.

Russian units lacked trained radio operators and encryption keys to decipher coded communications. Some radios had cheap Chinese-made components that left them vulnerable to Ukrainian jamming. Russian mobile air-defense units — which were supposed to keep up with the armored columns — were also hampered by poor communications.

The result was that Russia's electronic offensive boomeranged.

"The electronic warfare capabilities that had been initially very effective in degrading Ukrainian SAM systems were also causing serious electronic fratricide problems and thus compounding an increasingly critical communications breakdown among Russian ground force elements," the RUSI report says.

Not surprisingly, Russia cut back on electronic warfare after the first two days of the war. "This allowed newly relocated Ukrainian SAM systems to regain much of their effectiveness, although it took time to repair or adapt to much of the damage to key radar systems for early warning and long-range missile guidance," the report says.

"In the first week of March, however, Ukrainian SAMs began to inflict significant losses on Russian attack sorties," the report added.

Nonetheless, the ultimate failure of Russia's jamming campaign wasn't the technical quality of Russian jammers. Moscow's electronic offensive fizzled for the same reasons that the ground offensive bogged down.

Poor planning, lack of coordination, and a general indifference by Russian commanders toward getting the details right doomed what many thought would be easy advance on Kyiv.

Strangely, despite otherwise impressive EW capabilities, Russian communications security has also been atrocious, including instances of Russian soldiers using unencrypted cell phones for battlefield communications, allowing Ukrainian intelligence and foreign powers to eavesdrop.

The role of jamming in Ukraine reflects the growing importance of the electromagnetic spectrum for modern conflict. Using radio signals, infrared sensing, and radar to track foes and communicate with friendly forces is vital to combined-arms warfare.


Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:45:53 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By R0N:

It is a bit ironic the person who uses a facetious statement now says being facetious

I have already given two mechanisms that could be used to pay for our weapons, either modern lend-lease or a treaty to guarantee the US mineral rights post-war.
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I say bill, bribe, or steal it from who caused this. Russia.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:46:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: gentlemanfarmer] [#20]
At Kategota spot the coolness. Sorry had to pull it
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:50:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: j_hooker] [#21]
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Originally Posted By postpostban:


So what EXACTLY do you think the US government should be doing?

You keep beating the same bushes, but you don't seem to actually get to a point.
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Originally Posted By postpostban:
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By dillydilly:
Originally Posted By R0N:


That sounds good and may make a good bumper sticker but in the real world you cannot trade dead Ukrainians for new control and steering units for M31s, IMX 101 for M795s, seekers for JAVs etc  we now need to buy.

That’s not how war works. As the poster above me said, Ukraine better align with us. They have nautical resources and a work force that can be used to cover that.

I have a feeling I know quite a bit more about how war works than most

And you may want to look up lend lease, because some nations are still making payments on that


So what EXACTLY do you think the US government should be doing?

You keep beating the same bushes, but you don't seem to actually get to a point.

Yeah, R0N is losing me.  I thought it was due to the improper use and lack of Himars rockets since he mentioned he has special intel, which I could understand . Then it was a fear of a void/vacuum if Putin left. I’m starting to see he has different issues now. I asked for ideas a 1000 pages back along with others and we’ll, I haven’t read of any ideas yet from R0N
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:52:38 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer:

At Kategota spot the coolness. Sorry had to pull it
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I must've missed something.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:53:14 PM EDT
[#23]
Agreed. As long as we keep it civil and fact based I don't mind the debates. It's went it ceases to be either that it needs to be shut down.  It's ok to disagree - in fact I'd say that's the American way.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:53:37 PM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:57:09 PM EDT
[#25]
Let's here it for the cheer squad


Link Posted: 11/21/2022 9:59:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Top 10 Successful Communist Countries
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 10:01:24 PM EDT
[#27]
Fucken Viktor Bacsi is doing another consultation from the people in regards to the war.


Tisztelt Hölgyem/Uram!
A brüsszeli szankciókról szóló konzultáció már az interneten is kitölthető. Olyan kérdésekről van szó, amelyek mindannyiunk életét érintik.
Brüsszelben azt ígérték, hogy a szankciók véget vetnek a háborúnak. A háborúnak azonban nem lett vége, az energiaárak viszont elszálltak, drágulnak az élelmiszerek, az infláció évtizedek óta nem látott szintre emelkedett. Az egyértelmű következmények ellenére újabb szankciókat akarnak elfogadtatni.
Elítéljük Oroszország katonai agresszióját, segítjük az Ukrajnából érkező menekülteket, de nem engedhetjük, hogy a szankciók maguk alá temessék Magyarország, sőt, egész Európa gazdaságát.
Irányváltásra van szükség. Ha sokan veszünk részt a konzultációban, akkor ezt el is tudjuk érni. Ezért arra kérjük, mondja el Ön is véleményét!
A konzultációs kérdőívet az alábbi linken éri el:
nemzetikonzultacio.kormany.hu

Tisztelettel:
Kormányzati Tájékoztatási Központ

Dear Sir / Madam!
The consultation on Brussels sanctions can already be completed online. These are issues that affect the lives of all of us.
In Brussels, they promised that the sanctions would end the war. However, the war is not over, energy prices have skyrocketed, food prices are rising, and inflation has risen to a level not seen for decades. Despite the clear consequences, they want to have new sanctions accepted.
We condemn Russia's military aggression, we help the refugees coming from Ukraine, but we cannot allow the sanctions to bury the economy of Hungary, or even the whole of Europe.
A change of direction is needed. If many of us participate in the consultation, we can achieve this. Therefore, please tell us your opinion!
You can access the consultation questionnaire at the following link:
mezmetkonzultacio.kormany.hu

Basically, because of sanctions everyone is suffering blah blah blah blah and that it's time Hungary pushes for the end of sanctions.

I told my kepviselo under no circumstances do we stop sanctions. I showed her a picture of my great grandfather and grandfather and how they were murdered by the fucken Orcs in 1958. They were sprayed with cold icy water in a freezing jail cell until they were both frozen.

Fuck that entire country. My kepviselo( representative to the Hungarian parliament) told me that destroying Orckyland will not bring back my family. I said no...but it will prevent it from ever happening again to Hungary if we destroy Orckyland NOW and TODAY.








Link Posted: 11/21/2022 10:01:24 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer:
We can offset any potential move up of the Chinese timetable by arming Taiwan now. Patriot batteries, sea mines, starlinks whatever, tunnel into the mountains like Switzerland, mine tge beaches, store m1s and Bradley’s in sealed caves. Sell them mucho fighters. We don’t for political reasons again. Same formula same result.

Ukraine has nothing to do with it other than a possibly repeated failure of Foreign policy. We either go all in or better not play at all. Our enemies don’t play by the same rules. If chinas going to invade, it’s a decision they have made already. They might delay or expedite but it’s decided. I saw Russia coming for Ukraine way before 2014. We basically signaled “meh” which only encouraged it.
View Quote



You have to take our the whole of our foreign policy failures into account when you discuss Ukraine, the same people who planned and orchestra all those failures are the same people running the current show.  Those people actions have made the US less safe more than enough times to believe it was more than just bad luck and just not bad odds.    But we are supposed forget all that and to play odds this one times and accept they are right doing is this times and it will make the US safer?
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 10:02:00 PM EDT
[#29]
It looks like the Russians are about to pull out of the nuclear plant.

https://www.vedomosti.ru/business/articles/2022/11/21/951373-rosatom-predupredil?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=zaporozhskaya-atomnaya-elektrostantsiya-nahod
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 10:12:45 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By R0N:

1) That is an assumption, I think they will actually see they cannot compete conventionally and double down on strategic capabilities
2) They rely on illicit actors as it is, this will not reduce that.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By planemaker:
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By MelGibsonEnthusiast:
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By postpostban:
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By dillydilly:
Originally Posted By R0N:


That sounds good and may make a good bumper sticker but in the real world you cannot trade dead Ukrainians for new control and steering units for M31s, IMX 101 for M795s, seekers for JAVs etc  we now need to buy.

That’s not how war works. As the poster above me said, Ukraine better align with us. They have nautical resources and a work force that can be used to cover that.

I have a feeling I know quite a bit more about how war works than most

And you may want to look up lend lease, because some nations are still making payments on that


So what EXACTLY do you think the US government should be doing?

You keep beating the same bushes, but you don't seem to actually get to a point.

As this has evolved, it can pretty obvious that the supposed threat we needed to defend against the US  was not there, why invest the treasures for someone else war.

Multiple times, people have rebutted your argument that the Russians aren't a threat because their conventional forces are weaker than ours, yet you have ignored those posts and continue posting the same argument.


Because for the Ukrainians are proving they were not a conventional threat and the only thing being attracted.  Do you think is war is going to lower the cyber or nuclear threat?  


Yes. First, the Russians won't be able to afford to maintain their nuclear forces at anywhere close to where they had been. Second, the cyber threat is being (and has already been) dramatically reduced by the fleeing of cyber-capable young people away from Russia to keep from getting thrown into a meat grinder.

1) That is an assumption, I think they will actually see they cannot compete conventionally and double down on strategic capabilities
2) They rely on illicit actors as it is, this will not reduce that.


1) Not an assumption, we've already seen one of their nuclear capable cruise missiles having it's warhead replaced with a dummy so it could be used with a conventional warhead. That would only make sense if you didn't have the ability to maintain nuclear weaponry readiness.
2) They rely plenty on paid cyber criminals and many of those folks have figured out they need to be someplace else. This war has already reduced the available cyber cohort.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 10:16:16 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Chaingun:
I believe they are made from the ERA panels off the tanks.

It would take a bit more work to use a piece of tank armor
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Chaingun:
Originally Posted By grambosc:

How much did that cost you?  I could have probably gotten one if I had combined all the separate donations I've given into one.  (Not that I have any regrets about that)

I imagine they are very much in demand.
I believe they are made from the ERA panels off the tanks.

It would take a bit more work to use a piece of tank armor


It was 100 bucks. Who knows if it’s real, but the guy has pics and vids of the production. Cool piece anyway.

https://twitter.com/dogtagua/status/1564437352805765122?s=21
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 10:25:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Prime:
Russian forces were suffering from 'electronic fratricide' within days of attacking Ukraine, a new report says

In the first days of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Russian jamming disrupted Ukraine's air-defense radars and communications links. The problem for Russian forces is that their electronic warfare also jammed their own communications.

This "electronic fratricide" became so acute that Russian troops had to stop disrupting Ukrainian communications, according to a study by the Royal United Services Institute, a British think tank.

By the end of the first week of the invasion, Russian ground forces being unable to effectively communicate "became a greater threat to the Russian operation than Ukrainian [surface-to-air missile] systems, so their electronic warfare assets began to greatly scale back their operations after the first two days," the RUSI report says.

Initially, Russia's jamming offensive was devastating and validated Moscow's heavy investment in electronic warfare. For years, the Pentagon has worried it lags far behind Russia in electronic-warfare capabilities, which could disrupt the extensive communications networks that enable the US military to fight in a coordinated fashion.

Generally, Russian electronic-warfare systems "have actually proven extremely effective," Nick Reynolds, a coauthor of the RUSI study, told Insider, and Russia's initial onslaught in Ukraine seemed to bear out the Pentagon's fears.

"During the first week of the invasion, Russian electronic warfare using jamming equipment and E-96M aerial decoys were highly effective in disrupting" Ukraine's ground-based air-defense systems, the RUSI report says.

Russian jamming severely disrupted Ukrainian S-300 and SA-11 surface-to-air-missile batteries north of Kyiv. Russia also launched extensive ballistic- and cruise-missile strikes on Ukraine's long-range radars and anti-aircraft batteries.

The combined effect was Ukraine's ground-based air defenses were hit so hard that its badly outnumbered fleet of MiG-29 and Su-27 fighters had to take primary responsibility for protecting the country's skies.

But as Russia's advance began to bog down, Russian troops discovered that they had "no coherent communications plan," according to the RUSI report.

Russian units lacked trained radio operators and encryption keys to decipher coded communications. Some radios had cheap Chinese-made components that left them vulnerable to Ukrainian jamming. Russian mobile air-defense units — which were supposed to keep up with the armored columns — were also hampered by poor communications.

The result was that Russia's electronic offensive boomeranged.

"The electronic warfare capabilities that had been initially very effective in degrading Ukrainian SAM systems were also causing serious electronic fratricide problems and thus compounding an increasingly critical communications breakdown among Russian ground force elements," the RUSI report says.

Not surprisingly, Russia cut back on electronic warfare after the first two days of the war. "This allowed newly relocated Ukrainian SAM systems to regain much of their effectiveness, although it took time to repair or adapt to much of the damage to key radar systems for early warning and long-range missile guidance," the report says.

"In the first week of March, however, Ukrainian SAMs began to inflict significant losses on Russian attack sorties," the report added.

Nonetheless, the ultimate failure of Russia's jamming campaign wasn't the technical quality of Russian jammers. Moscow's electronic offensive fizzled for the same reasons that the ground offensive bogged down.

Poor planning, lack of coordination, and a general indifference by Russian commanders toward getting the details right doomed what many thought would be easy advance on Kyiv.

Strangely, despite otherwise impressive EW capabilities, Russian communications security has also been atrocious, including instances of Russian soldiers using unencrypted cell phones for battlefield communications, allowing Ukrainian intelligence and foreign powers to eavesdrop.

The role of jamming in Ukraine reflects the growing importance of the electromagnetic spectrum for modern conflict. Using radio signals, infrared sensing, and radar to track foes and communicate with friendly forces is vital to combined-arms warfare.

https://i.insider.com/637b7f162c8b9a0018cbda36?width=1200&format=jpeg&auto=webp
View Quote


I wonder how much of this was from the Ukrainians and the rooskies both using essentially the same gear? Kinda hard to jam things that both sides are using.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 10:35:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AlmightyTallest] [#33]
ISW assessment for November 21st.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-november-21

A Ukrainian official acknowledged on November 21 that Ukrainian forces are conducting a military operation on the Kinburn Spit, a location which would allow Ukrainian forces to better conduct potential operations on the left (east) bank in Kherson Oblast. Ukrainian Southern Defense Forces spokesperson Natalia Humenyuk stated on November 21 that Ukrainian forces are conducting a military operation on the Kinburn Spit and called for operational silence to be respected.[16] Humenyuk emphasized that the Kinburn Spit is the last piece of territory that Russian forces occupy in Mykolaiv Oblast.[17] The Kinburn Spit is only 4km across the strait from Ochakiv and allows for control of the entrance to the Dnipro and Southern Bug rivers as well as the Mykolaiv and Kherson city ports. Russian forces used positions on the Kinburn Spit to conduct routine missile and artillery strikes on Ukrainian positions in Ochakiv, southern Mykolaiv Oblast, and other areas along the Ukrainian-controlled Black Sea Coast.[18] The Kinburn Spit is also out of the 25km range of 152mm artillery that Russian forces have accumulated on the left (east) bank of the Dnipro River in Kherson Oblast. Control of the Kinburn Spit would allow Ukrainian forces to relieve Russian strikes on the Ukrainian-controlled Black Sea coast, increase naval activity in the area, and conduct potential operations to cross to the left (east) bank in Kherson Oblast under significantly less Russian artillery fire compared to a crossing of the Dnipro River.
View Quote
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 10:44:06 PM EDT
[#34]
I didn't see this posted but I may have missed it.



Link Posted: 11/21/2022 10:45:07 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Zam18th:
I didn't see this posted but I may have missed it.



View Quote


good catch, was not posted.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 10:46:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lorazepam:

We talked them into disarming, allowed russia to walk in free and clear after they kicked out the russian puppet govt. Refused to help them with arms, Trump sent limited bits. We neuter them with treaties, refuse to help them rearm after they take it in the ass yet again by russia. Now russia openly states they are going genocidal on Ukraine, violate pretty much any human rights they please, commit war crimes, and genocide, and the beacon of the free world should just mind their own business?
It's a fucking shame that none of these people were speaking out when we wasted 20 years, lives and treasure on a bunch of inbred goat fucking retards who hated us and didn't want us there. I took a lot of shit for saying it would be a mistake to go into iraq.
Now, a country that wants to emulate western democracy and capitalism, and has the potential to be an economic power in europe, and truly want self determination, and everyone wants to turn their backs. I don't get it.
View Quote

Good rant. I agree.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 10:49:35 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By shark101au:


PRC plays the long game, they're watching this war and assessing their own capabilities and planning on filling any gaps. They won't make a move until they THINK THEY are assured of victory.
View Quote


That's more likely.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 10:51:11 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:


It certainly did, and had extra bb's applied to the front of the device.
View Quote

It looked like it kinda missed, hitting the berm between the two positions. At least from my perspective. Although it may have had the desired effects anyway based on the blast size.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 10:51:17 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Zam18th:
I didn't see this posted but I may have missed it.



View Quote


This newer high end European equipment always worries me that it won’t be provided and back-filled/manufactured in appropriate numbers to matter. This is especially true for proprietary UK/Euro made weapons systems.

Do they even have the capability to produce in large numbers without the US making it?
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 10:54:49 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By R0N:



You have to take our the whole of our foreign policy failures into account when you discuss Ukraine, the same people who planned and orchestra all those failures are the same people running the current show.  Those people actions have made the US less safe more than enough times to believe it was more than just bad luck and just not bad odds.    But we are supposed forget all that and to play odds this one times and accept they are right doing is this times and it will make the US safer?
View Quote


That's an excellent point.  I'll go back to an earlier post that someone made - part of this war occurring is due to the fact that those policymakers told the Ukr that we had their back if they got rid of the nukes and all of the stuff we feared would make it into the hands of bad actors.  So we need to make sure our word is actually worth something, or we're no better than a bunch of compromised Germans.  We've already shown our ass in AFG only 15 mos ago.  Give the Ukr what they need to END it.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 10:56:09 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kncook:


This newer high end European equipment always worries me that it won’t be provided and back-filled/manufactured in appropriate numbers to matter. This is especially true for proprietary UK/Euro made weapons systems.

Do they even have the capability to produce in large numbers without the US making it?
View Quote


Not in a rapid fashion. The UK's going all in on this.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 11:01:35 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer:


Russia was a strategic threat. They could have steam rolled the baltics, annexed adjacent territories, integrate their collective industries, that was the plan. They allowed Ukraine to build up a significant military over 8 years and then messed up on the engagement. Had they sent 300k into Kyiv all at once it would have been a different story.

Russia, if allowed to rebuild under Putin will be an even bigger threat in 5 years. Mark my words. They are psychos and hold major grudges. Letting up now is akin to letting a bully get of easy then him and his older brother jump you later when your not expecting it.

Either you have magical access to a very high level database of stores across the DOD or your speculating based on “conversations” in any event I doubt anyone with said access to restricted databases is going to post it here. If you are and do, that’s your clearance not mine.

Buying and producing new ammo stocks is on the US budget and future shopping list. Taiwan isn’t going to be lost or won because of our strategic army stockpiles of 155, 120, gmlrs etc. I’ll worry when I see loads of barges clearing out Yorktown.
View Quote

Yes. We all agree that Russian's plan for this invasion was pants-on-head retarded. They seriously underestimated the UA and Ukraine in general. And the NATO response. And they seem to have made EVERY tactical and strategic error possible. But, I believe that with the right plan and right leadership, they had the forces necessary to take Kiev. Although certainly not to occupy or hold the whole country. It is possible, even likely that some elements of the Russian military IS learning some lessons from this fiasco and could possibly make some changes. I doubt it but it's possible.

Most of what we are seeing now is the remnants of that beaten army. Conscripts, mobiks, drunks and Wagner ex-convicts. It's like looking at the German army of 1945 and saying "they were never a threat to us".

I think it would be folly to assume the Russian military will never again be a threat.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 11:02:07 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By j_hooker:

Yeah, R0N is losing me.  I thought it was due to the improper use and lack of Himars rockets since he mentioned he has special intel, which I could understand . Then it was a fear of a void/vacuum if Putin left. I’m starting to see he has different issues now. I asked for ideas a 1000 pages back along with others and we’ll, I haven’t read of any ideas yet from R0N
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By j_hooker:
Originally Posted By postpostban:
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By dillydilly:
Originally Posted By R0N:


That sounds good and may make a good bumper sticker but in the real world you cannot trade dead Ukrainians for new control and steering units for M31s, IMX 101 for M795s, seekers for JAVs etc  we now need to buy.

That’s not how war works. As the poster above me said, Ukraine better align with us. They have nautical resources and a work force that can be used to cover that.

I have a feeling I know quite a bit more about how war works than most

And you may want to look up lend lease, because some nations are still making payments on that


So what EXACTLY do you think the US government should be doing?

You keep beating the same bushes, but you don't seem to actually get to a point.

Yeah, R0N is losing me.  I thought it was due to the improper use and lack of Himars rockets since he mentioned he has special intel, which I could understand . Then it was a fear of a void/vacuum if Putin left. I’m starting to see he has different issues now. I asked for ideas a 1000 pages back along with others and we’ll, I haven’t read of any ideas yet from R0N


That is my take as well.
Walking away now demonstrates yet again that we have zero commitment to our beliefs and our allies.
Ukraine has become the best chance I have seen since Korea maybe to actually help people who want to be free. Refusing to help because we have to maintain stockpile numbers seems foolish. Those stockpiles are only there to be used against our enemies. Russia has more than earned the title of enemy.
Should we watch the equipment given to Ukraine like a hawk? Absolutely.
Should we expect Ukraine to pay us back? Absolutely.
Should there be strict accounting for every dollar spent on this war? You better believe it.
Should we walk away now from the financial investment we have already made? No way!

I won't comment on this, in this thread, again.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 11:04:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AROKIE] [#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ludder093:
you're thread sliding. Stop it.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ludder093:
Originally Posted By AROKIE:
Originally Posted By Banditman:
Stop

Leave it to rest

Its actually a good conversation for once, it's staying civil. For now
you're thread sliding. Stop it.


Lol
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 11:06:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PanzerOfDoom:

What’s been spent so far seems a bargain compared to the $20 Trillion + spent during the Cold War.

Not supporting Ukraine at this point would be completely foolish; it would pale in comparison to Biden’s abandonment of Afghanistan.
View Quote



Very true. Maybe part of the calculus for the support.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 11:07:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

Yes. We all agree that Russian's plan for this invasion was pants-on-head retarded. They seriously underestimated the UA and Ukraine in general. And the NATO response. And they seem to have made EVERY tactical and strategic error possible. But, I believe that with the right plan and right leadership, they had the forces necessary to take Kiev. Although certainly not to occupy or hold the whole country. It is possible, even likely that some elements of the Russian military IS learning some lessons from this fiasco and could possibly make some changes. I doubt it but it's possible.

Most of what we are seeing now is the remnants of that beaten army. Conscripts, mobiks, drunks and Wagner ex-convicts. It's like looking at the German army of 1945 and saying "they were never a threat to us".

I think it would be folly to assume the Russian military will never again be a threat.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer:


Russia was a strategic threat. They could have steam rolled the baltics, annexed adjacent territories, integrate their collective industries, that was the plan. They allowed Ukraine to build up a significant military over 8 years and then messed up on the engagement. Had they sent 300k into Kyiv all at once it would have been a different story.

Russia, if allowed to rebuild under Putin will be an even bigger threat in 5 years. Mark my words. They are psychos and hold major grudges. Letting up now is akin to letting a bully get of easy then him and his older brother jump you later when your not expecting it.

Either you have magical access to a very high level database of stores across the DOD or your speculating based on “conversations” in any event I doubt anyone with said access to restricted databases is going to post it here. If you are and do, that’s your clearance not mine.

Buying and producing new ammo stocks is on the US budget and future shopping list. Taiwan isn’t going to be lost or won because of our strategic army stockpiles of 155, 120, gmlrs etc. I’ll worry when I see loads of barges clearing out Yorktown.

Yes. We all agree that Russian's plan for this invasion was pants-on-head retarded. They seriously underestimated the UA and Ukraine in general. And the NATO response. And they seem to have made EVERY tactical and strategic error possible. But, I believe that with the right plan and right leadership, they had the forces necessary to take Kiev. Although certainly not to occupy or hold the whole country. It is possible, even likely that some elements of the Russian military IS learning some lessons from this fiasco and could possibly make some changes. I doubt it but it's possible.

Most of what we are seeing now is the remnants of that beaten army. Conscripts, mobiks, drunks and Wagner ex-convicts. It's like looking at the German army of 1945 and saying "they were never a threat to us".

I think it would be folly to assume the Russian military will never again be a threat.


I tend to agree. My only quibble would be to say that it is like looking at the German army of 1918 and "saying they were never a threat to us".
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 11:09:09 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Freiheit8472:
BTW- the debate going on is head and shoulders above “social media” discourse anywhere else.

It’s a passionate debate, and people are making actual arguments. Some jabs here and there to keep the corner judges busy with super glue and q-tips!  

We’re all probably rusty. We used to have such debates in daily life… the olden days.

Still the best forum, in all our books!
View Quote

Agreed. For the folks posting "stop sliding the thread" I say THIS IS THE THREAD!

This thread should be more than just vid's of Russians getting droned, daily RU KIA totals, and "slava Ukraini" from people who couldnt find Ukraine on a map a few months ago.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 11:10:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dillydilly] [#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By realwar:
Ukraine Gets 800 Taiwan-Made ‘Carpet Bomber’ Revolver 860 Combat Drones

https://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/conflict/russia_invasion_ukraine/Ukraine_army_using_Taiwan-made_DronesVision_Revolver_860_combat_drones_1.jpg

The Revolver 860 is a VTOL combat drone with four arms and eight rotors. Its weapons bay (a barillet, hence its name of ”revolver”) can carry up to eight 60mm mortar shells
View Quote


That’s a whole lot of pain right there.
Link Posted: 11/21/2022 11:14:08 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By m35ben:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RvmMqro7rk
View Quote

Link Posted: 11/21/2022 11:17:27 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By postpostban:
...Refusing to help because we have to maintain stockpile numbers seems foolish. Those stockpiles are only there to be used against our enemies. Russia has more than earned the title of enemy...
View Quote


Gonna have to disagree on that point.

We shouldn't be depleting our stockpiles, we should use this as a test to put domestic production on war footing and see what we can actually crank out if the need requires it. Got old stuff sitting around? Make the new stuff and once delivered to the units ship the old stuff out. Lets us upgrade our line systems and see where our shortcomings are on the production/logistics front in the event of an actual war. Frankly we need to see how rusty the "arsenal of democracy" actually is at this point.
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