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Posted: 10/27/2021 8:27:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: The_Beer_Slayer]
This is now the active "shit News links, thanks to BerettaGuy: Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: LINKS TO UKRAINIAN NEWS SOURCES IN ENGLISH Kyiv Post Ukrainian News UKRInform EUROMAIDEN PRESS New Voice of Ukraine Kyiv Independent Ukraine World InterFax Ukraine UATV Ukrainian Journal Official Website of the President of Ukraine Ukrainian Ministry of Defense Save these links. I can't post all the headlines like I've done in the past - too much news and too often. Please @ me with additional stuff to be added here. I don't currently have time to properly curate this thread otherwise. New news link c/o berettaguy: Ukrainian Pravda https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/ Stop fake, anti - disinformation site: https://www.stopfake.org/en/main/ |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2022 3:20:10 PM EDT
[#1]
Winter offensive needs to be mounted.
The Russians are really banking hard that Ukraine will be too weak to do anything other than fight defensively. Hyper accurate weather reports, proper stockpiling of equipment, and getting the newly trained and mobilized troops out of Poland, Germany, and the UK to get into the respective units is highly needed. As soon as the ground is nice and frozen Ukraine should launch a devastating Winter offensive. The Russians will be too comfortable, poorly equipped, and they'll be crushed. It would also help Ukraine's moral during what will be a very harsh winter for them. |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 3:22:41 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dillydilly: That term has been thrown out in this thread more times than you can shake a stick at. I haven't seen anyone get cautioned for using. My apologies though. I want to make it clear that I do not hate Russians. At least not all of them. Only the ones in the context of supporting or being involved in this war. I have made no secret of it. Many, such as Putin himself, clearly appear to be irredeemable. They've grossly violated the social contract. We've seen it repeatedly in their social media posts, news media programs, and direct rhetoric from their leaders and public via phone calls and interviews. As I told OP, unless you're Ukrainian, it may be harder to understand what kind of history my family has experienced first-hand from these people. So if anything in 2022, it feels like Jews=Ukrainians and Russians=Nazis. I understand, but I also don't want the rhetoric to go to the extremes because nothing good will come of it. |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 3:24:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dillydilly]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: I understand, but I also don't want the rhetoric to go to the extremes because nothing good will come of it. Sometimes it may seem as though what I say is extreme. There is an emotional element to it, no doubt. Hard to contain it at times because this is so very personal to me. Thank for understanding man. |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 3:25:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonS: Russia is less of a threat than China. And our own government. And Russia isn't USSR. Back in the time of the USSR it was our biggest threat. On the other hand, I don't expect Russia to come over to the good side. They will remain a bad actor, for any foreseeable future. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonS: Originally Posted By sq40: It’s been our war since March 12th, 1947. Maps and faces have changed many times, but the core of what this is, has remained, despite every effort to change things for the better. I tire of explaining this over and over again, so forgive me for being blunt. But Russia is, and has been, our greatest enemy, and the only hostile force that can destroy us completely, even if it’s MAD. They simply must be vanquished if we are going to have some form of a future on Earth. Russia is less of a threat than China. And our own government. And Russia isn't USSR. Back in the time of the USSR it was our biggest threat. On the other hand, I don't expect Russia to come over to the good side. They will remain a bad actor, for any foreseeable future. I'm no Russia expert. But I paid attention during the Cold War, and during and after the breakup of the Soviet Union. My impression is that, after the breakup and a lot of American aid and food flowed into Russia to stave off that first, cold winter, the average Russian was very favorably disposed towards the west and the United States in particular. They aped American culture, embraced free enterprise, they loved us. Then things changed. There was a period when the oligarchs were taking over, corruption at high levels was increasing as the Russian Mafia expanded. Americans were starting to get critical of Russia over these and other issues as free enterprise flailed under the influence of the Mob and failed to raise the average Russian's prosperity. Suddenly, Russian attitudes went from being like our "little brother" to "We are tired of being looked down on by the Americans." That was about the time Putin started his rise to power. I really don't know if the Russian culture followed Putin's rise, or if Putin rose because Russian culture started to demand a strongman like him. |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 3:25:12 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 10/21/2022 3:27:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dillydilly]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime:
Gonna say that this is staged. Clean clothes, not showing their faces. Right… |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 3:28:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Zhukov]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dillydilly: Exactly this. Jews were not in charge of 1930's Germany. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dillydilly: Originally Posted By stgdz: I guess my problem with this is that the Jews didn't invade and slaughter a country in the 30's. We have discussed at length how Russia has done this for hundreds of years but they have gotten a pass from the west up until this year. Exactly this. Jews were not in charge of 1930's Germany. It's the rhetoric of painting people you dislike as something less-than-human. In that sense, the analogy is EXACTLY the same so quit making excuses. Grumble it under your breath if you want, but don't post it here. ETA: Saw your first reply: Thanks for understanding. 
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Posted: 10/21/2022 3:28:36 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thehun06: Do you actually believe that Russia actually cares about Crimea… Yes |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 3:29:46 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: Yes Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: Originally Posted By thehun06: Do you actually believe that Russia actually cares about Crimea… Yes The have since the Crimean War |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2022 3:33:44 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Russia has recently shifted tactics to destroying Ukrainian power plants and other critical infrastructure far from the front line. From the Orc point of view, blowing the damn would be consistent with their new tactic because it’s also a hydroelectric power generation facility. They probably also view it as a way to blunt Ukr momentum toward re-taking the Crim. But the humanitarian death-toll would likely harden EU resolve to end this militarily, instead of negotiation. The super-risky operation Ukr could use here would be an IDF commando-style raid (maybe with HALO paratroops or captured Russian uniforms or something) to take out all the Orcs in darkeness, and safely remove the mines. It would required a simultaneous push south from UKR troops to hold the position though. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Originally Posted By Tiberius: Originally Posted By dillydilly: Originally Posted By Tiberius: I could see it if their logic was that not only will they not be able to retake the dam complex, but they expect to lose Crimea, too. The idea could simply be their way of being spiteful so Ukraine doesn’t enjoy their victory. I mean that would be a major echo of their admittance that they are gonna lose this war. Exactly. They blow the dam, all that remains to be decided is the scale of Ukraine’s victory, how long it will take, and the ultimate cost. Russia has recently shifted tactics to destroying Ukrainian power plants and other critical infrastructure far from the front line. From the Orc point of view, blowing the damn would be consistent with their new tactic because it’s also a hydroelectric power generation facility. They probably also view it as a way to blunt Ukr momentum toward re-taking the Crim. But the humanitarian death-toll would likely harden EU resolve to end this militarily, instead of negotiation. The super-risky operation Ukr could use here would be an IDF commando-style raid (maybe with HALO paratroops or captured Russian uniforms or something) to take out all the Orcs in darkeness, and safely remove the mines. It would required a simultaneous push south from UKR troops to hold the position though. If they blow the dam the canal that supplies Crimea with water dries up as the reservoir that feeds it will go bye bye for years to come because the dam that holds it is breached. |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 3:35:46 PM EDT
[#11]
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2022 3:38:37 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By apr67: Of what the US has sent to Ukraine, what do you think would be useful for the a war over Taiwan? Do you think we would be any more willing as a county to put our troops on that island to defend it than we are to put troops in Ukraine? Personally (regardless of who is president) I doubt that if China decides to make good on its promise to take Taiwan back, that the US will do more than hem and haw. I really doubt we would do as much as we are doing for Ukraine. Same answer for Japan, and I think even S. Korea. If they moved onto Australia, then we might get serous. Just my personal option, if it isn't white people who talk like us, we just don't really care. I dont know. If it ends up a contested fight for Taiwan, maybe some of the similar systems, HIMARS etc. It would be very different since Ukraine is wide open for Western aid while Taiwan would be sealed off. I agree that the US does NOT directly help Taiwan, certainly not with troops. Maybe we aid Japan and S. Korea with air power if they get heavily involved. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2022 3:44:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: What it’s like to load and fire the T-72 maingun:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdwOX3xhZYcThis video was posted pre-invasion. Must have been “bring your wife to work day” or something. Mobiks probably won’t fair much better. She is kinda cute. I'd have the same sour look if I was in her shoes... |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2022 3:47:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Et2ss: You think that audience cares much about wypipo in Europe ? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Et2ss: You think that audience cares much about wypipo in Europe ? What makes you think that? Originally Posted By Et2ss: It was said that it was televised before an NBA broadcast. I didn't watch the vid (no audio at work anyway) I think you are making assumptions about the actual NBA audience demographics and NBA roster construction. https://runrepeat.com/nba-popularity (audience demographics). ------ 2022-23 Pre Season MVP odds Top 5 Luka Doncic +400. Born: February 28, 1999, Ljubljana, Slovenia  Joel Embiid. +600. Born: March 16, 1994, Yaoundé, Cameroon  Giannis Antetokounmpo. +650. Born: December 6, 1994, Athens, Greece  Kevin Durant. +850. Born: September 29, 1988, Washington, D.C USA  Nikola Jokic. +900. Born: February 19, 1995, Sombor, Serbia, FR Yugoslavia  Outside of potentially hockey (currently 41 Russian born players in the NHL, so maybe not), the NBA is probably the best (of the big 4) sport to broadcast such a message given its global audience and roster constructions. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2022 3:49:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By amannamedjed: I'm no Russia expert. But I paid attention during the Cold War, and during and after the breakup of the Soviet Union. My impression is that, after the breakup and a lot of American aid and food flowed into Russia to stave off that first, cold winter, the average Russian was very favorably disposed towards the west and the United States in particular. They aped American culture, embraced free enterprise, they loved us. Then things changed. There was a period when the oligarchs were taking over, corruption at high levels was increasing as the Russian Mafia expanded. Americans were starting to get critical of Russia over these and other issues as free enterprise flailed under the influence of the Mob and failed to raise the average Russian's prosperity. Suddenly, Russian attitudes went from being like our "little brother" to "We are tired of being looked down on by the Americans." That was about the time Putin started his rise to power. I really don't know if the Russian culture followed Putin's rise, or if Putin rose because Russian culture started to demand a strongman like him. I remember that time of "thawing relations" in the 90's. I enjoyed all the movies filmed in Russia like Saint with Val Kilmer and one of the Bond movies where Pierce Brosnan drives a Russian tank around town crushing shit. It was very cool. I also visited E. Europe a lot back then. |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 3:53:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dillydilly]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: It's the rhetoric of painting people you dislike as something less-than-human. In that sense, the analogy is EXACTLY the same so quit making excuses. Grumble it under your breath if you want, but don't post it here. ETA: Saw your first reply: Thanks for understanding. Zhukov, I’ll say one more thing on this, realizing you saw my first reply. I won’t go as far as painting them as sub-humans, but their actions are. Acting inhumane in it of itself is sub-human is it not? I don’t think murderers and those calling for a group to be wiped out deserve to be treated with dignity. Anyways, I’ll grumble outside of this thread going forward. |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 3:55:41 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 10/21/2022 3:58:37 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R0N: The have since the Crimean War Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R0N: Originally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: Originally Posted By thehun06: Do you actually believe that Russia actually cares about Crimea… Yes The have since the Crimean War Crimea has kind of become Russia’s version of Florida in their minds. A hot Vacation spot. |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:00:39 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dillydilly: Zhukov, I'll say one more thing on this, realizing you saw my first reply. I won't go as far as painting them as sub-humans, but their actions are. Acting inhumane in it of itself is sub-human is it not? I don't think murderers and those calling for a group to be wiped out deserve to be treated with dignity. Anyways, I'll grumble outside of this thread going forward. I agree. My problem is with saying that they're irredeemable. |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:02:15 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonS: Russia is less of a threat than China. And our own government. And Russia isn't USSR. Back in the time of the USSR it was our biggest threat. On the other hand, I don't expect Russia to come over to the good side. They will remain a bad actor, for any foreseeable future. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonS: Originally Posted By sq40: It’s been our war since March 12th, 1947. Maps and faces have changed many times, but the core of what this is, has remained, despite every effort to change things for the better. I tire of explaining this over and over again, so forgive me for being blunt. But Russia is, and has been, our greatest enemy, and the only hostile force that can destroy us completely, even if it’s MAD. They simply must be vanquished if we are going to have some form of a future on Earth. Russia is less of a threat than China. And our own government. And Russia isn't USSR. Back in the time of the USSR it was our biggest threat. On the other hand, I don't expect Russia to come over to the good side. They will remain a bad actor, for any foreseeable future. 
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USA
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:03:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dominion21]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tiberius: If they blow the dam the canal that supplies Crimea with water dries up as the reservoir that feeds it will go bye bye for years to come because the dam that holds it is breached. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tiberius: Originally Posted By Dominion21: Originally Posted By Tiberius: Originally Posted By dillydilly: Originally Posted By Tiberius: I could see it if their logic was that not only will they not be able to retake the dam complex, but they expect to lose Crimea, too. The idea could simply be their way of being spiteful so Ukraine doesn’t enjoy their victory. I mean that would be a major echo of their admittance that they are gonna lose this war. Exactly. They blow the dam, all that remains to be decided is the scale of Ukraine’s victory, how long it will take, and the ultimate cost. Russia has recently shifted tactics to destroying Ukrainian power plants and other critical infrastructure far from the front line. From the Orc point of view, blowing the damn would be consistent with their new tactic because it’s also a hydroelectric power generation facility. They probably also view it as a way to blunt Ukr momentum toward re-taking the Crim. But the humanitarian death-toll would likely harden EU resolve to end this militarily, instead of negotiation. The super-risky operation Ukr could use here would be an IDF commando-style raid (maybe with HALO paratroops or captured Russian uniforms or something) to take out all the Orcs in darkeness, and safely remove the mines. It would required a simultaneous push south from UKR troops to hold the position though. If they blow the dam the canal that supplies Crimea with water dries up as the reservoir that feeds it will go bye bye for years to come because the dam that holds it is breached. On the one hand, all of what you wrote is true. On the other hand: - Russia knows Ukraine is going to turn off the water to Crimea if they recapture the damn. Everyone knows this because: - from 2014 (when Russia illegally annexed Crimea) up to the 2022 invasion, Ukraine did in fact cut off the water to Crimea. Russia tried to replace the water supply with de-salination equipment (which never worked well) and by trucking in water. When Russia occupied the Kherson region earlier this year (through treachery) the Russians turned the water back on to Crimea. They know the water will soon stop flowing due to the counteroffensive. When the damn looks likely to fall back into Ukrainian hands, I doubt Russia will simply relinquish control over the water to Ukraine. They will blow the damn upon retreat. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:04:22 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dillydilly: Gonna say that this is staged. Clean clothes, not showing their faces. Right… Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dillydilly: Originally Posted By Prime:
Gonna say that this is staged. Clean clothes, not showing their faces. Right… Beyond staged. Supposedly giving all three of his teenage sons battlefield creds lately. 100% bullshit. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:06:08 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: It's the rhetoric of painting people you dislike as something less-than-human. In that sense, the analogy is EXACTLY the same so quit making excuses. Grumble it under your breath if you want, but don't post it here. ETA: Saw your first reply: Thanks for understanding. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Originally Posted By dillydilly: Originally Posted By stgdz: I guess my problem with this is that the Jews didn't invade and slaughter a country in the 30's. We have discussed at length how Russia has done this for hundreds of years but they have gotten a pass from the west up until this year. Exactly this. Jews were not in charge of 1930's Germany. It's the rhetoric of painting people you dislike as something less-than-human. In that sense, the analogy is EXACTLY the same so quit making excuses. Grumble it under your breath if you want, but don't post it here. ETA: Saw your first reply: Thanks for understanding. Far worse is said on this site every day about Americans on the other side of the political spectrum. |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:06:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dillydilly]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: I agree. My problem is with saying that they're irredeemable. My hope is that a future Russia finally sees the error of their ways and permanently changes for the better. In that they shed what’s been a part of their society for hundreds of years. That will confirm if there is redemption or not. A lot of good Russian folks are fleeing, probably never to return. I hope that those who come back are able to bring a permanent tide of change. For now, the jury is out. To put some additional perspective from the other side on this, several of my Russian friends are neutral on this topic. They don’t agree with Ukrainian suffering but think there is a more nefarious reason why Ukraine wants to be free of Russian influence. So as you can imagine, even those good folks aren’t outside of the sphere of Russian dogma. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:06:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By apr67: Of what the US has sent to Ukraine, what do you think would be useful for the a war over Taiwan? Do you think we would be any more willing as a county to put our troops on that island to defend it than we are to put troops in Ukraine? Personally (regardless of who is president) I doubt that if China decides to make good on its promise to take Taiwan back, that the US will do more than hem and haw. I really doubt we would do as much as we are doing for Ukraine. Same answer for Japan, and I think even S. Korea. If they moved onto Australia, then we might get serous. Just my personal option, if it isn't white people who talk like us, we just don't really care. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By apr67: Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: False. A war with China will be a "coma as you are" war. Once we fire off our missiles etc, that's it. It takes years to make most of our high tech gear. It's not like getting Ford and GM to make Sherman's instead of F150's. It's a very complicated process. Not to mention getting the needed parts and chips etc. We could/would ramp up but most likely it would make no difference, unless it settles into a WWI style stalemate. Of what the US has sent to Ukraine, what do you think would be useful for the a war over Taiwan? Do you think we would be any more willing as a county to put our troops on that island to defend it than we are to put troops in Ukraine? Personally (regardless of who is president) I doubt that if China decides to make good on its promise to take Taiwan back, that the US will do more than hem and haw. I really doubt we would do as much as we are doing for Ukraine. Same answer for Japan, and I think even S. Korea. If they moved onto Australia, then we might get serous. Just my personal option, if it isn't white people who talk like us, we just don't really care. That sort of talk reminds me of those who think we held off using the bomb on Germany because they were white “Christians” and nuked Japan instead. Never mind the Nagasaki bomb was dropped on the city that contained 90%+ of Japan’s Christians. Truth is, it was bitchthink cooked up by the Soviets and spread by the hard Left and what few America Firsters were left by ‘45 after FDR had been totally vindicated once the death camps were found. Truth is, the only reason they escaped a nuke is they failed their Fuhrer and gave up before we had a bomb gtg. Germany and Japan were supposed to get a bomb on the same day. As for Taiwan, you’re dead wrong. We will fight for it, that has been the policy for decades, and for once in his life Joetard has been telling the truth when he admitted we’d be balls deep in any China-Taiwan war. Japan has already said they were in, and most likely Australia and the UK will join the festivities. Possibly France as well. The CCP cannot be allowed to have TSMC and the other chip fans, and we will fight to prevent it. It’s an absolute critical national security interest. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:08:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ludder093:
Dimon will need to be fitted for a orange jumpsuit for his trial. |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:09:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By amannamedjed: I'm no Russia expert. But I paid attention during the Cold War, and during and after the breakup of the Soviet Union. My impression is that, after the breakup and a lot of American aid and food flowed into Russia to stave off that first, cold winter, the average Russian was very favorably disposed towards the west and the United States in particular. They aped American culture, embraced free enterprise, they loved us. Then things changed. There was a period when the oligarchs were taking over, corruption at high levels was increasing as the Russian Mafia expanded. Americans were starting to get critical of Russia over these and other issues as free enterprise flailed under the influence of the Mob and failed to raise the average Russian's prosperity. Suddenly, Russian attitudes went from being like our "little brother" to "We are tired of being looked down on by the Americans." That was about the time Putin started his rise to power. I really don't know if the Russian culture followed Putin's rise, or if Putin rose because Russian culture started to demand a strongman like him. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By amannamedjed: Originally Posted By DonS: Originally Posted By sq40: It’s been our war since March 12th, 1947. Maps and faces have changed many times, but the core of what this is, has remained, despite every effort to change things for the better. I tire of explaining this over and over again, so forgive me for being blunt. But Russia is, and has been, our greatest enemy, and the only hostile force that can destroy us completely, even if it’s MAD. They simply must be vanquished if we are going to have some form of a future on Earth. Russia is less of a threat than China. And our own government. And Russia isn't USSR. Back in the time of the USSR it was our biggest threat. On the other hand, I don't expect Russia to come over to the good side. They will remain a bad actor, for any foreseeable future. I'm no Russia expert. But I paid attention during the Cold War, and during and after the breakup of the Soviet Union. My impression is that, after the breakup and a lot of American aid and food flowed into Russia to stave off that first, cold winter, the average Russian was very favorably disposed towards the west and the United States in particular. They aped American culture, embraced free enterprise, they loved us. Then things changed. There was a period when the oligarchs were taking over, corruption at high levels was increasing as the Russian Mafia expanded. Americans were starting to get critical of Russia over these and other issues as free enterprise flailed under the influence of the Mob and failed to raise the average Russian's prosperity. Suddenly, Russian attitudes went from being like our "little brother" to "We are tired of being looked down on by the Americans." That was about the time Putin started his rise to power. I really don't know if the Russian culture followed Putin's rise, or if Putin rose because Russian culture started to demand a strongman like him. The problem is we hung a bunch of German Nazi war criminals but never hung the Soviet war criminals. They just became the Russian crime bosses/Putins. There was never a purge of the communist true believers like the Nazi true believers. |
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CHN
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:14:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By amannamedjed: I'm no Russia expert. But I paid attention during the Cold War, and during and after the breakup of the Soviet Union. My impression is that, after the breakup and a lot of American aid and food flowed into Russia to stave off that first, cold winter, the average Russian was very favorably disposed towards the west and the United States in particular. They aped American culture, embraced free enterprise, they loved us. Then things changed. There was a period when the oligarchs were taking over, corruption at high levels was increasing as the Russian Mafia expanded. Americans were starting to get critical of Russia over these and other issues as free enterprise flailed under the influence of the Mob and failed to raise the average Russian's prosperity. Suddenly, Russian attitudes went from being like our "little brother" to "We are tired of being looked down on by the Americans." That was about the time Putin started his rise to power. I really don't know if the Russian culture followed Putin's rise, or if Putin rose because Russian culture started to demand a strongman like him. Advanced nations all have high trust cultures. Russia doesn't have that, and can't become advanced or achieve any kind of well functioning society until it does. Same reason most countries are trapped where they are. With respect to the change in Russia: at the time of the collapse of the USSR and the immediate aftermath, Russians were faced with harsh reality. They had already lost their confrontation with the US, it had been a long term thing and I don't think there was much personal animosity between the two sides. When your situation is real bad you focus on that and not on resentment towards those better off. However, as time went on they achieved a (relative) higher level of wealth and comfort, allowing them to return to thoughts of national greatness, implying comparison to the US. And resulting resentment. |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:15:50 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonS: Advanced nations all have high trust cultures. Russia doesn't have that, and can't become advanced or achieve any kind of well functioning society until it does. Same reason most countries are trapped where they are. With respect to the change in Russia: at the time of the collapse of the USSR and the immediate aftermath, Russians were faced with harsh reality. They had already lost their confrontation with the US, it had been a long term thing and I don't think there was much personal animosity between the two sides. When your situation is real bad you focus on that and not on resentment towards those better off. However, as time went on they achieved a (relative) higher level of wealth and comfort, allowing them to return to thoughts of national greatness, implying comparison to the US. And resulting resentment. This is a solid video covering that transitional phase from Soviet Union to Russia in the early 90’s.  The Day Russian Democracy Died |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:21:11 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:21:56 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tiberius: That sort of talk reminds me of those who think we held off using the bomb on Germany because they were white "Christians" and nuked Japan instead. Never mind the Nagasaki bomb was dropped on the city that contained 90%+ of Japan's Christians. Truth is, it was bitchthink cooked up by the Soviets and spread by the hard Left and what few America Firsters were left by '45 after FDR had been totally vindicated once the death camps were found. Truth is, the only reason they escaped a nuke is they failed their Fuhrer and gave up before we had a bomb gtg. Germany and Japan were supposed to get a bomb on the same day. As for Taiwan, you're dead wrong. We will fight for it, that has been the policy for decades, and for once in his life Joetard has been telling the truth when he admitted we'd be balls deep in any China-Taiwan war. Japan has already said they were in, and most likely Australia and the UK will join the festivities. Possibly France as well. The CCP cannot be allowed to have TSMC and the other chip fans, and we will fight to prevent it. It's an absolute critical national security interest. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tiberius: Originally Posted By apr67: Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: False. A war with China will be a "coma as you are" war. Once we fire off our missiles etc, that's it. It takes years to make most of our high tech gear. It's not like getting Ford and GM to make Sherman's instead of F150's. It's a very complicated process. Not to mention getting the needed parts and chips etc. We could/would ramp up but most likely it would make no difference, unless it settles into a WWI style stalemate. Of what the US has sent to Ukraine, what do you think would be useful for the a war over Taiwan? Do you think we would be any more willing as a county to put our troops on that island to defend it than we are to put troops in Ukraine? Personally (regardless of who is president) I doubt that if China decides to make good on its promise to take Taiwan back, that the US will do more than hem and haw. I really doubt we would do as much as we are doing for Ukraine. Same answer for Japan, and I think even S. Korea. If they moved onto Australia, then we might get serous. Just my personal option, if it isn't white people who talk like us, we just don't really care. That sort of talk reminds me of those who think we held off using the bomb on Germany because they were white "Christians" and nuked Japan instead. Never mind the Nagasaki bomb was dropped on the city that contained 90%+ of Japan's Christians. Truth is, it was bitchthink cooked up by the Soviets and spread by the hard Left and what few America Firsters were left by '45 after FDR had been totally vindicated once the death camps were found. Truth is, the only reason they escaped a nuke is they failed their Fuhrer and gave up before we had a bomb gtg. Germany and Japan were supposed to get a bomb on the same day. As for Taiwan, you're dead wrong. We will fight for it, that has been the policy for decades, and for once in his life Joetard has been telling the truth when he admitted we'd be balls deep in any China-Taiwan war. Japan has already said they were in, and most likely Australia and the UK will join the festivities. Possibly France as well. The CCP cannot be allowed to have TSMC and the other chip fans, and we will fight to prevent it. It's an absolute critical national security interest. I keep feeling like it's 1939 all over again . . . |
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CHN
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:32:42 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: The problem is we hung a bunch of German Nazi war criminals but never hung the Soviet war criminals. They just became the Russian crime bosses/Putins. There was never a purge of the communist true believers like the Nazi true believers. We never had a means to do that. In 1945 the American people wouldn't have supported war against the USSR. Once USSR had developed nukes anything like that was off the table. We were not going to do something like that in the 90s. And Putin isn't a communist true believer, there were few of those at the end of the USSR. The Russians who look fondly on the USSR days do so because they felt they were a superpower then. |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:37:59 PM EDT
[#33]
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:39:15 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R0N: HIMARS, GMLRS, Excalibur, Javelin, and Stinger, probably less so for the ballistic 155. Myself, I would think Harpoons would be one of the most heavily used, and longer range SAM's.. |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:46:05 PM EDT
[#35]
Ukrainian soldiers say Russians are preparing to abandon Kherson as they say the Russians are 'moving heavy equipment'
 Ukrainian soldiers say Russians are prepare to abandon Kherson as they are 'moving heavy equipment' |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:48:31 PM EDT
[#36]
Ukraine's Soviet-Era T-64B Tanks Target Russian Logistics In Defense Of Bakhmut
 Ukraine's Soviet-Era Tanks Target Russian Logistics In Defense Of Bakhmut |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:49:41 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: On the one hand, all of what you wrote is true. On the other hand: - Russia knows Ukraine is going to turn off the water to Crimea if they recapture the damn. Everyone knows this because: - from 2014 (when Russia illegally annexed Crimea) up to the 2022 invasion, Ukraine did in fact cut off the water to Crimea. Russia tried to replace the water supply with de-salination equipment (which never worked well) and by trucking in water. When Russia occupied the Kherson region earlier this year (through treachery) the Russians turned the water back on to Crimea. They know the water will soon stop flowing due to the counteroffensive. When the damn looks likely to fall back into Ukrainian hands, I doubt Russia will simply relinquish control over the water to Ukraine. They will blow the damn upon retreat. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dominion21: Originally Posted By Tiberius: Originally Posted By Dominion21: Originally Posted By Tiberius: Originally Posted By dillydilly: Originally Posted By Tiberius: I could see it if their logic was that not only will they not be able to retake the dam complex, but they expect to lose Crimea, too. The idea could simply be their way of being spiteful so Ukraine doesn’t enjoy their victory. I mean that would be a major echo of their admittance that they are gonna lose this war. Exactly. They blow the dam, all that remains to be decided is the scale of Ukraine’s victory, how long it will take, and the ultimate cost. Russia has recently shifted tactics to destroying Ukrainian power plants and other critical infrastructure far from the front line. From the Orc point of view, blowing the damn would be consistent with their new tactic because it’s also a hydroelectric power generation facility. They probably also view it as a way to blunt Ukr momentum toward re-taking the Crim. But the humanitarian death-toll would likely harden EU resolve to end this militarily, instead of negotiation. The super-risky operation Ukr could use here would be an IDF commando-style raid (maybe with HALO paratroops or captured Russian uniforms or something) to take out all the Orcs in darkeness, and safely remove the mines. It would required a simultaneous push south from UKR troops to hold the position though. If they blow the dam the canal that supplies Crimea with water dries up as the reservoir that feeds it will go bye bye for years to come because the dam that holds it is breached. On the one hand, all of what you wrote is true. On the other hand: - Russia knows Ukraine is going to turn off the water to Crimea if they recapture the damn. Everyone knows this because: - from 2014 (when Russia illegally annexed Crimea) up to the 2022 invasion, Ukraine did in fact cut off the water to Crimea. Russia tried to replace the water supply with de-salination equipment (which never worked well) and by trucking in water. When Russia occupied the Kherson region earlier this year (through treachery) the Russians turned the water back on to Crimea. They know the water will soon stop flowing due to the counteroffensive. When the damn looks likely to fall back into Ukrainian hands, I doubt Russia will simply relinquish control over the water to Ukraine. They will blow the damn upon retreat. The canal is on their side of the river. Ukraine won’t blow the dam because they are winning, they would only do it out of desperation. The only reason for the Russians to blow it to cover their retreat is because they know they will not only never be able to take it back, but also Crimea will be taken back from them soon. In other words, it’s a frank admission that the war is lost. If they have/had any hope of eventual victory, they would not breach the dam because they need it. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:50:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: apr67]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tiberius: That sort of talk reminds me of those who think we held off using the bomb on Germany because they were white “Christians” and nuked Japan instead. We never cared about the 6 million Jews being exterminated, nor did we care about the hundreds we turned away at our shores trying to escape. Had Pearl not happened, I wonder how WWII would have ended. I don't think the citizens of this country are ready to commit their sons and daughters to die for Taiwan, any more than they are ready to commit them to die for Ukraine. |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:56:00 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 10/21/2022 4:59:20 PM EDT
[#40]
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PRK
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Posted: 10/21/2022 5:05:36 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By apr67: We never cared about the 6 million Jews being exterminated, nor did we care about the hundreds we turned away at our shores trying to escape. Had Pearl not happened, I wonder how WWII would have ended. I don't think the citizens of this country are ready to commit their sons and daughters to die for Taiwan, any more than they are ready to commit them to die for Ukraine. |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 5:07:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dillydilly]
[#42]
I’ll come out and say I apologize for using the term “mongoloid” because after doing some research, I realized that is a racial term. My initial understanding of it was more line with barbarism and savagery. So my bad, apologies for anyone offended.
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Posted: 10/21/2022 5:07:46 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tiberius: If they blow the dam the canal that supplies Crimea with water dries up as the reservoir that feeds it will go bye bye for years to come because the dam that holds it is breached. The correct operational move from a utilities standpoint would be to wreck the turbine house, but leave the dam standing. Unless the purpose of blowing the dam would be to cause massive downstream destruction... but Russia has lots of forces downstream, too, and they're mostly on the low (left bank) side. |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 5:11:15 PM EDT
[#44]
 https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1686110/russia-su27-missile-RAF-spy-plane-black-sea-incident-ukraine-latest-vn "For about 90 minutes on the day they did that the Russians then departed, once they were out of sight that's when the incident occurred. "The Russians claim this was a technical malfunction, you don't launch missiles as a technical malfunction. "This was quite an intentional act. What is also the case is the Russians are intensely frustrated at the West's use of air and space power to support Ukraine. "If they had managed to shoot this down it would have been a massive coup for Russia and also could have provoked NATO to provide a response which of course would suit Putin's agenda." (Retired air Vice-Marshall Sean Bell) I'm a little perplexed on how little fanfare this story has gotten which I'm sure the UK is grateful for, but had that Flanker shot down that RJ whether intentional or not.. we might have very well entered this war. |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 5:12:21 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: What makes you think that? I think you are making assumptions about the actual NBA audience demographics and NBA roster construction. https://runrepeat.com/nba-popularity (audience demographics). ------ 2022-23 Pre Season MVP odds Top 5 Luka Doncic +400. Born: February 28, 1999, Ljubljana, Slovenia https://duckduckgo.com/i/dcbf4819.jpg Joel Embiid. +600. Born: March 16, 1994, Yaoundé, Cameroon https://duckduckgo.com/i/2394aa10.jpg Giannis Antetokounmpo. +650. Born: December 6, 1994, Athens, Greece https://duckduckgo.com/i/5bd25275.jpg Kevin Durant. +850. Born: September 29, 1988, Washington, D.C USA https://duckduckgo.com/i/c0b3f8c8.jpg Nikola Jokic. +900. Born: February 19, 1995, Sombor, Serbia, FR Yugoslavia https://duckduckgo.com/i/58dc17bd.jpg Outside of potentially hockey (currently 41 Russian born players in the NHL, so maybe not), the NBA is probably the best (of the big 4) sport to broadcast such a message given its global audience and roster constructions. 15 to 16% of the NBA are wypipo. How many of them give a shit about Ukraine |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 5:34:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: LurkerII]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/49447/77F0F553-2DB9-4A09-8D5D-4E8BA1EE8726_jpe-2570890.JPG A quick explanation for others like me that have no idea what that patch was all about: Twelve US F-22 Raptor aircraft take part in NATO exercises in Poland along with Polish F-16s, MIG-29s and Italian Eurofighter Typhoons at the Lask military base. The US 5th generation aircraft will stay in the country until the end of November amid tensions with Russia over its invasion of Ukraine. Omer Nafiz Gulmezoglu, a Turkish NATO Brigadier Commander, confirms that the alliance has seen an increase in Russian air force activities since the invasion began in February. | Via AFP |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 5:38:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AF-ATC]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Haub: [F-22 Joins The Chat]  https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52443675331_c74ce269f1_b.jpg Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM73bdU2_Hc Not uncommon my friend |
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USA
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Posted: 10/21/2022 5:40:10 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaerMorhenResident: Winter offensive needs to be mounted. The Russians are really banking hard that Ukraine will be too weak to do anything other than fight defensively. Hyper accurate weather reports, proper stockpiling of equipment, and getting the newly trained and mobilized troops out of Poland, Germany, and the UK to get into the respective units is highly needed. As soon as the ground is nice and frozen Ukraine should launch a devastating Winter offensive. The Russians will be too comfortable, poorly equipped, and they'll be crushed. It would also help Ukraine's moral during what will be a very harsh winter for them. You don’t think this isn’t happening? |
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USA
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Posted: 10/21/2022 5:48:32 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark: What makes you think that? I think you are making assumptions about the actual NBA audience demographics and NBA roster construction. https://runrepeat.com/nba-popularity (audience demographics). ------ 2022-23 Pre Season MVP odds Top 5 Luka Doncic +400. Born: February 28, 1999, Ljubljana, Slovenia https://duckduckgo.com/i/dcbf4819.jpg Joel Embiid. +600. Born: March 16, 1994, Yaoundé, Cameroon https://duckduckgo.com/i/2394aa10.jpg Giannis Antetokounmpo. +650. Born: December 6, 1994, Athens, Greece https://duckduckgo.com/i/5bd25275.jpg Kevin Durant. +850. Born: September 29, 1988, Washington, D.C USA https://duckduckgo.com/i/c0b3f8c8.jpg Nikola Jokic. +900. Born: February 19, 1995, Sombor, Serbia, FR Yugoslavia https://duckduckgo.com/i/58dc17bd.jpg Outside of potentially hockey (currently 41 Russian born players in the NHL, so maybe not), the NBA is probably the best (of the big 4) sport to broadcast such a message given its global audience and roster constructions. Futbol, then a far second, hockey, then a far third baseball are the most "diverse" sports. NBA and NFL don't even come close. |
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Posted: 10/21/2022 5:48:43 PM EDT
[#50]
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