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Posted: 10/27/2021 8:27:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: The_Beer_Slayer]
It says it's been moved, but the link just takes me to the Community page. What gives?


This is now the active "shit (might be) is definitely happening in Ukraine" thread.

News links, thanks to BerettaGuy:
Originally Posted By BerettaGuy:
LINKS TO UKRAINIAN NEWS SOURCES IN ENGLISH

Kyiv Post

Ukrainian News

UKRInform

EUROMAIDEN PRESS

New Voice of Ukraine

Kyiv Independent

Ukraine World

InterFax Ukraine

UATV

Ukrainian Journal

Official Website of the President of Ukraine

Ukrainian Ministry of Defense

Save these links. I can't post all the headlines like I've done in the past - too much news and too often.
View Quote


Please @ me with additional stuff to be added here. I don't currently have time to properly curate this thread otherwise.

New news link c/o berettaguy:

Ukrainian Pravda
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/

Stop fake, anti - disinformation site:
https://www.stopfake.org/en/main/
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:07:12 PM EDT
[#1]


Wonder if they will time threatening noises at the UN shortly after nasty noises on TV?
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:07:58 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:09:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AzSteven:


I think they are not using it because its not there.

We know that, in the late 80s and early 90s, the USSR still had warehouse after warehouse stuffed with ww2-era weapons, but I suspect a LOT of that got scrapped or sold off to the Third World during their lean years.  I especially think that is true for ammunition (small arms and artillery).  That based on 20+ years of weird historical and ancient weapons showing up in sizable numbers in conflict after conflict in Africa and the Middle East. I also expect during those lean years there was not a lot of money to maintain stored gear, or even to ensure they were kept out of the weather.

They may still have a stockpile of some things, and some percentage of them are marginally operable or repairable (and I suspect that percentage may not be all that high).  Putin may very well declare a full mobilization, but barring either a massive inflow of arms from China or some sort of Reverse Lend-Lease to get their stuff back from Africa and the Middle East, I expect that conscript army is not going to be particularly well equipped or effective.
View Quote


Think about how many cases of 7.62x54 and 5.45x39 are sitting in our houses in the US and how many are in Africa and other hotbeds
in the world. They have sold off a bunch of stuff since the collapse of the CCCP
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:09:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:



The problem is they don't *make* anything themselves. They would have to build a defense industry practically from scratch by....springtime? Best case scenario? And that might be too late. Mobilization might happen. Transitioning the economy isn't going to though.
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I'm standing by to see RU human wave attacks armed with newly made PPSh subguns, riding on the backs of newly made T34/72 tanks with no radio, NV, thermal. And new missiles using vacuum tubes.

I think a lot of Russians grew up hearing about the Great Patriotic War and may get nostalgic. But I think most patriotic Russians are already in Ukraine (many burried).
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:10:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mokerr:


The dude without a head?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mokerr:
Originally Posted By Swampgrass:


Legs appear to be tied up.

Or am I seeing something else ?


The dude without a head?


Lol, not him. The guy kinda laying in the middle of the rubble. Look at his knees and ankles.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:11:04 PM EDT
[#6]
But how does a zerg rush save him?

Lets be realistic here.

How is their long range precision munitions situation looking?   They've been firing alot of shitty 1960s crap with accuracy measured in minute of village, lately.   What happened to all the Kalibers and Iskanders?

How does their air defense situation look?   Last I saw, they were gutting air defense from St. Petersburg to Syria to send it down to Ukraine.  With no sign that they have any real answer to the loss other than to hope the US stops supplying Ukraine with HARMs or runs out before they run out of radars.

They're going to equip these conscript hordes with T55s and T62s and do the whole "quantity has a quality all its own!" thing?  Ok.   How does that prevent Ukraine from hitting their command posts, muster points, ammo dumps, and train stations like they've been doing?

What's their countermeasure for HIMARS and other "long" (medium) range strikes that have put the Russians in this position in the first place?  

What's their plan for gaining air superiority?  Bear in mind, we're almost 7 months into this thing and Russia still hasn't gained air superiority.  They're still losing aircraft when they put it in a position remotely able to get shot down.   How is the "zerg rush" of conscripts with AKs and 60 year old tanks going to fix that?

Again... where's the artillery?   If they have scads of artillery tubes and ammo just lying around, why are they allowing their troops around Kherson to get pounded by Ukrainian artillery with little or no counter fire?

Perhaps most importantly, what's the west doing during this buildup to a "zerg rush"?   Do we imagine that these Russian conscripts can be mobilized and thrown into the fight without the US or Europe noticing or doing anything about it?  

What's Russia's plan to interdict the supplies and weapons coming across the Polish border?  Sit in the corner and fume impotently some more?   Maybe they can throw some long range precision missiles that way that they totally have tons of and aren't in any way running low on with little ability to replace them any time soon.

A "zerg rush" sounds like a great way to get a SHITLOAD of Russians killed for little or no purpose.   Thinking about it realistically and comparing it to the actual specific problems Russia faces in this war, I don't see how it will deliver them a win.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:13:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:15:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History

So technically, since they cant leave Russia, it will be illegal to enter Ukraine?

Problem solved?

Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:16:54 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Banditman:


Think about how many cases of 7.62x54 and 5.45x39 are sitting in our houses in the US and how many are in Africa and other hotbeds
in the world. They have sold off a bunch of stuff since the collapse of the CCCP
View Quote



I think a pertinent question to ask would be, "How much of their vaunted stockpiles of artillery rounds was made in this century?"
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:18:25 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
To those who are asking "What could Putin do with mobilization since they don't have a lot of equipment?"

A LOT. They do still have a bunch of reserves of older materiel sitting around and if he sends a couple of hundred thousand young boys on a Zerg rush against the Ukrainians they WILL win the war. The only questions to be answered:
1) Will the draftees actually do it?
2) Will the population allow it?

In WW2, the answer was obviously yes; everyone saw that their very existence was at stake. For Ukraine? I doubt it but who knows...
View Quote



That's assuming that older material even works. I give that about a 5% chance.


Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:18:31 PM EDT
[#11]
https://www.newsweek.com/putin-ukraine-war-conflict-nato-referendums-donbas-1744586

Putin 'Going All In' to Turn Ukraine War Into Conflict With NATO, Ally Says

Vladimir Putin is going "all in" to turn the Ukraine war into a conflict with NATO, an ally of the Russian president said ahead of referendums later this month on joining Russia in four occupied regions.
—-
Margarita Simonyan, editor-in-chief of RT, the state-controlled Russian media organization, made the remarks on her Facebook page. Meanwhile, two breakaway regions of Ukraine's eastern Donbas region—the Donetsk and Luhansk people's republics (DPR and LPR)—have announced plans to hold referendums on joining Russia.
—-
Dmitry Medvedev, deputy chairman of Russia's Security Council, said Tuesday on his Telegram channel that the results of the referendums will be irreversible.

"It is important that after amendments to the Constitution of our state, not a single future leader of Russia, not a single official will be able to reverse these decisions," Medvedev said.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:21:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Swampgrass:


Legs appear to be tied up.

Or am I seeing something else ?
View Quote


The red and white cloth mark russian or LPR soldiers I believe
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:23:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Zerg rushes need muster points, and muster points are (apparently) yummy targets.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:24:36 PM EDT
[#14]
I seem to recall multiple news stories about Russia forming combat units out of their training cadres.  

So who is going to train up all these little zerglings?

Are they going to pull combat vets off the line out of Kherson?  

Logistics... how is a Zerg rush going to fix the lack of last mile logistics that has hampered them from DAY 1 of this conflict?     If anything, a massive influx of conscripts will make their truck (and fork truck and fucking wooden pallet!) shortage even worse.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:24:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sq40:
https://www.newsweek.com/putin-ukraine-war-conflict-nato-referendums-donbas-1744586

Putin 'Going All In' to Turn Ukraine War Into Conflict With NATO, Ally Says

Vladimir Putin is going "all in" to turn the Ukraine war into a conflict with NATO, an ally of the Russian president said ahead of referendums later this month on joining Russia in four occupied regions.
—-
Margarita Simonyan, editor-in-chief of RT, the state-controlled Russian media organization, made the remarks on her Facebook page. Meanwhile, two breakaway regions of Ukraine's eastern Donbas region—the Donetsk and Luhansk people's republics (DPR and LPR)—have announced plans to hold referendums on joining Russia.
—-
Dmitry Medvedev, deputy chairman of Russia's Security Council, said Tuesday on his Telegram channel that the results of the referendums will be irreversible.

"It is important that after amendments to the Constitution of our state, not a single future leader of Russia, not a single official will be able to reverse these decisions," Medvedev said.
View Quote


Last gasp effort to save credibility.
Monty Python and the Holy Grail - The Insulting Frenchman
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:26:29 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Swampgrass:
Legs appear to be tied up.

Or am I seeing something else ?
View Quote

I can't see that the legs are tied together. Might be inadequate field tourniquets applied before his battle buddy took a round to the melon, and he blacked out and bled out.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:26:58 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
Zerg rushes need muster points, and muster points are (apparently) yummy targets.
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Its the zap brannigan maneuver.   Send in wave after wave of their own men to soak up munitions until the Kill-bots, uh, I mean HIMARs reach their preset kill limits.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:29:29 PM EDT
[#18]
The "zerg rush"/total war thing has got to be a bluff meant to sway western opinion to opposing continued aid to Ukraine.   They simply cannot be this stupid.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:29:32 PM EDT
[#19]
If Putin wants to go all-in, he should launch some cruise missiles at Poland.  Poland would have Kalingrad wrapped up by Friday.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:30:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:30:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RolandofGilead] [#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
If Putin wants to go all-in, he should launch some cruise missiles at Poland.  Poland would have Kalingrad wrapped up by Friday.
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*Konigsberg


Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:33:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
*Konigsberg


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Poland would come up with a more Polish name - wanting nothing to do with either German or Russian prior tenancy there.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:36:52 PM EDT
[#23]
This is an interesting video from a few days ago, interviewing territorial militia (I don't think they even qualify as TDF), in which they complain (a little bit, and with plenty of justification) about how little they are paid by the state, and how upset they were with police and government forces who fled the city in the early days of the Russian invasion...only for them to return and be granted medals and much higher salaries than the "average Joes" who stayed behind.

Some of these average Joes broke into state armories and took weapons in order to fight the Russians, and now some are facing criminal prosecution for stealing state property!!

Government is apparently the same everywhere: "Follow the laws we set for you, even while we sometimes ignore them, and don't make us look bad"!

??????? ???? ? ?????? – ??????: ????? ????? ???????????? ?? ??? +ENG SUB


These guys are from Sumy. That area has gotten quieter now, but you guys remember in Feb and March when the "Sumy Axis" was the hot news item, right?
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:37:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Capta:


The most obvious problem with the referendum bluff is that (from the wests perspective) if they let it happen once it will never stop.
“Oh, didn't you hear?  We had a secret referendum among the russian-speakers in east germany last week because they’re afraid of their nazi government.  They voted for unification with Russia effective immediately.  Now get out or we kill everyone.”
It’s so farcical that it doesn't even bear discussion.
View Quote

What if this referendum talk is strictly for the domestic audience? "We promised them we would kick out the Ukrainian nazi's so they can have a referendum. We did both, now we can go home to celebrate our victory".

I doubt it but fingers are crossed.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:40:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Zhukov:
To those who are asking "What could Putin do with mobilization since they don't have a lot of equipment?"

A LOT. They do still have a bunch of reserves of older materiel sitting around and if he sends a couple of hundred thousand young boys on a Zerg rush against the Ukrainians they WILL win the war. The only questions to be answered:
1) Will the draftees actually do it?
2) Will the population allow it?

In WW2, the answer was obviously yes; everyone saw that their very existence was at stake. For Ukraine? I doubt it but who knows...
View Quote



I don't see how that would have a snowball's chance in hell of working in Russia's favor unless they want a couple of hundred thousand Russian corpses fertilizing the Ukrainian countryside.  Reference Japanese banzai attacks against US forces in the South Pacific.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:41:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Circuits:

Poland would come up with a more Polish name - wanting nothing to do with either German or Russian prior tenancy there.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Circuits:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
*Konigsberg



Poland would come up with a more Polish name - wanting nothing to do with either German or Russian prior tenancy there.



Yeah I'm just kidding, just anything but Kaliningrad.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:42:42 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
But how does a zerg rush save him?

Lets be realistic here.

How is their long range precision munitions situation looking?   They've been firing alot of shitty 1960s crap with accuracy measured in minute of village, lately.   What happened to all the Kalibers and Iskanders?

How does their air defense situation look?   Last I saw, they were gutting air defense from St. Petersburg to Syria to send it down to Ukraine.  With no sign that they have any real answer to the loss other than to hope the US stops supplying Ukraine with HARMs or runs out before they run out of radars.

They're going to equip these conscript hordes with T55s and T62s and do the whole "quantity has a quality all its own!" thing?  Ok.   How does that prevent Ukraine from hitting their command posts, muster points, ammo dumps, and train stations like they've been doing?

What's their countermeasure for HIMARS and other "long" (medium) range strikes that have put the Russians in this position in the first place?  

What's their plan for gaining air superiority?  Bear in mind, we're almost 7 months into this thing and Russia still hasn't gained air superiority.  They're still losing aircraft when they put it in a position remotely able to get shot down.   How is the "zerg rush" of conscripts with AKs and 60 year old tanks going to fix that?

Again... where's the artillery?   If they have scads of artillery tubes and ammo just lying around, why are they allowing their troops around Kherson to get pounded by Ukrainian artillery with little or no counter fire?

Perhaps most importantly, what's the west doing during this buildup to a "zerg rush"?   Do we imagine that these Russian conscripts can be mobilized and thrown into the fight without the US or Europe noticing or doing anything about it?  

What's Russia's plan to interdict the supplies and weapons coming across the Polish border?  Sit in the corner and fume impotently some more?   Maybe they can throw some long range precision missiles that way that they totally have tons of and aren't in any way running low on with little ability to replace them any time soon.

A "zerg rush" sounds like a great way to get a SHITLOAD of Russians killed for little or no purpose.   Thinking about it realistically and comparing it to the actual specific problems Russia faces in this war, I don't see how it will deliver them a win.
View Quote


You saved me a lot of writing, but some people won't be convinced by anything.

Russia has proven to be a hollow shell of itself - most of the money has been stolen and used to purchase yachts and foreign property (bolt-holes and mistress nests) in foreign countries. Just like in the USSR days, the entire system is built on stealing and lying to your superiors, all while you secretly find a way to LEAVE, either temporarily or permanently.

Meanwhile Ukraine gets stronger by the day. The only way the West and Ukraine can lose is if we are stupid enough to believe their propaganda, or be cowed by their threats.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:43:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TxRabbitBane] [#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:



Yeah I'm just kidding, just anything but Kaliningrad.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Originally Posted By Circuits:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
*Konigsberg



Poland would come up with a more Polish name - wanting nothing to do with either German or Russian prior tenancy there.



Yeah I'm just kidding, just anything but Kaliningrad.


They can argue with the Lithuanians about what to call it when they’re celebrating at the Lithuanian border with their new neighbors.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:48:32 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Squatch:




Imagine being a 65-year old pensioner in Russia, hanging out drinking vodka at your Dacha, being told to report for duty in Ukraine.
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This seems really short sighted of Putin.
I mean, we have all heard the calls the soldiers make to their wives.
They are some cold bitches, they might make good soldiers.

Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:50:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sq40:


Does Comoro have T-72s?  Those qualify as space based weapons.
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Originally Posted By sq40:
Originally Posted By charlesb_la:
Originally Posted By Billy_Ringo:
Based on extensive research assembled by a task force of some of the most brilliant military minds the world has to offer, the Comoro Islands have a population of 1,000,000 and a military budget of $0.   So, basically, the Russians signed a monumental and strategic agreement with a country similar in size and scope to Tulsa.  But if I had to put my money on it, I'd take Tulsa in a rout over the Comoro Islands.  

Anyone know whether or not the Russians have dispersed riot police around the cities of Moscow and St. Petersburg?  Might be a little hint as to what's about to happen.
We owe the Russians our thanks on this one. The Comorian Death Star would have been fully operational in mere days. Space Force can breath easy now.

I wonder if the callup will even affect the cities or will just focus on rural areas and the backwater territories. That could lead to problems for them also, they really don't need unrest to spread when they are already stripping the cupboard bare. It will give us something to watch.


Does Comoro have T-72s?  Those qualify as space based weapons.


Attachment Attached File

Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:53:10 PM EDT
[#31]
Got this in the mail today Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 5:56:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ContraHQ] [#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KELBEAST:


The red and white cloth mark russian or LPR soldiers I believe
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KELBEAST:
Originally Posted By Swampgrass:


Legs appear to be tied up.

Or am I seeing something else ?


The red and white cloth mark russian or LPR soldiers I believe


He's talking about this

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 6:11:30 PM EDT
[#33]
If Putin keeps fucking around, we might have to loan this guy to Ukraine for a few months...

Rambo Beavis 4K remaster from Beavis and Butt-Head King Turd Collection Topaz Video Enhance A.I.


He fucking hates commies. And he loves fires and explosions.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 6:13:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By _disconnector_:
A Zerg rush won't win a modern war.  Even religiously fanatical Iranians couldn't successfully human wave the Iraqis with 80s equipment - and the Russians are significantly less personally motivated.  And as we've already seen in countless videos, artillery and drones make the life of a light infantryman very very short without AD and AEW assets nearby.  It would just be a slaughter.  200K week old soldiers with MN30/91s wouldn't make it past a river.

In WWII the Russians eventually mastered combined arms - but they had a MASSIVE industrial base + lend lease to arm the masses.  Russia has nothing like this now.

Also, they might break through 90km or so but eventually the Russian logistical train will grind to a halt again.  It's inevitable as atomic decay that the Russians have learned nothing this quickly.  It took them 3 years in WWII and they were fighting for their literal existence.

We have to make sure that we don't underestimate the Russians - but expecting them to build an effective fighting force from the ground up after the beating that they have already taken in an unnecessary war is just silly.  I would think that they would pop a nuke first . . . in fact that's my shiny penny bet.  My money is on the Russians using a tactical nuke somewhere in central Ukraine on a large troop concentration.
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Me too. My question is will Russia pop that nuke first or wait for their fully mobilized conscripts being slaughtered first.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 6:16:01 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ContraHQ:


He's talking about this

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/541466/1Untitled_jpg-2533342.JPG
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ContraHQ:
Originally Posted By KELBEAST:
Originally Posted By Swampgrass:


Legs appear to be tied up.

Or am I seeing something else ?


The red and white cloth mark russian or LPR soldiers I believe


He's talking about this

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/541466/1Untitled_jpg-2533342.JPG


Yes.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 6:19:34 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By anonimovaca:


Maybe you are being told that Ukraine didn’t kill 14,000 ethnic Russians in Donbas?

https://mkaradjis.com/2022/06/16/on-the-fantastic-tale-that-the-ukrainian-army-killed-14000-ethnic-russians-in-donbas-between-2014-and-2022/

“According to the UN Commission on Human Rights (UNCHR), the numbers killed in Donbas from 14 April 2014 to 31 December 2021 were:

4,400 Ukrainian troops

6,500 Russia—owned separatist troops

3,404 civilians

So, let’s be clear: we are talking about 3,404 civilians, killed by both sides, over 2014-2021.

Almost all the 14,000 deaths, including almost all the 3,404 civilians, were killed when the open conflict was raging from 2014 till the ceasefire in mid-2015 – that is, during a time when no-one seriously denies the direct involvement (ie, invasion) by the Russian army. Let’s just look at the OSCE Status Reports from 2016-2022.

The OSCE report ‘Civilian casualties in eastern Ukraine 2016’ shows there were 88 fatalities in 2016, including 37 from landmines, unexploded ordinance etc.

The OSCE report on civilian casualties covering 2017 to September 2020 shows 161 fatalities over those almost 4 years, of which the majority (81) were from landmines, unexploded ordinance etc. Note that both sides lay landmines.”

I don’t know the exact claims you are talking about though. Keep in mind, anyone can say anything on the Internet. Don’t judge all of what the population of the world thinks based on what you see a few people say on the Internet.
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Thank you for posting this.

I had never heard the idiotic claim that Ukraine killed civilians in Donbas. I was glued to the TV/news when this first kicked off in 2014 and all I can remember is Russian troops attacking Ukraine town after town. I'm sure civilians were killed and NONE of it would have happened without the illegal Russian invasion. This is like a criminal gang doing a home invasion, shooting up an innocent family then blaming them for the whole thing. I cannot imagine the type of personality to fall for such garbage.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 6:22:52 PM EDT
[#37]
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 6:23:30 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

Thank you for posting this.

I had never heard the idiotic claim that Ukraine killed civilians in Donbas. I was glued to the TV/news when this first kicked off in 2014 and all I can remember is Russian troops attacking Ukraine town after town. I'm sure civilians were killed and NONE of it would have happened without the illegal Russian invasion. This is like a criminal gang doing a home invasion, shooting up an innocent family then blaming them for the whole thing. I cannot imagine the type of personality to fall for such garbage.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
Originally Posted By anonimovaca:


Maybe you are being told that Ukraine didn't kill 14,000 ethnic Russians in Donbas?

https://mkaradjis.com/2022/06/16/on-the-fantastic-tale-that-the-ukrainian-army-killed-14000-ethnic-russians-in-donbas-between-2014-and-2022/

"According to the UN Commission on Human Rights (UNCHR), the numbers killed in Donbas from 14 April 2014 to 31 December 2021 were:

4,400 Ukrainian troops

6,500 Russia owned separatist troops

3,404 civilians

So, let's be clear: we are talking about 3,404 civilians, killed by both sides, over 2014-2021.

Almost all the 14,000 deaths, including almost all the 3,404 civilians, were killed when the open conflict was raging from 2014 till the ceasefire in mid-2015   that is, during a time when no-one seriously denies the direct involvement (ie, invasion) by the Russian army. Let's just look at the OSCE Status Reports from 2016-2022.

The OSCE report 'Civilian casualties in eastern Ukraine 2016' shows there were 88 fatalities in 2016, including 37 from landmines, unexploded ordinance etc.

The OSCE report on civilian casualties covering 2017 to September 2020 shows 161 fatalities over those almost 4 years, of which the majority (81) were from landmines, unexploded ordinance etc. Note that both sides lay landmines."

I don't know the exact claims you are talking about though. Keep in mind, anyone can say anything on the Internet. Don't judge all of what the population of the world thinks based on what you see a few people say on the Internet.

Thank you for posting this.

I had never heard the idiotic claim that Ukraine killed civilians in Donbas. I was glued to the TV/news when this first kicked off in 2014 and all I can remember is Russian troops attacking Ukraine town after town. I'm sure civilians were killed and NONE of it would have happened without the illegal Russian invasion. This is like a criminal gang doing a home invasion, shooting up an innocent family then blaming them for the whole thing. I cannot imagine the type of personality to fall for such garbage.



It's VERY common rhetoric among useful idiots and propagandists these days, it's worth it to have those numbers above from the UN.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 6:30:00 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jack67:
A fresh day in Ukraine, a fresh Russian war crime: indiscriminate use of incendiary munitions on civilian homes, churches, etc..

Ozerne, neary Lyman in Donetsk Ob.  Just liberated two weeks ago.



https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/556465/Ozerne_thermit_9_2022_jpg-2532684.JPG
View Quote
Has this been confirmed?  Are there any aftermath photos for proof?

I'm asking because the video (and audio) are very cinematic feeling.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 6:35:38 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By THOT_Vaccine:


That whole "Military spending is a waste of tax dollars!" line of thought that had become popular seems to have poofed overnight.
Funny that
View Quote


It's hard to argue that when one looks to spending on homeless and high speed rail, etc., in California (and I'd expect there are successes elsewhere, too.  (laughingly sarcastic)).  OTOH, most of the defense spending goes elsewhere because the aerospace defense industry has moved away with all the others.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 6:38:34 PM EDT
[#41]
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Originally Posted By DonS:


Someone should suggest that to Putin.
View Quote


My god. That's a fantastic idea. Russia could claim they had killed all the nazis and say they are going to respect the rights of the people in the region. Mission accomplished, russia is the good guys, then go home before they are pushed to the point of public embarrassment that they have to do something stupid.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 6:42:21 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Francisco_dAnconia:
Has this been confirmed?  Are there any aftermath photos for proof?

I'm asking because the video (and audio) are very cinematic feeling.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Francisco_dAnconia:
Originally Posted By Jack67:
A fresh day in Ukraine, a fresh Russian war crime: indiscriminate use of incendiary munitions on civilian homes, churches, etc..

Ozerne, neary Lyman in Donetsk Ob.  Just liberated two weeks ago.



https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/556465/Ozerne_thermit_9_2022_jpg-2532684.JPG
Has this been confirmed?  Are there any aftermath photos for proof?

I'm asking because the video (and audio) are very cinematic feeling.


There are some articles on it. This one names the Ukrainian MP that shared it.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the-sun.com/news/6263556/footage-thermite-bombs-blitz-ukarien-ozerne/amp/
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 6:44:13 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GTLandser:
This is an interesting video from a few days ago, interviewing territorial militia (I don't think they even qualify as TDF), in which they complain (a little bit, and with plenty of justification) about how little they are paid by the state, and how upset they were with police and government forces who fled the city in the early days of the Russian invasion...only for them to return and be granted medals and much higher salaries than the "average Joes" who stayed behind.

Some of these average Joes broke into state armories and took weapons in order to fight the Russians, and now some are facing criminal prosecution for stealing state property!!

Government is apparently the same everywhere: "Follow the laws we set for you, even while we sometimes ignore them, and don't make us look bad"!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ICjkz7EP2Q

These guys are from Sumy. That area has gotten quieter now, but you guys remember in Feb and March when the "Sumy Axis" was the hot news item, right?
View Quote

Gentlemanfarmer discussed how the Ukrainian government disarmed Ukrainian militias near Crimea, as they weren't military and therefore weren't allowed to have guns. I hope Ukraine changes its stance on civilian gun ownership and militias after the war is over, but I'm not hopeful, given that they're likely to join the EU. It is what it is I suppose.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 6:45:08 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:



It's VERY common rhetoric among useful idiots and propagandists these days, it's worth it to have those numbers above from the UN.
View Quote

I've never heard of the accusation but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Anyway, specific stats like those posted are what the argument needed.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 6:47:14 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Francisco_dAnconia:
Has this been confirmed?  Are there any aftermath photos for proof?

I'm asking because the video (and audio) are very cinematic feeling.
View Quote

It does look very "spectacular" unless you are in the middle of it.
It looks like the numerous other videos of the Russians doing the same shit in other places.
The video is legit.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 7:02:00 PM EDT
[#46]
1) I just heard that the russian government a day or 2 ago modified the mobilization laws making it easier. It took them 4 hours to introduce the changes and pass them. Did anybody else hear about that?

2)Maybe I missed it, but putins plan (probably tomorrow) will be lightning fast elections along the occupied areas, everybody will vote to become part of russia, then when Ukraine tries to take land russia is going to say that mainland russia is being attacked and enact mobilization and say it's justification for chemical weapons and nukes. And I'm sure they will also sell it as a glorious battle for the motherland against NATO forces. I mean, everybody knows that's what he is going to do unless he is stopped, right? I've seen pieces of this puzzle discussed but I may have missed it being spelled out.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 7:03:37 PM EDT
[#47]
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 7:04:16 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

I've never heard of the accusation but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Anyway, specific stats like those posted are what the argument needed.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:



It's VERY common rhetoric among useful idiots and propagandists these days, it's worth it to have those numbers above from the UN.

I've never heard of the accusation but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Anyway, specific stats like those posted are what the argument needed.

Not so common here thankfully, but I see it a lot other places.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 7:06:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GoldenMead] [#49]
Maybe we are all looking at this possible mobilization wrong.  What if he’s putting his country on a war footing to not take Ukraine but to defend actual Russia.  Maybe Putin wants his country to become completely self sufficient because they are going to do something that will truly make them a pariah.  If Russia nukes Ukraine to hold what ground they have left they will be truly sanctioned completely. North Korea type sanctions.

Conventionally they can’t hope to win. So they nuke Ukraine to stop the bloodletting.  He will need an army to defend the motherland and factories retooled for domestic use production.
Link Posted: 9/20/2022 7:07:01 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By stone-age:
1) I just heard that the russian government a day or 2 ago modified the mobilization laws making it easier. It took them 4 hours to introduce the changes and pass them. Did anybody else hear about that?

2)Maybe I missed it, but putins plan (probably tomorrow) will be lightning fast elections along the occupied areas, everybody will vote to become part of russia, then when Ukraine tries to take land russia is going to say that mainland russia is being attacked and enact mobilization and say it's justification for chemical weapons and nukes. And I'm sure they will also sell it as a glorious battle for the motherland against NATO forces. I mean, everybody knows that's what he is going to do unless he is stopped, right? I've seen pieces of this puzzle discussed but I may have missed it being spelled out.
View Quote


Putin may or may not have the clout to pull it off.

He was going to pull that shit tonight and backed off... Wonder why?
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