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Posted: 1/22/2006 8:15:21 AM EDT
[#1]
The ones that get on TV tend to give the rest a bad name I think. The ones in Congress are especially bad. Doesn't help that the Christian President wants to change the Constitution for a certain group of people. 'Hate' may be too extreme of a word for most, but malice and condescension are not.
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Posted: 1/22/2006 10:48:22 AM EDT
[#2]
These folks often reject the idea of objective morality and objective truth. They don't want to be told that what activity they engage in is wrong. They twist the idea of "tolerance" to mean "don't say or do anything that might offend someone, and accept it as being the way it is." Someone who doesn't fit their description of "tolerant" is naturally intolerant, and intolerant people must be mean, and mean people hate. Christians, who tell us certain things are immoral, are by inference telling those peole that what they are doing (sex outside marriage, drugs, drunkenness, obscenity-spewing, porn surfing, etc.) is wrong, and are "intolerant," and must hate the people who engage in immorality.
Their identity is so wrapped up in their behavior that they can't separate the two, and don't want to. Thus any statement about certain activities is a judgement on them personally, which is "intolerant" and "hateful," because someone who was tolerant and loving wouldn't dare offend another person. donalp, the President doesn't want to change the Constitution for a certain group of people. It is a certain group of people who want to have their way and can't accomplish it through the legislature, so they turn to the courts to invent laws and "rights" that are nowhere in the Constitution. The President wants to amend the Constitution to protect the basic building block of societies. That is neither malicious nor condescending. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 10:58:31 AM EDT
[#3]
Rick 458,
Typically it is the result of people looking inward at their own self/life and are disgusted by what they see. Instead of making a change they lash out and condemn Christians for the way they feel about themselves. It is very easy to blame someone else rather than change. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 11:05:19 AM EDT
[#4]
I don't understand the question...which people?
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Posted: 1/22/2006 11:10:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Perhaps, perhaps not. But even you have to admit that there are a few self-proclaimed "christians" (wether they actually are or not is another issue) that DO like to get on TV and cause a media shitstorm by flapping their mouths, and that their actions DO reflect badly on christians in general. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 11:15:43 AM EDT
[#6]
Some Jews (I know I'm am generalizing here) Talk of Christianity as a religion of Hate
and I know some Groups such as the KKK and Nazi Party profess christianity to carry out hate but it is Deffinitely NOT scriptural. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 11:30:52 AM EDT
[#7]
__ I find it difficult to understand why segments of the majority religion in this country believe they are persecuted. I don't believe Christianity is a religion of hate. That said, there is a history of hate from Christian elements toward their co-religionists in this country which is undeniable. Ed |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 11:46:15 AM EDT
[#8]
The short version is that people don’t like being told that their behavior is not in line with the moral guidelines set forth in the bible. People tend to think that God will make an exception for their behavior because they do not feel condemned and they socialize with groups of like minded people that reinforce their beliefs. Christians get accused of ‘Hate’ because they love the sinners enough to actually tell them that they are not living a life that will get them to heaven and that is taken as hate because they feel they are being condemned to hell when it is actually their own behavior that is condemning them.
Some “christions” (left lower case intentionally) do tend project their high morals on non-believers and look down on them and point out all their flaws and short comings. I see that kind of behavior as hate and not in line with true Christian behavior. It also doesn’t help much when the media continually give attention to dolts like those that do the “God Hates Fags” protests. I think or at least hope there is a special place in hell for those people. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 11:49:19 AM EDT
[#9]
"People tend to think that God will make an exception for their behavior because they do not feel condemned and they socialize with groups of like minded people that reinforce their beliefs."
___ Who would believe that? P.S. I'm just trying to keep on-track.... |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 2:00:42 PM EDT
[#10]
Sinners. I am not looking at any particular groups; they all fit a general model. Some churches do not allow drinking or smoking or even women to cut their hair. People in churches tend to socialize with those that think like they do, sinners are no different. Look at the liberal mindset, they think that their view is correct and there are no other viable views. They believe in abortion and homosexuality and they will not hear anything to the contrary. Any opposing views are considered condemning and hate speech. I do find it odd that most divisions in denominations are either gender, sexual, or vice based. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 2:25:58 PM EDT
[#11]
The problem stems from Christians trying to use the Bible as a means to create laws and discriminate. Many things are considered 'sins' by Christians that cause no direct harm to others. While you may find it morally objectionable according to your belief system, that has no place in creating laws. There are many Christians who would love to ban guns as well.
And loonybin, yes the President does want to change the Constitution for a certain group of people. He wants to do this because he knows public opinion is growing fast against his belief system and he wants to stop it while he has a chance. As for you claiming that their rights don't exist, well maybe you forgot about the 14th amendment, I'm not sure. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 3:41:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Let's face it, "Christians" can sound/be pretty judgemental at times . . . |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 4:14:56 PM EDT
[#13]
I don't think the founding fathers saw it that way. This country is and has always been based on Christianity. As a representative republic (not democracy) Christians are free to elect and support political officials and as an 80% majority they tend to get most of what they want and they do it within the system. Most of the anti-organized religion laws have been brought forth through the courts. As to GWB's marriage amendment I think he is way out of line there. The last thing the country needs is to amend the Constitution once again to prohibit rights instead of recognizing them. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 4:22:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Short answer: satan There is extreme power in the name Jesus. That's why its always a battle to say it on TV. I even seen movies, made for TV, where the exclamation 'Jesus Christ' is changed to 'jeepers creepers' (although you can read the mouth) satan uses deception (the only thing he has to work with) and does anything to discredit the name Jesus or pevent it from being heard. satan knows the power of the Blood and is terrified of it. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 5:52:35 PM EDT
[#15]
This reasoning is exactly what I'm talking about. The idea that just because Christians are in the majority they can make the rules for everyone, including numerous victimless 'crimes'. As for the founding fathers, you might want to check your facts there, many were definitely not Christians and wanted to escape the religious authoritarianism. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 6:25:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Just because the majority votes they should be overruled?  I don't think that is how it works.The founding fathers were either deeply religious and/or they had a great respect for religion. If the had not they would not have recognized that our rights come from God. The founding fathers were against a government established church not a church involved in the government. To bear bad news: most people in first 175ish years of this nation were rather religious and most were Christian. It has been in the last 50 years that it has become fashionable to not be religious and denigrate others religions. |
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Posted: 1/22/2006 8:39:42 PM EDT
[#17]
So WHEN (not if) christians eventually become a minority in this country, will you then accept the non-christian majority making laws that you don't agree with? Or will you bitch and moan about them and cry persecution at every opportunity?
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Posted: 1/22/2006 9:25:08 PM EDT
[#18]
 Life is a series of judgement calls. When I am called judgemental, I know I hit a nerve... |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 1:43:05 AM EDT
[#19]
It's when you judge, without the benefit of being without vice or sin, that you become a hypocrite. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and all that jazz. I can't tolerate Christians who speak as if they are the conduit for God's will - preaching and condemning anyone different from themselves to an eternal fiery grave. What condescension and arrogance. That kind of rhetoric is born of hatred, not compassion. If you believe those who don't believe exactly as you do are going to burn in hell, why not keep that shit to yourself, mmkay? It strikes us non-christians as rather hostile. I won't tell you the Buddhists are right and you're going to come back as a dung fly, deal? |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 2:27:44 AM EDT
[#20]
Guess who 
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Posted: 1/23/2006 3:17:21 AM EDT
[#21]
Do you have any specific facts, or is that just trolling? |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 3:19:45 AM EDT
[#22]
Do what you wish, just don't expect organizational, fundamental, rules to be changed. If you are referring to homosexuality and I am sure you are, the bible is rather specific about that in many places. It is just the rules for that particular game; there are many other games available, play another one. I am just trying to answer the original question. My personal beliefs are different than most Christians. If you are interested in Christianity I would be more than willing to talk to you about it. If you are not interested, then I would not bore you nor waste my time. I don’t particularly care how people live as long as their lifestyle does not infringe on mine. I do hold homosexuality responsible for one thing, really bad net work television. It is not for me to judge because I don’t know, don’t care and I would not want the responsibility. There are other over zealous people who are not so unwilling to make judgments, it is not their place to do so either. |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 3:21:05 AM EDT
[#23]
Jesus gave Christians a command to be salt and light to the world. Salt purifies and preserves. Light shows the truth and exposes evil. He warned us not to hide our light, but to let all see it. He didn't say that we should be everybody's doormats. Christians have a responsibility to influence society for good. |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 3:32:43 AM EDT
[#24]
I was just trying to answer the who of "People tend to think that God will make an exception for their behavior because they do not feel condemned and they socialize with groups of like minded people that reinforce their beliefs" Which is why there are homosexual christians groups....I know I don't get it either. 
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Posted: 1/23/2006 3:51:20 AM EDT
[#25]
If I had to guess who was responsible for more hate in America, I would have to say that Pat Robertson and Jerry Fallwell would share #1. These guys have done more damage to Christianity because of their access to TV than anyone or anything else. Christianity needs a mini-reformation, it needs to go back to it's roots, spread love and compassion and everything else will fall into place but I don't see it happening any time soon there is way too much money in hate.
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Posted: 1/23/2006 4:27:51 AM EDT
[#26]
The faith is very much not deserving the hate it receives, however the public relations image is about as poor as religion can have. Despite biblical context such as, Matthew 6:2 "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. , many ministers and so called Christians continue to seek publicity wheter its good or bad. Who can forget Falwells "HIV is God's revenge on the unholy.' like a virus has a mind. Yes many hate Christians because they feel guilt towards a lifestyle that is contrary to Christian norms and are lashing out, but some of it is brought on by contraversial negative publicity. There is a distinct difference between "I am in better stead with the Lord" and "I am better than you." There really isn't much of a difference between telling someone they are wrong and telling someone they are stupid. Telling someone they are stupid is typically not the best way to get them to change. The natural reaction is to return a sentiment in kind. Hate begets hate. Just because Christianity is a religon people tend to lose sight of when talking of that religion to those not of the faith that they are in fact doing a selling job and some people couldn't sell a glass of water to a man dieing of thirst. The key to success is to not offend, present options, and allow the other person to draw a conclusion that is their idea. Over the last hundred years or so the church has done a terrible job of selling and the lack of growth shows it. Contrary to many non-Christian and modern Christian beliefs Christianity was not spread at the tip of the sword but by the truth of its teachings. Tj |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 4:55:21 AM EDT
[#27]
It is the standard "hue and cry" of all these Communist-activist groups to scream about how the people in the "status quo" must "hate" them, because we are not in favor of giving them what they want. It's been going on like this for over 100 years now, and look where it's gotten us.
It's like a child screaming for the chocolate bar in the grocery store that you aren't going to buy for him. Whenever you hear the word "hate" used in these circumstances, you can be sure that it is the "emotional-based" Democrats, or Communists using emotional terms to get you to release your reasoned thought process, and give in to their demands. |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 5:21:33 AM EDT
[#28]
I think the job of 95% of the church is cleaning up messes made by the other 5%.
Many people outside of Christianity form their opinion from the actions of a small minority. This leads to an inaccurate perception of what Christians are really like. |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 5:34:01 AM EDT
[#29]
I would say 99% & 1% but that 1% gets all the attention like that moron from the 'God Hates Fags' church. |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 6:10:55 AM EDT
[#30]
And the truly sad part about that is that God loves everybody, After All he sent his Son down for the Ultamite Sacrifice, for all sin.
Personally I think the desire for Homosexuality come from the enemy, who makes it seem natural. |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 7:19:14 AM EDT
[#31]
Well as far as the hate from "my group" towards Christains comes from Christians being on the front line of the proganda war against us. And that isn't just a "fred phelps" thing...most if not all the antigay groups that are trying to get us fired from jobs,thrown out of housing and generally forced from public eye are "faith based".
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Posted: 1/23/2006 7:57:37 AM EDT
[#32]
As a Christian, I find that type of behavior unacceptable. There is no love being shown from those that would act that way and that is very un-Christ like. As a Christian, I must admit that I do not condone nor endorse homosexuality BUT I feel no animosity towards them. There are gays in my classes and I really like them they are genuinely nice people we just have a different opinion. Since I know their stance I do not even broach the subject but it they bring it up I will and have had very civil and interesting conversations. Show love and acceptance of the person as a fellow human first, and the rest is what it is. |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 8:11:27 AM EDT
[#33]
The propaganda war works both ways...and the LBGT groups are just as guilty of "playing dirty" as the "faith based" side is.
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Posted: 1/23/2006 9:04:26 AM EDT
[#34]
I have a theory about Christians. We are taught that if you are being “persecuted” you are doing things correctly because Jesus was persecuted. Well all this “persecution” from the media and opposing ideological groups against Christians is just validating the radicals. If the opposition would just shut up, the Christians would settle down instead of continually ratcheting up the rhetoric. This will never happen of course because nobody gets on Fox News by not ruffling feathers and once these people get a taste of the camera they can’t get enough.
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Posted: 1/23/2006 7:17:16 PM EDT
[#35]
From the same place that makes peole think Jews are cheap, or blacks are dumb, or hispanics are theves etc. From a bigoted heart steered by confirmation bias. |
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Posted: 1/23/2006 8:43:05 PM EDT
[#36]
What, we can't legislate morality?
Wrong again. It is the small group of homosexual activists and activist judges who are trying to change the Constitution without going through the proper channels. An amendment to the Constitution reaffirming what has always been is not a change. It is a reaffirmation of what already is and always has been.
Sorry, but the 14th Amendment covers rights that are in the Constitution, which are God-given rights (remember the concept of "endowed by our Creator" in the Declaration of Independence? That's the idea where the BOR and other rights came from), and same-sex marriage is not a right guaranteed by the Constitution. You would have to throw out the intent of the Founding Fathers and their ideas and belief that led to the Constitution to arrive at that conclusion. Come to think of it, that's exactly what liberal activist judges are doing! |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 11:07:30 AM EDT
[#37]
Yet Bush has nowhere near enough support to execute his plan, and he'll have less support as time goes on. Do you think the courts that finally overturned segregation where also activists ignoring the Constitution?
Again, read up on the Founding Fathers to dispell this myth that they are all Jesus-loving people who want the Constitution to be about God. Do you think atheist and non-Christian marriages should be illegal since they are technically 'unholy'? |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 12:44:06 PM EDT
[#38]
It is you that is mixing secular and religious marriages. Main Entry: mar·riage Pronunciation: 'mer-ij, 'ma-rij Function: noun Etymology: Middle English mariage, from Anglo-French, from marier to marry (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law The .gov does not recognize same sex marriage as legal. You can be religiously married if you would like. All you would have to do is find a religion that would allow it. |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 2:34:20 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
This country is and has always been based on Christianity. As a representative republic (not democracy) Christians are free to elect and support political officials and as an 80% majority they tend to get most of what they want and they do it within the system. Most of the anti-organized religion laws have been brought forth through the courts. I wonder why so many Christians feel that they are being persecuted? Why do we still have abortion on demand? Why no prayer in public schools? Why is the Christ being taken out of Christmas when Christians number "80%" of the population? Might it be that the "80%" figure is grossly exaggerated ? |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 4:13:28 PM EDT
[#40]
Depends on your dictionary. I wonder though, how does it affect your life if they can marry and how is your life improved by opposing it? Seems like a lot of wasted effort to be against them all the time.
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Posted: 1/24/2006 5:21:22 PM EDT
[#41]
I've heard that as long as there are tests there will be prayer in school . . . sorry, it's a joke . . . |
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Posted: 1/24/2006 5:32:54 PM EDT
[#42]
Tru Dat Brother Brohawk |
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Posted: 1/25/2006 6:00:59 AM EDT
[#43]
There is a large difference between Christian denominations. Some Christian Churches accept women and gay preachers and perform gay marriages. Their outlook on things is a lot different than the stereotypical Evangelical. They are a large percentage of the Christian numbers and are typically a lot more liberal on social views. They also tend to support the "wall of seperation" that Jefferson spoke of in his letter. as a small correction, we still have prayer in schools. Just not school sponsored prayer |
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Posted: 1/25/2006 6:16:51 AM EDT
[#44]
Not real sure what part was old guy's post and what part was someone else, but thought I'd take a stab a tthe questions.
I wonder why so many Christians feel that they are being persecuted? Some of it is because of genuine persecution. When a few schools can require memorization of sections of the Koran because of its important contribution to culture (not really a bad idea), but some teachers have been disciplined for having a Bible on their desk I think that is persecution and a violation of the free exercise clause of the 1st ammendment. Part of it though is that we have raised a nation of cry-babies (whatever their faith) that believe that anytime someone confronts them with hard questions or their own inconcistencies they are persecuted. Why do we still have abortion on demand? Because the Supreme Court chose to legislate from the bench and there has not been a sufficient majority of constructionalists to overturn Roe v. Wade. Whatever your position on abortion, it should be a decision made by the legislative branch NOT the court. Why no prayer in public schools? As someone else said, there is prayer in schools, just not sanctioned prayer. Why is the Christ being taken out of Christmas when Christians number "80%" of the population? Because 80% includes everyone who claims to be a Christian which includes 1) People who think being born in America makes them a Christian 2) People who think that since their parents are Christian they are too 3) People who think that religion is a private matter and not one for public display 4) People who think that Christmas is a pagan holiday anyway and not worth fighting for 5) People who think that Christmas is a merchandizing gimic and not worth fighting for 6) People who think that Christmas is a Christian holiday, but are too busy feeding the poor and comforting the hurting to be bothered with this issue. 7) People who just don't care. Might it be that the "80%" figure is grossly exaggerated ? By my definition of Christian, yeah. But if defined as the number of people who claim to be, that's about right. How we describe ourselves and how others describe us are always going to be different and the subject of some pretty intense feelings. For example, there are people who would call Old Guy a Christian. From what I've read, I don't think he'd take that very well. But, in their minds, anyone who believes in God (no matter how described) is a Christian. |
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Posted: 1/25/2006 6:28:40 AM EDT
[#45]
Let's try to remember that no two people of ANY belief system hold exactly the same beliefs on everything. For instance, some people would label ALL of us in this discussion, "The Religious Right" because 1) we are discussing religion and 2) we own firearms. The first makes us religious and the second makes us "right." That said, I'm certain Old Guy, Dino and I would find very few areas of agreement in our religious beliefs. I'm a preacher and my wife is very active in our congregation. We are part of the same "denomination", same congregation, leadership, same family and even (according to Scripture) one person. That said, if you don't think we have some lively conversations about our beliefs you would be sadly mistaken. It really SUCKS when I say something from the pulpit on Sunday, talk to my wife about it on Monday and have to get up the following Sunday and make a retraction because she was right. Fortunately that doesn't happen too often.
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Posted: 1/25/2006 5:00:35 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
By my definition of Christian, yeah. But if defined as the number of people who claim to be, that's about right. How we describe ourselves and how others describe us are always going to be different and the subject of some pretty intense feelings. Using your definition, what do you feel would be a more realistic percentage? For example, there are people who would call Old Guy a Christian. From what I've read, I don't think he'd take that very well. I have been called names by people on this board, Christian was not one of them. I stand corrected on the school prayer issue, my thanks to you and Dino. |
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Posted: 1/25/2006 5:56:45 PM EDT
[#47]
By my best guestimate (and that's all it is since noone knows what is inside another's heart) I would say 35% of Americans at the most. That's based on some statistics at barna group colored with a speck of cynicism about my fellow man. I don't know about other countries. |
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Posted: 1/26/2006 4:41:29 AM EDT
[#48]
I discussed this with several pastors and they felt the same as you, 30% to 35% was the most quoted figure. One recent study I viewed had Christians at 50.1% of the US population in 2004 and figured a loss of .9% per year there after. Thanks for the link. |
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