12 years of Sunday School and I guess I learned nothing.  I remember a lot of stories of polygamy and concubines.  Weren't these stories after the Ten Commandments?  Wouldn't that be adultery?  Does it say anywhere that you can only have one wife?  Just curious.

Read the section with the wedding vows.....Keeping yourself only unto her........

Quoted: Read the section with the wedding vows.....Keeping yourself only unto her........

There isn't a place with wedding vows anywhere in the bible.  Seriously.

It also does not, anywhere, require monogamy of any male except church elders and deacons (ordained officers).

What he said.  Having only one wife is mandated for only clergy and such.

But you have to understand, having more than one wife is its own punishment...

Quoted: What he said.  Having only one wife is mandated for only clergy and such. But you have to understand, having more than one wife is its own punishment...

Yeah, two mothers-in-law, since you can't marry sisters.

The Timothy and Titus passages, by the way, also specifically endorse a married clergy.  Required celbacy is anti-biblical; the langage would seem to properly require a wife, but at the very least allows it.

Thanks guys.  I know that it is a modern tradition in most places in the world to be monogamous, but I didn't remember reading anywhere that you could only have one wife.  

What about the commandment not to commit adultery??  I guess it depends on the Bible's definition of adultery 'is'.

The part in Genesis where Abraham ditched Sarah because he doubted God would let her bear a child.  Also the part where David cheats with Beersheba the wife of one of his warriors.

Quoted: Thanks guys.  I know that it is a modern tradition in most places in the world to be monogamous, but I didn't remember reading anywhere that you could only have one wife.   What about the commandment not to commit adultery??  I guess it depends on the Bible's definition of adultery 'is'.

Adultery is defined as a man having sex with another man's wife.  
Fornication is a different crime entirely.

Note David was accused of having committed adultery when he took Bathsheba (married), but not when he took Abigail (after Nabal died).  David had been married to Michal by this time.

Quoted: The part in Genesis where Abraham ditched Sarah because he doubted God would let her bear a child.  Also the part where David cheats with Beersheba the wife of one of his warriors.

Beersheba is a town in the Negev (south), not a person.
Bathseba was married, so David committed adultery.  Note that after Uriah died, David was allowed to marryher, even though he already had lots of wives?

Abraham was judged for doubting God's promise and seeking to take other measures, not because he took another wife.

Quoted: Thanks guys.  I know that it is a modern tradition in most places in the world to be monogamous, but I didn't remember reading anywhere that you could only have one wife.   What about the commandment not to commit adultery??  I guess it depends on the Bible's definition of adultery 'is'.

Catholics describe adultery as lying with another who is not your spouse...even if you are divorced (the whole "What God has joined, let no man put asunder..." part of the marital contract.) In that vein, should you marry a person who turns into a monster, and divorce, you commit adultery every time you have sex afterwards. Now, should you grease the Catholic wheels and pay for an anullment, all is good and you can, uh <notices the thread poster's avatar> hump like a bunny sin-free!

Quoted: Fornication is a different crime entirely.

Any idea where it talks about this?

It's right in the wife's Bible.

God, being all powerful and wise,

KNOWS that man can only handle one wife.

now love slaves are another matter, and are ok if you are king David.

Quoted: Catholics describe adultery as lying with another who is not your spouse...even if you are divorced (the whole "What God has joined, let no man put asunder..." part of the marital contract.) In that vein, should you marry a person who turns into a monster, and divorce, you commit adultery every time you have sex afterwards. Now, should you grease the Catholic wheels and pay for an anullment, all is good and you can, uh <notices the thread poster's avatar> hump like a bunny sin-free!

What about pre-marital sex between two unmarried people?  Any Bible references? (I have The New King James Version)  

Quoted: Quoted: Fornication is a different crime entirely. Any idea where it talks about this?

Exodus 22

22:16  And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.
22:17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.

The penalty for screwing around is marriage.

Quoted: God, being all powerful and wise, KNOWS that man can only handle one wife.

You're going to need a cite in this thread.  Book, Chapter, and Verse.

Catch-and-Release isn't polygamy, is it?

Quoted: Catch-and-Release isn't polygamy, is it?

Nope, serial fornication.
It can also get you beat or dead at the hands of old-fashioned fathers and brothers.

For the one said about Genesis 2:24:

"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh"

You can even look at something like Paul's letter to the people of Corinth in the 1 Corinthians 7:2

For fear of fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband


The problem is, that the Bible is often used as a "I told you so's" and taking one sentance out of many and ignoring the meaning of, and why the original autographs were written. Sure the Bible can be used to prove a point, but to do so, your agenda's must be removed and the whole text must be read. Many of the letters written were delivered and were meant to be read aloud to the people who they were directed to, not only one sentance here and there to suit the needs.

Quoted: Quoted: Catholics describe adultery as lying with another who is not your spouse...even if you are divorced (the whole "What God has joined, let no man put asunder..." part of the marital contract.) In that vein, should you marry a person who turns into a monster, and divorce, you commit adultery every time you have sex afterwards. Now, should you grease the Catholic wheels and pay for an anullment, all is good and you can, uh <notices the thread poster's avatar> hump like a bunny sin-free! What about pre-marital sex between two unmarried people?  Any Bible references? (I have The New King James Version)

No idea...I was raised Catholic...PMS (just realized that ackronym is DAMNED funny) did not exist as far as I was concerned.


Seriously, I dunno.

Quoted: This needs to be in the Religion forum.  Moved.

We have a religion forum?

This is exactly what happened when I asked where the AR pistol thread went in the AR general section.  Then I found out we had an AR pistol forum.

The Hebrew Bible condones more than one wife and in no way forbids it. It contains many restrictions on the practice though.  

These are the ways you aquire a wife, Through sex, purchase, contract or death. Each of those methods have restrictions on them as well.


Now many will disagree with this, but in the Jewish way of looking at these Jewish texts, A non Jew does not need to marry, however he/she may if they wish. With the exception of some of the sexual laws, such as incest, Non Jews are, for the most part,  free to engage in intorcourse as they see fit.


I dont want to debate it or explain it, thats just how we see it.

Quoted: Quoted: What he said.  Having only one wife is mandated for only clergy and such. But you have to understand, having more than one wife is its own punishment... Yeah, two mothers-in-law, since you can't marry sisters. The Timothy and Titus passages, by the way, also specifically endorse a married clergy.  Required celbacy is anti-biblical; the langage would seem to properly require a wife, but at the very least allows it.

I am not so sure about the Timothy and Titus passage, but in my Church, the priests are "married" to the Church, rather than a family of their own.  The ordination to the Church is so that the serve God and all families in the Church, rather than their own.  We call them father because of this.  Frankly, I can't see a priest, who is truely dedicated to his job, having any time for a family of his own.  

Quoted: I am not so sure about the Timothy and Titus passage, but in my Church, the priests are "married" to the Church, rather than a family of their own.  The ordination to the Church is so that the serve God and all families in the Church, rather than their own.  We call them father because of this.  Frankly, I can't see a priest, who is truely dedicated to his job, having any time for a family of his own.

Well, that's not what the book says.
Sorry.

Larry

Well, that's not what the book says. Sorry. Larry

+1, there is no reason not to be Married. Certain denominations make it a rule in order to lead worship for God as THEY deem fit, God's word does not dictate as such.

The book of Matt speaks of sinning even if you look at another woman with lust... married to, you are supposed to fornicate and make babies. If you already have another wife....That is conflict there.

Quoted: ...there is no reason not to be Married...

I can't think of a good reason to be married.

1Ti 3:12  Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

Tit 1:5  For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
Tit 1:6  If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

One wife good.

Shok

No wives better.


And more economical

Quoted: Quoted: Thanks guys.  I know that it is a modern tradition in most places in the world to be monogamous, but I didn't remember reading anywhere that you could only have one wife.   What about the commandment not to commit adultery??  I guess it depends on the Bible's definition of adultery 'is'. Catholics describe adultery as lying with another who is not your spouse...even if you are divorced (the whole "What God has joined, let no man put asunder..." part of the marital contract.) In that vein, should you marry a person who turns into a monster, and divorce, you commit adultery every time you have sex afterwards. Now, should you grease the Catholic wheels and pay for an anullment, all is good and you can, uh <notices the thread poster's avatar> hump like a bunny sin-free!

And you can have all that for the low, low price of $500 per person!!

1 Timothy chapter 3 verse 2 specifically states that a Bishop must be the husband of one wife.  I don't know about the rest of the church members, but it's specific about Bishops.

Quoted: But you have to understand, having more than one wife is its own punishment...

Having more than one wife will definitely make you sleep with a Bible!

I know most of you don't believe in The Book of Mormon, but here's some "insight" that it provides on the topic.  Not asking you to take it as truth whatsoever... just contributing to the topic at hand.  Thought you'd be interested in what it had to say on the topic.
--------------

27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women.  And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

(Book of Mormon | Jacob 2:27 - 30)

One thing people forget is that just because something was done in the OT does NOT mean it was proper to do so.

Actually, every case of polygamy in the OT resulted in trouble for the man.

How anyone could justify polygamy after reading the Bible is beyond me.

Quoted: No wives better.

The amazing thing is that you're exactly right - it IS, in an absolute sense, better not to be married, according to the Bible.

HOWEVER, this is predicated on the assumption that you are capable of abstaining from lust, fornication, and all of that other unpleasantness.

Most of us don't fit that description.


Of course, you're certainly entitled to disagree on the latter.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Thanks guys.  I know that it is a modern tradition in most places in the world to be monogamous, but I didn't remember reading anywhere that you could only have one wife.   What about the commandment not to commit adultery??  I guess it depends on the Bible's definition of adultery 'is'. Catholics describe adultery as lying with another who is not your spouse...even if you are divorced (the whole "What God has joined, let no man put asunder..." part of the marital contract.) In that vein, should you marry a person who turns into a monster, and divorce, you commit adultery every time you have sex afterwards. Now, should you grease the Catholic wheels and pay for an anullment, all is good and you can, uh <notices the thread poster's avatar> hump like a bunny sin-free! And you can have all that for the low, low price of $500 per person!!

ETA: I do believe (with that same low price) that you not only get your single-dom back, BUT as an added bonus, children from the anulled marriage are also considered "bastards." (Because in effect, the marriage never took place)
Call now..operators are standing by!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This needs to be in the Religion forum.  Moved.   We have a religion forum? This is exactly what happened when I asked where the AR pistol thread went in the AR general section.  Then I found out we had an AR pistol forum. You didn't get the memos??  There was about a thousand of them.   Hopefully your answer will come soon here--before the authorities catch up with you. Good luck!

So says the only man on a sinking ship as he dives overbeard, taking with him the only bucket!


Love you Beekeep...Mean it!

Quoted: Quoted: Catholics describe adultery as lying with another who is not your spouse...even if you are divorced (the whole "What God has joined, let no man put asunder..." part of the marital contract.) In that vein, should you marry a person who turns into a monster, and divorce, you commit adultery every time you have sex afterwards. Now, should you grease the Catholic wheels and pay for an anullment, all is good and you can, uh <notices the thread poster's avatar> hump like a bunny sin-free! What about pre-marital sex between two unmarried people?  Any Bible references? (I have The New King James Version)

There are a bunch in the New Testament, not so much in the Old.  Remember that in the Old Testament people married real young, most illicit sex would therefore be "Adultery."  In the New Testament, they have cities and prostitutes and thus fornication gets its share of condemnation as well.  

Matthew 15:19 - For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Mark 7:21 - For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

Acts 15:20 - But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Acts 15:29 - That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Acts 21:25 - As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

Romans 1:29 - Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Catholics describe adultery as lying with another who is not your spouse...even if you are divorced (the whole "What God has joined, let no man put asunder..." part of the marital contract.) In that vein, should you marry a person who turns into a monster, and divorce, you commit adultery every time you have sex afterwards. Now, should you grease the Catholic wheels and pay for an anullment, all is good and you can, uh <notices the thread poster's avatar> hump like a bunny sin-free! What about pre-marital sex between two unmarried people?  Any Bible references? (I have The New King James Version)   There are a bunch in the New Testament, not so much in the Old.  Remember that in the Old Testament people married real young, most illicit sex would therefore be "Adultery."  In the New Testament, they have cities and prostitutes and thus fornication gets its share of condemnation as well.   Matthew 15:19 - For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: Mark 7:21 - For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Acts 15:20 - But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. Acts 15:29 - That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. Acts 21:25 - As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. Romans 1:29 - Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

__________________________

The Hebrew Bible was based upon common understanding of the role of women and men of those times.  Unfortunately, women were then, as is far too common today, thought of as commerce.  Just as today, one may marry well, or not; one may also take liberties without ramification.

As commerce went, a man who took (literally) a woman he would not marry, and was found out, was required to pay the father of the woman for damages.  

In these times, however, there were no laws or prohibitions from a man having many wives.  That is the reason cited by many LDS that they are entitled to the same biblical rights.

As rabbinical study of the issue, cited in the Babylonian Talmud, reviewed these practices, they were found to be not the natural state of man...that he should be betrothed to only one wife.

After all, a poor Jew could really afford to maintain one wife...right?

Quoted: __________________________ The Hebrew Bible was based upon common understanding of the role of women and men of those times.  Unfortunately, women were then, as is far too common today, thought of as commerce.  Just as today, one may marry well, or not; one may also take liberties without ramification. As commerce went, a man who took (literally) a woman he would not marry, and was found out, was required to pay the father of the woman for damages.   In these times, however, there were no laws or prohibitions from a man having many wives.  That is the reason cited by many LDS that they are entitled to the same biblical rights. As rabbinical study of the issue, cited in the Babylonian Talmud, reviewed these practices, they were found to be not the natural state of man...that he should be betrothed to only one wife. After all, a poor Jew could really afford to maintain one wife...right?

Woah!  Nothing personal, but I feel an obligation to correct a common misconception there, Scuba_ed.

As MormonComputerZ aptly noted, LDS scripture and doctrine is that a man only practices plural marriage when he is called upon to do so by the Lord through the Church leaders.

"27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
...
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things."

(Book of Mormon | Jacob 2:27 & 30)

Short summary:  Unless the Lord commands otherwise, we are to be monogomous.

Any member of the LDS Church who claims that he is entitled to having more than one wife is pushing for excommunication.  No Latter-Day Saint has been called to live in plural marriage since the 1880's.  

Unfortunately there have been predatory groups who call themselves "mormons" and use polygamy as a smokescreen while they treat women and children like property.

Quoted: Quoted: __________________________ The Hebrew Bible was based upon common understanding of the role of women and men of those times.  Unfortunately, women were then, as is far too common today, thought of as commerce.  Just as today, one may marry well, or not; one may also take liberties without ramification. As commerce went, a man who took (literally) a woman he would not marry, and was found out, was required to pay the father of the woman for damages.   In these times, however, there were no laws or prohibitions from a man having many wives.  That is the reason cited by many LDS that they are entitled to the same biblical rights. As rabbinical study of the issue, cited in the Babylonian Talmud, reviewed these practices, they were found to be not the natural state of man...that he should be betrothed to only one wife. After all, a poor Jew could really afford to maintain one wife...right? Woah!  Nothing personal, but I feel an obligation to correct a common misconception there, Scuba_ed. As MormonComputerZ aptly noted, LDS scripture and doctrine is that a man only practices plural marriage when he is called upon to do so by the Lord through the Church leaders. "27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none; ... 30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things." (Book of Mormon | Jacob 2:27 & 30) Short summary:  Unless the Lord commands otherwise, we are to be monogomous. Any member of the LDS Church who claims that he is entitled to having more than one wife is pushing for excommunication.  No Latter-Day Saint has been called to live in plural marriage since the 1880's.   Unfortunately there have been predatory groups who call themselves "mormons" and use polygamy as a smokescreen while they treat women and children like property.

_____________________

Ooops!  Sorry--and thanks for correcting me!

B'Shalom,

Ed

Quoted: Quoted: __________________________ The Hebrew Bible was based upon common understanding of the role of women and men of those times.  Unfortunately, women were then, as is far too common today, thought of as commerce.  Just as today, one may marry well, or not; one may also take liberties without ramification. As commerce went, a man who took (literally) a woman he would not marry, and was found out, was required to pay the father of the woman for damages.   In these times, however, there were no laws or prohibitions from a man having many wives.  That is the reason cited by many LDS that they are entitled to the same biblical rights. As rabbinical study of the issue, cited in the Babylonian Talmud, reviewed these practices, they were found to be not the natural state of man...that he should be betrothed to only one wife. After all, a poor Jew could really afford to maintain one wife...right? Woah!  Nothing personal, but I feel an obligation to correct a common misconception there, Scuba_ed. As MormonComputerZ aptly noted, LDS scripture and doctrine is that a man only practices plural marriage when he is called upon to do so by the Lord through the Church leaders. "27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none; ... 30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things." (Book of Mormon | Jacob 2:27 & 30) Short summary:  Unless the Lord commands otherwise, we are to be monogomous. Any member of the LDS Church who claims that he is entitled to having more than one wife is pushing for excommunication.  No Latter-Day Saint has been called to live in plural marriage since the 1880's.   Unfortunately there have been predatory groups who call themselves "mormons" and use polygamy as a smokescreen while they treat women and children like property.

Thanks for posting that explanation, I always though the text said it was ok, but a later decision by the Church overrode that.  

Quoted: _____________________ Ooops!  Sorry--and thanks for correcting me! B'Shalom, Ed

Don't worry Ed.  I knew it was an innocent mistake.  Because the LDS Church doesn't talk about it much I know that there are members of that church that get confused too.

Dino,
Here is a brief description from Mormon.org
---------------------------------------------
Question:
What is the Church’s position on polygamy?

Answer:
In 1998, President Gordon B. Hinckley made the following statement about the Church's position on plural marriage:
"This Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church. . . . If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church."

At various times, the Lord has commanded His people to practice plural marriage. For example, He gave this command to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and Solomon (Doctrine and Covenants 132:1).

In this dispensation, the Lord commanded some of the early Saints to practice plural marriage. The Prophet Joseph Smith and those closest to him, including Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball, were challenged by this command, but they obeyed it. Church leaders regulated the practice. Those entering into it had to be authorized to do so, and the marriages had to be performed through the sealing power of the priesthood. In 1890, President Wilford Woodruff received a revelation that the leaders of the Church should cease teaching the practice of plural marriage (Official Declaration 1).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Naturally, this has been a controversial topic within the LDS Church and out.  It was a difficult doctrine and practice for Joseph Smith himself.  In fact, it was a very sore trial for Joseph and his wife Emma.  So much so that the Lord gave revelation touching the subject of Emma's struggles with it D&C 132, pay particular attention to verses 51-66.

However, in 1890 the Lord commanded the practice to stop.  Wilford Woodruff explains these reasons here.

Quoted: Quoted: _____________________ Ooops!  Sorry--and thanks for correcting me! B'Shalom, Ed Don't worry Ed.  I knew it was an innocent mistake.  Because the LDS Church doesn't talk about it much I know that there are members of that church that get confused too. Dino, Here is a brief description from Mormon.org --------------------------------------------- Question: What is the Church’s position on polygamy? Answer: In 1998, President Gordon B. Hinckley made the following statement about the Church's position on plural marriage: "This Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church. . . . If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church." At various times, the Lord has commanded His people to practice plural marriage. For example, He gave this command to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and Solomon (Doctrine and Covenants 132:1). In this dispensation, the Lord commanded some of the early Saints to practice plural marriage. The Prophet Joseph Smith and those closest to him, including Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball, were challenged by this command, but they obeyed it. Church leaders regulated the practice. Those entering into it had to be authorized to do so, and the marriages had to be performed through the sealing power of the priesthood. In 1890, President Wilford Woodruff received a revelation that the leaders of the Church should cease teaching the practice of plural marriage (Official Declaration 1). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Naturally, this has been a controversial topic within the LDS Church and out.  It was a difficult doctrine and practice for Joseph Smith himself.  In fact, it was a very sore trial for Joseph and his wife Emma.  So much so that the Lord gave revelation touching the subject of Emma's struggles with it D&C 132, pay particular attention to verses 51-66. However, in 1890 the Lord commanded the practice to stop.  Wilford Woodruff explains these reasons here.

_______________________________

Thanks Shane...also for the explanation and references!

Ed

The penalty for screwing around is marriage.

Talk about fire and brimstone!z

It doesn't have to be said in the bible. It's the LAW! Silly...