User Panel
Posted: 9/1/2017 10:01:22 AM EDT
ETA: I’ve joined, I’m in RCIA, my decisions made please refrain from catholic bashing.
But this current pope has me wondering on the direction of the Church. I went to Catholic schools my whole life despite not being Catholic, so I already have a pretty good education in the Catholic beliefs and they've always made way more sense to me historically and spiritually. Recently I've started reading into the changes made at Vatican II, and those are also a point of contention for me about joining. If I were to take the plunge I feel like I'd fall more in line with the "traditional" Catholics, pre Vatican II, and basically my concern is how true to the original the current Church is. So what advice can you current members of the Church give me? Note: If you are not a Catholic, please refrain trying to talk me out of this and telling me the Catholics are wrong. I'm not interested in your opinion on the matter at this point and I don't want this to devolve into a pissing match between protestants and Catholics like every other thread seems to. Thanks. |
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I was raised Catholic, but I never really went with a lot of what they taught because one thing they taught early on was about false idols and false prophets. I spend my time believing in God, and less time believing in what man says about God.
I would never try to steer you away from it. I died a couple years ago for 20-30 minutes or so, and what I experienced was pretty much like what the church teaches except it was far more real, and more than can be described or imagined...the peace, tranquility, beauty ect. From that experience I figured I must have done something right in life. I do feel guilty for coming back though. The doctors try saying they brought me back but I remember it differently. I said "I have to go help those people", and the man that I was with said "I understand". Then I instantly woke up back here in agonizing pain asking where he is, where is the man I was talking to. I hope this is a second chance, and not my biggest fuck up. I'll pray for though man. |
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The Church has had good Popes, awful Popes, holy Popes, dissolute Popes and average Popes, yet the Church founded by Jesus endures.
As a friend once noted "More than a form of religious belief and practice, Catholicism represents not only a worldview, but possibly the most complete worldview human history has ever produced." |
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Not a Catholic but I sincerely wish you the best in your decision and journey.
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I have been a traditional Catholic for the past 27 years. I do not believe we have had a valid pope since Pius XII. I attend the traditional Latin Mass. I would be happy to try and answer your questions. I can also put you in touch with a priest.
To answer your question, the Novus Ordo(Francis') church is not Catholic. They believe in ecumenism, which was condemned by the Catholic Church. Their orders are not valid and neither is their Mass. |
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I have been a traditional Catholic for the past 27 years. I do not believe we have had a valid pope since Pius XII. I attend the traditional Latin Mass. I would be happy to try and answer your questions. I can also put you in touch with a priest. To answer your question, the Novus Ordo(Francis') church is not Catholic. They believe in ecumenism, which was condemned by the Catholic Church. Their orders are not valid and neither is their Mass. View Quote |
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The Church has had good Popes, awful Popes, holy Popes, dissolute Popes and average Popes, yet the Church founded by Jesus endures. As a friend once noted "More than a form of religious belief and practice, Catholicism represents not only a worldview, but possibly the most complete worldview human history has ever produced." View Quote |
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So you're not of the opinion that Vatican ii contradicts a lot of prior teachings? View Quote So many churches seem to be changing doctrine to draw numbers. |
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As far as I know I'm still a Catholic. Confirmed and haven't gotten an excommunication letter yet. That said, I walked away while in my teens. The Church did not match my beliefs and I lost my faith.
I'd suggest finding a church you agree with instead of trying to excuse / accept one that you dont agree with. What policies of the new pope bother you? Maybe if you described your beliefs and asked the forum to point you at a church that matched them you'd be better off than trying to find a reason to become a Catholic. |
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As far as I know I'm still a Catholic. Confirmed and haven't gotten an excommunication letter yet. That said, I walked away while in my teens. The Church did not match my beliefs and I lost my faith. I'd suggest finding a church you agree with instead of trying to excuse / accept one that you dont agree with. What policies of the new pope bother you? Maybe if you described your beliefs and asked the forum to point you at a church that matched them you'd be better off than trying to find a reason to become a Catholic. View Quote |
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Watch the Borgias... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Borgias_(2011_TV_series)
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I attend a CMRI church. Personally, I would choose a church associated with the CMRI, Bishop Sanborn, Bishop Dolan or another independent sede priest. The SSPX is too close to the Novus Ordo. The SSPV and some others are too exclusionary.
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CMRI Chapel in Kentucky
St. Vincent Ferrer Mission Fr. Michael Oswalt Sunday evening Mass once a month Call (502) 545-1730 for information. Bishop Dolan is in West Chester, Ohio(North of Cinci) |
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CMRI Chapel in Kentucky St. Vincent Ferrer Mission Fr. Michael Oswalt Sunday evening Mass once a month Call (502) 545-1730 for information. Bishop Dolan is in West Chester, Ohio(North of Cinci) View Quote Eta: just saw your other post |
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Cradle Catholic here. Would not change it for the world!
My wife is not Catholic but when we can get some time in the evenings she wants to start RCIA. Kinda hard with 2 kids under 19 months. Best to you and may God guide you through the journey! |
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I have been a traditional Catholic for the past 27 years. I do not believe we have had a valid pope since Pius XII. I attend the traditional Latin Mass. I would be happy to try and answer your questions. I can also put you in touch with a priest. To answer your question, the Novus Ordo(Francis') church is not Catholic. They believe in ecumenism, which was condemned by the Catholic Church. Their orders are not valid and neither is their Mass. View Quote |
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The church is not the Pope. The Church is much better with a Pope, however it does not cease to exist if the seat is vacant. St. Robert Bellermine among others have written on the subject.
I think God has withrawn much of his Grace from the world. The Gospel has been preached to all nations and the world has rejected God and His Gospel. We deserve worse that what we are living through. |
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I have found that the society of saint pious does a mass about 10 minutes from where I live. Eta: just saw your other post View Quote Check them out and make your own decision. I personally cannot reconcile the faith to their position. I will message you the name and phone number of my priest. He is much more qualified to discuss this with you. I will be happy to answer any questions, but remember my advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. hahaha. |
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The church is not the Pope. The Church is much better with a Pope, however it does not cease to exist if the seat is vacant. St. Robert Bellermine among others have written on the subject. I think God has withrawn much of his Grace from the world. The Gospel has been preached to all nations and the world has rejected God and His Gospel. We deserve worse that what we are living through. View Quote I also agree that we deserve worse, but I don't think that what we're living through is bad at all. Maybe my perspective is skewed as an immigrant, but I love my life. I don't know that living has ever been better in history. |
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The difference is that the Church, or a Church claiming the Catholic name, has never taught heresy. Vatican 2 taught heresies that had been condemned by the magisterium of he Church. Since the magisterium is infalliable, a teaching contrary to it must be heretical. Since the Catholic Church can not lead souls to hell, a Church that does not hold to Catholic dogma cannot be Catholic.
Thanks for the compliment, but I am only Catholic due to my mom, and God's grace of course. Being a Trad has its difficulties, but trying to live a good spiritual life is much more difficult. I am not very good at that part. Quoted:
We agree that the Church is not the pope. I respect your traditionalism and the strength of your faith. Your faith is certainly stronger than mine. I mean it has to be in order to break away. I just don't understand how, in essence, this schism is any different from others in history. You don't like [insert reason], so you break away. I also agree that we deserve worse, but I don't think that what we're living through is bad at all. Maybe my perspective is skewed as an immigrant, but I love my life. I don't know that living has ever been better in history. View Quote |
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Cradle Catholic here. I spent K-12 attending a non-denominational Christian school. I had teachers that were Evangelical, Nazerine, Calvinist, Lutheran, Catholic, Methodist, Baptist and non-denominational. Many of these teachers where also church pastors. I also spent time attending youth group and other church activities with protestant friends. In the end, it made me a more committed Catholic. Been there, seen it, done it.
What kept me Catholic is that I saw a lot of different people and denominations try to invent whatever Jesus worked best for them (and that's not to say that Catholic parishes are immune to this). The Catholic church as a whole doesn't rely on the charisma of one parish or person, or the writings of a single founder. The focus is on staying true to the body of Christ. The fact that I can attend Mass in any country in any language and take part in the celebration of Mass is incredible. I've attended Catholic churches that I didn't like and met priests I felt hurt the Church. I've struggled with doctrines and popes, but the foundation remains the same. It's a truly universal Church. |
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I hope you find what you are looking for.
I'd like to ask you to ponder these questions. You don't need to respond to me. The answers are between you and God. Are you born again? Do you know Jesus? Do you follow Him? Do you love Him? God bless. |
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As far as I know I'm still a Catholic. Confirmed and haven't gotten an excommunication letter yet. That said, I walked away while in my teens. The Church did not match my beliefs and I lost my faith. I'd suggest finding a church you agree with instead of trying to excuse / accept one that you dont agree with. What policies of the new pope bother you? Maybe if you described your beliefs and asked the forum to point you at a church that matched them you'd be better off than trying to find a reason to become a Catholic. View Quote My folks made me go to mass and catechism until I got confirmed, then the choice was mine. Years of getting smacked by nuns played a big role in my decision, along with being pretty much told that it's our way or no way. So I bailed. |
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If you want to understand why the Vatican 2 Church is not Catholic, read the encyclical Pascendi. It was written by Pope St. Pius Xth, today is his feast day.
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.I greatly admire Pope St. Pius X-- a great man, Bishop, Pope, and Saint. He never minced words--spoke clearly and to the point. I like that! https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Pope_Pius_X_%28Retouched%29.jpg View Quote Our priest went on to say that the Vatican II popes writings a re ambiguous. Francis' writing on whether a divorced and remarried person can receive communion is an example. No one knows what he means. The answer is simple, either yes or no. |
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Im not catholic, but you seem pretty set on going that way.
My only advice is that you're the one that chooses your own path. Personally I wouldnt Take a spiritual path where I disagreed with anything on that path. I won't live my life by the constraints of dogma, and when you involve The politics of a pope in the whole mess, well that's another thing. My God is my God. I don't need the politics of man to muddy my faith in him. God knows me, and man does not. |
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So you're not of the opinion that Vatican ii contradicts a lot of prior teachings? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The Church has had good Popes, awful Popes, holy Popes, dissolute Popes and average Popes, yet the Church founded by Jesus endures. As a friend once noted "More than a form of religious belief and practice, Catholicism represents not only a worldview, but possibly the most complete worldview human history has ever produced." Also, a lot of the problems of Vatican II lie not with the documents themselves but with the implementation. Also, there's two FSSP parishes in the Diocese of Lexington, although I don't know how far they are from you. There's also others:http://www.ecclesiadei.org/masses.cfm#Kentucky I just went on a silent retreat with an FSSP priest, quite good. |
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I may be late to the party, but I thought this video might help you. I had fallen away from the church, and then I met my wife. She has led me back, and I have really begun to find myself in the church. The priest in this video is from my diocese, and his brother is also a priest. I hope you will find your way back as I did. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqATi2zbaBw
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Thank you all for your replies. I think I'll be reaching out to begin RCIA classes. I also contacted my former theology teacher from my Catholic high school to get his opinion, he's pretty much put my concerns to rest along with your all's help.
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Thank you all for your replies. I think I'll be reaching out to begin RCIA classes. I also contacted my former theology teacher from my Catholic high school to get his opinion, he's pretty much put my concerns to rest along with your all's help. View Quote My current parish takes it pretty seriously, but we're Diocese of Arlington. |
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Protip: 90% of RCIA classes appear to be worthless for actually learning stuff. A lot of my friends are converts who came to the RCC from their own reading, research, and all that. They found RCIA incredibly lacking in many cases, and one switched parishes over it to get a better class. Some were just "let's share our feelings and not talk about theology/dogma/doctrines" and others just "blah" where my friends obviously knew more Catholic theology than the person teaching it. Some had the person leading it teaching outright heresies. So, good times. My current parish takes it pretty seriously, but we're Diocese of Arlington. View Quote If the RCIA classes aren't particularly good it won't bother me much. It's just a stepping stone to getting to become a full member. |
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Like I've said before, I've got 12 years of Catholic schooling under my belt, I've got a pretty thorough understanding of the teachings of the Catholic church. Better even, I'd say than a lot of my friends who actually are Catholic. If the RCIA classes aren't particularly good it won't bother me much. It's just a stepping stone to getting to become a full member. View Quote I know of two Protestants, one a minister, who were directly received into the Church. The Priest who received them stated "they should be both be teaching in a seminary. Smart and informed doesn't begin to describe it." |
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Depending upon your background and knowledge, there isn't a canonical requirement to receive RCIA prior to being received into the Catholic Church, IIRC. I know of two Protestants, one a minister, who were directly received into the Church. The Priest who received them stated "they should be both be teaching in a seminary. Smart and informed doesn't begin to describe it." View Quote |
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Raised Catholic wife raise Southern Baptist. We raised our kids in the Methodist church. Recently we have discovered how left most churches become. They believe in open borders, uncontrolled immigration, and gay marriages. Do not believe me just check on the Council of World Churches. We have recently joined an Independent Baptist Church that teaches what the bible says about marriage. They also believe that we are a nation of laws in reference to immigration.
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This current pope definitely has Commie sympathies, but a lot of what he rails against is fundamentally the same things John Paul railed against. Calling out the moral hypocrisy of people who assert moral superiority tends to ruffle their feathers.
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Depending upon your background and knowledge, there isn't a canonical requirement to receive RCIA prior to being received into the Catholic Church, IIRC. I know of two Protestants, one a minister, who were directly received into the Church. The Priest who received them stated "they should be both be teaching in a seminary. Smart and informed doesn't begin to describe it." View Quote |
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This current pope definitely has Commie sympathies, but a lot of what he rails against is fundamentally the same things John Paul railed against. Calling out the moral hypocrisy of people who assert moral superiority tends to ruffle their feathers. View Quote |
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This is indicative of what is wrong with the Novus Ordo. How on earth could a Protestant minister not require education regarding Catholicism? He has been preaching heresy. It is absurd to think that he understands Catholic theology. View Quote |
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This is indicative of what is wrong with the Novus Ordo. How on earth could a Protestant minister not require education regarding Catholicism? He has been preaching heresy. It is absurd to think that he understands Catholic theology. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Depending upon your background and knowledge, there isn't a canonical requirement to receive RCIA prior to being received into the Catholic Church, IIRC. I know of two Protestants, one a minister, who were directly received into the Church. The Priest who received them stated "they should be both be teaching in a seminary. Smart and informed doesn't begin to describe it." Especially when I hear stories from them about having to confront heresies in the RCIA classes they attended. Some of 'em are very good at saying the liturgy of the hours, and I said the rosary maybe once with my parents as a kid. |
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Depending upon your background and knowledge, there isn't a canonical requirement to receive RCIA prior to being received into the Catholic Church, IIRC. I know of two Protestants, one a minister, who were directly received into the Church. The Priest who received them stated "they should be both be teaching in a seminary. Smart and informed doesn't begin to describe it." View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Like I've said before, I've got 12 years of Catholic schooling under my belt, I've got a pretty thorough understanding of the teachings of the Catholic church. Better even, I'd say than a lot of my friends who actually are Catholic. If the RCIA classes aren't particularly good it won't bother me much. It's just a stepping stone to getting to become a full member. I know of two Protestants, one a minister, who were directly received into the Church. The Priest who received them stated "they should be both be teaching in a seminary. Smart and informed doesn't begin to describe it." |
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Raised Catholic wife raise Southern Baptist. We raised our kids in the Methodist church. Recently we have discovered how left most churches become. They believe in open borders, uncontrolled immigration, and gay marriages. Do not believe me just check on the Council of World Churches. We have recently joined an Independent Baptist Church that teaches what the bible says about marriage. They also believe that we are a nation of laws in reference to immigration. View Quote |
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OP,
I would be weary of joining groups that are either explicitly or possibly schismatic. CMRI is explicit in their schism, SSPX is still up for debate depending on who you talk to but still close enough to schism that I am willing to wait it out. I would give a FPNI stamp to the post that mentioned the Primacy of Peter, if it were the FP. You won't find much difference in perspectives on things like church history, liturgical history, and the like. It's really about the validity of the occupants of the chair, and the state of the church. Remember the decline of the church did not begin with Vatican II, rather, it was accelerated by it... but not until the 70's. |
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Good luck on your RCIA.
I am a cradle Catholic. Went to Catholic school, but really did not learn my Faith there. Vatican II is all I have known. But, I learned my Faith from my Father (taught by Jesuits until grad school) and my Mother. Also, from A TON of reading and adversity in my life looking for answers. My advice is to try to filter out the static surrounding the Church. Go to the sources and the teachings. The Catachism is awesome. There are many contemporary theologians that are converts, Dr Scott Hahn, Steve Ray, Tim Staples. They have some great information. Listen to podcasts. Some of my favorites are "Pints with Aquinas", "Catholic Answers" and the many lectures from Lighthouse media (Catholic publishing company) There is a bunch of misunderstood info out there. Many Catholics do not properly understand their Faith. God Bless and I will pray for you " and even the Gates of hell shall not prevail against it".... no matter how many schisms. |
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