In church we are discussing 5 of the 7 things Christ said on the cross. For some reason our pastor has chosen to leave out the title of this thread and his words to his Mother. I love this time of year and really enjoy digging into the forgiveness Christ has for those who were in the process of killing him. "Forgive them, for they know not what they do" is truly words we should all ascribe to live by. I wanted as a side lesson to learn more about the 2 phrases we, as a church, are not going to be discussing. Christ's utterance in the 9th hour confuses me. On its face it appears Jesus doubts his father and his fathers plan for him. Is this not a sin? How could it be? Is this the enemy creeping in to seperate Jesus from The Father.



Admitedly, I am early in my walk after 30 years trying to win the battle myself, so I would appreciate learning about this contradiction.

I was told/taught it was the moment God became man in order to be killed.



 

What doctrine teaches that?

Edited.  IM sent. ~ medicmandan

Why did Jesus cry out, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?"
More at link.

I think some of the other text in and around that verse are important as well.  I'm not a scholar in the Hebrew language, but from what I've heard in past discussions about this text, it may have had more significant meaning to those witnessing the crucifixion than the English translation we have today.  As another poster mentioned, there is a significant amount of Psalm 22 that He is quoting that also describes the scene a that moment.

As you know, many of those that sought to crucify him were very learned scholars of the Old Testament.  Thy would have immediately recognized this as a reference to that text, and in that way, may have realized that Jesus was really the Son of God, and not just another Prophet that would come and go.

The very act of calling out to His Father in His greatest hour of need using words from holy writings was not only an evidence of faith but also a profound teaching opportunity. Though Psalm 22 begins with a question, it is an expression of profound trust that God does not forsake:

“Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

“They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded” (verses 4–5).

Using the psalmist’s experiences as a foreshadowing of the Savior’s suffering, the psalm foretells the mocking (verses 7–8), the false trial and coming torture (verses 11–13), His pain and suffering (verse 14), His thirst (verse 15), the wounding of His hands and feet (verse 16), and the casting of lots and parting of His garments (verse 18).

Though the Savior quoted only the first verse, the remainder of the psalm stands as another testimony that He is the promised Messiah, that His suffering fulfilled prophecy, and that He trusted in His Father completely.

Article Link

Tag for the references y'all have

What's interesting is that both Matthew and Mark were writing in the most detailed language of all time (Greek) and still made a point to transliterate the Aramaic.

Surprisingly, today there are two Hebrew words for 'why', and one of them is lama.

The whole video is good, but you only need to watch 2.5 minutes for an explanation  - it should start at 14:26 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoqsqlq8eJw#t=14m26s

That was a good sermon, or lecture. Thanks for the link. I'll have to listen to more.

I, too, was taught/told it was the moment Jesus became fully human and felt abandoned by God the Father. But the older I've gotten and more read in the Bible the more obvious it is that Jesus is referencing Psalm 22. As He had referenced scripture many times before.

I did a sermon on this saying 2 years ago.  Myself I think there are several factors at work.  Let me give you an annotated version of my sermon.

This statement spoken in Aramaic and translated, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me or why have You abandoned Me?”  It is one of the most debated sentences in the entire Bible.
What did Jesus mean?
There is no agreement among the scholars. Different people have different opinions. There are probably hundreds of different thoughts.
In fact there is a story of Martin Luther, father of the Protestant Reformation.  And he was preparing an Easter message on this very passage.  And this passage of scripture so troubled him that he sequestered himself far away from his friends and family and colleagues to consider it.  And after several days meditating on this passage he was heard to mumble; “God forsaking God, I don’t get it.”

Let me share with you three possible different explanations of this difficult passage.

First, in his Human nature, Jesus felt abandoned by God the Father.

Vs 42 - 43

But we must remember that Jesus was God in the flesh.

John 1:14 says, “The Word became flesh and dwelled among us.”

In Philippians 2 Paul says He “took on the very shell of a man”.

So He is deity in human form. Therefore in His human nature some would say that He experienced an emotional separation from His Heavenly Father in His human nature.

Colossians 2:9 says, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”

It’s so tough with our limited intellect to try and understand that when Christ came to earth He was both divine and human. Part of that humanness on this first “Good Friday” was the emotional suffering that must have accompanied carrying all the crud that I had ever done and all of the sins you had ever committed, not to mention the mistakes of millions and billions of others through the years.
Some think that this cry from the Cross was the human side speaking out. In His pain He felt forsaken.

There is a second possible explanation and that is; that Christ is quoting from Psalm 22 and fulfilling a Messianic Prophecy.

Vs 46 - 49

Now, it’s true He is quoting from Psalm 22. There is no question about that. There is a fulfillment that is taking place.

Back then the Jewish people had an insatiable love for the Scripture. Typically, by the time a child was twelve years of age they had committed to memory the first five books of the Old Testament. Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. In the Bible in front of you, that is one hundred and fifty-one pages. And they had that memorized by the time they were twelve.  
It wasn’t until centuries later that Bible scholars added in the chapters and verses. The numbers would make it easier to find and locate things.
Back then, when a Rabbi would be teaching he couldn’t refer to a number of a verse. Since they had so much of the Old Testament memorized they would say the first verse of a Psalm and then the people in their minds would fast forward through. They would then quote the rest of it because they knew the middle and the ends of it.

Throughout the Bible when a Jewish person would experience something noteworthy or significant, whether it was a good occasion or a bad occasion, they would immediately quote the appropriate scripture that fit the moment or the setting.
That’s why when Mary found out that she was pregnant she immediately began to quote a Psalm. She went through that Psalm and all that went with it.

For instance, if a person is close to death, a Jewish person might say to them, “The Lord is my shepherd.” You ask, “What does that have to do with death?” That person in their mind would fast-forward through the middle to the end of the Psalm and in their minds they would say, “Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil for thou are with me.”  

So understand and keep in mind that Jesus’ words, “My God My God why have You forsaken Me?” is the opening phrase of Psalm 22.
Maybe He was trying to convey something to all that heard by saying the first verse so that they would understand the rest of the Psalm.

Psalm 22 is one of the most vivid descriptions of a crucifixion in the Bible, which is interesting because those words were written nine hundred and fifty years before Jesus was born.
Oh, and guess what else! When those words were written, crucifixion had not yet been invented. It wasn’t until centuries later that the Carthaginians began to execute people upon a Cross and yet it is a perfect description of what Jesus Christ went through.  

The reminder that comes through for us is that perhaps Jesus wasn’t asking a question at all when He said,  “My God My God why have You forsaken Me?” Maybe He wasn’t asking that. Instead, maybe He was merely using those words to remind the people of the Psalm they had memorized. Maybe He was reminding them that God the Father had not hidden His face from Him and that someday future generations would proclaim His righteousness for “He has done it”. In other words He has atoned for their unrighteousness.

And while all of that is important to know, it misses the most important reason why Jesus was forsaken at the cross.  On the cross, Jesus became sin and so for a brief moment God the Father abandoned Him.

Isaiah 59:2 reminds us that our sins create a separation between us and God, And that God hides his face from our sins

You see, God is so completely holy that he cannot even look on sin.  And those that are guilty of sin cannot even stand in his presence.
And while it may be impossible for us to understand totally, at the cross God was transferring on Christ all the sin of the world.
At that pivotal moment in time, Jesus became guilty of Saul’s persecution and murder of Christians, Hitler’s holocaust, Jezebel’s immorality, Elvis’s drug abuse, Osama Bin Laden’s murders and Bernie Madoff’s greed, not to mention our own sins and mistakes.

The Bible says that “God laid on Him the iniquity of us all”

Later in Galatians, Paul's words seem to convey the idea that Christ was forsaken for that time on the Cross.

Galatians 3:13 says, “Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

I John 2:2 says, “He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.”

Guilt and shame suddenly separated Jesus from the Father in spite of the fact that they had always had an intimate, perfect relationship. As Jesus bore our guilt and shame, He experienced a momentary separation from God.  
God turned His head because of the sin He saw on His Son.
Now, as horrible as that may sound, for those who trust in Christ for their salvation, it is wonderful news.  
Because as Christ willingly took on our sin, and our guilt, and our shame, he in turn gave us his righteousness, his holiness, and his glory.
Later Paul would put it this way.

2 Corinthians 5:21 says. “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”

As Jesus took on the guilt and punishment of our sin at the cross, he paved the way for our justification through God’s grace.
As God turned his back on Christ at Calvary, it enabled him to turn his face toward us.

Here's another answer supporting the Psalm 22 explanation.

Thank you. That is a powerful and detailed explanation. I woukd have loved to hear your sermon


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I preach from my manuscripts. If you'd like the full sermon IM me an email address and ill send it to you.

I agree.  I'm the son of a Lutheran pastor (did not go into the ministry myself), and enjoyed reading through that.  Thanks!