User Panel
Posted: 12/31/2021 11:37:48 AM EDT
Update 1 Feb '22
The team challenge is in the record books. 10 hardy arfcommers entered and logged 1,165,690 m in just 31 days. Nice work all, it was a great way to burn off the holiday debauchery and jump start the new year. If you have access to a Concept 2 machine: rower, ski, or bike erg, here's an opportunity to jump on team ARF for a January virtual challenge. Join the ARFCOM ERGERS team and sign up for the Virtual Team Challenge on the C2 logbook site: https://log.concept2.com/challenges/vtc Then row, row, row, and log your meters. The Details Each team completes as many meters as they can collectively between 12:00 a.m. January 1 and 11:59 p.m. January 31. RowErg, SkiErg and BikeErg meters only (no on water/on snow meters please). You can combine meters from each machine to reach the challenge goal. Note: BikeErg meters are counted as half when applied to the challenge. This is a team challenge. You must belong to a team to participate. This is not the same as your club affiliation in your profile. See "Information for Team Members" below. Teams must consist of at least two (2) people. Team members will not appear on challenge boards until at least two people are taking part. Important deadline: Complete the following tasks by January 16 23:59 GMT (18:59 ET) or your team will not be enrolled in the challenge and/or your team members' meters will not count for the challenge: All team members must be added to your team. Team members who have their own logbooks must indicate in their logbooks that they are actively participating in the current challenge. (See the Team member page for more information.) Meters must be entered online. Because of the large number of participants in the challenge, we cannot accept results via phone, fax or email. We suggest that any members who have access to the internet create their own profile so that they can enter their own results. Meters completed each week should be entered no later than midnight on Friday of that week. This works on the honor system. It makes it fair and fun for everyone if you can watch the progress of the teams that you are competing against. Concept2 reserves the right to ask for proof of meter totals if they seem suspect and to disqualify any team from the challenge who we feel is not participating honestly. Deadline for entering meters: February 3 23:59 GMT (18:59 ET). Who Can Participate Virtual teams (not based on or around a specific physical location) can be made up of anyone from anywhere who wants to participate—friends, family, co-workers, old schoolmates, rowing teammates, and so on. Teams can also be real "clubs" with a physical location. Team captains will be asked to indicate their club division when registering their team for the first time. The choices are: Virtual Education Military On-Water Health/Fitness Corporate Emergency Services Medical Facility Correctional Facility CrossFit View Quote You could win major awards! Incentives and Rewards Anyone who participates in the challenge is eligible for the following incentives and rewards, regardless of how many meters are completed: A free downloadable certificate of achievement The option to purchase Virtual Team Challenge items at our third-party vendor (availability varies by country) Inclusion on the Virtual Team Challenge Honor Board—a list of all the teams and team members participating in the challenge. View Quote |
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I finished the holiday 200k challenge and should be getting another pin in January. I'll join the team, but my meters will be cut back due to training for other events this year.
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Not sure why I thought this would be a fun challenge in addition to couch 2 10k. I'm on week 6 and ran 3 miles right before rowing my 5k.
Ouch |
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Gah. If I can get over this cold I'll jump on the rower and contribute. Right now it's chicken soup for me.
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I put 5K in this afternoon. I’ll put another 5K in tomorrow afternoon. We’re no. 43 in the 8-20 group.
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I use one daily and track it via my Garmin Instinct. If I can just link via that to the Concept 2 I am in but I don't want another tracker I have to start when I row.
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Quoted: I use one daily and track it via my Garmin Instinct. If I can just link via that to the Concept 2 I am in but I don't want another tracker I have to start when I row. View Quote |
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View Quote That’s hilarious! |
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What do you guys normally like for drag factor/damper setting, stroke rate etc?
I set the machine around 125 on the drag factor (damper ~4) and seem to average 28spm. Would I be more efficient by opening up the damper and slowing down the strokes? |
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Disclaimer: I'm just a desk jockey trying not to get fat
28 spm would be fast for me. For a 5K I usually average 20 spm. I put all the effort into the pull then the recovery is pretty slow and relaxed. I don't know which is more efficient, but for a given pace my knees, ass and lower back are happier with a lower spm than a higher one. I never really paid attention to drag factor. When I first got my rower I dicked around with the damper to get a feel for the different settings but it has been set at 5 since forever. Here are the stats on my Sunday 5K if it helps for comparison: Time: 22:23.7 Pace: 2.14.3 Avg Watts: 144 Stroke Rate: 20 Stroke Count: 448 Drag Factor: 109 . |
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I looked at the ones I am using at the base gym, I have been setting the resistance thing on the side to 8, 26-28 spm, I vary the stroke effort by doing intervals every other day.
a 5k takes me from 24-26 mins. I suspect this sucks but I am new at rowing as an exercise. I would note that my HR is HARD to get up on a rower compared to running and cycling. My exercise HR is normally in a zone 3 and to get above that I just shell myself. It is obvious to me a long time athlete, that it doesn't exercise cardio as aggressively as running or cycling. I does work my back and shoulders much better than other cardio exercises. |
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The machines at the gym just have the lever thing over the fan unit to set the load. How do I compare that to the load numbers shown here.
I don't see that data on the screen while working out. I have cycled through the display and found the watt meter which I understand because of my competitive cycling days. The 7/8 setting on the fan section just feels "normal" because heavier is like pulling mud while lighter is not a workout for my arms and shoulders. Should I shoot for wattage and not worry about anything else? I would imagine the watts are pulled from the flywheel via a load meter of some sort, if it isn't than the entire reading is junk. |
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Quoted: Here's my workout from yesterday, drag factor ~125. It's interesting that my pace is pretty close to Jay but the strokes are a third higher. I'm 6'4" and my stroke length is 1.3m. I'm wondering if it should be longer. My heart rate gets up decently but my theoretical max HR (=220-age) is 185. https://i.imgur.com/IHOuqzM.png For today I tried a higher drag factor, I think it was 140. Tomorrow I am going to try 110 and see how that feels. My watts are also kinda low so I think my workouts have been in a weird gray zone of not quite cardio, but also not quite power. Perhaps I've been accidentally sandbagging? View Quote Your stroke rate/wattage don't look like mine. My wattage would be around 210-225 at your stroke pace. You no doubt have less resistance on the machine compared to me. |
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Quoted: The machines at the gym just have the lever thing over the fan unit to set the load. How do I compare that to the load numbers shown here. I don't see that data on the screen while working out. I have cycled through the display and found the watt meter which I understand because of my competitive cycling days. The 7/8 setting on the fan section just feels "normal" because heavier is like pulling mud while lighter is not a workout for my arms and shoulders. Should I shoot for wattage and not worry about anything else? I would imagine the watts are pulled from the flywheel via a load meter of some sort, if it isn't than the entire reading is junk. View Quote If you're using a C2, you should be able to go through the menu and find the "Drag Factor" option. Then, you row for a little bit and it will be displayed on the screen. Olympians train between 125-135, from what I've read. |
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Quoted: I would note that my HR is HARD to get up on a rower compared to running and cycling. My exercise HR is normally in a zone 3 and to get above that I just shell myself. It is obvious to me a long time athlete, that it doesn't exercise cardio as aggressively as running or cycling. I does work my back and shoulders much better than other cardio exercises. View Quote Work on keeping your back straight and pushing with your legs primarily. I find my HR gets up there when I push hard with the legs and allow the momentum to carry my torso and arms back with me. Almost like you're sling-shotting your upper body by pushing off with your legs. I've been putting in 1ks around 3:30 the last couple days and really been concentrating on the push-off for power. |
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Quoted: If you're using a C2, you should be able to go through the menu and find the "Drag Factor" option. Then, you row for a little bit and it will be displayed on the screen. Olympians train between 125-135, from what I've read. View Quote It is a C2 with a generic looking LCD display. The typical machine you see in a CrossFit gym which is basically where I work out in my gym (the USAF calls the area the "Functional Fitness" area) The C2 is black and low to the ground, it appears to a basic device which is fine with me. My indoor running is on an AirRunner, now that is a workout. |
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Quoted: Your stroke rate/wattage don't look like mine. My wattage would be around 210-225 at your stroke pace. You no doubt have less resistance on the machine compared to me. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Here's my workout from yesterday, drag factor ~125. It's interesting that my pace is pretty close to Jay but the strokes are a third higher. I'm 6'4" and my stroke length is 1.3m. I'm wondering if it should be longer. My heart rate gets up decently but my theoretical max HR (=220-age) is 185. https://i.imgur.com/IHOuqzM.png For today I tried a higher drag factor, I think it was 140. Tomorrow I am going to try 110 and see how that feels. My watts are also kinda low so I think my workouts have been in a weird gray zone of not quite cardio, but also not quite power. Perhaps I've been accidentally sandbagging? Your stroke rate/wattage don't look like mine. My wattage would be around 210-225 at your stroke pace. You no doubt have less resistance on the machine compared to me. The ergdata app is the only way I've found to get these data displays. The online logbook does not generate the graph with USB upload. I am still learning how to maximize efficiency on this thing. My cycling FTP is about 250 watts. It will be interesting to monitor the rowing power over time and see if it trends closer as my conditioning and form improve. I am a very novice rower. |
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Quoted: Here's my workout from yesterday, drag factor ~125. It's interesting that my pace is pretty close to Jay but the strokes are a third higher. I'm 6'4" and my stroke length is 1.3m. I'm wondering if it should be longer. My heart rate gets up decently but my theoretical max HR (=220-age) is 185. For today I tried a higher drag factor, I think it was 140. Tomorrow I am going to try 110 and see how that feels. My watts are also kinda low so I think my workouts have been in a weird gray zone of not quite cardio, but also not quite power. Perhaps I've been accidentally sandbagging? View Quote I'm 5'11" and my stroke length usually averages 1.3m. At 6'4" I would say you're leaving some length on the table and that adds up over hundreds of strokes. Also, looking at your heart rate #'s I'd say you're not sandbagging in terms of effort. Lots of good vids on YouTube for proper form. Dark Horse rowing has a lot of content. I liked Training Tall's early vids too. |
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I set the damper to 0 and focused on getting full extension and slowing the pace down. The flywheel spins for quite some time in that setting allowing me to focus on the recovery and catch. I reduced average strokes from 27 to 23, and finished today's 5k at identical pace but in ~80 fewer strokes. I think most of my strokes were 1.3-1.4 meters. HR averaged a little higher at 169 but I ran 3 miles prior to rowing today.
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FWIW, I’m 5’ 9” and my stroke length is usually 1.24m. This is for the longer steady state rows at a rate of 21. I keep the drag factor between 120-125. When I get lazy, I’ll notice that it drops down to 1.21m and that makes me refocus. I try to keep a straight back, shins no further than vertical when I start the catch, upper body rotating at the hips from 11 to 1, straight arms at the catch, and try for an “explosive” drive. A stroke length of 1.3m at 6’ 4” sounds like it’s a little bit short.
I think Erik said that he has a hard time getting his HR up compared to running or cycling. I don’t have that issue and am usually trying to modulate my HR to keep it in a zone. I’m just an amateur that rows for general fitness. The Concept2 Forum has many elite rowers and coaches that can answer your questions much better than I can: Concept2 Forum |
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Quoted: FWIW, I'm 5' 9" and my stroke length is usually 1.24m. This is for the longer steady state rows at a rate of 21. I keep the drag factor between 120-125. When I get lazy, I'll notice that it drops down to 1.21m and that makes me refocus. I try to keep a straight back, shins no further than vertical when I start the catch, upper body rotating at the hips from 11 to 1, straight arms at the catch, and try for an "explosive" drive. A stroke length of 1.3m at 6' 4" sounds like it's a little bit short. I think Erik said that he has a hard time getting his HR up compared to running or cycling. I don't have that issue and am usually trying to modulate my HR to keep it in a zone. I'm just an amateur that rows for general fitness. The Concept2 Forum has many elite rowers and coaches that can answer your questions much better than I can: Concept2 Forum View Quote Did my best splits yet in today's workout. Power is up 26%, stroke rate down to 20, drive length 1.42. HR increased nominally but the results of this effort are largely attributed to improved form and efficiency. It's been a fun learning experiment so far. Maximum Power on the Rowing Machine |
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Quoted: I set the damper to 0 and focused on getting full extension and slowing the pace down. The flywheel spins for quite some time in that setting allowing me to focus on the recovery and catch. I reduced average strokes from 27 to 23, and finished today's 5k at identical pace but in ~80 fewer strokes. I think most of my strokes were 1.3-1.4 meters. HR averaged a little higher at 169 but I ran 3 miles prior to rowing today. View Quote If you cycle through the displays it will show you a graph of force vs stroke distance. That's very informative, try to avoid flat spots in the graph. Ideally force should ramp up quickly and stay more or less constant through the stroke. Here's a very brief discussion, hopefully it has pointers to more information https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/tips-and-general-info/using-the-force-curve The notion of optimizing damper setting or using it to tune the workout for different objectives is near to my heart. As soon as I'm healthy I'm going to run a series of experiments. Right now I have a positive covid result and symptoms so I'm probably a few days away from going back to the gym. |
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Quoted: If you cycle through the displays it will show you a graph of force vs stroke distance. That's very informative, try to avoid flat spots in the graph. Ideally force should ramp up quickly and stay more or less constant through the stroke. Here's a very brief discussion, hopefully it has pointers to more information https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/tips-and-general-info/using-the-force-curve The notion of optimizing damper setting or using it to tune the workout for different objectives is near to my heart. As soon as I'm healthy I'm going to run a series of experiments. Right now I have a positive covid result and symptoms so I'm probably a few days away from going back to the gym. View Quote I used this Dark Horse video for timing and tempo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuD7OL1_0M4 Unfortunately, an ad popped up right around the 7 minute mark. What a catastrophe, I was just hitting my stride and could barely push the button to skip the ad. By the time I got it, I was pretty much off the reservation. Started fast forwarding and rewinding between every stroke to try and get close to the program. I would have been fine being slightly ahead of pace, but I accidentally closed the video. I restarted the video while thinking that I most likely blew it. Pretty gassed at this point, realized at the final 1k that I still had a chance. Finished the row with a quarter of a second to spare. When I stopped the video, I realized I accidentally restarted the 19 minute 5k video. That increased pace in the second half is probably the only thing that kept me in it. |
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Quoted: Feeling any better? I'm curious about the experiments you have planned. I finally cracked 20 minutes on the 5k through a comedy of errors. I used this Dark Horse video for timing and tempo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuD7OL1_0M4 Unfortunately, an ad popped up right around the 7 minute mark. What a catastrophe, I was just hitting my stride and could barely push the button to skip the ad. By the time I got it, I was pretty much off the reservation. Started fast forwarding and rewinding between every stroke to try and get close to the program. I would have been fine being slightly ahead of pace, but I accidentally closed the video. I restarted the video while thinking that I most likely blew it. Pretty gassed at this point, realized at the final 1k that I still had a chance. Finished the row with a quarter of a second to spare. When I stopped the video, I realized I accidentally restarted the 19 minute 5k video. That increased pace in the second half is probably the only thing that kept me in it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: If you cycle through the displays it will show you a graph of force vs stroke distance. That's very informative, try to avoid flat spots in the graph. Ideally force should ramp up quickly and stay more or less constant through the stroke. Here's a very brief discussion, hopefully it has pointers to more information https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/tips-and-general-info/using-the-force-curve The notion of optimizing damper setting or using it to tune the workout for different objectives is near to my heart. As soon as I'm healthy I'm going to run a series of experiments. Right now I have a positive covid result and symptoms so I'm probably a few days away from going back to the gym. I used this Dark Horse video for timing and tempo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuD7OL1_0M4 Unfortunately, an ad popped up right around the 7 minute mark. What a catastrophe, I was just hitting my stride and could barely push the button to skip the ad. By the time I got it, I was pretty much off the reservation. Started fast forwarding and rewinding between every stroke to try and get close to the program. I would have been fine being slightly ahead of pace, but I accidentally closed the video. I restarted the video while thinking that I most likely blew it. Pretty gassed at this point, realized at the final 1k that I still had a chance. Finished the row with a quarter of a second to spare. When I stopped the video, I realized I accidentally restarted the 19 minute 5k video. That increased pace in the second half is probably the only thing that kept me in it. Yes! I just clocked in 4500 m, my first post-covid workout. I did 500 m intervals at a 1-3-5-7-9-10-6-4-2 damper settings, tomorrow I'll see if a pattern emerges. I expect to find an optimum setting in there somewhere. I think it probably depends on workout length as well: higher damper settings probably suit me better for sprints, lower settings for longer workouts. From here on in I'll probably tend more toward endurance, maybe spend 20 minutes on the machine and just grind out meters. Looking at the team standings, I have some catching up to do! |
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Quoted: Yes! I just clocked in 4500 m, my first post-covid workout. I did 500 m intervals at a 1-3-5-7-9-10-6-4-2 damper settings, tomorrow I'll see if a pattern emerges. I expect to find an optimum setting in there somewhere. I think it probably depends on workout length as well: higher damper settings probably suit me better for sprints, lower settings for longer workouts. From here on in I'll probably tend more toward endurance, maybe spend 20 minutes on the machine and just grind out meters. Looking at the team standings, I have some catching up to do! View Quote Glad you are feeling well enough to row. Any ill effects noted or still too early to tell? I'm really impressed with the workouts everyone is doing. It's great motivation. |
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Quoted: Glad you are feeling well enough to row. Any ill effects noted or still too early to tell? I'm really impressed with the workouts everyone is doing. It's great motivation. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Yes! I just clocked in 4500 m, my first post-covid workout. I did 500 m intervals at a 1-3-5-7-9-10-6-4-2 damper settings, tomorrow I'll see if a pattern emerges. I expect to find an optimum setting in there somewhere. I think it probably depends on workout length as well: higher damper settings probably suit me better for sprints, lower settings for longer workouts. From here on in I'll probably tend more toward endurance, maybe spend 20 minutes on the machine and just grind out meters. Looking at the team standings, I have some catching up to do! Glad you are feeling well enough to row. Any ill effects noted or still too early to tell? I'm really impressed with the workouts everyone is doing. It's great motivation. No ill effects, in fact I expected about a week of misery recovering and regaining fitness, but it's like the sick-well switch got flipped back to well yesterday. I sat down on the rower expecting to just move and work out the kinks, instead got a pretty good workout. Next up, I'm going to row different intensities at the same damper setting. There's a myth that drag factor depends on who is rowing, I want to learn whether that's true. |
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5,480 m tonight.
My butt hurts. Also my hams cramped hard when I went to do power cleans. All worth it. Nobody ever died of muscle soreness, and that pain is weakness leaving my body. |
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Quoted: 5,480 m tonight. My butt hurts. Also my hams cramped hard when I went to do power cleans. All worth it. Nobody ever died of muscle soreness, and that pain is weakness leaving my body. View Quote |
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Quoted: You're killing it. I recently ordered a vapor fitness butt pad, it should be here Monday. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: 5,480 m tonight. My butt hurts. Also my hams cramped hard when I went to do power cleans. All worth it. Nobody ever died of muscle soreness, and that pain is weakness leaving my body. Just trying to catch up and contribute to the team. I got some informal coaching from a collegiate rower. Try rotating your pelvis forward and make sure your core is engaged. She observed my butt was rotated back a little, which puts my back at risk. It's a subtle difference in technique, but as she points out small technique errors are magnified over thousands of strokes and turn into injuries. I think she mentioned that we should be perched on the bony parts of our pelvis. Also try shifting backward on the seat a little bit so you're in that curved part. I saw that on a youtube video Inside every fat boy there is a less fat boy trying to get out. It's a hardball world, son. We've gotta try to keep our heads until this fat craze blows over. |
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I'm suffering through a case of the Wu flu. I haven't rowed in a week. I feel like shit. Maybe starting this weekend.
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8,144 m today. Walking up the stairs to the kitchen was... interesting. I'm taking myself offline for weekend maintenance.
I have yet another friend at the gym who is a former collegiate rower, and she worked on a research study regarding foot positioning on C2 rowers. They concluded that the foot pieces need to be raised 4 mm to optimize performance. That got us started talking about setting the foot position. Rowing on these machines is basically a series of deadlifts with compromised position. Ideally the chain would be right between our feet. But the machine is intended to duplicate a boat. Think about doing deads with the barbell out ahead of your feet by 6". That's what we are doing on a rower. Not ideal. I had been rowing with the foot rests in the 3 position. A few days ago I moved them up to 2, to better approximate a good dead position and allow my heels to stay down. I'm going to play with it a bit and see if I can find an optimal position. As my friend pointed out, there's a design flaw in the foot rests: the strap stays stationary, so your optimal foot position might place the strap in a non optimal place on your foot. She gave me this tip: let your pinkies hang off the ends of the handle. That will allow you to pull a little closer to your sternum, and engage your forearms all the way to the end of the stroke. I'm going to try that next time out. |
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Digging around for information, I found a library of articles with rowing technique guides and workouts. Enjoy! https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/training/plans-and-resources
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I ordered one.
been thinking about getting one for a while, this thread pretty much sealed the deal. |
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Quoted: IMHO, it’s money well spent. If it was 3X the price, I’d still get one. View Quote has good reviews, and the arfcom stamp of approval. For me its in addition to MTB. I've got pretty reasonable cardio, but big down hill chunky rides my core and upper body start to get tired and I get sloppy and start making mistakes. after a lot of thought a rower seemed like the best tool to fix that. |
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I had to spot you turkeys 10 days while I was off covid-ing. Now I'm catching up. I'm getting back in touch with my inner endorphin junkie. Tonight, a little over 8k, then a power clean/deadlift/running workout. If I can walk tomorrow it will be a miracle. Two collegiate rowers have now cautioned me to be careful with high damper settings, aka high drag factors. Spontaneous broken or dislocated ribs are a common overuse injury. I've been rowing for distance anywhere from 2 - 4 on the damper. |
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Quoted: has good reviews, and the arfcom stamp of approval. For me its in addition to MTB. I've got pretty reasonable cardio, but big down hill chunky rides my core and upper body start to get tired and I get sloppy and start making mistakes. after a lot of thought a rower seemed like the best tool to fix that. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: IMHO, it’s money well spent. If it was 3X the price, I’d still get one. has good reviews, and the arfcom stamp of approval. For me its in addition to MTB. I've got pretty reasonable cardio, but big down hill chunky rides my core and upper body start to get tired and I get sloppy and start making mistakes. after a lot of thought a rower seemed like the best tool to fix that. Just a week of serious distance rowing and I can already tell my core is switched on. And my hams are more flexy than they've been in years. Just be sure to watch some good technique videos, don't sacrifice your lower back. |
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