I have an honest question: Repeatedly in pictures of U.S. soldiers in the Mideast combat, I see their combat rifles equipped with vertical handguard grips. For civilian "self defense" shooting (not competition shooting), is a vertical grip a good idea? Or is it just a personal preference? Thanks

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It is purely a personal preference.

Current training doctrine lends to shooters placing their support hand as far forward on the rifle as possible.

For some, this is the overhand grip way up forward on the rifle (up near the front sight). For others, it is using a vertical or angled foregrip
somewhere between the magwell and the front sight.

Pick the one that works best for you.

When I was deployed, it seemed like the vertical grip was used because it looks cool and people thought it was useful to use at first.  I tried it and hated it.  The vertical grip would get caught on everything and didn't feel comfortable to use.

Thanks, for the straight answers.  Good info and food for thought.

I'll try this on my SBR and see how it works while keeping in my what you've suggested here.

For civilian "self defense" shooting (not competition shooting), is a vertical grip a good idea? Or is it just a personal preference?

It depends on what you intend to do with the rifle.

A couple of different thoughts on the possible usefulness of a forward grip.

1)  If you think you are likely to get into a fight where 100 or more rounds will be fired at a cyclic rate, a forward grip will lengthen the time your forward hand will be able to maintain its grip (due to barrel heat buildup).  If you think this is likely to happen to you, a forward grip (or a glove) will be worth its weight in gold.  If you think it is unlikely to happen, then you probably don’t need a forward grip.

2) How far away are the targets you expect to engage?  This line of thought was presented to me by a SWAT LEO who had gone back and forth over the years about using a forward grip on his duty rifle.  If the targets you are most worried about will be at room distances (15 feet or less), a forward grip maybe very useful because it allows you to drive your rifle from target to target faster and you will be better able to retain control of your rifle if your target gets his hands on the rifle and is actively trying to take it away from you.  The further your target is from you, the less accurate your shooting will be and the less useful a forward grip will be.  He also explained that the closer the target is expected to be, the closer the forward grip should be to the mag well; the further the target, the further forward the grip should be.  Over the years, at one time or another, he had moved the forward grip to every possible location (and totally removed it) trying to figure out what worked best for him.

Full disclosure: I do not have forward grips on any of my rifles, but then I am not a door-kicker and have no expectation of having either a rifle-fight inside my house or expending 100 rounds (at a cyclic rate) during my next gunfight.

There is an old saying: “The mission drives the gear train.”  Figure out what you expect/want to do with your rifle and only then set it up to meet those needs.  Don’t bolt crap on your rifle just because it is what all the cool kids are doing.

I have tried all three "options" of the vertical grip including the AFG and currently have the stock Daniel Defense grip that came with the rifle.  It's a little shorter and less to have in place.  I have repeatedly installed a bipod for verifying zero at range but have been taking it off after that process.  While shooting, regardless of position, I find myself normally not using (read avoiding) the vertical grip.  I'm not sure I'll even be "on patrol" or need to worry about an extended fire fight that'll require protection from heat.  Also, it just doesn't seem natural or comfortable to my hand/arms so I've been thinking of removing it permanently.  Like previous comments, I believe that this is a very personal preference and it just doesn't seem to work for me in any application, from standing to prone.  My $.02

When I first started training for "tactical" engagements, I was taught to use the magwell for CQB and the handguard for distance. That was before I got a M16A4 with rails. Once I got one of those, I was told to place the broomstick as close to the magwell as possible for the tightest position. After a while (and a couple deployments), I began to notice that the training shifted from close in, to placing the forward grip on the far 1/3 of the handguard. For as long as we had them, we were taught to use the vertical grip since it, supposedly, effected greater stability.

* For full disclosure, I was part of the b@st@rd regiment of the Marine Corps, so there's that.

After I left active duty, I became a Fed LEO, and my FLETC instructor started teaching us a "modified" overhand, or "c" grip. I found it MUCH easier to drive my muzzle from target to target and around corners that way, than with a vertical grip. After that, I took a course taught by a SWAT instructor who showed me the benefit of using an AFG or handstop (depending on the size of your hand and size of your gun). I went with a stubby VFG that I used as a handstop, and never looked back.

Bottom line, do what you're comfortable with; but most definitely be open to learning what works best for you.

Always been a fan of the "Gangsta grip" I ran a KAC original Vertical for-grip for years.. then made a stubby version of it... Then switched to a Tango Down stubby. Now I run a BCM stubby . It puts my hand and wrist in a good comfortable position where I can get good control of the gun.
They also work well up against barricades for bracing the gun. I like the added storage, keep a bottle os lube and a spare battery,etc.

Like others have said, its a personnel preference thing. You have to try it and see how it works for you.

For me it's just extra weight and another doodad taking up space on one of my rails, preventing me from getting a decent recoil-mitigating grip on the fore arm. If I need to do massive mag dumps and keep firing after the barrel is smoking hot then I just move my hand from the fore arm to the magazine to avoid the heat. I sometimes use a Grip Pod - but I use it for the bipod feature, not the grip.

This all stands for the lightweight carbines. I use a vertical grip on an EBR because it's easier to handle due to the ridiculous weight - so I make an exception there - but when I shoulder it to shoot, my hand goes off of the vertical grip.

I use a vert grip as it gets the ergonomics just right to use my thumb to actuate the tailcap switch on a flashlight mounted on my rifle. If I didnt use the light I'd probably drop the grip so for me its situational. 

Firing a lot of rounds? Yes.

Got a lot of stuff and nowhere to grip? Lights? Laser? NVG? Yes.

Makes it easy to use one of those accessories? Probably.

Grip pod on a precision-oriented rifle? Yes.

Want to look cool? Stop being ridiculous.

Preexisting injuries or just how your body works that makes it more comfortable? Yes.

I'm not a fan of having one just to have. Not comfortable for me. If it serves a purpose, then yes, all day.

Carry your rifle for 12 hours.  You'll find the VFG to be much more comfortable than no grip.  For the soldier, carrying the rifle is 99% of the use.  FOr the civilian, its about shooting, where I don't find the VFG to be particularly useful.

I like the KAC broomstick, personally.

I have exactly one gun with a front vertical grip, and that's just to keep my fingers away from the muzzle and the reciprocating charging handles.

If you are carrying a 12.5 pound beast then the weight will catch up to you a lot quicker than that. I tend to not run VFGs but I do have one full time on two heavy rifles for exactly this reason. I carry with the muzzle down and the pistol grip high and tight at the pectoral muscle. The VFG stays low near the hip with my left hand on it. To shoot, I roll my left hand off of the VFG and onto the handguard.

Military vs Civilian needs and shooting are going to be fairly different.

That said, I find the Fortis short angled grip to suit my needs very well in both worlds.

The vertical grip I use on my duty rifle is more of a hand stop than it is really a grip. I always grip the hand guard primarily and naturally know the vertical grip is the spot where my hand rests.

I've shot quite a bit in last 4-5 years.
Tried all 3.. old school hold, vertical front grip and angled fore grip.

I am in favor of the VFG and any AR I get I will put one on right away.
Why?

Because I think of my AR as a Tactical Rifle.

But if I ever need to use it as a tactical rifle it will likely not be a fresh stud clearing rooms on full auto... this is the PoU has made the "far forward" grip so popular.
That grip is simply unsustainable on a half day patrol or for anything else but very short range shooting.

Its a great grip if you are a SWAT Team member who gets delivered to his shootout via a vehicle.
It also thrives in competitions for the same reason.

But if you as a citizen (I am no longer "in") ever have to use your AR as  a tactical rifle for a sustained amount of time you will likely walk wherever you're going.
And be exhausted as you do.

This is where a VFG shines.
It makes holding a rifle at the patrol ready easier on your arms and less energy intensive, even easier than the old school grip.

Also a VFG hold really lends itself to ripping up your rifle when surprised even while a bit tired.. as it makes positive control of the rifle mechanically easier, not more exact.. thats what forward grip does but easier.
The forward grip can be more precise at short ranges... but it also exacerbates errors.

Bringing a rifle easily into action when tired is a valuable feature IMO.

In the end it all comes down to personal preference but I made my analysis and these are my 2 cents,

note:   pls try to move the light off the bottem  most dont do that. can snag or barricade blocker
not a good spot. anyone says so RUN away. most use side rail. some use top. never use bottem.


1texan

Same, for the reasons stated above.  With a vertical grip on the front of the rifle your wrist can maintain a natural position.  
Without one your hand-wrist will be flexed backwards and that compresses the blood vessels there, eventually leading to your fingers and hand losing full circulation ("falling asleep").

I mainly use handstops and I do have a few set ups with stubby VFG's. I use them as a handstop as well. Another reason I prefer having them on my rifles is for when I am using a barricade for support, the VFG/handstop also acts as support mechanism and allows me to lean harder into the rifle to get a more stable shooting platform. Hope that makes sense.


ETA: Replied before reading the rest of the thread and, pretty much mimic what Harv24 stated below.

I've tried no grip, handstops, grip stops, and VFGs.  Over long periods of hunting, I found all but VFGs as uncomfortable to my wrist and challenging to carry the weapon at a low ready or relaxed state.

The ones I've tried are the IWC handstop, B5 grip stop, BCM stubby VFG, Samson stubby VFG, and Tango down VFG.   I really like the Tango down for light weight, good size but not too long, and keeps the wrist extremely comfortable.





Above is some progression.  I run it with all four fingers around the grip and the thumb over the rail to activate the pressure pad.  Again, extremely comfortable wrist angle and for not active carry.

I also subscribe to multiples of the same set up

Training and gear has a lot of fads. They come and go.

I like vertical foregrips. I've tried various ones and keep coming back to the KAC.

See what vertical grip muscle memory gets you when you switch platforms?

(my gun but not me)...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BWk1mk8D8Hl/

The only time I ever felt the need to run a forward grip, is when I'm running a carbine length hand guard (7-9in) equipped with lights, and lasers. It leaves little space for proper grip. Hence the foregrip.

Some can’t stand them. I can’t stand to be without. I’ve found that the longer you carry a rifle the more you’ll appreciate a VFG. The heavier your rifle gets (light, laser, etc.), the more you’ll appreciate a VFG. I prefer a short grip and put my thumb on top of the 9:00 rail/MLOK/whatever to activate the weapon light mounted at the 10:30. Middle finger goes in the crook where V grip meets forend. Only the ring finger and pinky are really on the face of the grip. Angled grips do not provide enough vertical to allow a stress-free wrist position. YMMV

I still find the way you describe your grip as uncomfortable and unnatural.  To me it still contorts the wrist unnaturally.  Four fingers on the grip and one over bore is most painless and still gives good control.

I found this out after a 10 hr hog hunt and eventual wrist fatigue from not doing this

update

thanks for all the input

working well

I have a vertical grip on my SBR mainly because the gas block is right in the middle of the hand guard. It gets super hot after about 3 mags. Once I put a vertical grip I can shoot as much as I want with no issues.

They say consistency is the key to good shooting.

I use the KAC VFG on the rifles I practice with a Colt M4 and my LMT MWS 308.  

They are both located the same distance down the rail from the trigger. It's a comfortable grip that minimizes fatigue and stress on my arms, shoulders and back.

It's the same as having the seat adjusted in my truck, just for me.

Personally, I've found more use for them than not, I'm still a fan of them and shoot very well using them.

* For full disclosure, I was part of the b@st@rd regiment of the Marine Corps, so there's that.

and what regiment would that have been??

https://imgur.com/gallery/PfKCYNu

3rd Marines

Maybe red-headed step child would be better.

For me, it's two words; Muzzle. Strikes.

VFG is real nice too for when you’ve been putting a lot of fire on target and those hand guards get extra toasty.

Me, I like a bit meaty stick to hold onto. TangoDown MK46 grip for me.

In addition to the other benefits listed for use of the VFG is that it can help when shooting the carbine one handed in the event you are injured.

My new AR has the vertical grip.  I never used one.  I think I like when I hold it just like this!  Gives me control because I can still hold the rail.  Its more of a hand stop for me that I can use as a full vertical grip if I want.

Not to jack your thread.  Can you "zero sights" with the vertical grip on using sandbags?  Or should I take it off that pop it back on?

I prefer angled...but I can get a c-grip on a VFG as well with the bottom two fingers anchored against the VFG.  If I'm going to be out and about with the rifle walking around at the ranch, yes I prefer a VFG because like was said earlier, it is way more comfortable to carry/hold all day.

This is the way.

This...I actually got into shorty foregrips not from the military (had a bipod so didn't bother with a vfg) but actually hog hunting at night. A rifle with a laser, thermal, suppressor, and a light is heavy, and it'll tweak your wrist in short order trying to carry it with your support hand canted. You could grip the magwell but there is a lot of weight out front.

Ok, here's an odd one for yoos guys. Anyone here have any experience with one of these?
Attached File

Reviving this thread...

I don’t particularly like a grip without a light, but I used a Surefire M900 with a Malkoff LED upgrade to bring it up to current lumen output.  Pretty old school at this point but it was typical surefire bulletproof quality (OK we did break about 1/4 of the ones we had...) and the upgrade made it a decent light again.    

I agree with the guy who posted in 2017- the vertical grip goes closer to the magwell the closer my engagement distance and helps me in short distance use with multiple targets.  I put it far enough back so I had clearance for my thumb, but often just wrap the hand around the grip without the thumb going behind.

Not personally a fan of the long C clamp grip anyhow, so if I am not using a vertical grip I likely use a fairly far back grip on the handguard, quite often just wrapping my hand around the front of the lower.  

Just for carrying all day, the vertical grip helps.

And if you need to smash out a car window, or muzzle punch some problem person who doesn’t rate a bullet yet, that vertical grip can help you drive the rifle forward with more force than you might otherwise have, and control it better while retrieving it.  Having done both a few times, that reason alone is maybe worth having it for me.  

Having two points to pivot the gun on can come in handy sometimes also when using the weapon light to check deep corners or hard to access areas.  Doing a lot of building searches, this was pretty useful.  


Just the things I noticed having used one for a long time.  I could use one or not, they have some advantages in some ways at times.      Overall for what I was doing I think it was a big plus.  Might not be for other uses.

All good advice here. Well done.

I overswing with a VFG and it gets caught on everything. All I use is a hand stop long enough for one finger (top of photo.) It's thin and goes between my index and middle fingers. This position, between fingers, allows me to push or pull the weapon, and my hand is indexed for switches/buttons.

Wearing gloves is certainly needed for rapid fire.