Posted: 3/14/2014 12:17:55 PM EDT
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So I'm going to take my first shooting class since I left LE almost 10 years ago. It will be a two day class and will concentrate on getting multiple hits on target fast all within 100 yards. 1200 rounds in two 8 hour days.
I'm taking two carbines set up exactly the same and want the opinion of other members that have taken similar training courses. Colt 6920 with an FSP rail, PMags and an Aimpoint Pro and a VTAC padded sling with a Tri-Glide I have micros but I was thinking the larger tube of the Pro will help me get on target faster. We need some sort of capacity to carry an extra carbine and pistol mag. Since I'm a civilian I'm certainly not planning to show up with a plate carrier so I elected to get a Costa Leg Rig. So I'm going to show up with: Carbine + a backup Tons of spare mags P226 with tons of mags Costa Leg Rig Camelback Knee & elbow pads Gloves Spare batteries Can you think of anything else I might want to bring? 
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My philosophy is to follow the KISS principle. For carbine classes I usually wear a decent gun belt with 2 AR mag holders and a single pistol mag holder. Pistol is carried in a quality holster with retention strong side on belt. Knee and elbow pads depend on the type of class. If its a class involving shooting from the ground then yes.
In most carbine classes the pistol is a secondary weapon and will be used for transition drills and the like so you shouldn't need more than one mag in the gun and one on the belt. I usually wear tactical pants and sometimes will store and extra rifle or pistol mags in my pocket. Train as close as possible to how you think you would carry in an actual real life situation. If it's SHTF, you might wear a vest or plate carrier. I will say this; shooting with carriers or armor is much different than shooting without it. I wouldn't worry about being a civilian and wearing a rig in class. Lots of guys have worn them in classes I've taken. Unless your in a high speed class, you won't need it. I always bring backup guns in the event of a failure. You don't want to be "that guy" that holds up everything because your equipment doesn't work or fails. Simple guns and equipment are lighter, easier to manipulate, less to go wrong, fewer sharp edges, etc. It's always the guys that show up with guns and lots of accessories that have problems. That's my two cents worth of free advice. Gloves might come in handy, bring band aids just in case. I have often blistered a finger or two. |
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I took the week long SIG patrol rifle instructor class last NOV:
Can you hear voice commands with your hearing protection? It’s a PITA to have to change/manipulate your hearing protection during the class. I used cheap foam plugs with electronic muffs turned up which allows me to hear verbal commands while having adequate hearing protection when shooting close to other shooters. I used and improvised battle belt; basically an “instructor belt” with a dump pouch centered on the back, 2 pistol mag pouches and 2 rifle mag pouches, pistol on the strong side. I will be using a full battle belt setup for future classes as it distributes the weight. Looks like your sling is single point? We had to move and climb a big person jungle gym (area 51) with loaded slung weapons so the ability to have your rifle tight to the body and high confidence in the strength of you sling and mounts was paramont. Does your sling set up to allow you to switch shoulders easily? Mark you mags, I used small pieces of paper with last name covered with clear packing tape. Get a dump pouch, you will thank me. Have fun. |
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Definitely get plates and a carrier. If you are planning on training with a carbine, then you should plan on being shot AT with a carbine. Just because you're a civilian doesn't mean it should be easier to kill you. I agree. plates can cost around the same as BUIS and so many go with out, IMO they are WAY more necessary than BUIS. |
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I agree. plates can cost around the same as BUIS and so many go with out, IMO they are WAY more necessary than BUIS. Quoted:
Quoted:
Definitely get plates and a carrier. If you are planning on training with a carbine, then you should plan on being shot AT with a carbine. Just because you're a civilian doesn't mean it should be easier to kill you. I agree. plates can cost around the same as BUIS and so many go with out, IMO they are WAY more necessary than BUIS. Honestly a lot of people dont understand you can still shoot w/o BUISs. Youre taking a carbine class or any class for that matter you should be adjusted where you would aim. These are just my $0.02 
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Sunscreen is an absolute! Dump pouch comes in real handy.
I would strip off that light if your not doing a night shoot. Lighter is better in my opinion Stay hydrated I like to set my ammo up on stripper clips prior to class, makes life a ton easier. Whatever you run that takes batteries make sure you have spares for all of it. Never fail, whatever battery you don't have a spare for will fail. Basic tool kit. Just in case. |
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I would strip off that light if your not doing a night shoot. Lighter is better in my opinion. While lighter is better, I strongly disagree with stripping the light off. I want the student to be used to where the light is, to have the light activation method (cap or pressure pad) available for the every-day type shooting that one does, whether it be plinking, hunting, training, or defensive use. I want that light position to be so natural that when it comes time to use it, you're using the same grip, the same thumb location, everything is right there. I don't want someone having a forearm grip they use during the day, and a separate grip they shift to at night. That's part of keeping it simple as well. Bring a smaller Aimpoint with. If you want, try it. While the larger tube of the Pro gives the impression that you'll pick something up with the larger tube, in reality it's not magnified, so you're not going to deal with the eye relief issues of a magnified optic. You can play with the positioning of the smaller Aimpoint by moving it closer to your eye or forward to the end of the receiver. It doesn't have to be placed all the way forward if you're not planning on using a magnifier or night vision. |
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I agree. plates can cost around the same as BUIS and so many go with out, IMO they are WAY more necessary than BUIS. Quoted:
Quoted:
Definitely get plates and a carrier. If you are planning on training with a carbine, then you should plan on being shot AT with a carbine. Just because you're a civilian doesn't mean it should be easier to kill you. I agree. plates can cost around the same as BUIS and so many go with out, IMO they are WAY more necessary than BUIS. I'm glad to hear those opinions. |
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I'm glad to hear those opinions. Quoted:
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Definitely get plates and a carrier. If you are planning on training with a carbine, then you should plan on being shot AT with a carbine. Just because you're a civilian doesn't mean it should be easier to kill you. I agree. plates can cost around the same as BUIS and so many go with out, IMO they are WAY more necessary than BUIS. I'm glad to hear those opinions. Especially when new people are learning to move and shoot, well, shit happens. Armor is worth it. |
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When I'm teaching, or taking, a carbine course, I run my Daniel Defense M4 (the one that's called a V1 nowadays). It's topped with an Aimpoint Micro T1 in a GG&G mount, RRA 2-stage NM trigger, Vortex FS, and a Surefire X-300 at the 12 o'clock.
I get asked a lot about what rig and components I run when Instructing, specifically Carbine (AR or AK) or Shotgun. I thought I'd lay everything out, label it and go over it. The rig is modular. The only thing that stays the same from course to course is the belt (inner and outer), the Safariland holster platform and the Rolly Polly. Everything else easily removes and attaches. The holsters snap into a plate on the rig.......they're the easiest part of the entire system to switch out. I usually run a vest with IIIA armor in it. If I need more than 3 Carbine mags (1 in the weapon, 2 on the belt), I have a carrier that fastens to the front of my vest and carries an additional 4 magazines. 1a: Jones Tactical outer belt, with Cobra buckle 1b: Jones Tactical inner belt 2: Maxpedition Rolly Polly, large. I tried the medium, but found it sometimes difficult to get a mag in there while shootin' n' scootin'. Also, as an Instructor, I'm always sticking stuff in there like PACT timers, courses of fire and other gear. 3: Safariland 6004-25 holster platform using the QLS (Quick Locking System) plate. This allows just about any Safariland holster to be mounted to this rig. I've always hated "drop leg" holsters, but this one drops just far enough to get below vests and/or armor, but it's still mounted on the hip, not the leg. Super stable and secure, yet very quick. 4a: Safariland 6377 holster with QLS attachment, Beretta 92 4b: Safariland 6377 holster with QLS attachment, SIG P229 4c: Safariland 6377 holster with QLS attachment, Gov't model 1911 5: Safariland kydex Teklok pouches, AR15 6: Blade Tech Teklok pouches, AK 7: Ready Tactical kydex mag pouches, Beretta 92 8: Talon Tactical kydex mag pouches, 1911 9: Ready Tactical kydex mag pouches, SIG P229 10: California Competition works shotshell caddy 11: Safariland SxS shotshell holder. I usually put shotshells in the California CompWorks caddies and slugs in the SxS's. 
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Great thread. I too am looking to do a class and wonder if a PC will be necessary. I'm thinking of getting a chest rig and wearing a hydration carrier just to minimize my profile and weight. On the other hand, wearing a PC with armor makes a lot of sense too. I've been told to skip the PC on your first class and get used to everything and on the second class, add the PC which is likely how you would be fighting with a long gun anyways. crawl walk run kinda thing, even with your gear |
| Never skip a PC, are you even hearing yourself? You have a rifle, and so does everyone else, you think its impossible for a NG to happen? That in addition to training to fight means you should have some survivability built into your setup. no armor = punk ass going down easy |
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You can always buy training plates from team Wendy or a reputable company to simulate proper weight. Not airsoft stuff, real training plates. I plan on doing that for a bit if I cannot afford the plates right away. That way, I still have the train as you fight method.
Try to stick with a 3 mag front. I realize just from doing a prone exercise with a double stack mag, it raised my body up. Single stack didn't. Add 1-2 reloads on right and left side so you can have ammo if you're prone or crouched/ in a weird position. |
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A dump pouch like the rolly polly is invaluable when training. Sunscreen, bug spray, first aid kit, snacks, hydration, good eye pro, electronic muffs, and a small note pad will help you get the most out of the class by keeping you comfortable. I would wait on buying a plate carrier until you are sure how you want to run the gun and the options that are available to work with your body. If you are not ever going to use it then there is no point wasting money on it. A good training instructor will typically save you money by steering you in the direction of what you need rather than what you think you need based upon the opinions of others who have little to no knowledge about you.
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Def get a hydration carrier. Ebay has some good quality (not great) inexpensive chest rigs and hydration carriers you can try out that you may like more than the thigh rig. I run a simple chest rig that the Navy use to issue. It holds 8 AR mags and has 2 pistol mag pouches strapped to it that I added. It is lite weight and keeps everything right up in your workspace. Worth a try if you are new to spare ammo options. Your rifle looks solid. Don't listen to that guy about taking your light off.
With that amount of rounds shot through a short period of time it would be a great idea to put blue colored thread lock on everything that has a bolt/screw/nut/thread on your rifle. Things will come loose. |