Posted: 5/11/2010 8:25:26 AM EDT
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So, I've been interested in getting into competitive shooting as of late. What I have is an AR with a 16" midlength BCM upper with LMT BCG, and an all-milspec lower that I put together (Daniel
Defense lower receiver, Stag lpk, Magpul enhanced pistol grip, Magpul CTR stock). Also got some troy freefloat rails for what it's worth. Looking into some of the NRA highpower rifle competitions, I noticed there were a couple different categories: service rifle and match rifle. From what I understand, if I wanted to get involved in the service rifle competition, I'd need to basically replace my upper with a regulation service rifle upper and replace my CTR with a standard fixed stock. Personally, this sounds like a fun way to compete. However, I also like the idea of basically doing whatever I want to my rifle to make it more accurate, which would put me in the match category. My question to you all is this: Is my AR capable of competing as a match rifle if given the appropriate (reasonable) modifications? If so, what upper would be great for achieving a higher level of accuracy? What other suggestions would you have? I know I can go the service rifle route since the AR-15 naturally caters to that approach, but I'd just like to know what options I have. Thanks! Obligatory Pic: http://www.bitstomp.com/ar15.jpg |
| You can start by getting a RRA Match upper, either A2 or A4...comes with heavy stainless 1 in 8 twist, free float tube under factory handguards, ect. you can specify 1/4 x 1/4 or half inch increments on the hooded sights, etc. I've got a match RRA...I don't think I'll ever be able to outshoot its capability. Shrps74 |
| I just finished building one of those on a spikes lower. Man it is a sweet rifle I just got to run it out to 325-250m and had some fun. Currently I only have about 120 rounds through it so I am still breaking it in. Next range I am pushing it to 400 to 500 then I have to find a range to go to 600 the land I shoot on restricts me. |
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Except for a 3-gun style of competition, completely scrub your mind of any ideas of competing with that rifle. With the ammount of work you'd have to do to it and the ammount of parts you'd have to buy, you might as well pay the extra $100 for a lower and have two complete rifles.
If you want to start out in rifle competition, get a Savage with peep sights and shoot smallbore. Alternatively, get a long-barreled Buckmark or Ruger and shoot Bullseye pistol. The S&W 22A is a good choice, too. It's not rifle competition, but it's competition and you'll get a feel for it and meet other shooters. Pistol also has an advantage of requiring no other gear but a pistol, ammo, eyes and ears. If you find a local league and call them up, you can probably borrow someone else's spare pistol. If I were you, I'd do that first and see where it goes. |
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Quoted:
Except for a 3-gun style of competition, completely scrub your mind of any ideas of competing with that rifle. With the ammount of work you'd have to do to it and the ammount of parts you'd have to buy, you might as well pay the extra $100 for a lower and have two complete rifles. . +1 Start with a totally new gun. Spike's lower with an A2 stock and a good trigger, then an upper like the ones mentioned above. I'm a fan of the Bushmaster 1/7 20" chrome-lined barrel, but you might want to look at Superior Barrels or RRA for something a bit more accurate. |
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You would be surprised at how accurate Service Rifles are. They may look stock but they're not. Under the handguard is a freefloat tube to take the stress of the sling off the front sight base and barrel. The stock rear sight has 1 moa adjustments and the match rear sightes are 1/2 or 1/4 moa. Triggers are definitely better than stock.
You could shoot your rifle in High Power but you would have to shoot it in the Match Rifle category. That would be a way for you to try it without putting any money out to either convert your rifle or buy another and all the associated gear. Marty |
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For Service Rifle, get the RRA NM rifle. If you want to stay with the AR-15 platform for a Highpower Gun, consider the 6mm AR (or 6mm AR Turbo). http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek068.html |
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Thanks for the input guys. If I'm going to be completely rebuilding an AR for match shooting, should I really bother going with an AR? Granted, this is an AR forum, so I guess I should expect a little bias.  Yes,, stay with the AR platform. Almost no one runs M1A or Garand anymore. The military teams switched at least ten years ago. As others have said, what you currently have won't really work. Maybe for a local match or two so you can get a taste of it but that's about it. Most of the major AR players build a National Match rig. 20" HB, float tube, match trigger and sights. Figure a grand, or a bit more. Shooting coat, spotting scope, matt, sling. Reloading is not an absolute, but most will go this route. Black Hills makes about the best match ammo out there, not cheap nor easy to find. I think the last 500 round case price (for 75 grainers) was just short of $500. Prvi makes a decent round for about half that. Starting from scratch the entry price for this game can be daunting. Plus finding matches to shoot in can be hit or miss depending on your location. It's a niche sport. It's had a bit of a resurgence in recent years; Camp Perry is running close to 1200 shooters for CMP week. The AR is probably the reason. It's much much easier and cheaper to keep a NM AR rig in top form compared to the earlier platforms. Also easier to shoot. This has also opened up the sport to more junior shooters and women shooters. Some of the junior shooters are frighteningly good. The California Junior team won the National Trophy Infantry Team match (the Rattle Battle) last year at Perry, beating the military teams for the first time in 100 years. There are two branches to consider: CMP Service Rifle and NRA Hi Power. Service rifle just as it sounds, shooting a rifle roughly like what the military uses, iron sights. Most new shooters tend to start there. NRA Hi Power has several different divisions, including a service rifle one. Course of fire is similar, however CMP does not allow sighters, NRA does. To play the CMP game you really need to know your equipment. Be aware of the time commitment. A decent sized hi power match is an all day affair. A big match (Perry for instance) can potentially go twelve hours. For 30 to 80 rounds, depending on the match. |
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Hey bicx, I was looking through some of the other threads and discovered a category you could compete with your current rifle. Tactical Class Thread
Marty |
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Quoted:
Hey bicx, I was looking through some of the other threads and discovered a category you could compete with your current rifle. Tactical Class Thread Marty Ah cool, didn't see that. Thanks! |
| I suggest going to a match and meeting the top shooters before buying anything. Many high power rifle shooters are happy to loan rifles to new shooters that show a serious interest. Your state shooting association may have junior program rifles to loan. That is how I started. I put my rifle together by ordering a stripped lower receiver and parts kit minus the trigger. It was assembled with a Geissele two-stage service rifle trigger, lead weights, and White Oak Armory upper receiver assembly. This rifle will hold the X-ring at every stage. |
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Quoted:
I suggest going to a match and meeting the top shooters before buying anything. Many high power rifle shooters are happy to loan rifles to new shooters that show a serious interest. Your state shooting association may have junior program rifles to loan. That is how I started. I put my rifle together by ordering a stripped lower receiver and parts kit minus the trigger. It was assembled with a Geissele two-stage service rifle trigger, lead weights, and White Oak Armory upper receiver assembly. This rifle will hold the X-ring at every stage. SOLID ADVICE given here! |
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In my opinion, Service rifle is the least expensive class in which to compete, as there are limitations to what you do (meaning: spend money on) to your rifle. Internal modifications for the most part are OK - such as free-floating the barrel and installing match 2-stage triggers (4-1/2 pounds trigger pull minimum) and 1/4-minute adjustable sights (that still have to look like the A2 sights, but that's about it.
In the Match Rifle class you will competing against the so-called "space guns" - on some of these the rear sight alone costs as much as my whole rifle! There are really only a few rifles in which you can compete in Service Rifle: 1903 Springfield U.S. rifle cal. .30 M1 (Garand) - and I believe that it has to be an "authentic" government-manufactured M1, a modern "Springfield Armory Inc. repro is not allowed. M14 (or M1A civilian equivalent) M16 (or AR-15) - has to be A2 configuration, or an A4 with A2 detachable carry handle. All have to compete with one of two slings, the G.I. web sling as was used on the late WWII M1, or the 1907 leather sling. I understand that the Camp Perry Small Arms firing School issues M16s with the nylon "silent" sling, but it's more difficult to rig those as a loop sling, and i have seen no one use one in Highpower. The M16/AR-15 rifle is the best/easiest to start with, as a "run-of-the-mill" AR will shoot as well as an "accurized" M1/M14, and furthermore will stay accurate. Wooden guns won't hold their bedding, as a rule. Also, there are two organizations that sponsor matches: the NRA and the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program). The NRA is a little more liberal (if you'll excuse the word) as to mods, as, for instance glass bedding you M1 or M14 is legal, as is using a hooded rear sight with a corrective lens in it. Both of these mods, I believe, are not legal in CMP matches. |
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Here you go tpelle:
From the NRA Rulebook: 3.1 Service Rifle - U.S. Rifle, Caliber .30 Ml or caliber 7.62 mm M1, as issued by the U.S. Armed Forces, or the same type and caliber of commercially manufactured rifle, having not less than 4 ½ pound trigger pull, with standard type stock and standard type leather or web sling. External alterations to the assembled arm will not be allowed. The application of synthetic coatings, which includes those containing powdered metal, to the interior of the stock to improve bedding is authorized provided the coating does not interfere with the function or operation of safety features. The front and rear sights must be United States Army design, but may vary in dimensions of rear sight aperture and front sight blade. The internal parts of the rifle may be specially fitted and include alterations that will improve the functioning and accuracy of the arm, provided such alterations in no way interfere with the proper functioning of the safety devices as manufactured. (A device consisting of a modified cartridge clip that is intended to permit single loading from the clip into the chamber during slow fire is considered an internal alteration to improve functioning and is permissible under this rule.) From the CMP Rulebook: 6.2.1 U.S. Rifl e, Caliber .30, M1 The rifl e must be a rifle that was issued by the U.S. Armed Forces or a commercial rifle of the same type and caliber. M1 rifles used in Service Rifle matches (Rule 8.0) may be chambered for either the .30-06 or 7.62mm cartridge. Marty |
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pppsssstttt..... don't tell him about coats and gloves and stools and spotting scopes..... or GOD FORBID reloading... lol.....
Seriously, there was some REALLY solid advice above. Go to a match nearby, be open about your "newness" and tell them you're interested in starting out. You'll be amazed at how helpful most anyone will be. Just buy a NM upper from someone and slap it on a lower that has a 2stage trigger. Then go shoot. Almost any good NM upper will outshoot you for awhile (remember the year that Camp Perry was won with a box stock RRA NM?) You could shoot your current weapon in 3 gun... but, talk about COST, you'ld have to go get 2 more guns, lol. Welcome to it, though... There is nothing quite like getting together with like minded folks at a match |