Posted: 9/8/2015 6:06:37 PM EDT
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Coming into NYS to hunt. I was told that I can lock the mag into the receiver (so I have to break it open to load) and I'll be OK w semi auto, collapsing stock, pistol grip, and threaded bbl w compensator.
Is this correct? |
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Coming into NYS to hunt. I was told that I can lock the mag into the receiver (so I have to break it open to load) and I'll be OK w semi auto, collapsing stock, pistol grip, and threaded bbl w compensator. Is this correct? Bring a bolt action, best advice you will get. |
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Under the theory that if it does not have a removable mag, it's not an "assault weapon", you should be technically legal.
The problem becomes: There is no current legal definition of a non removable mag, but there are a few dedicated lowers that meet the criteria. You might get stopped by someone who doesn't give a shit or know about the mag, and you will be on a very expensive legal journey. Your mag can't be standard capacity, must be 10 or less rounds, and this is a separate aspect of the unSAFE act. As mentioned, any AR style rifle is not a good choice for traveling to NY. Find a bolt gun or shotgun to bring. Better yet, keep out of NY and don't feed the beast with your hard earned dollars. Sorry dude, I really am. 
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this and yes if a rifle has a non detachable magazine and is a semi-auto it cannot be defined as an AW Quoted:
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5 round magazine for hunting. this and yes if a rifle has a non detachable magazine and is a semi-auto it cannot be defined as an AW Please elaborate on the legal definition of "non detachable magazine" as it pertains to the Safe Act. Until such time as it has been adjudicated in a Court of competent jurisdiction there is nothing but conjecture and supposition as to what will meet that definition. If you want to be the test case by all means fix a magazine in whatever fashion you believe is legally sufficient and present yourself to the Attorney General's office for arrest. Do not give bad advice to people from out of State who may face arrest and prosecution for following your faulty pronouncements. 
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Supposedly this has garnered the approval of the various downstate police agencies along with the top guy in person of the State Police. Magazine is held in place with a set screw that requires the fire control group to be removed to access, and there's no mag release button. Buying this just to come into NY to hunt however, might seem like a lot to deal with over just getting a bolt action. http://www.dark-storm.com/dsi-ds-15-stripped-fixed-magazine-lower-receiver-black.html |
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Quoted: Supposedly this has garnered the approval of the various downstate police agencies along with the top guy in person of the State Police. Magazine is held in place with a set screw that requires the fire control group to be removed to access, and there's no mag release button. Buying this just to come into NY to hunt however, might seem like a lot to deal with over just getting a bolt action. http://www.dark-storm.com/dsi-ds-15-stripped-fixed-magazine-lower-receiver-black.html Quoted: Supposedly this has garnered the approval of the various downstate police agencies along with the top guy in person of the State Police. Magazine is held in place with a set screw that requires the fire control group to be removed to access, and there's no mag release button. Buying this just to come into NY to hunt however, might seem like a lot to deal with over just getting a bolt action. http://www.dark-storm.com/dsi-ds-15-stripped-fixed-magazine-lower-receiver-black.html Quoted: Quoted: this and yes if a rifle has a non detachable magazine and is a semi-auto it cannot be defined as an AW Please elaborate on the legal definition of "non detachable magazine" as it pertains to the Safe Act. Until such time as it has been adjudicated in a Court of competent jurisdiction there is nothing but conjecture and supposition as to what will meet that definition. If you want to be the test case by all means fix a magazine in whatever fashion you believe is legally sufficient and present yourself to the Attorney General's office for arrest. Do not give bad advice to people from out of State who may face arrest and prosecution for following your faulty pronouncements. |
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Please elaborate on the legal definition of "non detachable magazine" as it pertains to the Safe Act. Until such time as it has been adjudicated in a Court of competent jurisdiction there is nothing but conjecture and supposition as to what will meet that definition. If you want to be the test case by all means fix a magazine in whatever fashion you believe is legally sufficient and present yourself to the Attorney General's office for arrest. Do not give bad advice to people from out of State who may face arrest and prosecution for following your faulty pronouncements.
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5 round magazine for hunting. this and yes if a rifle has a non detachable magazine and is a semi-auto it cannot be defined as an AW Please elaborate on the legal definition of "non detachable magazine" as it pertains to the Safe Act. Until such time as it has been adjudicated in a Court of competent jurisdiction there is nothing but conjecture and supposition as to what will meet that definition. If you want to be the test case by all means fix a magazine in whatever fashion you believe is legally sufficient and present yourself to the Attorney General's office for arrest. Do not give bad advice to people from out of State who may face arrest and prosecution for following your faulty pronouncements.
There is no definition...yet there are rifles sold every day with epoxies bullet buttons or bolted mags into the rifle OR heck the sks is avaliable at many local shops.. It is not a faulty pronouncement a rifle with a fixed magazine cannot be defined as an aw |
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There is no definition...yet there are rifles sold every day with epoxies bullet buttons or bolted mags into the rifle OR heck the sks is avaliable at many local shops.. It is not a faulty pronouncement a rifle with a fixed magazine cannot be defined as an aw That is all well and good but are the dealers going to pay your legal fees if some overzealous police officer arrests and a prosecutor looking to make a name for himself is willing to take it to trial? As you admitted, there is NO legal definition either by statute or case law on what constitutes a detachable magazine. Even if found not guilty after trial you would likely expend in excess of $10k defending such a prosecution. Telling people from out of State that they are good to go with a "non-detachable" magazine is irresponsible in the extreme particularly when you do not know where in NYS they plan to carry the weapon afield. Even the Encon law is a minefield for the unwary. My advice to the OP stands, bring a bolt gun or better yet stay out of NYS. |
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That is all well and good but are the dealers going to pay your legal fees if some overzealous police officer arrests and a prosecutor looking to make a name for himself is willing to take it to trial? As you admitted, there is NO legal definition either by statute or case law on what constitutes a detachable magazine. Even if found not guilty after trial you would likely expend in excess of $10k defending such a prosecution. Telling people from out of State that they are good to go with a "non-detachable" magazine is irresponsible in the extreme particularly when you do not know where in NYS they plan to carry the weapon afield. Even the Encon law is a minefield for the unwary. My advice to the OP stands, bring a bolt gun or better yet stay out of NYS. Quoted:
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There is no definition...yet there are rifles sold every day with epoxies bullet buttons or bolted mags into the rifle OR heck the sks is avaliable at many local shops.. It is not a faulty pronouncement a rifle with a fixed magazine cannot be defined as an aw That is all well and good but are the dealers going to pay your legal fees if some overzealous police officer arrests and a prosecutor looking to make a name for himself is willing to take it to trial? As you admitted, there is NO legal definition either by statute or case law on what constitutes a detachable magazine. Even if found not guilty after trial you would likely expend in excess of $10k defending such a prosecution. Telling people from out of State that they are good to go with a "non-detachable" magazine is irresponsible in the extreme particularly when you do not know where in NYS they plan to carry the weapon afield. Even the Encon law is a minefield for the unwary. My advice to the OP stands, bring a bolt gun or better yet stay out of NYS. it is absolutely not irresponsible. I gave them the definition. You may be arrested for anything at anytime and be forced to defend yourself. This is why we hear all the time about people being arrested who have LEOSA or lawfully trasporting firearms across a state(cough NJ). its a shitty world we live in. as seen in the law "(A) A SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLE THAT HAS AN ABILITY TO ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND HAS AT LEAST ONE OF THE FOLLOWING CHARACTERISTICS: (I) A FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK; (II) A PISTOL GRIP THAT PROTRUDES CONSPICUOUSLY BENEATH THE ACTION OF THE WEAPON; (III) A THUMBHOLE STOCK; (IV) A SECOND HANDGRIP OR A PROTRUDING GRIP THAT CAN BE HELD BY THE NON-TRIGGER HAND; (V) A BAYONET MOUNT; (VI) A FLASH SUPPRESSOR, MUZZLE BREAK, MUZZLE COMPENSATOR, OR THREADED BARREL DESIGNED TO ACCOMMODATE A FLASH SUPPRESSOR, MUZZLE BREAK, OR MUZZLE COMPENSATOR; (VII) A GRENADE LAUNCHER; OR" |
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Even what you quoted in bold doesn't mean much. EVERYTHING has the ability to accept a detachable magazine with enough effort.
The example I like is my 87 year old Remington model 8, it's semi automatic and has a fixed magazine. However at one time (70 years ago) there was an aftermarket removable large cap mag sold for it. So strictly speaking, it DOES have the ability to accept a detachable magazine. In reality, the chances of that happening are between slim and none, but that doesn't matter. We're talking about vagaries and poorly written law. Just the way they like em. |
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it is absolutely not irresponsible. I gave them the definition. You may be arrested for anything at anytime and be forced to defend yourself. This is why we hear all the time about people being arrested who have LEOSA or lawfully trasporting firearms across a state(cough NJ). its a shitty world we live in. as seen in the law "(A) A SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLE THAT HAS AN ABILITY TO ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND HAS AT LEAST ONE OF THE FOLLOWING CHARACTERISTICS: (I) A FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK; (II) A PISTOL GRIP THAT PROTRUDES CONSPICUOUSLY BENEATH THE ACTION OF THE WEAPON; (III) A THUMBHOLE STOCK; (IV) A SECOND HANDGRIP OR A PROTRUDING GRIP THAT CAN BE HELD BY THE NON-TRIGGER HAND; (V) A BAYONET MOUNT; (VI) A FLASH SUPPRESSOR, MUZZLE BREAK, MUZZLE COMPENSATOR, OR THREADED BARREL DESIGNED TO ACCOMMODATE A FLASH SUPPRESSOR, MUZZLE BREAK, OR MUZZLE COMPENSATOR; (VII) A GRENADE LAUNCHER; OR" Quoted:
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There is no definition...yet there are rifles sold every day with epoxies bullet buttons or bolted mags into the rifle OR heck the sks is avaliable at many local shops.. It is not a faulty pronouncement a rifle with a fixed magazine cannot be defined as an aw That is all well and good but are the dealers going to pay your legal fees if some overzealous police officer arrests and a prosecutor looking to make a name for himself is willing to take it to trial? As you admitted, there is NO legal definition either by statute or case law on what constitutes a detachable magazine. Even if found not guilty after trial you would likely expend in excess of $10k defending such a prosecution. Telling people from out of State that they are good to go with a "non-detachable" magazine is irresponsible in the extreme particularly when you do not know where in NYS they plan to carry the weapon afield. Even the Encon law is a minefield for the unwary. My advice to the OP stands, bring a bolt gun or better yet stay out of NYS. it is absolutely not irresponsible. I gave them the definition. You may be arrested for anything at anytime and be forced to defend yourself. This is why we hear all the time about people being arrested who have LEOSA or lawfully trasporting firearms across a state(cough NJ). its a shitty world we live in. as seen in the law "(A) A SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLE THAT HAS AN ABILITY TO ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND HAS AT LEAST ONE OF THE FOLLOWING CHARACTERISTICS: (I) A FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK; (II) A PISTOL GRIP THAT PROTRUDES CONSPICUOUSLY BENEATH THE ACTION OF THE WEAPON; (III) A THUMBHOLE STOCK; (IV) A SECOND HANDGRIP OR A PROTRUDING GRIP THAT CAN BE HELD BY THE NON-TRIGGER HAND; (V) A BAYONET MOUNT; (VI) A FLASH SUPPRESSOR, MUZZLE BREAK, MUZZLE COMPENSATOR, OR THREADED BARREL DESIGNED TO ACCOMMODATE A FLASH SUPPRESSOR, MUZZLE BREAK, OR MUZZLE COMPENSATOR; (VII) A GRENADE LAUNCHER; OR" Get back to me when your test case is past the appeal period. Until there is a test case (or better yet a series of decisions) on "ability to accept detachable magazine" you have no legal leg to stand on giving advice that is in all likelihood faulty. |
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The unofficial opinion of the State Police would bear some weight but is not the final word on legality. That power ultimately rests with the Courts. Quoted:
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So the NY-10 was a waste of money? The unofficial opinion of the State Police would bear some weight but is not the final word on legality. That power ultimately rests with the Courts. My local permit office registered mine with no problem, be interesting to see what would happen if a cop wanted to be an asshole about it |
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That is all well and good but are the dealers going to pay your legal fees if some overzealous police officer arrests and a prosecutor looking to make a name for himself is willing to take it to trial? As you admitted, there is NO legal definition either by statute or case law on what constitutes a detachable magazine. Even if found not guilty after trial you would likely expend in excess of $10k defending such a prosecution. Telling people from out of State that they are good to go with a "non-detachable" magazine is irresponsible in the extreme particularly when you do not know where in NYS they plan to carry the weapon afield. Even the Encon law is a minefield for the unwary. My advice to the OP stands, bring a bolt gun or better yet stay out of NYS. Quoted:
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There is no definition...yet there are rifles sold every day with epoxies bullet buttons or bolted mags into the rifle OR heck the sks is avaliable at many local shops.. It is not a faulty pronouncement a rifle with a fixed magazine cannot be defined as an aw That is all well and good but are the dealers going to pay your legal fees if some overzealous police officer arrests and a prosecutor looking to make a name for himself is willing to take it to trial? As you admitted, there is NO legal definition either by statute or case law on what constitutes a detachable magazine. Even if found not guilty after trial you would likely expend in excess of $10k defending such a prosecution. Telling people from out of State that they are good to go with a "non-detachable" magazine is irresponsible in the extreme particularly when you do not know where in NYS they plan to carry the weapon afield. Even the Encon law is a minefield for the unwary. My advice to the OP stands, bring a bolt gun or better yet stay out of NYS. Any reversible fixed mag mod will likely be reversed before your rifle is laid out as State Exhibit A. |
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There was an individual arrested with an SKS in the traditional configuration and the aw charge was thrown out as it had a non detachable magazinr Do you have a citation for the case? Did it go to trial or was this a dismissal before trial. Details are critical in evaluating the usefulness of this information. If a single prosecutor's office elected to withdraw the charges that action is not binding on other prosecutorial offices and carries no weight as a legal precedent. I am not trying to be adversarial here but I am a practicing attorney of 30 years experience and do not want to see forum members jammed up relying on internet advice that could be incorrect. |
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There was an individual arrested with an SKS in the traditional configuration and the aw charge was thrown out as it had a non detachable magazinr SKS has an internal, non-detachable magazine in factory configuration. If he had an aftermarket duckbill detachable magazine screwed into place and the case was thrown out, that would be different. |
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Hey guys, sorry to stir the pot with my inquiry. I appreciate all the info from everyone! Next question. I have a Browning BAR II that I'm considering taking but it has a threaded barrel. Is that good to go considering the threaded barrel? detachable box magazine and one AW feature (threaded barrel) makes it an AW. Sorry. |
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detachable box magazine and one AW feature (threaded barrel) makes it an AW. Sorry. Quoted:
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Hey guys, sorry to stir the pot with my inquiry. I appreciate all the info from everyone! Next question. I have a Browning BAR II that I'm considering taking but it has a threaded barrel. Is that good to go considering the threaded barrel? detachable box magazine and one AW feature (threaded barrel) makes it an AW. Sorry. Damn it. Might have to cancel this trip after all. I really appreciate all the info guys! |
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Do you have a citation for the case? Did it go to trial or was this a dismissal before trial. Details are critical in evaluating the usefulness of this information. If a single prosecutor's office elected to withdraw the charges that action is not binding on other prosecutorial offices and carries no weight as a legal precedent. I am not trying to be adversarial here but I am a practicing attorney of 30 years experience and do not want to see forum members jammed up relying on internet advice that could be incorrect. Quoted:
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There was an individual arrested with an SKS in the traditional configuration and the aw charge was thrown out as it had a non detachable magazinr Do you have a citation for the case? Did it go to trial or was this a dismissal before trial. Details are critical in evaluating the usefulness of this information. If a single prosecutor's office elected to withdraw the charges that action is not binding on other prosecutorial offices and carries no weight as a legal precedent. I am not trying to be adversarial here but I am a practicing attorney of 30 years experience and do not want to see forum members jammed up relying on internet advice that could be incorrect. ill look it up i believe it was an arrest and then the DA took a look at the rifle and chose not to move forward. your right no case law to cite there. NYS is frustrating. Hell even the ATF will give us definitions lol |
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Supposedly this has garnered the approval of the various downstate police agencies along with the top guy in person of the State Police. Magazine is held in place with a set screw that requires the fire control group to be removed to access, and there's no mag release button. Buying this just to come into NY to hunt however, might seem like a lot to deal with over just getting a bolt action. http://www.dark-storm.com/dsi-ds-15-stripped-fixed-magazine-lower-receiver-black.html And you have it on official letterhead from the superintendant of the the NY State Police stating this? If not, its not worth even repeating on the internet. Same as saying "I have a friend who knows a state trooper who said it was all legal and legit..." |
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good luck with that. everyone of those dealers thought everything was fine and legal too... right up to the point the cops walked in and arrested them. Hundreds of thousands of dollars later, they were proven right, but do you have that kind of money to prove yourself right?
And Rice isn't the DA in Nassau anymore, shes onto bigger and better places, screwing us in congress now. |
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And you have it on official letterhead from the superintendant of the the NY State Police stating this? If not, its not worth even repeating on the internet. Same as saying "I have a friend who knows a state trooper who said it was all legal and legit..." Quoted:
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Supposedly this has garnered the approval of the various downstate police agencies along with the top guy in person of the State Police. Magazine is held in place with a set screw that requires the fire control group to be removed to access, and there's no mag release button. Buying this just to come into NY to hunt however, might seem like a lot to deal with over just getting a bolt action. http://www.dark-storm.com/dsi-ds-15-stripped-fixed-magazine-lower-receiver-black.html And you have it on official letterhead from the superintendant of the the NY State Police stating this? If not, its not worth even repeating on the internet. Same as saying "I have a friend who knows a state trooper who said it was all legal and legit..." Even letterhead won't mean much. State Police's opinions are not the functional equivalent of the ATF's opinions. |
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Get back to me when your test case is past the appeal period. Until there is a test case (or better yet a series of decisions) on "ability to accept detachable magazine" you have no legal leg to stand on giving advice that is in all likelihood faulty. During the 13 years of the old weapons ban, there was little judicial guidance or "test cases" pertaining to assault weapon features. I doubt we will ever get any test cases anytime soon. These questions will probably remain unanswered. |
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During the 13 years of the old weapons ban, there was little judicial guidance or "test cases" pertaining to assault weapon features. I doubt we will ever get any test cases anytime soon. These questions will probably remain unanswered. Quoted:
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Get back to me when your test case is past the appeal period. Until there is a test case (or better yet a series of decisions) on "ability to accept detachable magazine" you have no legal leg to stand on giving advice that is in all likelihood faulty. During the 13 years of the old weapons ban, there was little judicial guidance or "test cases" pertaining to assault weapon features. I doubt we will ever get any test cases anytime soon. These questions will probably remain unanswered. Which is exactly what Cumhole and Bloombutt intended.
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During the 13 years of the old weapons ban, there was little judicial guidance or "test cases" pertaining to assault weapon features. I doubt we will ever get any test cases anytime soon. These questions will probably remain unanswered. Quoted:
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Get back to me when your test case is past the appeal period. Until there is a test case (or better yet a series of decisions) on "ability to accept detachable magazine" you have no legal leg to stand on giving advice that is in all likelihood faulty. During the 13 years of the old weapons ban, there was little judicial guidance or "test cases" pertaining to assault weapon features. I doubt we will ever get any test cases anytime soon. These questions will probably remain unanswered. Maybe there were no test cases because law enforcement didn't care much unless the "aw" was owned by someone who committed a bigger crime? |
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Government will never give you the go ahead with anything that flys in the face of their Laws, especially gun laws.
They can take the interpretation (correct or not) and apply it to you with that "because I said so" attitude that requires a good deal of resource to refute. 
Remember: No matter how much patronizing they do with "I respect the second Amendment and Hunters" they do not want you having any guns especially ones that'll fire more than one shot without the need of a ram-rod.
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