Posted: 3/21/2013 10:58:51 AM EDT
| I was out in the middle of nowhere today, on a desolate rd. I pull up to 2 NYSP cars and the officers standing in the rd..I stop they ask me where I'm going.I tell them just around the corner to Mrs. so and so's house to do a repair on her washer..One of them knows her..They can see the computer generated service order in my hand as I read them her name..They then tell me of a burglary last night just down the rd. I guess in recent days or weeks there have been several in the area..Then they want to see my drivers license...I ask them for what, and they tell me again about the recent crime..I reluctantly give it to one of them and he gives it to the other and he starts calling it in..I asked what are you doing that for, and tell him I'm preety sure they cant just run my license for no reason..He tells me i have to give him my license any time I'm driving and they ask me for it and they can run it..Is that true???As I left I told him I was sure they cant just do that..I now feel like I'm on some state police crime watch list..CAN THEY DO THAT??? |
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I was out in the middle of nowhere today, on a desolate rd. I pull up to 2 NYSP cars and the officers standing in the rd..I stop they ask me where I'm going.I tell them just around the corner to Mrs. so and so's house to do a repair on her washer..One of them knows her..They can see the computer generated service order in my hand as I read them her name..They then tell me of a burglary last night just down the rd. I guess in recent days or weeks there have been several in the area..Then they want to see my drivers license...I ask them for what, and they tell me again about the recent crime..I reluctantly give it to one of them and he gives it to the other and he starts calling it in..I asked what are you doing that for, and tell him I'm preety sure they cant just run my license for no reason..He tells me i have to give him my license any time I'm driving and they ask me for it and they can run it..Is that true???As I left I told him I was sure they cant just do that..I now feel like I'm on some state police crime watch list..CAN THEY DO THAT??? This is too basic. Yes, you have to give them your drivers license and they don't need you permission to run a check on it. |
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Quoted: I was out in the middle of nowhere today, on a desolate rd. I pull up to 2 NYSP cars and the officers standing in the rd..I stop they ask me where I'm going.I tell them just around the corner to Mrs. so and so's house to do a repair on her washer..One of them knows her..They can see the computer generated service order in my hand as I read them her name..They then tell me of a burglary last night just down the rd. I guess in recent days or weeks there have been several in the area..Then they want to see my drivers license...I ask them for what, and they tell me again about the recent crime..I reluctantly give it to one of them and he gives it to the other and he starts calling it in..I asked what are you doing that for, and tell him I'm preety sure they cant just run my license for no reason..He tells me i have to give him my license any time I'm driving and they ask me for it and they can run it..Is that true???As I left I told him I was sure they cant just do that..I now feel like I'm on some state police crime watch list..CAN THEY DO THAT??? If you are stopped while operating a motor vehicle that is registered with the state (ie, "plates") , and you are asked to provide proof of licensing, insurance and registration, you are required to do so. |
| Wait, so you are trying to say they don't need a reason to harass you? I mean, i know this is Ny but I was always under the assumption that police can not harrass you unjustly. They can't stop every car because of a burglary. I feel like this is a mild violation of your right against unreasonable search. I remember from a college course that search extends to the examination of your documents by LE without reason. Its the same reason the immigrants in AZ got all bent out of shape that police could ask about their immigration status. |
| I know I know you have nothing to hide if your innocent..The one that stays at my window sees my daughters bracelet in console and says is that a pandora bracelet..I dont know I just felt violated... maybe for no reason...The older I get the more these things are bothering me.. |
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Quoted: Wait, so you are trying to say they don't need a reason to harass you? I mean, i know this is Ny but I was always under the assumption that police can not harrass you unjustly. They can't stop every car because of a burglary. I feel like this is a mild violation of your right against unreasonable search. I remember from a college course that search extends to the examination of your documents by LE without reason. Its the same reason the immigrants in AZ got all bent out of shape that police could ask about their immigration status. Remember that driving on roads your tax dollars (or your grandpa's) paid for is a privilege, not a right. There are thresholds of activity the police have to constrain themselves to. Now think about how offensive and ominous NYC's "stop and frisk" is, if it were applied in the same manner to automobiles. |
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Wait, so you are trying to say they don't need a reason to harass you? I mean, i know this is Ny but I was always under the assumption that police can not harrass you unjustly. They can't stop every car because of a burglary. I feel like this is a mild violation of your right against unreasonable search. I remember from a college course that search extends to the examination of your documents by LE without reason. Its the same reason the immigrants in AZ got all bent out of shape that police could ask about their immigration status. Its not an unreasonable search and yes, they are certainly within the law to set up a checkpoint in the manner described. The courts have dictated certain things about checkpoints and how they are set up, but the OPs description is too basic to weigh in on that too much. But the basic iea of a checkpoint? Nothing unlawful about that. |
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I mean, I know this is NY but I was always under the assumption that police can not harass you unjustly. They can, they're just not supposed to. Quoted:
Now think about how offensive and ominous NYC's "stop and frisk" is, if it were applied in the same manner to automobiles. I find that most people who mention NYPD's "Stop and Frisk" policy have no idea what it actually is. |
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As long as they were stopping everyone they were probably okay. But stopping everyone driving down a road because of a burglary the night before or even because there are a string of burglaries in the area? Maybe but it sounds "off" If one was given that answer he were to call the police out on it, "That's bolshit," is there any sanction against that in New York? Could profanity or arguing with a cop be considered verbal assault of an officer or something of that sort? |
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As long as they were stopping everyone they were probably okay. But stopping everyone driving down a road because of a burglary the night before or even because there are a string of burglaries in the area? Maybe but it sounds "off" If one was given that answer he were to call the police out on it, "That's bolshit," is there any sanction against that in New York? Could profanity or arguing with a cop be considered verbal assault of an officer or something of that sort? Just profanity and arguing and no one else is around? No. Start refusing lawful requests and then you are gonna end up in trouble. Simply being rude to cops, while not usually productive, isn't illegal. |
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Not harassment. Cops just doing their job. if I were a LEO and there were a string of burglaries in a certain area, you bet your ass I would be profiling certain vehicles and types of people. any type of construction/service vehicles would be at the top of my list. I do know a few LEO's that actually look for certain construction vehicles at a certain time of day...they make DUI arrests quite frequently.
now harassment is what happened to me when I was younger, I had a town cop that had a hard on for me....well OK I was kind of wild and I can see that now. he would drive past my driveway several times a day, as soon as I would leave he would pull me over. On a few occasions he did catch me with expired inspection or a light out...it took me at 17Yrs old to go to the police station and file a formal complaint...the harassment stopped from him, but from then on it seemed like I got pulled over an awful lot by any of the town cops. |
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As long as they were stopping everyone they were probably okay. But stopping everyone driving down a road because of a burglary the night before or even because there are a string of burglaries in the area? Maybe but it sounds "off" If one was given that answer he were to call the police out on it, "That's bolshit," is there any sanction against that in New York? Could profanity or arguing with a cop be considered verbal assault of an officer or something of that sort? Just profanity and arguing and no one else is around? No. Start refusing lawful requests and then you are gonna end up in trouble. Simply being rude to cops, while not usually productive, isn't illegal. I didnt use profanity, I was respectfully disagreeing with them...They knew I was upset and I knew they were getting upset..I also knew who would loose so I complied, but still dont think its right..I felt like I was going through a checkpoint from one country to another..A few years ago, we had an armed burglary where I live ..The state police were out on the main rd they stopped cars, told them of the recent crime asked if we'd seen anything and that was it... |
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Not harassment. Cops just doing their job. if I were a LEO and there were a string of burglaries in a certain area, you bet your ass I would be profiling certain vehicles and types of people. any type of construction/service vehicles would be at the top of my list. I do know a few LEO's that actually look for certain construction vehicles at a certain time of day...they make DUI arrests quite frequently. now harassment is what happened to me when I was younger, I had a town cop that had a hard on for me....well OK I was kind of wild and I can see that now. he would drive past my driveway several times a day, as soon as I would leave he would pull me over. On a few occasions he did catch me with expired inspection or a light out...it took me at 17Yrs old to go to the police station and file a formal complaint...the harassment stopped from him, but from then on it seemed like I got pulled over an awful lot by any of the town cops. I have a brand new Toyota Tundra 4 door,with my kids are honor roll student bumper stickers on it..Track and baseball stickers on windows..In my 40's clean shaven short hair..Have never thought I looked like a criminal before..Felt like one yesterday.. |
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I know I know you have nothing to hide if your innocent..The one that stays at my window sees my daughters bracelet in console and says is that a pandora bracelet..I dont know I just felt violated... maybe for no reason...The older I get the more these things are bothering me.. They were trying to solve a crime. They asked for your driver license. They ran it. It's a state license that you signed up for and they checked it against a government data base. The bracelet question was just small talk, you know, the Trooper just trying to be nice. No one violated you. They didn't pull you out through the window, handcuff you, then tear apart your vehicle. |
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I have a brand new Toyota Tundra 4 door,with my kids are honor roll student bumper stickers on it..Track and baseball stickers on windows..In my 40's clean shaven short hair..Have never thought I looked like a criminal before..Felt like one yesterday.. What do you think criminals "look like"? Criminals look like everyone else out in society |
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I have a brand new Toyota Tundra 4 door, with my kids are honor roll student bumper stickers on it. Track and baseball stickers on windows..In my 40's clean shaven short hair..Have never thought I looked like a criminal before. Felt like one yesterday.. What do you think criminals "look like"? Criminals look like everyone else out in society According to my LE "training" it sounds like he looks just like a criminal. 
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I have a brand new Toyota Tundra 4 door,with my kids are honor roll student bumper stickers on it..Track and baseball stickers on windows..In my 40's clean shaven short hair..Have never thought I looked like a criminal before..Felt like one yesterday.. What do you think criminals "look like"? Well, I can take a guess... |
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See this is what bugs me the most. The whole "cops just doing their job" thing. I have this argument with my cousins (NYSP) like every Thanksgiving. That is total crap. You can not just stop someone and run their license just because you are looking for a thief. They have no basis for stopping you just because you happen to be driving down a road where one happened.
Let me give you some examples here. Alaska, Idaho, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Oregon, Rhode Island, Texas, Washington, Wisconsin, and Wyoming do not allow sobriety checkpoints at all because their state Supreme courts have found them to be the very definition of unlawful search with undue cause as well as a form of entrapment. Some of these states do not allow roadblocks of ANY kind unless there is deemed to be a violent threat to society on the loose (ie. escaped prisoner). The police in those states can not legally stop you just for the hell of it because the repercussions are very real for them. The same thing should go for the rest of the states, but in places like NY and CA there are obviously no visible repercussions for these forms of harassment. Now do not confuse me as some anti-cop type individual. I am high up on multiple civil service lists, and just biding my time, so its not like Im sitting here saying "Fuck the Police." What I am saying is that this whole "just doing their job" thing is bogus. Many police have a tendency to push their authority because they know they can. heres a link you all should read about a case involving a guy from WNY who had a police LT force his way into his home because he "he didn't need a warrant." This is on its way to the Supreme Court right now to give you an idea of what happens when police get too big of a head. Dont need no warrant |
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See this is what bugs me the most. The whole "cops just doing their job" thing. I have this argument with my cousins (NYSP) like every Thanksgiving. That is total crap. You can not just stop someone and run their license just because you are looking for a thief. They have no basis for stopping you just because you happen to be driving down a road where one happened. Your drivers license and your vehicle plates remain the property of the state. That information is not somehow confidential info that we cannot access while in the performance of our job, contrary to what you seem to think. Just because other states' courts have ruled on a given issue one way does not mean that NY agrees or follows those rulings |
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See this is what bugs me the most. The whole "cops just doing their job" thing. I have this argument with my cousins (NYSP) like every Thanksgiving. That is total crap. You can not just stop someone and run their license just because you are looking for a thief. They have no basis for stopping you just because you happen to be driving down a road where one happened. Your drivers license and your vehicle plates remain the property of the state. That information is not somehow confidential info that we cannot access while in the performance of our job, contrary to what you seem to think. Just because other states' courts have ruled on a given issue one way does not mean that NY agrees or follows those rulings I think we are misunderstanding each other. I am aware that they are property of the state. That DOES NOT, however give a member of the law enforcement community any right to jamb someone up just because. Can you pull over someone "just because?" That answer is no as far as I have been told. You need to have a reason, like a tail light out, crossing the yellow line, rolling the stop, etc. Otherwise anything you write can and will be thrown out if a good lawyer gets ahold of that case. My only real point of contention is that the OP stated he was just driving down the road following all pertinent rules of the rode. He is then stopped by two NYSP officers, and they decided that they need to run his info. On what grounds? Because they can? Because the feel like it? There was a burglary the night before... what does that have to do with the OP? Its just something that pisses me off to know end. When I got jammed up at a checkpoint like that the first thing I would do is be on the phone with one of my cousins and magically I'm on my way. It's not something I'm a fan of doing, and thank God it really doesn't happen to me that often. Like once in the last 4 years |
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My daughter got into a minor traffic accident on the parkway. I happened to be traveling on the same road, and I went to where she was and pulled over. There were two troopers there, taking the report (the other driver took off).
I ID'd myself as a retiree, and spent a few minutes BSing with them. Then I saw one of the Troopers checking out the reg/inspection on MY car. So I said: "Just can't help yourself" And he said: "No, force of habit" and laughed. That is just the way it is. |
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My daughter got into a minor traffic accident on the parkway. I happened to be traveling on the same road, and I went to where she was and pulled over. There were two troopers there, taking the report (the other driver took off). I ID'd myself as a retiree, and spent a few minutes BSing with them. Then I saw one of the Troopers checking out the reg/inspection on MY car. So I said: "Just can't help yourself" And he said: "No, force of habit" and laughed. That is just the way it is. My friend had to go to the trooper barracks on the Southern State Pkwy to see a trooper about an accident report. While she was there and I was waiting in the parking area a trooper came up to my car and asked for my DL and reg, which he then ran a check on. 
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My daughter got into a minor traffic accident on the parkway. I happened to be traveling on the same road, and I went to where she was and pulled over. There were two troopers there, taking the report (the other driver took off). I ID'd myself as a retiree, and spent a few minutes BSing with them. Then I saw one of the Troopers checking out the reg/inspection on MY car. So I said: "Just can't help yourself" And he said: "No, force of habit" and laughed. That is just the way it is. My friend had to go to the trooper barracks on the Southern State Pkwy to see a trooper about an accident report. While she was there and I was waiting in the parking area a trooper came up to my car and asked for my DL and reg, which he then ran a check on.
I can only assume one of two things. Either: A) This happened more than 20 years ago Or B) You sat there berating the glorified meter-maid because of his micro-penis, and then encouraged him to go out and do some real police work. |
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My friend had to go to the trooper barracks on the Southern State Pkwy to see a trooper about an accident report. While she was there and I was waiting in the parking area a trooper came up to my car and asked for my DL and reg, which he then ran a check on.
I can only assume one of two things. Either: A) This happened more than 20 years ago Nope, 2012 Or B) You sat there berating the glorified meter-maid because of his micro-penis, and then encouraged him to go out and do some real police work. Nope, gave it to him because I know what happens when you try to play roadside lawyer |
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Men of the "Grey Trousers".
Strange breed that one. (Many are true-believers) Know dozens that I'd gladly take a bullet for. Met dozens for whom I would not. Kinda like my job. 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays 12 more mondays............. |
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See this is what bugs me the most. The whole "cops just doing their job" thing. I have this argument with my cousins (NYSP) like every Thanksgiving. That is total crap. You can not just stop someone and run their license just because you are looking for a thief. They have no basis for stopping you just because you happen to be driving down a road where one happened. Let me give you some examples here. Alaska, Idaho, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Oregon, Rhode Island, Texas, Washington, Wisconsin, and Wyoming do not allow sobriety checkpoints at all because their state Supreme courts have found them to be the very definition of unlawful search with undue cause as well as a form of entrapment. Some of these states do not allow roadblocks of ANY kind unless there is deemed to be a violent threat to society on the loose (ie. escaped prisoner). The police in those states can not legally stop you just for the hell of it because the repercussions are very real for them. The same thing should go for the rest of the states, but in places like NY and CA there are obviously no visible repercussions for these forms of harassment. Now do not confuse me as some anti-cop type individual. I am high up on multiple civil service lists, and just biding my time, so its not like Im sitting here saying "Fuck the Police." What I am saying is that this whole "just doing their job" thing is bogus. Many police have a tendency to push their authority because they know they can. heres a link you all should read about a case involving a guy from WNY who had a police LT force his way into his home because he "he didn't need a warrant." This is on its way to the Supreme Court right now to give you an idea of what happens when police get too big of a head. Dont need no warrant 1) this is called a Pretext stop, completely legal investigative tool 2) The whole asking for ID at a barracks parking lot thing started when somebody tried to gun down a trooper in Albany County in the barracks parking lot. He had called and made like he was a victim looking to file a complaint against somebody but in reality was waiting for a trooper to respond so that he could kill him. Had a 12 ga. |
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2) The whole asking for ID at a barracks parking lot thing started when somebody tried to gun down a trooper in Albany County in the barracks parking lot. He had called and made like he was a victim looking to file a complaint against somebody but in reality was waiting for a trooper to respond so that he could kill him. Had a 12 ga. Funny part was, they called us and asked us to come down there about the report. |
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2) The whole asking for ID at a barracks parking lot thing started when somebody tried to gun down a trooper in Albany County in the barracks parking lot. He had called and made like he was a victim looking to file a complaint against somebody but in reality was waiting for a trooper to respond so that he could kill him. Had a 12 ga. Funny part was, they called us and asked us to come down there about the report. In God We Trust, everybody else gets file checked. |
| doesn't a pretext stop have to be based on the pretext that the individual has committed or plans to commit a crime? As far as everything I have ever read or been told about these types of stops s the the officer MUST have reason to believe that there person has or plans to act in an unlawful matter. If i'm wrong about this please direct me to where I can read the law that allows these without cause (No sarcasm intended, I really want to know!) |
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2) The whole asking for ID at a barracks parking lot thing started when somebody tried to gun down a trooper in Albany County in the barracks parking lot. He had called and made like he was a victim looking to file a complaint against somebody but in reality was waiting for a trooper to respond so that he could kill him. Had a 12 ga. Funny part was, they called us and asked us to come down there about the report. In God We Trust, everybody else gets file checked.
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doesn't a pretext stop have to be based on the pretext that the individual has committed or plans to commit a crime? As far as everything I have ever read or been told about these types of stops s the the officer MUST have reason to believe that there person has or plans to act in an unlawful matter. If i'm wrong about this please direct me to where I can read the law that allows these without cause (No sarcasm intended, I really want to know!) If they were conducting a check for the purposes of gathering information relative to a crime then it isn't a stop. A pretext stop is done when it is believed (founded suspicion) that a crime is, or is about to be, committed. It doesn't necessarily have to be a specific person but can be a set of circumstances such as vehicle type, operators description, etc. If it were relegated to a known person who committed a crime it would be a straight up arrest. |
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My only real point of contention is that the OP stated he was just driving down the road following all pertinent rules of the rode. He is then stopped by two NYSP officers, and they decided that they need to run his info. On what grounds? Because they can? Because the feel like it? There was a burglary the night before... what does that have to do with the OP? Its just something that pisses me off to know end. It's a big deal and it's amusing what people are willing to give up in exchange for perceived security or safety. It wasn't too long ago the technology didn't even exist to run plates so likely a trooper might have just stopped a driver, told them what happened and went off instinct about the person they were talking to. Now we've come to accept they have a computer in every car that supplies all kinds of personal details about a person and nobody seems to have a problem with it because, as already mentioned, if your doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear, right? In the not too distant future, the discussion is going to be over instant DNA analysis. Pull up to a roadblock and you'll be putting your finger on a sensor linking to a national DNA database able to track your entire life. Right, tin foil hat time, paranoia, black helicopters, George Orwell fiction... nothing like this will ever happen except in the mind of a crazy person. Kind of like the same way oppressive, anti-constitutional gun laws aren't passed in the middle of the night to great support and enthusiasm by the majority of people (yeah, most people in NY think SAFE is fine) or the same way people will gleefully welcomed Patriot Acts and Obamacare, all things that at their heart are about taking individual rights and liberties, not strengthening them. Anyway, back to the first post, what if they ran the plate and found out the driver had been arrested 25 years ago, maybe while in college, for shoplifting or other small offense that might relate to a burglary, what happens then? He's suddenly a person of interest and taken for questioning? He get's put on some list to be watched closer? What happens? Better not have an unregistered assault weapon at home when they come with the search warrant. |
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doesn't a pretext stop have to be based on the pretext that the individual has committed or plans to commit a crime? As far as everything I have ever read or been told about these types of stops s the the officer MUST have reason to believe that there person has or plans to act in an unlawful matter. If i'm wrong about this please direct me to where I can read the law that allows these without cause (No sarcasm intended, I really want to know!) NO A "pretext stop" is where you are pulled over for an alleged minor violation, like failing to signal a lane change or a broken tail light. A lawyer would argue that the "violation" was nothing more than a PRETEXT to pull you over to get a "free" search or license check. In other words, there may or may not have been a real violation, but the alleged violation is the pretext to pull you over to investigate you. You were not really stopped for the alleged traffic infraction, that is the EXCUSE to pull you over. |
You guys need to drive a commercial vehicle. It is normal operating procedure to stop and talk with local LEO'S every day. I am no supporter of this kind of thing but, you can have my license all you want. Any time a LEO waves his arm I have no problem stopping and talking with them. The whole "nothing to hide" has a lot to do with it. We are already indexed and surveilled 24/7 everywhere we go. Your plates are ran instantly as you drive by the cameras mounted on police cars. Let it go ask them how there day is, and wish them luck.  |
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If they were conducting a check for the purposes of gathering information relative to a crime then it isn't a stop. A pretext stop is done when it is believed (founded suspicion) that a crime is, or is about to be, committed. It doesn't necessarily have to be a specific person but can be a set of circumstances such as vehicle type, operators description, etc. If it were relegated to a known person who committed a crime it would be a straight up arrest. This. The other poster is confusing a traffic stop with a checkpoint. Quoted:
You guys need to drive a commercial vehicle. It is normal operating procedure to stop and talk with local LEO'S every day. I am no supporter of this kind of thing but, you can have my license all you want. Any time a LEO waves his arm I have no problem stopping and talking with them. The whole "nothing to hide" has a lot to do with it. We are already indexed and surveilled 24/7 everywhere we go. Your plates are ran instantly as you drive by the cameras mounted on police cars. Let it go ask them how there day is, and wish them luck. You commercial guys operate under a different set of rules. The plate reader doesn't run your plate. It compares the characters to a downloaded list of stolen/ suspended plates in the hard drive |
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The plate reader doesn't run your plate. It compares the characters to a downloaded list of stolen/ suspended plates in the hard drive This You guys just blew my mind. You'll have to explain why it blew your mind My minds a bit fried right now after having had to spend the last 7 hours dealing with a pimp and a bunch of his hookers. Maybe my sarcasm meter is out of calibration as a result |
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You'll have to explain why it blew your mind
My minds a bit fried right now after having had to spend the last 7 hours dealing with a pimp and a bunch of his hookers. Maybe my sarcasm meter is out of calibration as a result You the man, I could never last 7 minutes ETA I hope this made you laugh |